worries about the cleric class

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · July 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Depend why he do it, sometime GF is the best way to save people, even better than a heal.

I did a lunar last week and I'm telling you if I didn't used GF people would have died, I used it all the run and no one complained about it even the BM told me at the end ''Good job, without that we would have die many time.''

In GV/RB/Delta I can kill a wave in a few seconds, I never saw a sin do that, so I don't care if the sin is crying cause his single target move while I DD all mobs.

Not every class can have BP so unless you make a squad with only melee you need a healer, in FC class like wizz and archer get easy aggro and don't have bp, so unless you ask them to don't DD at all they need some heal to survive.

A lot of people don't even survive the second boss if they don't get purify by the cleric. I'm speaking about a legit run here, no boss glitching. Cause ofc a full squad of sins can solo glitch the FC without need a cleric, but other class do FC to lvl not just sins/melees.

As always, it largely depends on smart play. And use of GF is better debated in the mystic forums, but it sort of is relevant here. I had a cleric kick a mystic from a Lunar run about 2 months ago and last week I was whispered to kick the veno in a lunar for using Parasitic Nova. I pulled on my barb, grouped the mobs nice and tight, tanking no problem... then the Veno used Nova and the mobs scattered and all became ranged. I went from having 20 melee mobs to having 20 magic mobs on me and I died. I could no longer get paint heals because I was only hitting 1/3 of the mobs. I was being slowed and having to chase mobs so I wasn't attacking. The BM was doing the same thing.

On the other hand, I ran Nix with a veno friend the other day and they used Nova at the perfect time (similar effect to GF). They specifically waited for me to use Fissure so the mobs were slowed (even pointed it out) and my repair bill was about 1/3 its normally cost.

I know GF hits fricken hard. Wait till the mobs are within 1 GF of death to use it, pls.

Archers and wizards should take almost zero damage in FCC unless they're pulling. This is an intelligence thing and alot want to spark as the barb invokes and drop an ulti 1 second after a roar -.- They just need a few deaths. All it takes is being a hit or two behind the barb, so 3 seconds of waiting? Once into the 90s even legit squads can kill the bubble boss in 2 sparks, meaning only one bubble, maybe 2. ToP, problem solved.

There are plenty of situations you can come up with where people do stupid things and need a healer. There are tons more where people play smart and can think outside the box or adjust to situations and have much better runs.

Sidenote: GF seems to hit harder than its description: base + 100% + 2700dmg. I mean, that's less than a wizards gush, lol. Btw, sins are nothing to scoff at in delta. With my G15's +10 I'd often one shot mob waves by trip spark zerking 120ks during HF. I out aggroed many r9 psy/wizards and usually got aggro for about the first 30 seconds, if mobs lasted longer than that I'd lose it but by then almost everything was dead.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · July 2013

When I do full lunar with my alt sin... er my 105 alt sin, except for last boss I go violet dance mode and debuff the **** outta the boss with a macro. Have the bm in squad hf, and most bosses come close to dying in a single spark. This reduces repair a lot, saves time, and actually increases survivability by avoiding some of the nasty things the bosses do at low hp.

When I do heal, its a mixture of vanguard spirit and ironheart, all of which can be macroed. Tab to boss and use dimensional seal then hit sin and macro before tabbing back to sin.

Healing in pve is so easy! >.<; Why are we still talking about this, lol.

ovenusarmanio · July 2013

Because most random squads don't have the gear tier of either of you, and healing becomes more complicated as a result. Going VD on pretty much any of the level 100+ bosses with a bunch of people in tt99 is going to result in a wipe. All the clerics complaining about people dying are probably running with people in average gear. For example, I do not remember the bubble boss dying in an of my FC squads within two spark sparkles until I started doing FC 100+, and by then I did not need them and ran with others when I was too lazy and/or did not feel like doing it on my own. BP helps a lot of course in average geared squads, but it isn't the skill that is shining in squads with people in high end gear (anyone running around with +10 anything is higher end. Maybe not endgame, but still that is not the norm) it's the gear. They are doing so much damage they can elevate BP to be way better than it is in an average geared squad. For those squads, it makes a huge difference whether or not the cleric and mystic communicate with one another. Or if they behave like the situation described in the OP.

tweakz · July 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Depend why he do it, sometime GF is the best way to save people, even better than a heal.

I did a lunar last week and I'm telling you if I didn't used GF people would have died, I used it all the run and no one complained about it even the BM told me at the end ''Good job, without that we would have die many time.''

In GV/RB/Delta I can kill a wave in a few seconds, I never saw a sin do that, so I don't care if the sin is crying cause his single target move while I DD all mobs.

