Sins more broken than ever before?

Eoria - Harshlands

Outside of nerfing the duration/% chance to block on tidal, they can always just amend some status effects on certain skills to always bypass tidal. Paralyze, soulburn, and mystic knockback among others would be my main choices for this, tbh.

kacprowiczkacper

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Outside of nerfing the duration/% chance to block on tidal, they can always just amend some status effects on certain skills to always bypass tidal. Paralyze, soulburn, and mystic knockback among others would be my main choices for this, tbh.

Or this ^

XXHotXx - Morai

yess... or open tidal to damage debuffs... but that **** cant really passively prevent everything ._. really devs must have blindfolds

its **** that the new paralyze that should and counters anti stuns, its avoided by the class that in first place needs such an heavy counter

Socqar - Lost City

Longknife: Archer happens to cast WoG as he's attacked with it, full retreats. <--- YAY! That one is me xD At some point of the video I was hitting Rinc between 800 and 1600 with my +12 Firmament Bow and full A cards... and he hit me back with one of Life Hunter's hits for 7k... (full r9rr +8, not that bad I guess...) and I happened to be fast enough to WoG and RUN

That's about all we can do as you've seen in this video... YOu can check as well mooooooo hits on Rinc... Just for the record, mooooo is full +12 josd nw S-set 80/80 Wizard... and still can't fight back on Rinc, plain sad

Plus must add, he has a crapload of skill when it comes to pvp

trands wrote: »

Try it too then, you'll get more kills and die less then when you stay QQ'ing like you've been doing for ages b:laugh Some classes got nerfed, but cleric has become way more powerful since Morai came out. If you feel like a "David" vs every class, that's not cleric related.

If you really want to compare, look at how it was before New Horizons. I don't know the gear of the players seen in the vid, but how many of the kills would have been 1shot from any DD with same gear as the shown sin?

That video has the 2 top factions of the server, with like 30+ josd +12 players fighting on it, and the rest... just average **** gear like me, r9rr +8 on +12 wep... I mean, crappy right? one-shots U.U You could ask before you speak though, there's a lot of LC people around that can tell you about thei gears before you make wrong asumptions

Nudimmud - Lost City wrote: »

KindaBusy is full +12 full NW gear, r9 third cast, with JoSD and a very impressive card set. KB is easily one of the top 5 gear wise psychics on the server, if not the top one.

Anyone else you would like to know the gear of from LC?

Edit: Just for reference, to that video, I'd say 85%+ of the people in there are r9 third cast and above geared, if not 95%, and after rewatching it Rinc doesn't target any of the ones that may be questionable.

^Just this, he's **** our top players with one skill not even sparking... hitting 16k crit on last Life Hunter hit on a full +12 josd nw archer... I mean, WTF?! (ReckUrWorld, you can check one of the multiple times he **** him in 1 shot)

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

EDIT: I've taken a good look at the video, and watched it about 5 times now. This person seems, SEEMS, to heavily out gear his opponents. If you lack sufficient attack levels while hitting a jaded opponent you will do **** for damage. This is is no different for any class, but sins do not lack attack levels, they lack physical attack, which is why some of use spark so much. I used to hit jaded AA toons for like 700 regular (no zerk or crit), now i hit them for like 1.7k (no zerk or crit), because I added 40+ attack levels to my sin. I can't speak for the people in this video, but this seems to be the case, and if a sin out gears you, it's hard to rely on damage **** to stop them. Even more apparent is he focused unbuffed/slightly buffed targets.

You should just read posts above yours, he doesn't outgear like 20+ of the people he faceroll kills, and the rest of us is around r9rr+8 as said before, no other class can **** me like that even with best gear out there...

PS: moooo can crit me 250k on fire-combo... quite impresive... BUT we can counter that, plus it's a hard combo, plus need genie, plus we cna just use anti-fire genie, immune in between combo and so on... we can't do that to those new sin skills and hell, they can spam it U.U

trands

Socqar - Lost City wrote: »

That video has the 2 top factions of the server, with like 30+ josd +12 players fighting on it, and the rest... just average **** gear like me, r9rr +8 on +12 wep... I mean, crappy right? one-shots U.U You could ask before you speak though, there's a lot of LC people around that can tell you about thei gears before you make wrong asumptions

Considering you even quoted me :

trands wrote: »

If you really want to compare, look at how it was before New Horizons. I don't know the gear of the players seen in the vid, but how many of the kills would have been 1shot from any DD with same gear as the shown sin?

