Problems with the bm class. And unbalance between g16/r9rr

Toddloveleah - Harshlands
Toddloveleah - Harshlands Posts: 250 Arc User
edited December 2013 in Blademaster
I have played this game for 4 years, bms used to be one of the best classes to play and had many of the top players on server as a bm. Not anymore. Each and every single update has screwed over bms while making other classes more powerful.

As i look through this forum i see the words "best support class" a lot. That's great but what if you are tired of getting one shot by casters while in mag marrow? The most powerful people on my server are not bms. Actually i know of maybe 5-6 full r9rr bms while i know 200 archers, sins, etc other classes that are r9rr lol.

I'm quitting for that reason and the unbalance between g16/r9rr. Its way to much to even get r9 let alone r9rr and anyone who has it either c'sed, did amazing farming or merch. And lets not kid ourselves 85% of the current r9rrs used credit farming and will probably never admit it.

I remember this game years ago, so many new players so much fun. Now its all about pwis greed for more money. So they made r9rr and g16. G16 is for the broke players and r9rr for the rich. And what a surprise r9rrs one hit me while laughing as i hit them for 200 damage with +7 unicorn tragedys. I won't lie i throw a 10-20 bucks on the game every here and there to help out but mostly farm/merch. Still i die over and over again no matter what.

So its like im playing a underpowered class, with underpowered gear.

So PWI i have some suggestions

1. Give bms a DECENT update. I'm serious level the playing field ITS NOT LEVELED RIGHT NOW. And bm's like me are tired of only being useful for dg and besides that getting owned.
2. Make the games gears more leveled. I know you guys think of the major cash shoppers primarily and make it so they are the most powerful but if lots of people like me who just throw what they have on to the game but can't sink entire paychecks into the game quit there goes way more money than just the couple of major cashshopers. Many>Few.

I'd suggest with the introduction of r10 or r9rrr or w.e you guys are doing come out with a g17 or g16r that can contend or at least be 75% as good. You will make more money that way if the poor man can at least fight with the rich guy for a minute before death more people will play less will quit. It might actually return to when you have tons of lower lvls who play who knows but with how the game is now that will never happen.
Post edited by Toddloveleah - Harshlands on
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Comments

  • Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear
    Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    QQmoar
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    As much as I agree with this topic, I think it would be best I stay clear of this topic like it's the plague.

    It is an uphill battle fighting for bms to get something more worthwhile, you will meet resistance every step of the way, although it may sound like I am saying you shouldn't fight for it... that isn't what I am saying at all... I just hope you have more strength than I did, by 'giving' up on my crusade back there. I am glad my thread died down, I do not wish to reply to it anymore.

    In other words good luck! You'll need it/bm's arguably need it... but yea convincing others of that is like trying to take down a gunfighter with a knife it so isn't easy at all... doable but ridicolously hard.
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Maybe harshland has fewer people playing? On sanctuary there are quite a few bms who are r9 3rd cast.

    I still enjoy pwi, i am just sad on missing out the orbs so i could refine my alt to +10 on the weapon b:cry.

    Back to the main topic, wait around for the card system to get introduced. The boost will be immense for pvp with the card systems and reincarnations. Granted if everyone does it, we are back to the same old problem. But that will take time. Especially leveling again and farming/buying the cards.
  • Strength - Dreamweaver
    Strength - Dreamweaver Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I dont agree with the g16 vs r9 thing

    My openion about this is that if you are willing to spend a lot of cash you should get some gear that is a lot better than the cheap alternative of g16 else it wouldnt make sence to even bother getting r9
  • tingalindesu
    tingalindesu Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    And lets not kid ourselves 85% of the current r9rrs used credit farming and will probably never admit it.

    Most people make up their percentages :3
  • FistToDeath - Dreamweaver
    FistToDeath - Dreamweaver Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Most people make up their percentages :3

    85% of them do.
    b:chuckle
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The upcoming card system is the new R10 pretty much.
    Although I don't like how it's made, I gotta give it to them for implementing new gear "indirectly" and the boost affects all gears too so it might be good/decent on G16.

