Sins more broken than ever before?

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Using focused in PvP is just absolutely idiotic outside of +3 refines at which point you dont really matter to the enemy anyways.

Its completely idiotic yes, fighting a caster that can completely oneshot you with perfect accuracy and not only surviving but taking the kill is really idiotic.

EVERY NW i attend at some point what i said before happens, if its not +12 jaded, with focused i have a chance, i dont have to run away at being out geared. tidal will not protect you from a squad raining down on you when you get a random lag spike and ig doesnt cast fast enough, tidal wont save you when a mystic drops an absorb soul on ya when youre ig'd, at least in my experience tidal wont save ya from the barbs knockdown, etc etc.

You should use it more, maybe not if youre demon (which if i remember correctly you are, but i could be wrong), i only started respecting it once i saged it.

In my honest opinion focused is the overpowered one of the two, if you dont believe it too bad, works amazingly for me, you can call me an idiot, but im stupidly happy with it b:victory

Toraah - Archosaur wrote: »

Neither will focused. Assuming the squad isn't TT90.

i TW against ya almost weekly, unless my squad is sent to defend a lane from you and your band of merry archers (which hurt A LOT b:surrender ) it works quite a lot, going in suicide subsea runs and walking out with a tail of 1s and a kill or two is pretty cool, im not saying it always works, but sure beats the hell outta dying, which would be a certainty if i did it on tidal. b:chuckle

i play a seeker on DW server, and the thing i fear the most to meet is a full r9rr sin, i mean 75% of all my phy skills miss, my metal skill do hit for like 3k, but now that sin have 20k+ hp.... dont really do much and with Deaden Nerves and tidal

sin are the class that can kill me the fastest right now and i have 29k P.def as base and like 44k buffed

Ms_Sinister - Archosaur wrote: »

Dont you have primal skills too?
Last i check i fought a cleric with new cyclone and she jsut constantly ripped me with no cooldown
THATS OP AS **** DAMN IT if i had a skill like that constnatly that WONT miss due to evasion and shiit i think id be satisfied?
learn ur class please enouf QQ

you should know better, if you cc a cleric effectively with silence and elimination, then there isn't much you can do. the chi building skills for a sin allow for and effective cc on most classes.

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

you are so lost with this point? no crit no zerk? friggin impossible with crit rates of 100% no being possible. purify is no where nerf as powerful as tidal but hey take away the one thing that would help a cleric stop being stun locked.

Purify is the only thing stopping a cleric from being stun locked? LOL b:chuckle

Ever heard of a genie? Did you know they have skills you can use?
Skills like Faith or Badge of Courage or Fortify?

Ever hear of apoth?
Vacuity Powders / Shadowbinders...

b:victory

EIayne - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the point is, a lot of your arguments are based on assuming the sin has AMAAAZING gear, and OP daggers, vs. an averagely geared group of 5-7 people. Lets be honest here; ANY class with that much advantage could do as well. And, in reality only a small percentage of sins have gear like that. When you take that and extrapolate it into even gear, lets say, +7 armor, +10 weapons, it's a lot less to do with either classes "brokenness" and more to do with who knows their class better, vs lag. for myself, I'm glad sins have gotten something that might pump some life back into a class that once was filled with mindless twitchers, and then seemed to go nearly extinct in the NW movement days.

I myself don't play a sin anymore, but here's to hoping for an improvement overall in sins general performance in game.

The problem with your counter argument is that you are basing it off of cases where you or other people outgear the sins they encounter, but even an outgeared assassin has the tools to pull off pretty imbalanced kill on someone who outgears and out plays them.

The fact that many assassins are too stupid to play properly doesn't take away from the fact that the class is imbalanced. A class's potential should never be judged by it's idiots.

The cards are simply stacked in their favor, it has been that way since they were released. Post-NW update was legitimately the only time the assassin class has ever had to struggle...or has ever been challenged in pretty much any aspect of the game. They had a long reign of domination over almost all areas of the game in which the only answer any other DD class had to them was, "well at least I can TW". Realistically, if the sin class suffered years of being completely outshined by everyone else in every way(which, has never actually happened for them), then it would still be fair, considering what most other classes had to endure before the devs realized they should have pulled out before giving birth to these abominations...figuratively speaking.