What part made you confused between an assumption and a question?

Was it the question mark or the "I don't know" part?

And btw, you're late :

trands wrote: »

Seems Longknife's 72% was pretty accurate then.

I guess I'm lucky or never to get targeted by sins b:laugh Or Morai archers are better then the sins.

b:laugh Now I know why archers claim to be weak, they need glasses b:bye

Socqar - Lost City

trands wrote: »

Considering you even quoted me :



What part made you confused between an assumption and a question?

Was it the question mark or the "I don't know" part?

And btw, you're late :



b:laugh Now I know why archers claim to be weak, they need glasses b:bye

Wasn't shaming for a reason, just pointing out the fact you should ask before you assume, not make an assumption and add a question to it as it can lead to missunderstanding, considering people does read this diagonal

Longknife - Harshlands

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Outside of nerfing the duration/% chance to block on tidal, they can always just amend some status effects on certain skills to always bypass tidal. Paralyze, soulburn, and mystic knockback among others would be my main choices for this, tbh.

To be honest I doubt if that would work either. Say things like Undine Strike, Psy DoTs, Mystic debuff from their basic spell and the like are allowed through. The sin will purify them on their triple spark.

Best solutions I can come up with:

1) Purge goes through Tidal. Sins will still be able to be effective and kill whatever they want with Elimination, but they'll be the prime purge target and will have to either play their pots, chi management or stealth skills wisely to remain aggressive.

2) Triple spark needs a cooldown

3) Their offense needs to be nerfed in some way (much more complex and difficult to achieve)

That video has the 2 top factions of the server, with like 30+ josd +12 players fighting on it, and the rest... just average **** gear like me, r9rr +8 on +12 wep... I mean, crappy right? one-shots U.U You could ask before you speak though, there's a lot of LC people around that can tell you about thei gears before you make wrong asumptions

Totally off-topic, but Harshlands is emo and always says "dude Lost City would curbstomp us, their entire server is waaaaaay better geared."

But based on those numbers you just provided, Harshlands vs. Lost city is basically the same. We've also got 30-ish JOSD/Deity dudes in the top two factions and of course +8, +12 r9rr is a standard too; that's my gear for example.

Socqar - Lost City

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

To be honest I doubt if that would work either. Say things like Undine Strike, Psy DoTs, Mystic debuff from their basic spell and the like are allowed through. The sin will purify them on their triple spark.

Best solutions I can come up with:

1) Purge goes through Tidal. Sins will still be able to be effective and kill whatever they want with Elimination, but they'll be the prime purge target and will have to either play their pots, chi management or stealth skills wisely to remain aggressive.

2) Triple spark needs a cooldown

3) Their offense needs to be nerfed in some way (much more complex and difficult to achieve)


Totally off-topic, but Harshlands is emo and always says "dude Lost City would curbstomp us, their entire server is waaaaaay better geared."

But based on those numbers you just provided, Harshlands vs. Lost city is basically the same. We've also got 30-ish JOSD/Deity dudes in the top two factions and of course +8, +12 r9rr is a standard too; that's my gear for example.

We both suck then U.U /jk

I just said some fast numbers, but I think it's around that right now... We have like 100+ josd chars that are now afk or left though... Because I'm a pretty new player and weekly I see new people poping in, "hey it's been a while I'm back" *checks gear, full +12 nw josd*

About sins, only way to handle them is for example, an EA squad focusing fire on them, that way you can almost grant a succesful purge in a decent time, which helps giving a "shorT" timespan to crush them... BUT you really need to measure forces, because focusing fire too much time on a target can get half squad dead or CC'ed

Eoria - Harshlands

LC would still destroy us. Lets not beat around the bush. b:surrender

Longknife - Harshlands

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

LC would still destroy us. Lets not beat around the bush. b:surrender

Hey I made a CAREER out of leading a guild into battles where the odds were purposefully stacked against us. WE GOT DIS. b:cool




Anyways, another "fix" would be to perhaps let Seal of God pass through Tidal. Not really a fix but at least diminishes the effect of a sin on a battlefield. Another consideration would be to give a skill like Spirit Phalanx (can't be resisted) a purge attachment or implement a skill similar to it while attaching a purge and giving it to whatever class they think should have it.