Not every class can have BP so unless you make a squad with only melee you need a healer, in FC class like wizz and archer get easy aggro and don't have bp, so unless you ask them to don't DD at all they need some heal to survive.

A lot of people don't even survive the second boss if they don't get purify by the cleric. I'm speaking about a legit run here, no boss glitching. Cause ofc a full squad of sins can solo glitch the FC without need a cleric, but other class do FC to lvl not just sins/melees.

Agree: when solo healing an RB; GF is often needed. -Nice because mystic can dd while healing. Wiz and seeker get reduced repair costs thanks to GF. Sage version of GF may make a big difference.

Some over use GF. It should almost never be used in BH metal unless it's for pulling or catching.

Lol@sin crying. Most of the ones on HT are pathetic 1-1 derp-apsers that contribute almost nothing to the run. Chasing mobs around that can be 2-shot by any ranged AoE'er is idiotic especially when they could do something productive like: Chill of the Deep -> Celestial Erupt -> Inner Harmony -> tab -> Earthen Rift -> Subsea -> Toxic Torrent -> Earthen Rift.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · July 2013

tweakz wrote: »

Chill of the Deep -> Celestial Erupt -> Inner Harmony -> tab -> Earthen Rift -> Subsea -> Toxic Torrent -> Earthen Rift.

i'd rift after subsea and throw a wolf emblem. on the other hand, it's oftern more useful to just subsea in the start as it syncs better with the other debuffs and people throwing ultis

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · July 2013

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

When I do full lunar with my alt sin... er my 105 alt sin, except for last boss I go violet dance mode and debuff the **** outta the boss with a macro. Have the bm in squad hf, and most bosses come close to dying in a single spark. This reduces repair a lot, saves time, and actually increases survivability by avoiding some of the nasty things the bosses do at low hp.

When I do heal, its a mixture of vanguard spirit and ironheart, all of which can be macroed. Tab to boss and use dimensional seal then hit sin and macro before tabbing back to sin.

Healing in pve is so easy! >.<; Why are we still talking about this, lol.

Not everyone is 105 R9rr+12 ijs... some people are 100 with normal gars and ranged ppl need heal, I don't know how others play their class on other servers, but on HL it's not rare a archer and wizz get aggro on a pull/boss, even psy does, good luck to tell them ''BP will heal you!!''.

You speak like you don't take casters and archers, I'm sorry, but those class need to farm too, not everyone have a sin 105 like you to solo farm lunar or w/e instance.

Your sin is maybe your alt, but you have a sin attitude for sure. People should not be obligated to make a sin to farm, people should be able to get squad on their main nvm their class. There's boss that I cannot spark or full DD on my mystic or a get aggro even with sin, barb and bm in squad and bp doesn't work on me. My bf play archer and always end with aggro on everything and as good as he is he need heal to survive pull and boss...

So as I said and Venus said, in a normal average squad heals are needed. Not every squad ca kill boss in half a 3 sparks. If you can GZ, but not every can.

tweakz · July 2013

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i'd rift after subsea and throw a wolf emblem. on the other hand, it's oftern more useful to just subsea in the start as it syncs better with the other debuffs and people throwing ultis

If you try that you'll notice that you wait longer to aoe again the way you suggest (this is a 4 hit aoe combo). I did forget about wolf emblem but I'm more on my sage where it's 30m and forgettable.

Timing can be an issue, though I've had more problems with Barbs moving mobs than BM's HF timing (I start the combo as the mobs are coming in).

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · July 2013

tweakz wrote: »

If you try that you'll notice that you wait longer to aoe again the way you suggest (this is a 4 hit aoe combo). I did forget about wolf emblem but I'm more on my sage where it's 30m and forgettable.

Timing can be an issue, though I've had more problems with Barbs moving mobs than BM's HF timing (I start the combo as the mobs are coming in).

Squad dependant, largely on how the BM HFs. For the most squad dd Potato's combo is usually better because you get the HF + Subsea together, so everyone is dealing 260-300% (lvl 10-sage subsea). Your combo works to get the most personal DD as you get an extra rift on your triple spark and Rift->trip spark->Subsea->Rift works perfectly for cooldowns. For delta I'd favor his combo because amping 5 DD's is better than getting 1 extra attack.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver · July 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Your sin is maybe your alt, but you have a sin attitude for sure. People should not be obligated to make a sin to farm, people should be able to get squad on their main nvm their class.

