Problems with the bm class. And unbalance between g16/r9rr

invinciblebub wrote: »

I agree with the original post. Honestly, the BMs that are R9rr + 10 are only trying to hang onto a dying class. It is no secret that BMs were once OP and that PWI had to divide this powerful class into sub classes such as Seeker and Sin. Instead of nerfing BM, they made the newer classes even more powerful. I think a lot of us refuse to accept that BM sucks and continue to play as if they were so great.

There is a tremendous imbalance in terms of gear and not keeping in mind skills. BMs have to have 2 sets of gear (aps & aoe) to stay competitive in this game. The cost of owning 2 sets of gear is a lot regardless of any grade. Essentially, you paying a lot more for a lot less when compared to other classes.

Also, by not including fist/claw in the r9 is an obvious sign that they want to nerf BM. It doesn't make much sense that they say they want to nerf aps but give Sin r9rr dagger with Gof proc while BMs are stuck with g16 fist/claw. And, you have to keep in mind, that sins have 45% crit rate and bloodpaint they out dd BMs on so many levels.

BMs are now medicore at best and probably one of the worst class to play due to high cost.

Toddloveleah - Harshlands wrote: »

@ the post about how bm's got great new morai updates.

Blade Hurl- Great skill, gives the bm more of the support role than anything still since the damage is low and you de-weapon yourself for 3 seconds as well. So if you 1v1 you de-weapon your opponent then you get 3 seconds where they can run until they have their weapon back unless you stun which depends on whether you have a spark or if you a roar fast enough. ugh.

Reel In- Useful but if you have bad soulforce basically worthless if you are using against a higher gear.

Flame Tsunami- Probably the best skill out of the bunch.

Blade Tornado- My personal fav, however the more casters and others see this skill the more they just use holy path to run away or jump in the air to avoid damage -.-. Very deadly if you can get a stun off or someone is just to stupid to run away lol.



The updates to BMs that would make them one of the good classes again wouldn't really be that hard. Marrows that don't drop one side of your defense would make the bm more well rounded. A magical bell buff would be nice and if the class is really supposed to be a support class it would be nice if they had more than one buff [not counting the 10 second budda guard -.-].

If you look at any class you can find a super OP skill and the bm you really cant find that anymore. HF was once that great of a skill but now with all the procs and purifys and **** you cant even use it on someone without it being purged off. Same with stuns those are almost useless now because of the procs so then the ONLY thing a bm really has going for them is another old unless skill.

XCableX - Archosaur wrote: »

yeah on our server it's like 10 or so full r9t3 bms. it's very low.

Toddloveleah - Harshlands wrote: »

Player difficulty - ☆☆☆☆☆

rose1111111 wrote: »

Bm's r just fine, there is only 1 down side, lack of chi. the new update will solve this. And its not that bms r weak, its just that u get focused because there r so many ranged classes. Try 1v1 a bm with even gear, a skilled bm will give u a run for your money.

Viktorian - Archosaur wrote: »

i think this is the main reason u dont see alot of bms. tho i know that other classes will disagree but bms are probably the hardest class to play in pvp.

TBCH the only thing i would change about this skill is the no bp return thing. i mean srsly? WTH GMS!!!

XX_Raider_Xx - Sanctuary wrote: »

i wrote this a couple weeks ago, submitted it to GMs and posted it on another thread and feel it fits this thread

I can just hear the QQing from all that would experience "role - reversal"

Just a few thoughts.....

Aura of Golden Bell would become this

Demon = gains 25 atk/def levels (dependent on which marrow is active) for 30 secs and becomes un-purgable/ un-debuffable for 6 seconds. 10 sec cooldown. 15 chi gain

Sage = gains 300% Mdef/Pdef (dependent on which marrow is active) for 30 secs and becomes unpurgable/ undebuffable for 6 seconds. 10 sec cooldown - 3o chi gain
Honestly, at endgame and r9t3 bm will have 25k-30+ mdef and pdef while mag marrowed. Since we're capped at 90% reduction (about 35k def) then 300% is way overkill since that'd be like 45k pdef/mdef.
Roar of the Pride would become this

Demon = Stuns all in 12 meter range (doesn't miss) reduces 20 atk/ 20 def levels to all enemies in range for 10 secs. 15 sec cooldown. 20 chi cost

Sage = Stuns all in 12 meter range (still has chance to miss) and has 66% chance to disarm all enemies in range for 10 secs 15 sec cool down. no chi cost

I just think both of these are too powerful. Plus, unless an opponent is anti-stunned then reducing their attack levels while stunned would matter (except your 10 seconds extends beyond the stun). They're already at a disadvantage being stunned, its kind of asking to much to be auto-debuffed everything a bm stuns you.