Just brainstorming at this point, but I hope we can all agree the amount of resources a singular sin can expend from enemy forces is absolutely ludicrous. Side-note, I also caught Mooooo's damage on Rinc in there. Mountain Seize from an absolute end-game Wizard on a 30k sin that can oneshot basically anyone? 7.7k. (Don't think it stunned him either, lulz)

Eoria - Harshlands

Basically just make stuff that can't be purified bypass tidal.

HESOKA - Raging Tide

So LongKnife, you did not really accept my challenge.

My challenge was to prove the following things:

1) Trash players are not suppose to comment.
2) Trash players are not suppose to complain.
3) Trash players need to gtfo of forum.

Slewdem - Dreamweaver

Thing is with these kind of topics.. People who are playing the classed that's being talked about would never admit to certain things, but would be fast to point out other things on another class that ain't their main class..

At the end of the day it just don't make any sense at all...b:laugh

Cytte - Harshlands

HESOKA - Raging Tide wrote: »

3) Trash players need to gtfo of forum.

Then why are you still here b:cute

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

LC would still destroy us. Lets not beat around the bush. b:surrender

Yup

filipenogueras

Dude this guy LongKnife cries so much
Remember that unlike archers, sins don't have that stupid ranged atack which is twice harder as base damage. (You have "2x damage" 100% of the times with a 6x% chance of "4x damage" with a critical) while sins need a zerk+critical (20% for a zerk, 6x% for a critical, so its something near 14% chance for "4x damage". While archers have ONLY 6x% chance for that "4x damage" lol). And sins have to face in melee. Unlike archers which can stay away from the mass and still can hit with a stupid high damage.

Zanryu - Lothranis

filipenogueras wrote: »

Dude this guy LongKnife cries so much
Remember that unlike archers, sins don't have that stupid ranged atack which is twice harder as base damage. (You have "2x damage" 100% of the times with a 6x% chance of "4x damage" with a critical) while sins need a zerk+critical (20% for a zerk, 6x% for a critical, so its something near 14% chance for "4x damage". While archers have ONLY 6x% chance for that "4x damage" lol). And sins have to face in melee. Unlike archers which can stay away from the mass and still can hit with a stupid high damage.

It's not particularly hard to face melee when you can lock them up and prevent them from damaging you for most of the fight WHILE putting out massive amounts of damage yourself. Sins can force anything but a barb to go pure defensive with very little effort and no cost aside from cooldowns to themselves. Yes, they "use" more chi, but it works out to them expending virtually none due to the sheer amount of chi regeneration they have. When any other class uses a spark, it's gone. When a Sin uses it? There are plenty of options to get it back, allowing them to either maintain a lock or eve spam triple spark in fights. Even before Lifehunter and Elimination they were far from balanced, with these two skills they've moved on to a whole other level of broken.

BMs can stunlock, but they can't put out that kind of damage and it costs insane chi.
Seekers can output some insane damage but they can't stunlock you.

Assassins can now perform both of those tasks better in 1v1 while having passive resistance to debuffs AS WELL as a buff to resist a hit that would kill them. Oh, and in group it's true, they're fairly tanky due to Tidal alone making it hard to lock them down. They can stealth away, lock one of your main DDs, or simply kite. There are plenty of options available to them.

They're a class whose only downside is the fact that Tidal has a 30 second gap and every skill isn't an AoE.

ablabahabla

Socqar - Lost City wrote: »

That video has the 2 top factions of the server, with like 30+ josd +12 players fighting on it, and the rest... just average **** gear like me, r9rr +8 on +12 wep... I mean, crappy right? one-shots U.U You could ask before you speak though, there's a lot of LC people around that can tell you about thei gears before you make wrong asumptions

IJS the standart gear on LC is more like r9rr +10 with +12 wep and theres a **** load of those +10 with at least full vit stone sharded gears and since the orb fiasco even the alts of 90% of the server are full +10. I mean just look at all those +10 armor +12 wep nv3 troll alts lol

hiyoga789

Lol just lol.This is so funny (blah blah blah let seal of god go through tidal and **** **** ****)dude why don't you just get something better to do rather then QQ 24/7 abt assassins and what kind of faction/squad do you go to tw with that gets wiped out by 1 assassin .Maybe you shd consider not comparing your self to people who out gear you by a huge margin.Stuff you say on here is amazing i hit an assassin 12k crit only(zerk and he was history) and am first rebirth so wtf you QQing abt ?Oh and for your info that assassin is full rrr9 pretty decent refines too.Maybe you shd stop going to tw/nw with a g16 squad and expect to survive a raid from a +12 full rrr9 assassin geez.I have seen full rrr9 assassins in nation wars they are pretty easy to kill considering your not a ''noob'' ,you keep bringing up the fact that tidal is so strong... remember it doesn't make you immune to damage ,you will have a problem with it if your hitting the assassin for crappy damage and depend on stuns or debuffs to kill him . Geez people these days..