There is a difference in having a sin mentality and actually knowing what the squad requires. It has been posted over and over that in certain situations a cleric is actually better off providing a debuff and/or attacking than healing a sin that is already getting enough heals from BP. For those clerics that do have other toons they play that can tank they know how both sides work - If everyone had the skill and "attitude" that Aeliah has then these sort of forum posts wouldn't pop up so much.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · July 2013

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There is a difference in having a sin mentality and actually knowing what the squad requires. It has been posted over and over that in certain situations a cleric is actually better off providing a debuff and/or attacking than healing a sin that is already getting enough heals from BP. For those clerics that do have other toons they play that can tank they know how both sides work - If everyone had the skill and "attitude" that Aeliah has then these sort of forum posts wouldn't pop up so much.

Yes I do agree that a debuff is better than a heal for sin in some situation, but not everyone is playing sins, if a wizz is about to die debuff the mobs/boss all you want it won't save him while a heal will, that's my points all squads don't have sin/bm/barb.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · July 2013

I'm not above healing, don't get me wrong. On the rare occasions I join random squads, I do plenty of healing, certainly far more than I normally do.

The thing is, *when* your gear gets to a certain point, heals become a bit superfluous. In warsong for example, as long as I have sin cleric and any bm there, the boss will die in roughly 1 spark cycle. The boss doesn't get much chance to hit anybody, thus no heals are really needed. Now clearly if there was a 5k hp light armor in squad just waiting to be creamed by the boss aoes, I'd have little choice but to BB, but doing so gives up 2 debuffs and some of clerics own damage (the debuffs being most important ofc).

If I instead healed healed healed in these sorts of medium/well geared squads (all of my warsong squads are sorta like this), the boss would take 2 sparks to kill, or maybe 1.5... point is, the dps' triple spark would run out, and bloodpaint heals would drop as boss damage rises (thinking of bh snake here in particular). So in this fairly common scenario, doing the 2 debuffs to ensure boss dies in a single triple spark not only saves time and gear damage, it also makes things... safer. Just get the bm to do a demon bell before his demon hf, and you are tickety boo, lol.

And to be honest, I often look at healing from a pker's perspective. Which is to say that, I don't particularly care if you charm ticks couple times, as long as you survive the damage coming your way. In pve terms, the equivalent is that, while I'm certainly not trying to waste anybody's charm, I'm not above letting a few charm ticks slide if it comes with a massive increase of run speed. Certainly with barbs, bms, and seekers, I do try and send a heal there way if there hp is nearing half, since their ticks are rather larger than other classes.

So yeah my style isn't as ultra safe as some, but it comes with a lot of offensive advantages I believe. In pvp, I can spam heal somebody spam spam spam, or I can give them just the heal they need to survive a situation, and then I can be saving somebody else/rebuffing/reviving. That is to say, for the overall good of the squad, I'll let some charm ticks slide if I think you aren't gonna die from the attack. My aim is to keep you alive, not preserve your charm, and the two don't always coincide.

In pve, I do the necessary heals, spend rest of time debuffing (on bosses, on lunar mob pulls I will do heal macro on seeker, or BB).

So you see!

Christona - Raging Tide · July 2013

Figured i would say something about how my mystic is in fc's now since this theard was started about it. I have changed my play style completely. I have stopped rez buffing the cleric if they do not heal (this seems to work when they ask for one and i say, you arent doing ur job so why should do i mine?) I switch my f bars to more of a plant setup with my debuffing plants on it. Now when the cleric is fail, the squad see it and we all wipe and normally end up getting a new cleric or just going 5man with me as the healer. But yeah.. yay for being a mean.mystic!

tweakz · July 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Squad dependant, largely on how the BM HFs. For the most squad dd Potato's combo is usually better because you get the HF + Subsea together, so everyone is dealing 260-300% (lvl 10-sage subsea). Your combo works to get the most personal DD as you get an extra rift on your triple spark and Rift->trip spark->Subsea->Rift works perfectly for cooldowns. For delta I'd favor his combo because amping 5 DD's is better than getting 1 extra attack.

You're right; it is very squad dependent. I offered it as an example of what sins could do instead of making themselves counter productive by chasing ranged mobs around. It also indicates to others that sins don't have to be such **** poor aoe dd's. -More should be expected of the class.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · July 2013

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

Figured i would say something about how my mystic is in fc's now since this theard was started about it. I have changed my play style completely. I have stopped rez buffing the cleric if they do not heal (this seems to work when they ask for one and i say, you arent doing ur job so why should do i mine?) I switch my f bars to more of a plant setup with my debuffing plants on it. Now when the cleric is fail, the squad see it and we all wipe and normally end up getting a new cleric or just going 5man with me as the healer. But yeah.. yay for being a mean.mystic!

