Regarding Refinement Aid and Charms in the Event Gold Shop

The post above is right.

Please let your PM know this is not a very good idea and will have the opposite effect of what they're asking for... and everyone who plays actively knows it. The last thing we need is another "Mirages for TW pay even though the players are telling you why it won't work" fiasco.

What needs to be done to help the in-game economy is the introduction of attractive coin sinks. Give people something worth spending their coins on, other than competing for the limited amount of gold on the gold market (which removes very little coin per transaction.) I've said it before, put tokens of luck for sale at an NPC, for say 15-20k per token. People want tokens for all the things you can make from them, so this is an attractive coin sink; it puts a ceiling on token prices (one of the pillars of the current economy); and once the token market stabilizes from the change, it still allows token merchants a profit margin.

Removal of the event charms, if anything, hurts the economy further, by increasing demand for gold, and doesn't affect the coin side of the ledger at all.

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y445/gifs4pwi/mfwcharms_zps567b33de.gif?t=1402711361
TBH I'm still trying to understand how this could accomplish anything but the opposite from it's desired effect.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What needs to be done to help the in-game economy is the introduction of attractive coin sinks. Give people something worth spending their coins on, other than competing for the limited amount of gold on the gold market (which removes very little coin per transaction.) I've said it before, put tokens of luck for sale at an NPC, for say 15-20k per token. People want tokens for all the things you can make from them, so this is an attractive coin sink; it puts a ceiling on token prices (one of the pillars of the current economy); and once the token market stabilizes from the change, it still allows token merchants a profit margin.

Removal of the event charms, if anything, hurts the economy further, by increasing demand for gold, and doesn't affect the coin side of the ledger at all.

The problem with a token npc is that unless the price matches the current price that people can buy them for, anyone who's invested in them loses that money instantly. I'd love a token shop, it'd make life much more convenient, but something like that couldn't simply be put in.

There's only a handful of things players actually need. Refines, shards, and pots. The issue with that 2/3 of these are items mostly only obtainable from the boutique (Dragon Orbs and shards from packs). Perhaps an npc or set of npcs that sells refine aids or high level shards for a high cost would be appropriate, it'd offer a way for people to more easily access refines without needing to find other players to buy them from. It does the same for high end shards. This reduces dependency on the boutique as well as offers a coin sink, rather than letting the money just change hands. Though after the +10 orb incident.. refines may not be the greatest coin sink.

Shards have a huge coin sink potential. At least, to me it seems like they would. They're something every player needs, and having one would force merchants and players alike to match the shop price or sell for cheaper, meaning less money is changing hands, or just buy from the shop itself, meaning the money is gone from the server.

Perhaps an NPC that allows you to trade SoW + Coins for NW recast stuff? The amount of coins would obviously be large, and would vary depending on the item, but this would allow people to stop being so dependent on pack items. Rather than having to buy gold and buy packs they could simply take their hard earned coins and SoW and craft their NW recast without the need for an item. This introduces a MASSIVE gold sink into the game, given the cost that would be required, as well as most likely having an impact on current token markets. The main reason people buy packs is to test their luck at getting a high value item. With this, those items would instantly devalue to match the cost of making their NW recast counterparts.

This could have potentially negative results when it comes to the token market, if packs become less attractive of an option then tokens may rise as less people have them to sell and the demand won't go away, but perhaps a special quest could be implemented that would reward a small amount of tokens or certain token items per try with a daily limit of 1-3 attempts. This would introduce another method of getting tokens, which would gradually allow for lower and lower token prices as people wouldn't need tokens from shops quite as much as they can get them from playing the game. I'm not exactly an advocate for MORE dailies, but eh. Also, it could have 5-10 different possible quests that are randomly given to you when you talk to the npc, in order to prevent someone from abusing the quest and being able to log multiple alts to collect a large amount of tokens or items at once.


Fixing our economy would be extremely tricky, but I imagine all suggestions are welcome and can only help someone think of something to do about it.

C'mon people. Someone think of something good. b:cute

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sontzu wrote: »

No-one 'invests' in tokens, they are a by-product of opening packs. I suppose some are bought by dealers from people who aren't smart enough to know they are better off using them to make things instead of selling them, but I doubt putting an npc with fixed prices in there would do much damage to any of the dealers, as they are very rich merchanters, and the losses likely would be quite small, and would be a one-off while the economy adjusted to the new coin value

Tokens offer useful items. People buy tokens. Due to the amount of people who use the items tokens give, the opportunity to merchant them arises. There are at least 6 Token merchants on Archosaur, I imagine other servers have them as well. Regardless of the population of people who merchant tokens, dropping the price right away manually rather than implementing something that would cause it to drop gradually would incite a negative response. Imagine buying a Love: Up and Down for 1b then having it become available in the boutique the very next day for 500m. It wouldn't be a very pleasant experience.



