Archers forgotten?
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Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »There is a Faction Base buff that increases rage damage.
Ah, yes, slipped my mind.Current: http://mypers.pw/1.8/#133167
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If your crits is high enough it does give better chances for chain crits, which is pretty much what you need to kill endgame HA/AA these days.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
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CrimsonApa - Lost City wrote: »lol hardcore haters be hatin on archers even tho shts true that ea's got fked over this expan. sins can have a higher crit % than ea's and pvp wise sht isnt fun dealin w/ zc all day long.
Sins only get higher crit for 8 seconds, 45 sec cd. The cd of quickshot is lower and doesn't cost 2 sparks. Also might like to add that archer's have 2x the physical atk of sins and have 35m range. QQ more would ya?b:chuckle And we actually get the same base crit with r9rr and the same gears/culty.0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »If your crits is high enough it does give better chances for chain crits, which is pretty much what you need to kill endgame HA/AA these days.
By the time I'm done leveling 105-105-105 I will have 929 dex, combined with my crit addons and the primal passive I would be sitting at 80% crit base, boosted to 90% with demon skill procs..DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
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DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Sins only get higher crit for 8 seconds, 45 sec cd. The cd of quickshot is lower and doesn't cost 2 sparks. Also might like to add that archer's have 2x the physical atk of sins and have 35m range. QQ more would ya?b:chuckle And we actually get the same base crit with r9rr and the same gears/culty.
oh shut up dreamweaver kid lol. dependin on gear crit % increases as well but i realized i be talkin bout em csed end gear sins. hit pk @ LC play w/ sins, get zc most of the time and half the time tank it. you prob dont know how to use your sin. oh "id like to add" sins get full chi all day continuous 3spark + zc and spamming skills n runnin skills - basic game mechanics, archers be dealin weaker dmg upfront. fair fight so far was me vs josd nw +12 r93rd sin in an air fight. and im just reg r93 +10 cit gear +12 wep +10 nw rings. LC all bout pk n gears so why am i on a thread w/ pve blue names? k bye. farm em mobs tho. ea's still didnt get good this expan.Biitch.0 -
DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »By the time I'm done leveling 105-105-105 I will have 929 dex, combined with my crit addons and the primal passive I would be sitting at 80% crit base, boosted to 90% with demon skill procs..
Makes me wonder how they will scale dex after sins/archers get 100% crit. Maybe they'll add it to rage damage? Or maybe they'll just give a passive that doubles all damage, and reset crit rates to 0% so you can go up again. Or maybe PWI will be dead by the time archers achieve 100% crit rates.
Questions...questions...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Doesn't change the fact GoF is still 26-30% proc rate. Luck basically.CrimsonApa - Lost City wrote: »get zc most of the time and half the time tank it.
Don't make judgements on my ability. You don't know me. Also sins don't get unlimited chi, maybe you should play one.CrimsonApa - Lost City wrote: »you prob dont know how to use your sin. oh "id like to add" sins get full chi all day continuous 3spark + zc and spamming skills n runnin skills .0 -
that why, i didnt take new merge skill from this expansion, only passive skill which will help me a bit on my farming..b:laughNo Pain, No Gain.0
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DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Doesn't change the fact GoF is still 26-30% proc rate. Luck basically.
Don't make judgements on my ability. You don't know me. Also sins don't get unlimited chi, maybe you should play one.
To be fair, from the things I've seen you say, you must be pretty awful
What are you doing on here complaining about your class being weak when:
A. That couldn't be farther from the truth, and much of these new changes that PWI have undergone have been intended to right the wrongs that the sin class created. There was a time when arcane and Archer couldn't even really step foot outside of SZ. The introduction of sins was the biggest killing blow in pwi's open pvp scene. Sins could kill people without even needing stealth, let alone GoF. Itwas so superior in farming that every SINGLE other class was made either to be HF-slave, buff alt, or OBSOLETE.. and in PvP it was the class people started to choose when they just wanted easymode faceroll kills, and don't pretend that isn't why you picked it.