Eh, yay for being petty. Just hope they don't have lead to kick you for making demands on how you think they should play.

I am more cautious when I give advice. I'm always there to help people if they want advice but some just don't want advice. Some are just bad. Some have their own reasons for doing things their own way. Some do things differently then I do but it works for them. Some don't know any better and are happy for a small bit of advice. Others will be offended when you give them the best advice, even if they're doing things horribly wrong. And then occasionally I suggest something and they explain themselves and I learn something new and am better for it.

I don't worsen my playstyle for them, like you do by not buffing. I also try not to make the other 4 members of a squad suffer because 1 person is being an idiot. Let's be honest, in an equivalent real life scenario you probably wouldn't say/do anything. Its just because they're a stranger online that you think you need to point out some rather insignificant faults.

Ask politely. Then point it out and tell them straight forward what you'd like. Then leave, blacklist, and move on or kick if you have the option. Working together is usually a better option than having a hissy fit.

tweakz · July 2013

I really like mystics for rb. Today I scored 2 of them in one bh run, and one in another. Sadly there aren't many good ones around. One was overjoyed at being able to play the class the way they wanted to when I told them to please use Gale Force. The other two seemed quite happy as well.

I don't think people realize how much faster mobs get killed with Gale Force, or how much repair costs and or pots are saved by it. It's very easy to adapt to it's use by others. It's essential to use when I'm solo healing and possibly tanking in RB as it's an integral part of protecting / healing.

There are many occasions where it's more suitable for a mystic to heal than a cleric. The BH Aba/SoT bosses make a good example because the bleed is based on max HP and disregards Regeneration Aura's defense aspect. Wouldn't it be wiser to have a Cleric go UV and use Mark of Weakness, Shackle, Elemental/Dimensional Seal as needed?

The mystics refusing to heal reminds me of the early venos that didn't amp unless you practically threatened to kick them from the squad. There are some toons you just don't want to heal because they're not worth the time and they need to learn, but the laziness of some mystics is just that bad. Play a wiz, or seeker so you can sit around in DB, or Vortex half the time if that's your MO. I love to dd on mystic myself, but face it: there's only 2 main healers in this game; and mystic is one of them.

Christona - Raging Tide · July 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Eh, yay for being petty. Just hope they don't have lead to kick you for making demands on how you think they should play.

I am more cautious when I give advice. I'm always there to help people if they want advice but some just don't want advice. Some are just bad. Some have their own reasons for doing things their own way. Some do things differently then I do but it works for them. Some don't know any better and are happy for a small bit of advice. Others will be offended when you give them the best advice, even if they're doing things horribly wrong. And then occasionally I suggest something and they explain themselves and I learn something new and am better for it.

I don't worsen my playstyle for them, like you do by not buffing. I also try not to make the other 4 members of a squad suffer because 1 person is being an idiot. Let's be honest, in an equivalent real life scenario you probably wouldn't say/do anything. Its just because they're a stranger online that you think you need to point out some rather insignificant faults.

Ask politely. Then point it out and tell them straight forward what you'd like. Then leave, blacklist, and move on or kick if you have the option. Working together is usually a better option than having a hissy fit.

Ehh, first i make my squad as a mystic now... seeing as you never have played one from your own signature, you have really dont know what i orginally was getting at. As i said in my post, if they stop healing, they do not get rez buff. That means if they start dd'ing more than healing and others are suffering for it, i stop rez buffing them. Im not worsening my playstyle at all. I can easily heal fc if the cleric dies off from being a dd'er and not healing. Im fine with healing til the cleric had a long walk back to think about what they were doing. If the squad wipes and have to regroup and rebuff from the cleric not doing what he joined the squad to do, its not my fault. I wc'ed for a cleric to heal not to dd. Thats the job you joined the squad to do so sorry, if you dont do your job, dont expect to get my reward (rez buff) for doing your job. Im not having a hissy fit, im simply not doing my job which is rez buff them when they are not doing their job to heal. Its a give and take type of thing.
Also, as i have said in eariler post, ijs, when i try to suggest something i normally get the classical responce stop telling me how to play my toon and im sick of it so i dont offer any suggestion anymore. I simply stop covering for the cleric. Also, if telling the cleric to heal is making demands on how to their toons, i should be kicking more and more ppl in bh100's they tell me to heal.. now that isnt right.. so by your logic i should be kicking them if i wanna be a mmm'er? I dont think i would get very many ppl wanting to be with in a squad with me anymore.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · July 2013