They could certainly make high level shards more accessible, and quite easily; by allowing them to be made using lower level ones. Would only need a small change to the Jewelcraftsman npc I think. Since Merchant npcs sell low level shards that can be combined at the Jcman, seems logical to sell lvl 1 orbs there too, and I think it would be an enormous coin sink, since the majority of players that did not abuse the +10 orb glitch will use the opportunity to catch up somewhat

It's true, people are always needing +10 orbs, but it isn't too often you see people going for them. Either way, it'd be nice to have the option to purchase them in game. Of course, that option could never happen since +10 orbs are one if their biggest sellers. Perhaps the option to buy gems or alter how many gems it takes to make higher level gems could be implemented though.


Seriously? I don't know any big merchants personally, but everyone I know that buys packs, whether with gold or coins, doesn't buy them for tokens. They do it for the chance to get a mount/flyer/dod/ptobl/etc. Simple economics suggests that if you lower token prices, demand will rise; pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap.
If the pwe management had a single brain cell between them they would do that with charms also. Normal pricing of items in the 'real world' is based on the cost of manufacture and distribution; can someone please explain the overheads for the creation of hp/mp charms that makes it necessary for pwe to charge US$6 each? This would seem to me to be a rather unnecessary mark up %, resulting in heavily throttled sales. Make the normal price US$2-3, and have regular sales at US$1-1.5, and they will sell so many they'll be able to drive around in gold-plated Rolls Royce phantoms with Hollywood starlets as chauffeurs.

I wasn't referring to them buying tokens. From the context you should be able to conclude that I meant if items that require pack items are made available in such a way that they don't require the pack items, that the demand for pack items would go down. If that goes down, prices go down. If prices go down, the desire to get packs goes down. I wasn't taking tokens into consideration at all.




If that is an exhortation to the pwe management, I fear your words will fall upon deaf and/or stupid ears


Well of course they do, this is PWE we're talking about.

Silly PWE.

rieihdius wrote: »

After reading the last 2 or 3 pages of this, I'm really starting to think that the people at PWI are trying to kill their own game --



As a final reflection: you guys at pwi launched some spent rewards promo.... spent x amount of gold and get event gold card, my question is: for what do i need event gold if there is nothing worth to get anymore?

Amen to the last staement

BTW all East coast servers died 1/2 hour ago

My money says we barely get an I'm sorry forwhat now seems to be a semi regular event to take the east coast servers down

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

The problem with a token npc is that unless the price matches the current price that people can buy them for, anyone who's invested in them loses that money instantly. I'd love a token shop, it'd make life much more convenient, but something like that couldn't simply be put in.

There's only a handful of things players actually need. Refines, shards, and pots. The issue with that 2/3 of these are items mostly only obtainable from the boutique (Dragon Orbs and shards from packs). Perhaps an npc or set of npcs that sells refine aids or high level shards for a high cost would be appropriate, it'd offer a way for people to more easily access refines without needing to find other players to buy them from. It does the same for high end shards. This reduces dependency on the boutique as well as offers a coin sink, rather than letting the money just change hands. Though after the +10 orb incident.. refines may not be the greatest coin sink.

Shards have a huge coin sink potential. At least, to me it seems like they would. They're something every player needs, and having one would force merchants and players alike to match the shop price or sell for cheaper, meaning less money is changing hands, or just buy from the shop itself, meaning the money is gone from the server.

Perhaps an NPC that allows you to trade SoW + Coins for NW recast stuff? The amount of coins would obviously be large, and would vary depending on the item, but this would allow people to stop being so dependent on pack items. Rather than having to buy gold and buy packs they could simply take their hard earned coins and SoW and craft their NW recast without the need for an item. This introduces a MASSIVE gold sink into the game, given the cost that would be required, as well as most likely having an impact on current token markets. The main reason people buy packs is to test their luck at getting a high value item. With this, those items would instantly devalue to match the cost of making their NW recast counterparts.

This could have potentially negative results when it comes to the token market, if packs become less attractive of an option then tokens may rise as less people have them to sell and the demand won't go away, but perhaps a special quest could be implemented that would reward a small amount of tokens or certain token items per try with a daily limit of 1-3 attempts. This would introduce another method of getting tokens, which would gradually allow for lower and lower token prices as people wouldn't need tokens from shops quite as much as they can get them from playing the game. I'm not exactly an advocate for MORE dailies, but eh. Also, it could have 5-10 different possible quests that are randomly given to you when you talk to the npc, in order to prevent someone from abusing the quest and being able to log multiple alts to collect a large amount of tokens or items at once.