B. This is not even your class subforum. Go away
C. Everything you say just cements further people's suspicion that you are an idiot.0 -
DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Sins only get higher crit for 8 seconds, 45 sec cd. The cd of quickshot is lower and doesn't cost 2 sparks. Also might like to add that archer's have 2x the physical atk of sins and have 35m range. QQ more would ya?b:chuckle And we actually get the same base crit with r9rr and the same gears/culty.
35m range is hardly a point when we can't see you coming, is it? Given that we can't see you coming, we can always get zc'd from stealth and lose that way, so our chances of losing a fight are at least equal to your chance of zerk critting from stealth. Archer damage isn't even remotely comparable. At full r9, +10, with a +12 weapon, i know i can't 1shot anyone with similar gear to my own. I can, however, expect to get 1shot by a sin with that kind of gear.DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Doesn't change the fact GoF is still 26-30% proc rate. Luck basically.
Don't make judgements on my ability. You don't know me. Also sins don't get unlimited chi, maybe you should play one.
We may not know you, but we can pretty much read how stupid you are from what you're saying. It seems fairly obvious to me, that any class that gains 650 chi every minute from chi skills alone (some of which double up as control skills, and i'm not even counting force stealth) has an advantage that, from the point of view of people who play, say, archers, can reasonably be called unlimited chi. When you can triple spark 2 times per minute just for lulz, and i'm likely to get 1shot, and extremely likely to get killed if you zerk crit any triple sparked hit, a 15% zerk crit rate is very high.
And why is nobody even questioning WHY sins get to zerkcrit? Zerk used to be available on axes almost exclusively, to make up for the fact that axe wielders had next to no dex, and so couldn't crit. It wasn't such a huge deal with a 2% chance to zerk and crit simultaneously, especially when they were quite likely to miss, anyway. The mere idea of zerk on a class where a pure dex build is encouraged is ridiculous.
The massive ****up devs had when they made sins is something they've been trying to correct ever since, which is why sins get a reduced bonus from cards, why we have fortification draught, why bosses in new instances are buffed to make aps sins less OP. Please don't come whine at us about how OP archers are because you're so pathetically unskilled you fail to play even the easiest class in the game.0 -
I agree, the devs seem to be trying so hard balancing sins, give them too much and they're OP, nerf them too much and they're useless, kinda defeat the purpose of naming the class Assassin b:chuckle0
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Sint - Harshlands wrote: »35m range is hardly a point when we can't see you coming, is it? Given that we can't see you coming, we can always get zc'd from stealth and lose that way, so our chances of losing a fight are at least equal to your chance of zerk critting from stealth. Archer damage isn't even remotely comparable. At full r9, +10, with a +12 weapon, i know i can't 1shot anyone with similar gear to my own. I can, however, expect to get 1shot by a sin with that kind of gear.
We may not know you, but we can pretty much read how stupid you are from what you're saying. It seems fairly obvious to me, that any class that gains 650 chi every minute from chi skills alone (some of which double up as control skills, and i'm not even counting force stealth) has an advantage that, from the point of view of people who play, say, archers, can reasonably be called unlimited chi. When you can triple spark 2 times per minute just for lulz, and i'm likely to get 1shot, and extremely likely to get killed if you zerk crit any triple sparked hit, a 15% zerk crit rate is very high.
And why is nobody even questioning WHY sins get to zerkcrit? Zerk used to be available on axes almost exclusively, to make up for the fact that axe wielders had next to no dex, and so couldn't crit. It wasn't such a huge deal with a 2% chance to zerk and crit simultaneously, especially when they were quite likely to miss, anyway. The mere idea of zerk on a class where a pure dex build is encouraged is ridiculous.
The massive ****up devs had when they made sins is something they've been trying to correct ever since, which is why sins get a reduced bonus from cards, why we have fortification draught, why bosses in new instances are buffed to make aps sins less OP. Please don't come whine at us about how OP archers are because you're so pathetically unskilled you fail to play even the easiest class in the game.
It's called a counter. Sins are designed to kill squishy classes like archers/psys/etc. Doesn't mean they can't kill tanky chars like barbs/etc, but all the nerfs were designed to push sins towards skill-hit builds. They aren't trying to fix sins...they're trying to fix aps.
Kind of like how archers have a decent advantage vs any arcane simply due to purge proc...