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ehh, first i make my squad as a mystic now... seeing as you never have played one from your own signature, you have really dont know what i orginally was getting at. As i said in my post, if they stop healing, they do not get rez buff. That means if they start dd'ing more than healing and others are suffering for it, i stop rez buffing them. Im not worsening my playstyle at all. I can easily heal fc if the cleric dies off from being a dd'er and not healing. Im fine with healing til the cleric had a long walk back to think about what they were doing. If the squad wipes and have to regroup and rebuff from the cleric not doing what he joined the squad to do, its not my fault. I wc'ed for a cleric to heal not to dd. Thats the job you joined the squad to do so sorry, if you dont do your job, dont expect to get my reward (rez buff) for doing your job. Im not having a hissy fit, im simply not doing my job which is rez buff them when they are not doing their job to heal. Its a give and take type of thing.
Also, as i have said in eariler post, ijs, when i try to suggest something i normally get the classical responce stop telling me how to play my toon and im sick of it so i dont offer any suggestion anymore. I simply stop covering for the cleric.

If you think that to don't ress buff the clerics will make them play better you are wrong.

It's not how to teach and help people. Ress buff a cleric should be the first thing done and by not doing it you show that you don't know how to play your char or suck at it, good luck after that to tell them what they should do while yourself you don't do your job.

Buffing people is not a reward that should be earn, maybe the cleric think the same thing, maybe he think that healing is a reward of getting ress buff. Did you though of that?

I'm probably sure that the clerics buff you, but you don't buff them, nice ''give and take'', sincerely if I was on my cleric buffing a mystic that doesn't ress buff me I would not heal him and if he die I would for sure not rebuffing him.

To don't ress buff a cleric doesn't encourage him to heal, it's even worse, he will think that if he heal he might get heal aggro and die without ress buff. Did you think of that?

Let the cleric and your squad die if he don't heal is your choice, but to don't buff someone that buff you just prove that you are not better than them.

''Its a give and take type of thing.''

If the cleric buff you and you don't buff him than you just prove that your ''give and take'' thing is bull****.

ovenusarmanio · July 2013

You're a healer refusing to do your job and even rez buff the cleric, why should they heal and worry about getting aggro when you aren't doing your job? Maybe a different class is right for you, if you don't like to do the critical jobs for fear of having to heal on a healing class. Because you're creating situations in which a cleric in their right mind might not heal, refusing to communicate this plan, than placing the blame elsewhere. Just my two cents. I'd always rez buff the cleric, I would not let the squad wipe who have been protecting me and doing their jobs to spite the cleric. Which is all it is, since you're just taking from the rest of squad without giving them what they need in return. All to "teach a lesson" to a member you could have easily kicked. Also, as squad leader it is your job to communicate. When you then rez buff yourself first as if you're the one who is most important to get up during a fight. They may assume you're the one doing the healing and act accordingly. If your plan was airtight you wouldn't have a problem with communicating it at the start of the squad.

If a healer joins a squad and sees there is a second healer, there is no reason for them to not wonder which of you are healing. Even good newer players may not go by the "I R TANK" or "I R HEALZ" attitude, and look at whose is best suited to the job based no things like gear and class ability. Like if they way out gear you and feel the can contribute best a DD. Or if you out gear them, and they think to themselves his heals are stronger. It doesn't necessarily mean the person fails, and the playerbase in general needs to get better at communicating. All to often, runs are completely silent.

The I R HEALZ comes from when clerics were the only class that could heal. And just like two clerics joining a squad would communicate with each other who was healing, the same should be happening when a mystic joins. The mystic is 9/10 going to the be one that DDs, but lack of communication is a failure by both parities. And you are just as much a healer as they are. Two healers join a squad, neither communicates who is healing, and then the squad wipes because they both DD. TBH if that was your explanation, I'd probably kick you and tell the cleric to heal or face getting kicked too. Since you started the not doing their job nonsense, when they first buffed and you refused to buff them. Besides, I wouldn't want to run with someone who was willing to punish me just to spite someone else, even though I haven't done anything wrong and have given my all to the squad. I'd rather a fail I can maybe teach, than someone being purposefully spiteful and getting me killed on purpose.

Older players in general, don't want to adapt. And would rather complain that not everyone fits inside their box that is only there because that's what they are accustomed to and not because it's necessary. OFC this is more a minor nitpick than some of the fail things newer players do. But older players as a general group are not perfect either. Nobody or nothing is, OFC.

Other things that have changed.