    I'd love a new recast Nirvana or R8 along with some new instance to farm for those but doubt we'll be seeing that anytime soon.
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  • Sjuggs - Lost City
    Sjuggs - Lost City Posts: 617 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    QQmoar

    Says the sin, btw try to not get tired by playing such a hard class b:laugh


    OP, although I agree with you pretty much I would suggest you to just forget about pvp forever and just focus on pve. Yeah pvp on bms is quite pointless if we dont't have at least R9RR +10. So don't force yourself to play anything, so if you wanna quit that's also fine and I'm sorry.
    I understand you very well, I'm on R8R/NVg16 +7 and I've been 1 shot on physical marrow by knife throws(crit, zerks) while even using physical ornaments, and I've been hit for 18k+ on magic marrow by casters while on magic ornaments too. So when I still used to do NW(I already quit that)most of the time I could only watch the "fights" while flying very high waiting for them to finish. In fact, I only log in to do BH with my very old friends.
  • Toddloveleah - Harshlands
    Toddloveleah - Harshlands Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I dont agree with the g16 vs r9 thing

    My opinion about this is that if you are willing to spend a lot of cash you should get some gear that is a lot better than the cheap alternative of g16 else it wouldnt make sence to even bother getting r9

    ^this is exactly what im talking about though, yeah people who either spend a ton of cash or are extremely good farmers or merchants should have more powerful gear. However.

    Many>Few

    There are a lot more people who are going to either farm r9 or never going to get it and settle with g16. If Pwi loses the many it wont matter if they keep the few cash shoppers because like i said i put 10 or 20 bucks on the game every here and there combined with farming and merch i have bills i can't put whole paychecks on this game nor do i think its a good idea. But i have nothing compared to some players it sometimes seems like a few players are completely rich and play this game for the lulz because from day one they are destined to be the most powerful. So if pwi loses the many it will effect them very badly.

    This is why i suggest a g16r or a g17 at least make it half as good as r9rr, the rich can still get their much better OP gear but its ridiculous that even with the best non r9 gear OP players still can one shot or two shot it sucks! If the OP players quit because they can't one hit every g16 person anymore instead 4-5 hit than that's just straight up QQ'ing and they should quit.

    The only times money can't buy you a win is if you play another rich player or someone else with r9rr that they farmed or w.e but you can always one shot the g16 people.

    My suggestion as far as the bm class goes is just a up to date update for the bm. Marrows are to easy to get around it would be an improvement if the marrows boosted the desired defense while not lowering the opposite defense. This would completely change BM's mass pvp survivablilty but its not like the bm would be OP with this update it would just make the battle field more leveled.

    A Magical bell buff would be nice with all the buffs every other class has its sad the bm has one physical bell and a buddas guard which only lasts 10 seconds rofl. Even if it was just a self buff it would be useful but really make the bm a better class you gave all the other older classes nice updates UPDATE THE BM!
  • Toddloveleah - Harshlands
    Toddloveleah - Harshlands Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The upcoming card system is the new R10 pretty much.
    Although I don't like how it's made, I gotta give it to them for implementing new gear "indirectly" and the boost affects all gears too so it might be good/decent on G16.

    I'd love a new recast Nirvana or R8 along with some new instance to farm for those but doubt we'll be seeing that anytime soon.

    Yes but it pretty much boosts all gears so however OP r9rr is now it will be just as OP. The only difference will be who is to lazy to rebirth.

    Well they already have r8r and g16 is technically t3 or nirvana 3rd cast but i understand this is pretty much what im suggesting a more powerful alternative.
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Maybe harshland has fewer people playing? On sanctuary there are quite a few bms who are r9 3rd cast.

    Off the top of my head, there's around 20-ish full r9rr BMs on HL. The majority of the rest are sitting in g16 Nirv or APS gear at +5 and wondering why they get one shot by anyone with decent DD power.
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  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Off the top of my head, there's around 20-ish full r9rr BMs on HL. The majority of the rest are sitting in g16 Nirv or APS gear at +5 and wondering why they get one shot by anyone with decent DD power.

    *rolls eyes* (For real... no sarcasm on this part)

    Yes... it is always the gear or the player behind the class, it can NEVER be a problem/imbalance with the class itself. /sarcasm.

    EDIT: Yes it is true that every class gets one shot when vastly outgeared by their opponent but the truth of the matter (Imo) some classes have it far better off than others thanks to the skills available to each class.

    ---

    Meh I so want to ignore this post... err this thread, but yea... I will be... 'trolling' it... as it does hit close to 'home' for me.
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • Toddloveleah - Harshlands
    Toddloveleah - Harshlands Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Off the top of my head, there's around 20-ish full r9rr BMs on HL. The majority of the rest are sitting in g16 Nirv or APS gear at +5 and wondering why they get one shot by anyone with decent DD power.