The reason sins get reduced benefit from cards is because dags have an inherently low base attack, which is made up by sparking and zerk crits. Giving them 100% bonus would be a pretty huge boost for a low damage weapon like dags...compare your weapon damage from bows compared to dags, as well as the attk damage you get from refines. They're twice as good.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »It's called a counter. Sins are designed to kill squishy classes like archers/psys/etc. Doesn't mean they can't kill tanky chars like barbs/etc, but all the nerfs were designed to push sins towards skill-hit builds. They aren't trying to fix sins...they're trying to fix aps.
Kind of like how archers have a decent advantage vs any arcane simply due to purge proc...
The reason sins get reduced benefit from cards is because dags have an inherently low base attack, which is made up by sparking and zerk crits. Giving them 100% bonus would be a pretty huge boost for a low damage weapon like dags...compare your weapon damage from bows compared to dags, as well as the attk damage you get from refines. They're twice as good.
Archer purge is not an insurmountable advantage. The possibility of getting 1shot from stealth, however, is. Granted that, in even gears, sins CAN 1shot squishy classes from stealth, you have one class which is guaranteed a win in an easily repliccable scenario. Imo, that's damaging to game balance.
If they were trying to fix aps, they would have done with daggers what they did with other weapons. Lower interval beteen hits means higher secondary to primary stat ratio. The mistake with sins is allowing a pure build to get high aps, and, furthermore, allowing this for a pure dex build, and then compounding it by giving them zerk.0 -
I don't see me hitting endgame robes for half as hard as endgame robes hit each other, and you call archers robe killers lol.
Physical damage sucks too bad endgame. It's no surprise that certain physical classes need purge to kill. Of the 3 common physical purge users, barb and BM are much more likely to survive long enough to purge than an archer.
Sin auto attack also sucks, but the difference between archer and sin is that sins can stack debuffs more often because their genie is more free from not having to use it as much to protect themselves (read: tidal) and also because they have better chi recovery. In addition...higher attack levels from chill and zerk.
The gap between sin OPness and other classes can be said to be getting smaller because of the new skills. I consider most classes on par - especially a good veno if you ever run into one. However new updates for archer still sucks balls comparatively. The new updates for BS stuns also makes archer that much harder to play.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
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Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't see me hitting endgame robes for half as hard as endgame robes hit each other, and you call archers robe killers lol.
Physical damage sucks too bad endgame. It's no surprise that certain physical classes need purge to kill. Of the 3 common physical purge users, barb and BM are much more likely to survive long enough to purge than an archer.
Sin auto attack also sucks, but the difference between archer and sin is that sins can stack debuffs more often because their genie is more free from not having to use it as much to protect themselves (read: tidal) and also because they have better chi recovery. In addition...higher attack levels from chill and zerk.
The gap between sin OPness and other classes can be said to be getting smaller because of the new skills. I consider most classes on par - especially a good veno if you ever run into one. However new updates for archer still sucks balls comparatively. The new updates for BS stuns also makes archer that much harder to play.
That's because the majority of casters shard full p.def gems, and sacrifice a ring slot to p. def also... I've tried hitting fully jaded casters (who generally have equal mdef/pdef), and they take stupidly low amounts of damage.
As a fully jaded mystic myself, I know I can tank a +12 R9rr wizard or psy without a sweat, and I'm not even full +10 yet. I'll die occasionally to a well-timed (or lucky) Blade tempest crit, but that spell is like absorb soul on steroids...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Can extreme endgame archer survive an extreme endgame sin's sneak attack with full deities ? double sparked or even triple sparked.
I often get killed by fully-built-for-damage-sins even before I can react, that's really broken.
If they want to fix aps they should make fortification draught has different cooldown from apoths, just like anti stealth pot does.0 -
_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »To be fair, from the things I've seen you say, you must be pretty awful
What are you doing on here complaining about your class being weak when:
A. That couldn't be farther from the truth, and much of these new changes that PWI have undergone have been intended to right the wrongs that the sin class created. There was a time when arcane and Archer couldn't even really step foot outside of SZ. The introduction of sins was the biggest killing blow in pwi's open pvp scene. Sins could kill people without even needing stealth, let alone GoF. Itwas so superior in farming that every SINGLE other class was made either to be HF-slave, buff alt, or OBSOLETE.. and in PvP it was the class people started to choose when they just wanted easymode faceroll kills, and don't pretend that isn't why you picked it.