Barbs are not always going to be the tank
Sometimes that other healer (mystic) would be a better choice to heal, just like BMs are sometimes a better choice to tank
There is no needed class, we have enough different types of toon now that everyone class has a substitute for the most part. And often, waiting around for one particular thing is a waste of time. Yes, yes there are situations when it is worth to wait or you might need them for this toon with that gear, but for the most part this is true.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · July 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

If you think that to don't ress buff the clerics will make them play better you are wrong.

It's not how to teach and help people. Ress buff a cleric should be the first thing done and by not doing it you show that you don't know how to play your char or suck at it, good luck after that to tell them what they should do while yourself you don't do your job.

Buffing people is not a reward that should be earn, maybe the cleric think the same thing, maybe he think that healing is a reward of getting ress buff. Did you though of that?

I'm probably sure that the clerics buff you, but you don't buff them, nice ''give and take'', sincerely if I was on my cleric buffing a mystic that doesn't ress buff me I would not heal him and if he die I would for sure not rebuffing him.

To don't ress buff a cleric doesn't encourage him to heal, it's even worse, he will think that if he heal he might get heal aggro and die without ress buff. Did you think of that?

Let the cleric and your squad die if he don't heal is your choice, but to don't buff someone that buff you just prove that you are not better than them.

''Its a give and take type of thing.''

If the cleric buff you and you don't buff him than you just prove that your ''give and take'' thing is bull****.

Harsh... but quoted for truth!

Christona - Raging Tide · July 2013

I always rez buff everyone at the beginning, myself being the last one unless i had it on from b4 all.the members were together. I suppose im.old fashioned that when i wc for cleric the assumption is that they are going to heal. Didnt know clerics are now qualified as a dd role in squads.
The reason i have stopped healing is because, every time i do so, the cleric heals less thinking i will heal more and that what in my original post. I got blamed for taking over the healing job and wasting the clerics mp by over healing so i quit healing all together so the cleric doesnt think im taking his/her job of healing.
I decided to stop rez buffing the cleric when the cleric is dding and not healing aka letting the charmed barb tick tick and making him chat for heals which normally turns into achb spam feast
Now, if kicking would make a cleric better, which in my times in doing so, they just pm u raging about it, i would. But the way ppl learn is experience. Just like u tell a lil kid 100 times not touch the stove cu its hot, most dont learn til they touch it. Maybe with ur status on ur sever, ppl listen but im just another face in mine.
As i recall, when i was fcing on my cleric, i learned not what to do by dieing and having the squad wipe.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · July 2013

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

I decided to stop rez buffing the cleric when the cleric is dding and not healing aka letting the charmed barb tick tick and making him chat for heals which normally turns into achb spam feast

Wow if I was a barb and the cleric is not healingl I would think he suck, but if the mystic voluntary let my charm tick over and over again I would leave the squad and KOS that mystic.

I don't know why, but all mystics from RT that post on forum seems to be incompetent and they blame other people for that.

You should maybe stick on playing your cleric.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver · July 2013

When will people realise that in a lot of situations a mystic is a better healer than a cleric... A mystic can heal and DD at the same time so it is like having 6 people DDing whereas if a cleric is healing you are left with just 5. A cleric can be a genuine DD and shouldn't be discounted in this role, sure the damage doesn't quite match up with some other classes but with violet dance + mark of weakness they can add a lot to the squad dynamics.

As a cleric main it must have rubbed off to my mystic because I will heal when ever the situation calls for it even if there is a cleric in the squad. Sometimes people just need to suck it up for the good of the squad and put their own egos out the window. If I was that barb and the mystic and cleric were not healing then I would have left. It really is not hard to put down healing plants, throw in the odd falling petals and DD away. Sure the cleric that you described is not one I would like to be around if they don't listen to instructions and let peoples charms tick and/or die.

On the point on not rez buffing the cleric are you really that petty? Sure you may think you are punishing the cleric but you are also likely to be punishing the whole squad. The cleric may die, squad may wipe, squad has to wait for the cleric to return.

So glad that I can solo most things so don't have to worry about all these new players being in squads with me... But at least when I do I make sure the squad lives no matter what I think of some of them as a person or how they play.