It should be assumed in any PvP-related argument that all classes being compared are equally geared/skilled.

In any case,these new skills do not require any performance improvement whatsoever. It almost might as well be aps all over again. It does not take any skill or enhanced ability to use a no cost 5 in 1 spammable kill skill. Neither does it take any skill to use broken buffs.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

The problem with your counter argument is that you are basing it off of cases where you or other people outgear the sins they encounter, but even an outgeared assassin has the tools to pull off pretty imbalanced kill on someone who outgears and out plays them.

The fact that many assassins are too stupid to play properly doesn't take away from the fact that the class is imbalanced. A class's potential should never be judged by it's idiots.

The cards are simply stacked in their favor, it has been that way since they were released. Post-NW update was legitimately the only time the assassin class has ever had to struggle...or has ever been challenged in pretty much any aspect of the game. They had a long reign of domination over almost all areas of the game in which the only answer any other DD class had to them was, "well at least I can TW". Realistically, if the sin class suffered years of being completely outshined by everyone else in every way(which, has never actually happened for them), then it would still be fair, considering what most other classes had to endure before the devs realized they should have pulled out before giving birth to these abominations...figuratively speaking.

It should be assumed in any PvP-related argument that all classes being compared are equally geared/skilled.

In any case,these new skills do not require any performance improvement whatsoever. It almost might as well be aps all over again. It does not take any skill or enhanced ability to use a no cost 5 in 1 spammable kill skill. Neither does it take any skill to use broken buffs.

This is ironic because most of the archers QQing on their forums are in fact idiots, yet people (other archer mains especially) seem to agree with them pretty often.

Tell me how archers are more challenging to play than a sin. Tell me how barbs are more challanging to play than a sin, or even seekers. You can't, because I play all 3 of those classes on a regular basis and any idiot can be a decent player in this game, to be a good sin you have the be anything but an idiot. Even with the herp-derp aps, they do have some kind of thought process, because well, they out smarted you didn't they? Sins didn't rule the game, aps did. Simple semantics really.

Lol at people saying this is a qq thread.

Sins have always been good at 1v1s. I think it's fair if they really are the best at them and I agree with you Longknife - I couldn't care less about 1v1s.

But at end game if a non ranged class is out performing those that have that range advantage in group pvp events and such - the devs were clearly smoking some good ****.
It's not just that they avoid all form of cc or debuff possible while that damn tidal is up, you can't even get rid of it?
Now add cards and passives and you got a zerking crit based class with balanced defences bich slapping other end game classes.

The way I like to think about it is - if you could cash your account in for how much it was worth if you cash shopped everything and were able to spend it on one single class, there would be like 4 classes on the game dominting because everyone would just pick the classes you can get the most out of.

A sin is just one class. It's not even the newest one, and if this is the gap between this class and others, think about how much thought into the overall balance of classes has been put in!

Probably next to nothing.

I mean I don't know about you but you would have thought that a simple brainstorm or bullet point list of what balance should entail no?

A class that's best at 1v1 should be worst in group
A class best in group should be worst in 1v1
I personally feel that no buffs should be unpurgable... Or at least - no active buffs. Passives like primal or untamed forms I think is alright. Things with a long cool down like sor and Sos should just have a shorter cool down.
Tankiest classes should be less threatening. I could have said less damage here but let's be honest - you guys won't have any fun not being able to kill anything. But it makes sense that barbs should be lower priority targets in group pvp.
Classes with heals should only be as tanky as others if they're using heals.
Less tanky targets should be more threatening.
Chi should cost something more than just mana or be available to everyone equally. By this I don't just mean all classes should get inner harmony or sins should have it taken away. What I mean is that classes with chi skills like that should have long cool downs on that skill (like awaken which is not broken before anyone comes in and says it is because lol - inner harmony) but if you're going to give sins a skill like inner harmony they should be a lot more chi dependant. If classes don't have many chi skills then they shouldn't need it as much! Pretty simple but there's examples everywhere where this is not the case.

It seems like the Dev team have just gotten lazy. They should have a look at other games and play them to see how competitors have balanced their mmorpgs before most of this community goes to check those games out for themselves.

PWI is only AVERAGE at best compared to what else is out there guys.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lol at people saying this is a qq thread.

Sins have always been good at 1v1s. I think it's fair if they really are the best at them and I agree with you Longknife - I couldn't care less about 1v1s.