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide

Hello ,I'm sure PWI China does know what they are doing , and I see everything balanced .... And I'll never imagine some small experienced ppl like players to be able to teach the game experts how to balance and make classes .I do agree players are the ones who test the skill everyday and experienced how it work vs every class .. But it doesn't mean they did not test every skill on every class and knew how good or bad it is .

I've seen a psy tanking 3 ppl r9rr self buffed and running around with purify proc and white voodoo and he's not even full JoSD --> I don't QQ or whine how broken they are .

I've seen Archer Josd S cards +12 nw gear , running around in pk for over 2min followed by atleast 4 r9rr ppl --> and I don't QQ or whine how broken they are .

I've seen a cleric r9rr+11 josd nw gear S cards , running around in TW kite 3 r9rr +12 ppl and did not die for over 2min .


Maybe u need to understand that every class have their advantage ways and amazing skills .

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide

hiyoga789 wrote: »

Lol just lol.This is so funny (blah blah blah let seal of god go through tidal and **** **** ****)dude why don't you just get something better to do rather then QQ 24/7 abt assassins and what kind of faction/squad do you go to tw with that gets wiped out by 1 assassin .Maybe you shd consider not comparing your self to people who out gear you by a huge margin.Stuff you say on here is amazing i hit an assassin 12k crit only(zerk and he was history) and am first rebirth so wtf you QQing abt ?Oh and for your info that assassin is full rrr9 pretty decent refines too.Maybe you shd stop going to tw/nw with a g16 squad and expect to survive a raid from a +12 full rrr9 assassin geez.I have seen full rrr9 assassins in nation wars they are pretty easy to kill considering your not a ''noob'' ,you keep bringing up the fact that tidal is so strong... remember it doesn't make you immune to damage ,you will have a problem with it if your hitting the assassin for crappy damage and depend on stuns or debuffs to kill him . Geez people these days..

+1 I agree on every word u said .

odieuxconnard

hiyoga789 wrote: »

Lol just lol.This is so funny (blah blah blah let seal of god go through tidal and **** **** ****)dude why don't you just get something better to do rather then QQ 24/7 abt assassins and what kind of faction/squad do you go to tw with that gets wiped out by 1 assassin .Maybe you shd consider not comparing your self to people who out gear you by a huge margin.Stuff you say on here is amazing i hit an assassin 12k crit only(zerk and he was history) and am first rebirth so wtf you QQing abt ?Oh and for your info that assassin is full rrr9 pretty decent refines too.Maybe you shd stop going to tw/nw with a g16 squad and expect to survive a raid from a +12 full rrr9 assassin geez.I have seen full rrr9 assassins in nation wars they are pretty easy to kill considering your not a ''noob'' ,you keep bringing up the fact that tidal is so strong... remember it doesn't make you immune to damage ,you will have a problem with it if your hitting the assassin for crappy damage and depend on stuns or debuffs to kill him . Geez people these days..

^ This

So much accurate!! European/American people crie because they were invicible before the update thanks to their gear and never learnt to play their class correctly. Now they die sometimes and they QQ .
Before the update, it was their class which were incredibly OP, now it is sin. Tomorrow it will be blademaster, and they keep QQing everytime.... EDIT: And I keep seeing people QQing because before they could only lose 1/5 of their hp against OP guys and now they used to lose 1/3 against sins. That is their reason of crying. LMFAO

I heard no one is complaining in China. Maybe because they know how playing their char and they just enjoy that new challenge.

b:bye

Thrieya - Lost City

It's inevitable, the dev team's idea of "balance" is to start by giving one class gear/skill upgrades to make it OP as hell, wait 1-2 years, then give another class gear/skill upgrades to make that one even more OP and make the original OP class useless.