    20 full r9rr bms and do you ever wonder why that number is so low? ^read the post above.
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    20 full r9rr bms and do you ever wonder why that number is so low? ^read the post above.

    Of course it's not going to be as high as the number of archers/mages/psys/sins/seekers because most people in basically every game would prefer to play a DD rather than support. As for the other support classes, there are definitely more full r9rr BMs on the server than there are venos and mystics. Clerics + barbs have more than BMs, but those are your bread and butter healer + tank classes.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    So much QQ.

    We recieved great morai skills so I don't see us as completely getting rejected by the expansions. Alot of our gear has been driven by the anti-aps movement which is why we got an altered r9t3 set than what china got and ours has less mdef, vit, and aps. That hurt but we're still beastly in r9t3.

    r9t3 is also not that much more than G16. If you chose to go for the easier goal than obivously the reward wont be as good. The gear is only a fraction of the price of endgame, too. r9t3 gear is roughly 1/4 of the cost, +10 is another 1/4, and JoSD/Vit shards are half the cost. I see full +10 G16 with vit shard people complaining they couldn't afford r9t3 and I'm like >.< since they've already spent 2-3 times the cost of refining and sharding their G16.

    I still think one of the biggest problems in this game is the 100 magic/100% damage multiplier. For every other class it takes 150str/multiplier or 150 dex/multiplier. With Ascension coming out and 156 possible extra stats it will be possible for casters to get 1000 magic, while BMs will have about 700 strength. This means they'll get 10x their weapon damage while we get 4.67. That's a major issue to me. I did see something in the notes about a new addition to damage multipliers but it didn't say anything more.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    So much QQ.

    We recieved great morai skills so I don't see us as completely getting rejected by the expansions. Alot of our gear has been driven by the anti-aps movement which is why we got an altered r9t3 set than what china got and ours has less mdef, vit, and aps. That hurt but we're still beastly in r9t3.

    *snip*

    Sorry just interested in replying to that tidbit.

    I can understand the removal of aps, but for the love of all that is sweet, and just... WHY... WHY... why (insert more QQ here) did they have to remove the mdef/vit those dirty rotten scoundrels. D: (I realize this is likely not something you or anyone else can really answer with any amount of certainty, or much less be able to convince me that it was justified to remove the mdef/vit. Still though... very annoying that they did that. D:)
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    With Ascension coming out and 156 possible extra stats it will be possible for casters to get 1000 magic, while BMs will have about 700 strength. This means they'll get 10x their weapon damage while we get 4.67. That's a major issue to me. I did see something in the notes about a new addition to damage multipliers but it didn't say anything more.

    What 156 extra stats? Do cards give attribute points?
    The most points you can get through reincarnating/ascending is 76. They reported no additional points being given if you ascend a second time.
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    Sorry just interested in replying to that tidbit.

    I can understand the removal of aps, but for the love of all that is sweet, and just... WHY... WHY... why (insert more QQ here) did they have to remove the mdef/vit those dirty rotten scoundrels. D: (I realize this is likely not something you or anyone else can really answer with any amount of certainty, or much less be able to convince me that it was justified to remove the mdef/vit. Still though... very annoying that they did that. D:)

    The answer is obvious b:chuckle
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    OPKossy wrote: »

    Rofl ^^ epic :D

    I can so see someone doing that at their offices. /o\
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    What 156 extra stats? Do cards give attribute points?
    The most points you can get through reincarnating/ascending is 76. They reported no additional points being given if you ascend a second time.

    I thought it was 78 and I've heard through the rumor mill that ascension can be done twice, so 2 x 78 stats. What would be the point of doing it a second time? Who knows, rumors and all...

    Still, the difference between 800 magic casters now and 500 strength BMs is the same point.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • FistToDeath - Dreamweaver
    FistToDeath - Dreamweaver Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I thought it was 78 and I've heard through the rumor mill that ascension can be done twice, so 2 x 78 stats. What would be the point of doing it a second time? Who knows, rumors and all...

    Still, the difference between 800 magic casters now and 500 strength BMs is the same point.

    I remember it being 72, and you could only get them once (even if you can reincarnate more than once).

    Not the most up-to-date person on the update info, though, so don't quote me on that.
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The only part of the update news that made me O_O was the multiplier bit. Cant wait hear more.