But at end game if a non ranged class is out performing those that have that range advantage in group pvp events and suchWho said this? You are the first to make this claim. Last i checked archers ruled TW. - the devs were clearly smoking some good ****.
It's not just that they have a chance to avoid all form of cc or debuff possible while that damn tidal is up, you can't even get rid of it?
Now add cards and passives and you got a zerking crit based class with balanced defences bich slapping other end game classes sins wear the same armor as archers, and archers have 2x the physical attack of sins, there for my zerk crit=your regular crit....

The way I like to think about it is - if you could cash your account in for how much it was worth if you cash shopped everything and were able to spend it on one single class, there would be like 4 classes on the game dominting because everyone would just pick the classes you can get the most out of which i will kindly piont out seems to be archer, seekers, barbs, and clerics respectively.

A sin is just one class. It's not even the newest one, and if this is the gap between this class and others, think about how much thought into the overall balance of classes has been put in!

Probably next to nothing.

I mean I don't know about you but you would have thought that a simple brainstorm or bullet point list of what balance should entail no?

A class that's best at 1v1 should be worst in groupLike sins and bms
A class best in group should be worst in 1v1Archers and wizards (kinda)
I personally feel that no buffs should be unpurgable... Or at least - no active buffs. Passives like primal or untamed forms I think is alright. Things with a long cool down like sor and Sos should just have a shorter cool down SoR and SoS have a 30 sec cd, but their duration is also 30 secs. Tidal has a 60 sec duration and a 90 sec cd. Neither can be purged, and ours has no effect on other players while SoR and SoS does. How can you even begin to compare the two?.
Tankiest classes should be less threatening. I could have said less damage here but let's be honest - you guys won't have any fun not being able to kill anything. But it makes sense that barbs should be lower priority targets in group pvp If you are stupid enough to let a bad go around unchecked, i don't even....
Classes with heals should only be as tanky as others if they're using heals. Plumeshell, GG.
Less tanky targets should be more threatening. Like sins and archers right?
Chi should cost something more than just mana or be available to everyone equally. By this I don't just mean all classes should get inner harmony or sins should have it taken away. What I mean is that classes with chi skills like that should have long cool downs on that skill (like awaken which is not broken before anyone comes in and says it is because lol - inner harmony) but if you're going to give sins a skill like inner harmony they should be a lot more chi dependant. If classes don't have many chi skills then they shouldn't need it as much! Pretty simple but there's examples everywhere where this is not the case.

It seems like the Dev team have just gotten lazy. They should have a look at other games and play them to see how competitors have balanced their mmorpgs before most of this community goes to check those games out for themselves.

PWI is only AVERAGE at best compared to what else is out there guys.

You obviously have not played a sin to a good extent. We are only of the most chi dependant classes in the game. If I want to CC an opponent, 80% of the time I have to expend some sort of chi.


-100 throat cut
-200 cursed jail/headhunt
-200 subsea
-35 deep sting

---

-535 chi

+50 tackling slash
+150 rising dragon
+200 inner harmony

---

+400 chi

the most common spells used in a lock rotation is a net chi gain of=-135 chi (this is for all sins, culti not taken into account)

You make me laugh, you funny funny man. GG bro.

Probably played sin longer than you. You're not someone who is ever going to be convinced clearly so let's just agree to disagree.

A sin is not troubled for chi. You're missing shadow escape and master li's technique regardless of whether they are used in a lock rotation or not and haven't taken into account cool downs CONVENIENTLY. If you think they are perhaps you should just try another game. You're obviously terribad at this one considering the fact you genuinely think archers hit twice as hard with exact same gear.

Some of those comments about balance I realise are already true. Thanks for pointing out the obvious to those too stupid enough to work that one out.

I like how your argument is "use ig twice as much" and "since you can't kill the sin why bother".

You're obviously someone who has never played any other class at endgame. I'll let you off - archer is not the top class to be spending your money on. It used to be sure, but since they basically started nerfing purge I'd rather be a mystic, cleric, barb or sin.

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

On behalf of every Psychic and Blademaster in the history of forever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIWHMb3JxmE

Don't forget Wizzies, all of our usefull buffs cost chi+ our escape costs chi + most of the ways we kill people involves having 2 sparks