B. This is not even your class subforum. Go away
C. Everything you say just cements further people's suspicion that you are an idiot.
Or is that just your assumption of me? I could care less, so save me the petty insults. It's a free forum, I'll speak where ever i please. Not only that, I play pretty much every class except wizard and mystic.
As for archer being so weak, why do you play one? And can you explain why a good amount of archers are endgame compared to that of sins? Obviously your class isn't as weak as you QQ about, so please, hush child.0 -
I play archer for mass
I like archer
People endgame other classes because everyone's sin is a farmer, it seems (judging by the amount of pro aps gear vs endgame sin gear)Channels
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lol seems like it, I have myself a 5 aps sin, hardly plays it and been months since I care about its gear. I usually use it only to get back at someone or just r4pe his charms if my sin can't kill him, or use my archer for sniping my ingame enemies. Using a class with stealth is fun, though facing one using other class without it is annoying.0
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The new seeker skills are actually weaker then before...The only good merged skill we have is Chaos Blade (shatter combo) b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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All this QQ for what seriously most of you archers dont do anything other than triple spark pew pew or quickshot n a stun maybe if you cant purge and kill off of that you use BV since most are demon. the 2 spark skill was used from 2 skills demon archers dont use to make up for the fact sage has a 50% pdef/mdef debuff already and the new one sucks for sage because archers who learned to use more skills than quickshot actually like frost arrow.
feather arma does suck so dont get it I regret it everyday. The new poison isn't that bad if you guys actually use it in pvp fights while locking someone down you will find that extra 3 ticks of dmg does help. Also we can get up to 95% crit rate or close enough im at 92% right now every 10 secs I use my sage quickshot and crit most casters decently geared up to top geared for good dmg even with just pew pew. Against HA opponents you should learn to change your game play up and actually try using those skills you never touch cause rarely will I ever use normal attack on one equally or better geared than me and the skill dmg increase actually does help out alot I went from doing normal crits on say +10 jade HA bm for about 6-7k to 10-14k with just using metal combo and maybe 1 extra debuff. Archers can still dominate most fights in mass pvp the only class I have really been countered hard by is seekers due to their raw damage and random 22k crits out of nowhere.0 -
Archers got screwed over , we can actually miss on arcane classes , while arcanes can just hit us for 100% chance every hit.
Instead of giving us this new crappy skills they shoulda increased our stun/freeze chance (stunning arrow & aimlow ) to 100%. its BS how much both the stuns misses just cuz of the 10%
And then as last archer damage is weak. all classes get Zerk crit /and purify spell which proceeds 24/7 , and all we get is a purge that barely proceeds just like 8%, and because of that we can crit classes for 3ks crit with an +12 bow , what a joke. the time when purge goes off
I vote for arcanes to miss aswell , and archers to have zerk instead of purge ! lol0 -
Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear wrote: »Archers got screwed over , we can actually miss on arcane classes , while arcanes can just hit us for 100% chance every hit.
Instead of giving us this new crappy skills they shoulda increased our stun/freeze chance (stunning arrow & aimlow ) to 100%. its BS how much both the stuns misses just cuz of the 10%
And then as last archer damage is weak. all classes get Zerk crit /and purify spell which proceeds 24/7 , and all we get is a purge that barely proceeds just like 8%, and because of that we can crit classes for 3ks crit with an +12 bow , what a joke. the time when purge goes off
I vote for arcanes to miss aswell , and archers to have zerk instead of purge ! lol
Archer with Zerk and no purge = massive QQ from casters being one-shot by Zerk-crit from EA's even full buffed and JOSD xD
I'd like that too tbh :P0 -
Thehaxshot - Heavens Tear wrote: »Archers got screwed over , we can actually miss on arcane classes , while arcanes can just hit us for 100% chance every hit.