    I hope they nerf casters, especially venos and boost us lil archers so I can moar kill stuffs. b:thanks
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  • rose1111111
    rose1111111 Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Bm's r just fine, there is only 1 down side, lack of chi. the new update will solve this. And its not that bms r weak, its just that u get focused because there r so many ranged classes. Try 1v1 a bm with even gear, a skilled bm will give u a run for your money.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Well still rumors yeah though I trust the people who post on Bubbles' thread (a number of them) and there was a list of points you receive based on what level you ascend with max being 76 as far as I remember.

    Not sure what is the second ascension for though o_o
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  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Well still rumors yeah though I trust the people who post on Bubbles' thread (a number of them) and there was a list of points you receive based on what level you ascend with max being 76 as far as I remember.

    Not sure what is the second ascension for though o_o

    How many alts have we levelled from 0-100 with mindless fcc? They want to give us that opportunity for our mains now b:cute
  • kakabulle3
    kakabulle3 Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited November 2013

    I'm quitting for that reason and the unbalance between g16/r9rr. Its way to much to even get r9 let alone r9rr and anyone who has it either c'sed, did amazing farming or merch. And lets not kid ourselves 85% of the current r9rrs used credit farming and will probably never admit it.

    WRONG! 95% of the r9rr's have botfarmed b:victory
  • Morridune - Raging Tide
    Morridune - Raging Tide Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    just want decent sword and pole with equivalent damage and procs as r9rr and we're set hell even fists while we're at it as a GoF DDB be nice once in a while to dish a little magic damage like every single other class seems to be able to lol
  • invinciblebub
    invinciblebub Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I agree with the original post. Honestly, the BMs that are R9rr + 10 are only trying to hang onto a dying class. It is no secret that BMs were once OP and that PWI had to divide this powerful class into sub classes such as Seeker and Sin. Instead of nerfing BM, they made the newer classes even more powerful. I think a lot of us refuse to accept that BM sucks and continue to play as if they were so great.

    There is a tremendous imbalance in terms of gear and not keeping in mind skills. BMs have to have 2 sets of gear (aps & aoe) to stay competitive in this game. The cost of owning 2 sets of gear is a lot regardless of any grade. Essentially, you paying a lot more for a lot less when compared to other classes.

    Also, by not including fist/claw in the r9 is an obvious sign that they want to nerf BM. It doesn't make much sense that they say they want to nerf aps but give Sin r9rr dagger with Gof proc while BMs are stuck with g16 fist/claw. And, you have to keep in mind, that sins have 45% crit rate and bloodpaint they out dd BMs on so many levels.

    BMs are now medicore at best and probably one of the worst class to play due to high cost.
  • Toddloveleah - Harshlands
    Toddloveleah - Harshlands Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    @ the post about how bm's got great new morai updates.

    Blade Hurl- Great skill, gives the bm more of the support role than anything still since the damage is low and you de-weapon yourself for 3 seconds as well. So if you 1v1 you de-weapon your opponent then you get 3 seconds where they can run until they have their weapon back unless you stun which depends on whether you have a spark or if you a roar fast enough. ugh.

    Reel In- Useful but if you have bad soulforce basically worthless if you are using against a higher gear.

    Flame Tsunami- Probably the best skill out of the bunch.

    Blade Tornado- My personal fav, however the more casters and others see this skill the more they just use holy path to run away or jump in the air to avoid damage -.-. Very deadly if you can get a stun off or someone is just to stupid to run away lol.



    The updates to BMs that would make them one of the good classes again wouldn't really be that hard. Marrows that don't drop one side of your defense would make the bm more well rounded. A magical bell buff would be nice and if the class is really supposed to be a support class it would be nice if they had more than one buff [not counting the 10 second budda guard -.-].

    If you look at any class you can find a super OP skill and the bm you really cant find that anymore. HF was once that great of a skill but now with all the procs and purifys and **** you cant even use it on someone without it being purged off. Same with stuns those are almost useless now because of the procs so then the ONLY thing a bm really has going for them is another old unless skill.
  • Zarkin_Baxil - Raging Tide
    Zarkin_Baxil - Raging Tide Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Blade Tornado- My personal fav, however the more casters and others see this skill the more they just use holy path to run away or jump in the air to avoid damage -.-. Very deadly if you can get a stun off or someone is just to stupid to run away lol.

    You know you can jump while you are in blade tornado right? I follow people all the time with it even in the air. I laugh my *** off when I'm in BT and people are flying to low and I jump up and kill them with it. Good times.