Same complaint against sage. Purify weapon procs realllllly suck for BMs, but a stun that completely takes away the chance of it proccing and allows us to chain stuns+debuffs against a caster is just too powerful, now.

Heaven's Flame would become this

Demon = Enemies in range absorb 300% physical/magical damage and has change to stun or seal for 10 secs (2 spark) 30 sec cooldown.
srsly? HF is already one of the most OP skills in the game and pretty much the main reason (not the only, but the main) to have a bm in your TW squad besides bell. Again, its just too OP and you'd still have the problem against casters that you have with our current HF. Once it's on if they're smart they kite away. Stun or seal for 10 seconds is again way too much to ask for and a melee class that seals when it aoes would be a pain in pve.

Sage = Enemies in range absorb 200% physical/magical damage and has a 50% chance to debuff. (2 spark) 30 sec cooldown.
You mean purge? Since HF is already a debuff, Curse. And a purged+HF opponent would take way more than 300% damage.

Reckless Rush would become this

Jump to target up to 30 meters stunning target for 5 secs, deals 100% weapon damage plus 3000 and has 50% chance to disarm enemy.
Upgrading freeze to stun and doubling the range, plus disarm? I can see the increased range being nice but I'd be happier if they fixed it from stopping us from moving+ casting everytime the enemy gets near max range.
Highland Cleave would become this

Demon = gains 50% chance to "disorient" (stun or seal) for 5 secs

Sage = gains 50% chance to disarm for 5 secs.
Chance to seal or stun would be fine in pvp but again would break pve when the mobs scatter everytime you aoe.
Fissure would become this

Demon = 66% chance to stun for 6 secs and 5000 bleed
I'll just stop commenting on every skill having the chance to stun or seal for such long lengths of time.
Sage = 66% chance to steal the opponent's will to fight (debuffs)
I wish it had a pdef debuff rather than a fire debuff but I understand this encourages "squad play"
Leaping skills would become this

Forward = flash of light blinds opponent and has 50 % chance to be disarmed

Backwards = player becomes untargetable for 10 secs
Leaps don't have targets...
Draw blood/ tiger maw would be combined and become this

Demon = base damage plus 100% weapon damage +5000 bleed damage 50% chance to disarm

Sage = base damage plus 100% weapon damage +5000 bleed damage 50% chance to stun

creation of two new skills

"Will of the Warrior" - allows BM to study extra hard and with ingenuity and increased cost of learning allows the BM to "cross-train" in other skills from other classes (up to 3 skills) - 5 million chi to buy random skill from a "chosen class" (can be rerolled at same cost if skill slot isn't filled) - requires 200,000 chi per level up to level 10 - sage and demon is then "learnable" *cannot learn Barb skills* -unlearned skills can be traded but have a 100 hour limited lifespan

Level 1 = 1 skill (10 million chi to unlock) + 10 million coins
Level 2 = 2 skills (15 million chi to unlock) +15 million coins
Level 3 = 3 skills (20 million chi to unlock) + 20 million coins
Sounds good, but would have to have a very strict list of skills we can learn. Some class skills would just be too OP.
Stench of the wasteland (stink bombs) - Allows BM to toss "grenades" that explode causing damage and poison to all enemies within 16 meters (@ lvl 1) to 25 meters (@ lvl 10)- inflicting 6000 phys & mag damage (@ lvl 1) to 15,000 phys and mag damage (lvl 10) and slows opponent by 50%

Demon = AOE purge and 5000 bleed damage (30 meter range)
You lost me at aoe purge. Too OP. Lol at 30m range.
Sage = loss of all chi and disarm all opponents in range (30 meter range)
You lost me at opponents automatically losing all their chi and losing their weapon. Lol at 30m range.

This is just a few spitballed ideas to make the class a bit more fun and tanky and able to compete against newer opd classes.

lokileya wrote: »

so i suggest reducing BTs chi requirement to 50 by keeping the 200chi over 12 seconds is only fair.

Silvaf wrote:

I disagree with the term 'equally' as mystics at least have the ability to kill at a... WAIT FOR IT... distance, and they can still be ridiculously difficult to take down if played right, those constant heals, can be quite hard to get through. (I realize the same can almost be said as far as if played right it can be hard to take down SOME bms but meh... that doesn't usually happen with the bm until gear is quite phenomenal, whereas to me it seems like a mystic could get away with gear that isn't refined to riduclous amounts and still do quite alright... but yea thats just my opinion. being a support who is unable to support isn't fun.)