Mazumii - Dreamweaver · July 2013

i been main healer in fc since i was lvl80 mystic, squad never died unless they pulled agro from the tank or got exploded by the 1st boss. when i form fc, i tell ppl that im main healer and if they have any doubts just do one run with me and after let me know, I also take advice from ppl, now that im 94 i constaly warp shield everyone and when the puller pulls i use falling petals and agneis sheild (or however it spelled) on the puller and 9/10 times the puller lives unless i lag or the puller lags. and when i form squads I ask for sin, bm/puller, and tank...i prefer not to have psychics or wizzies cos they tend to seem cocky and pull agro. if there is a cleric I let them dd unless they want to heal. same if there is another mystic I ask them to help heal but they dont have too. so far anything a cleric can do I can pretty much except for the buffs, i havent done ws or lunar/nirvy yet (nirvi is pointless anyway) but even in tt run up to 3-1 i have no problems healing the squad and taking over the role of a cleric, plus ikm not some c0cky elf either.

Miss_menace - Raging Tide · July 2013

HexiKiss - Harshlands wrote: »

Oh good God I feel bad for you. However I do agree with you the new clerics are not the brightest bunch. Ihad a similar experience a few weeks ago in bh59. I was running on an assassin alt of min. In squad we had a cleric, veno,me,barb,bm and a wizard. The first boss we had was Quinji or what ever its name is. Luckily it was wined so not much mobs to deal with. At the boss however the freaking cleric puts up BB...I'm like okay maybe they're afk or something. So we move on to next.boss think it was zimo. We encounter some stray monsters and cleric yells 'wait I don't have BB ready'. I came to a halt and said we don't need BB just use Ironheart on who's taking damage. The world stopped for me I swear he said 'I don't use that I left it at 1 BB is better.' I didn't know whether to drop squad and kill him.or run into zimo and kill myself. So I calmly told.him it's his most important heal along with WS which he didn't even bother to get. Needless to say it was back and forth banter with him telling me I must fail at the game and have never played a cleric before. I I simply said I have a lvl88 cleric main who unlike you I didn't DC or hyper. With that I left squad an killed em -_-.
Something is in the water and most definitely lodged in some of their brains. He was the only one put of a few to argue that way. The others I'd encountered simply were new at the game an didn't know what forums were or it was just their first time in general. I think we need like a master/apprentice thing here.

OMG i shoulda came to this cleric discussion board ages ago. You want to see a completely ridiculous discussion about the necessity of clerics to BB and have cloud eruption on their genie so they can put their bb up when it goes down?

Check out the discussion aptly called "Plevel noobs"... it has exploded into a whole discussion about the lack of quality clerics and how other classes view our present veteran clerics today.

I came here because frankly, I'm tired of making my point there. I want to talk to the real pros... the one who analyzes when BB is necessary.

I'm home! \o/

tweakz wrote: »

This is what you stated in the OP:

-Two different stories.

Honestly, i think you're missing her point entirely. Read the post with those isolated clips in context with what she's saying and maybe it'll make more sense.

To the OP: It's a bit of a double-edged sword. You had a natural inclination to heal which is fine... i mean... i suck at my sin because at heart im a BM! Imagine that.

But if i was the cleric in that squad and I saw that the mystic was taking care of the healing, I would feel a little license to be able to DD a little more.

The problem is that in squad, there's two games going on... the battle on the screen, and the battle of trying to read what other's are thinking and then adjusting. The second game I think often gets in the way of the first one.

I sympathize with you, but at the same time... I giggle at the fact that you can take take the girl out of the cleric and put her in a mystic... but apparently you can't take the cleric out of the girl. b:laugh

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Well it depend, if I run with my faction/friends no, but with random squads there's always stupid people that need to be told what to do, so yes often in random squads people need someone to lead (I prefer the word lead than boss)..

Wow bella, you must be a bucket full of sunshine on your server. b:surrender

(just in case you can't tell, im being sarcastic. Stay out of my squads please.)

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · July 2013

Miss_menace - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wow bella, you must be a bucket full of sunshine on your server. b:surrender

(just in case you can't tell, im being sarcastic. Stay out of my squads please.)

I never had bad feedbacks or complains on how I make squads or lead them when needed, I'm even always complimented.

The only time a squad complained about me as squad leader for a decision I took was in a BH79, after waiting 25 minutes (not exaggerating) at the first boss for one person, I decided to kick the person and to start the boss, people told me that I was selfish and impatient, I'm sorry, but waiting 25 minutes at a boss for one person that of course didn't help to clear since wasn't there is not selfish and impatient, there's people that kick for less than that, I saw squad's leader kick people for going afk 2 minutes, kicking people if they wasn't in the cave in 5 minutes, kick people that don't do their job without even a warning, that kick people that doesn't speak English in the squad chat, people that don't invite back people that DC, that kick someone from the squad in the middle of the instance to invite a friend, while the person that got kick did nothing wrong.