Instead of giving us this new crappy skills they shoulda increased our stun/freeze chance (stunning arrow & aimlow ) to 100%. its BS how much both the stuns misses just cuz of the 10%
And then as last archer damage is weak. all classes get Zerk crit /and purify spell which proceeds 24/7 , and all we get is a purge that barely proceeds just like 8%, and because of that we can crit classes for 3ks crit with an +12 bow , what a joke. the time when purge goes off
I vote for arcanes to miss aswell , and archers to have zerk instead of purge ! lol
Try missing on an arcane on a melee class, then you can QQ.0 -
DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Try missing on an arcane on a melee class, then you can QQ.
Sure thing... as soon as melee classes and arcanes have to suffer an arbitrary penalty that cuts their damage in half for no good reason. b:chuckle
Circular logic is flawed and horrible to use in this sort of scenario, IJS. b:surrender(Insert fancy image here)
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Me as a r9rrr with 21K HP all +11and a firmament +12 with 2x drakeflame stones, 808 dex, attack lvl 140 def lvl 48, find it unbelievebale that a sin can kill me with 1x knive throw rang 35mtr and i cant kill him in 3 shots same distance, then i find that something is wrong.0
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DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Try missing on an arcane on a melee class, then you can QQ.
I rarely ever see an archer or BM miss me, but I regularly get screwed by interrupts. I would say the chance to interrupt a spell is far higher than an archer or melee's chance to miss on an arcane.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »I rarely ever see an archer or BM miss me, but I regularly get screwed by interrupts. I would say the chance to interrupt a spell is far higher than an archer or melee's chance to miss on an arcane.
I've missed several times on barbs, and arcane classes. Sometimes in succession. All classes regardless of their evasion have a 5% chance to miss. I've got 13k Accuracy you wanna tell me why I should be missing 2-3 times in a row in some cases, its bs. Also interrupts affect every class not just arcane. Misses on the other hand only affect the melee classes and archers. Magic never misses.0 -
Sure thing... as soon as melee classes and arcanes have to suffer an arbitrary penalty that cuts their damage in half for no good reason. b:chuckle
Circular logic is flawed and horrible to use in this sort of scenario, IJS. b:surrender
There is a work around for that, but for missing a spell at close range there is not. It's not circular logic Kossy. Melee classes already suffer the penalty of not being able to attack an archer from high range.Sint - Harshlands wrote: »35m range is hardly a point when we can't see you coming, is it? Given that we can't see you coming, we can always get zc'd from stealth and lose that way, so our chances of losing a fight are at least equal to your chance of zerk critting from stealth. Archer damage isn't even remotely comparable. At full r9, +10, with a +12 weapon, i know i can't 1shot anyone with similar gear to my own. I can, however, expect to get 1shot by a sin with that kind of gear.
We may not know you, but we can pretty much read how stupid you are from what you're saying. It seems fairly obvious to me, that any class that gains 650 chi every minute from chi skills alone (some of which double up as control skills, and i'm not even counting force stealth) has an advantage that, from the point of view of people who play, say, archers, can reasonably be called unlimited chi. When you can triple spark 2 times per minute just for lulz, and i'm likely to get 1shot, and extremely likely to get killed if you zerk crit any triple sparked hit, a 15% zerk crit rate is very high.
And why is nobody even questioning WHY sins get to zerkcrit? Zerk used to be available on axes almost exclusively, to make up for the fact that axe wielders had next to no dex, and so couldn't crit. It wasn't such a huge deal with a 2% chance to zerk and crit simultaneously, especially when they were quite likely to miss, anyway. The mere idea of zerk on a class where a pure dex build is encouraged is ridiculous.
The massive ****up devs had when they made sins is something they've been trying to correct ever since, which is why sins get a reduced bonus from cards, why we have fortification draught, why bosses in new instances are buffed to make aps sins less OP. Please don't come whine at us about how OP archers are because you're so pathetically unskilled you fail to play even the easiest class in the game.
Omg you seem so angry.b:laughDo the facts hurt? Insult me more please, I beg of you. Because none of your insults could be further from the truth. Want to talk about chi comparison?
Go play a psychic, then talk to me about chi on an archer.b:laugh0 -
DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »Want to talk about chi comparison?
Go play a psychic, then talk to me about chi on an archer.b:laugh
Sage psy is really easy to keep up chi on (and no one in their right mind goes demon) so I'm trying to figure out what you're trying to say...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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