Fixing our economy would be extremely tricky, but I imagine all suggestions are welcome and can only help someone think of something to do about it.

C'mon people. Someone think of something good. b:cute

I thought high lvl shards would be good too. We all need them and they just aren't plentiful. But if PWI did that and npc tokens, what would people open packs for? Price of packs puts you at a loss for most thing that drop from them. Packs are still pretty important to PWE's income.

Whatever you come up with will have to not **** with that. Sales are already getting more and more greedy.

Maybe put in a shard transfer at high cost? 80m-100m to transfer each?

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

That's the problem honestly. Almost any suggestion that could actually give a good coin sink, one that's actually attractive to players and would cause them to drop coins on it, would interfere with gold sales. The only thing we need is refines, shards, and gear. Perhaps a dye npc? Dyes aren't really their biggest selling point so it shouldn't affect sales THAT much.

Though I don't think a gem thing would, so long as the price of gems is reasonable from the npc. Gems would sell for roughly what they would from that npc, or a little bit less so as long as they aren't extremely underpriced the gems would remain high enough in value that people would still open packs for a chance at selling them. Not to mention we'd have various other pack exclusive items. I'd really like to see my NW idea, that'd create an intense coin sink in the game, and given the rarity of pack items these days it's one that could actually get a fair amount of use.

gems gems yes lets add those to npc...we have that its in the base and the fees are rediculous

war catas would be the most reasonable npc item we could think of

Just deactivate botting and half of our economy problems are solved. Of course, there are more steps involved, but Botting is the main reason why the economy became worse so fast since New Horizons.

removing silver charms to **** over the player base that fell for all those event gold promotions and dq exchanges..... i mean to "stabilize the economy" caused some resentment in the community. to bad that those measures do not cause "client instabilities" like the +12orb sale back in the day did. such things can be fixed instantly, always. but in this case i fear that we can expect the return of the silver charms at the earliest; right after we get those promised compensations for all those bothced promotions and events (reminds of the great compensation that was the penguin event, which never worked and never got fixed). or the silver charms will be brought back right after we'll geat a replacement for the old dq system, you know "soon".

Want to stabilize the economy? bring the casual gamer back. Without them this game and it's virtual economy is only a few "pushes" from total collapse. Any suggestions or even the rare new idea might help, but without effective communication with the existing community that I believe is impossible. b:cry

Prices on all items have gone crazy. Primeval stones last month were 75 mil each now they are 85 mil. Gold in the AH keeps going up and up. You want prices to stabilize bring back something to replace the DQ items. It makes it where people who don't spend money in this game or a little money to get items. I refuse to spend more that 65 mil for a vit +10 stone. Looks like I am saving up for an Emperor tome atm. b:laugh

sparkiesoft wrote: »

they [silver event charms] were removed to help with the in-game economy

Need new thread for new forum event. b:cute

Title: The meme contest
Event: make the best meme possible with any portion of the original quote from sparkie (page 15)
Prize: You win b:thanks

sparkiesoft wrote: »

The items have always been removed/added through a maintenance. The reason you see them pop-up at times when there is no maintenance, is because they were set to go up sometime during that week, through the maintenance prior. So in other words, yes we need a maintenance to add/remove them.

From what I've been told, they were removed to help with the in-game economy and that they will be put back in once that is more stable. I've already made my PM aware, so when he gives me more information, I'll let you all know.

So are we talking 2020, or when the servers are closed your PM will have the sales department of PWE implement the charms back in for your company to play PWI? That makes no sense. What a load of bollocks. What you have been told is a lie, and what has happened has also been ridiculous.

Back in 2010 one of your co-workers (Xarfox) stated a ludicrous lie like that as well, about how pushing the NPC Jolly Jones would bring the gold down (a coin sink) from 500k back to 100k per. Guess what? Gold went even higher.

PWE has also removed items from the in-game boutique and lied about reasoning to the players.

PWE has also lied about getting the ranking servers back up.

The list goes on and on and on and on. This is nothing new, really. Your company's management of their titles shows no signs of getting better. There is no possible way that removing something that can be obtained most often with hard work, can be good for the in-game economy. Gold will only rise higher, really. You will loose players who refuse to drop $10 a week or more just to be able to play the game with a charm. Grats? Is there some magical method of obtaining more and/or equal profit with less players and/or a server that has been shut down or merged with another server?