Therefore, sins started out OP, got relegated to useless, and now they're OP again. So it's time to dust off those R9 3rd cast +11 sins sitting pretty in your toybox, and roll the excrement out of everyone who doesn't have one, until your casters are OP again. Which, thanks to calculations that I swear I totally did legit on paper instead of randomly halfassing it in my head, should happen sometime around December 2015.

odieuxconnard

Thrieya - Lost City wrote: »

It's inevitable, the dev team's idea of "balance" is to start by giving one class gear/skill upgrades to make it OP as hell, wait 1-2 years, then give another class gear/skill upgrades to make that one even more OP and make the original OP class useless.

Therefore, sins started out OP, got relegated to useless, and now they're OP again. So it's time to dust off those R9 3rd cast +11 sins sitting pretty in your toybox, and roll the excrement out of everyone who doesn't have one, until your casters are OP again. Which, thanks to calculations that I swear I totally did legit on paper instead of randomly halfassing it in my head, should happen sometime around December 2015.

Yeah true!

If people write "perfect world too op" on google, everyone was already mad about every class. On one year it is the class X which was too op and after it was the class Y, and then the class Z which were OP before the year of the class X and were nerfed and now op again.

It is more a QQ cycle that a unbalance issue.

Learn to play before complaining...

Longknife - Harshlands

Anyone else notice I'm constantly getting ad hominem attacks from stone faces with low post counts or sins?

Zanryu - Lothranis

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Anyone else notice I'm constantly getting ad hominem attacks from stone faces with low post counts or sins?

That tends to be how it goes.

The hate is strong, now cultivate their hate. Let it sustain you. Once it grows into a delicious fruit of loathing, feast on it, then spit the seeds of despair at them. They shall perish.

Longknife - Harshlands

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

That tends to be how it goes.

The hate is strong, now cultivate their hate. Let it sustain you. Once it grows into a delicious fruit of loathing, feast on it, then spit the seeds of despair at them. They shall perish.

You should see my hate tree on Harshlands. You can climb it to visit the moon.

Zanryu - Lothranis

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

You should see my hate tree on Harshlands. You can climb it to visit the moon.

Should see mine on Morai. The one I had on Dreamweaver withered and died because I forgot to water it. b:sad

kacprowiczkacper

I think everything was told in that thread, every ideas were pointed out.
Now I think you could close this thread. The last posts are just there to fight each against other and not to give opinions or ideas about the initial subject.

So let's close it.

XXHotXx - Morai

to all the sins here saying that sage tidal+elimination are legit... i will open a suggestion thread asking for wizard new skill FrostlFlame to be a spammable 320% base damage skill with insta channelling+cast time and with cooldown reduced to 15 seconds

Socqar - Lost City

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Hey I made a CAREER out of leading a guild into battles where the odds were purposefully stacked against us. WE GOT DIS. b:cool




Anyways, another "fix" would be to perhaps let Seal of God pass through Tidal. Not really a fix but at least diminishes the effect of a sin on a battlefield. Another consideration would be to give a skill like Spirit Phalanx (can't be resisted) a purge attachment or implement a skill similar to it while attaching a purge and giving it to whatever class they think should have it.

Just brainstorming at this point, but I hope we can all agree the amount of resources a singular sin can expend from enemy forces is absolutely ludicrous. Side-note, I also caught Mooooo's damage on Rinc in there. Mountain Seize from an absolute end-game Wizard on a 30k sin that can oneshot basically anyone? 7.7k. (Don't think it stunned him either, lulz)

mooooo is indeed close to perfect gear, only missing Nuema Set completed to be perfect char... and he would have a hard time killing an equally geared sin that afk'ed for 20 - 30 secs U.U plain sad

ablabahabla wrote: »

IJS the standart gear on LC is more like r9rr +10 with +12 wep and theres a **** load of those +10 with at least full vit stone sharded gears and since the orb fiasco even the alts of 90% of the server are full +10. I mean just look at all those +10 armor +12 wep nv3 troll alts lol

Well actually that's the gear of some, but I wouldn't say average or at least not for non-old players, +10 orbs went ridiculous since they pushed the price, making for the "new" players like me nearly imposible to affod a full +10 set (well, possible, just not worth the cost with so many other things to invest like nw or cards)

But glitch-abusers have indeed ricidulous alts-chars... I mean, wtf one guy runs around with gv3 +12 wep (psychic)... I mean, really? Purify? Hallo? xD Not to mention all those crappy-old r8r old alts, going full +10 by abusing the glitch and never banned for it...