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1. Seriously people need to stop reading in between the damn lines. << I didn't say bms should be able to kill... (though yes imho they ABSOLUTELY should be able too) NOW YOU CAN SAY THE BS ABOUT BMS NEEDING TO BE A DAMN SUPPORT. <<... to which i'll reply why in the hell do you think I added in "being a support that is unable to support is NOT fun." (yes it has a bit to do with the gear, but it is also the lack of viable useful skills that can be used with the amount of ease that others have. << seriously what is your reading comprehension level. Specifically we should be able to kill those pesky casters if we can close the gaps we should be able to kill you fairly easy, and yet that isn't the case, which is extremely annoying. (some casters have quite the ridiculous amount of phys def that they shouldn't have. << Though to be fair some melees also have quite insane magical res, but imho for what a melee has to go through is offsets their insane mag res def that some have. Due to you guessed it them not being able to attack at a distance, and them having to fight up close, meaning they have quite the potential to be ganked. )

You really do not seem to realize how useful being able to do things at a distance is in a mass pvp setting. (I am not saying it is ridiculous overpowered, but it IS useful in more ways than one.) You also used the word 'equally' ergo you got a response from me. I do not mean to be picky/single you out or anything, (AND I DO IT TOO I KNOW I DO) but yea words like that absolutely have the potential to elicit responses. If i hadn't said anything someone else likely would have.

The simple truth of the matter is that innate abilities always tips the scale of equality even if only a little, they still tip it from equality, though yes other abilities and intangibles try and tip that scale back to equality, but sadly that doesn't always happen, nor is it easy to see, especially when innate abilities, and gear can really outshine the skills AND gear of another.

2. That last line you do realize you pretty much said the same thing I said in the post that you quoted? Yours was just more localized so to speak.

XX_Raider_Xx - Sanctuary wrote: »

i wrote this a couple weeks ago, submitted it to GMs and posted it on another thread and feel it fits this thread

I can just hear the QQing from all that would experience "role - reversal"

Just a few thoughts.....

Aura of Golden Bell would become this

Demon = gains 25 atk/def levels (dependent on which marrow is active) for 30 secs and becomes un-purgable/ un-debuffable for 6 seconds. 10 sec cooldown. 15 chi gain

Sage = gains 300% Mdef/Pdef (dependent on which marrow is active) for 30 secs and becomes unpurgable/ undebuffable for 6 seconds. 10 sec cooldown - 3o chi gain

Roar of the Pride would become this

Demon = Stuns all in 12 meter range (doesn't miss) reduces 20 atk/ 20 def levels to all enemies in range for 10 secs. 15 sec cooldown. 20 chi cost

Sage = Stuns all in 12 meter range (still has chance to miss) and has 66% chance to disarm all enemies in range for 10 secs 15 sec cool down. no chi cost

Heaven's Flame would become this

Demon = Enemies in range absorb 300% physical/magical damage and has change to stun or seal for 10 secs (2 spark) 30 sec cooldown.

Sage = Enemies in range absorb 200% physical/magical damage and has a 50% chance to debuff. (2 spark) 30 sec cooldown.

Reckless Rush would become this

Jump to target up to 30 meters stunning target for 5 secs, deals 100% weapon damage plus 3000 and has 50% chance to disarm enemy.

Highland Cleave would become this

Demon = gains 50% chance to "disorient" (stun or seal) for 5 secs

Sage = gains 50% chance to disarm for 5 secs.

Fissure would become this

Demon = 66% chance to stun for 6 secs and 5000 bleed

Sage = 66% chance to steal the opponent's will to fight (debuffs)

Leaping skills would become this

Forward = flash of light blinds opponent and has 50 % chance to be disarmed

Backwards = player becomes untargetable for 10 secs

Draw blood/ tiger maw would be combined and become this

Demon = base damage plus 100% weapon damage +5000 bleed damage 50% chance to disarm

Sage = base damage plus 100% weapon damage +5000 bleed damage 50% chance to stun

creation of two new skills

"Will of the Warrior" - allows BM to study extra hard and with ingenuity and increased cost of learning allows the BM to "cross-train" in other skills from other classes (up to 3 skills) - 5 million chi to buy random skill from a "chosen class" (can be rerolled at same cost if skill slot isn't filled) - requires 200,000 chi per level up to level 10 - sage and demon is then "learnable" *cannot learn Barb skills* -unlearned skills can be traded but have a 100 hour limited lifespan

Level 1 = 1 skill (10 million chi to unlock) + 10 million coins
Level 2 = 2 skills (15 million chi to unlock) +15 million coins
Level 3 = 3 skills (20 million chi to unlock) + 20 million coins

Stench of the wasteland (stink bombs) - Allows BM to toss "grenades" that explode causing damage and poison to all enemies within 16 meters (@ lvl 1) to 25 meters (@ lvl 10)- inflicting 6000 phys & mag damage (@ lvl 1) to 15,000 phys and mag damage (lvl 10) and slows opponent by 50%

Demon = AOE purge and 5000 bleed damage (30 meter range)

Sage = loss of all chi and disarm all opponents in range (30 meter range)


This is just a few spitballed ideas to make the class a bit more fun and tanky and able to compete against newer opd classes.