I don't kick people out of nowhere, if someone do something wrong, I'll just just put in a suggestion what they should do like ''You should maybe try to do it that way, it will maybe help you.

'', if they continue to do wrong than I'll say less nicely ''Hey I took you in squad for that, can't you pls do it, thank you.'' and if really the person continue than I'll warn that if they continue I'll kick them and will replace with someone else.

There's a difference between people that are just inexperienced and people that are just bad, often when someone do something for the first time they even ask ''I never did that, can you please tell me what to do and when, thank you.'', but for people that are bad you don't have choice to say something or they risk to make the squad fail or get wipe. Often before I ''suggest'' the person what to do I get the other members pming me ''Kick him pls he suck.'', so I think I'm a good leader to let a chance to the person to ''wake up'' and start to do his job.

Having leadership is not a flaw. Everyone that told me I had leadership in life or in game said it as a compliment.

Maybe on PVE servers it's less important since all you do it's PVE, but on PVP servers we do TW and group PVP and we need people to lead that, to coordinate that so they can win. Imagine a faction without leader, a TW without people leading squad. The only difference in PVE it's you fight mobs/boss, but that doesn't mean people doesn't need to be lead by moments.

Leading people is to guide them in what to do, it's not to force them to obey you, there's a difference between be a lead and a dictator.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · July 2013

what's wrong with coordinating a squad? the best squads i've had are the ones that had someone to decide on a tactic, not the ones that everyone runs around like headless chickens.

ovenusarmanio · July 2013

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

what's wrong with coordinating a squad? the best squads i've had are the ones that had someone to decide on a tactic, not the ones that everyone runs around like headless chickens.

I so agree with this! The best ones are ones that communicate and coordinate together. Communication can make up for so many other problems.

SkogDyr - Lost City · July 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I so agree with this! The best ones are ones that communicate and coordinate together. Communication can make up for so many other problems.

QFT!

Back in the good old days, before fish and moles, the entire squad needed to get their **** together before a run in FC.

EPs would talk to the barb and ask them where they wanted the bb's... asked them to hold up before a major pull for some IH lovin'.

Even the DD's would ask the EP if they were ready before they went Leroy Jenkins on a group of mobs.

Now with two more races in the mix, a simple chat before a run would solve 99.9% of issues. As an EP main, if there is another healer in party, I only need to ask if they are more comfortable as DD or healer, that tells me where my priorities are to be focused.

I can relate in a way with the poster about falling into EP mode on a mystic. Been there, done that. I guess playing EP from the beginning makes old habits die hard. However, if I'm on my mystic and the EP switches to DD mode, I have no problem healing. But if it is a situation that the EP would be better for that part of the run, I will pm the EP and explain my POV. I would expect no less from a mystic if I was the EP on the run.

Simple convo would solve most the issues. b:surrender

Just my $0.02.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · July 2013

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

... seeing as you never have played one from your own signature, you have really dont know what i orginally was getting at.

Mystic is only level 98. b:surrender
My signature refers to me not being as proficient as I'd like. I've been feeding my exp into my genie for months now avoiding getting to 100 because I don't want to become... well,... you. Inefficient in my class to the point that I complain about others not covering heals/dd for me. The only boss in FCC that might have issues with mystic healing is the second boss and bubbles (although I've yet to have a problem solo healing FCC, really). In many other instances I've had mystics pm my cleric and ask "can I solo heal this instance for practice?" and I think that's great. Even the level 100 BHs that a cleric is "required" can be healed by a proficient mystic and I'd like to be to that level prior to getting to 100.

There are a few benchmarks I aim for.
Level 30: Know your grinding skills and the basics of your class. Start learning squad skills and some comfort with the class.
Level 50: Know your squad skill and work on teamwork. Know your roll and how to support squadmates.
Level 79: Know all your skills, pretty much inside and out.
Level 85: Be proficient. You don't have to be the best but you should know how to react in certain situations, no matter how adverse they are.
Level 89: Sage/demon and the different playstyles and options for both. Will this change your playstyle?
Level 100: Become fluid. Knowing how to react vs Reacting are two different things. You shouldn't have to think to react properly as it should have become a reflex. Cleric's and mystics are probably the hardest classes to get this on since you are typically reading and reacting to what Tanks and DDs do. BMs too, since you have so many options.

I think by level 100 you should have made all the mistakes. I'm still making mine which is why I don't want to level yet. I'm okay on mystic, but I like to spend a week or two solid playing the class making combos and reactions second nature to me, and I've yet to put time aside for that. I welcome advice and openly invite conversations on what I'm doing wrong or "would this work better" scenarios. After 100 I like to speed things up and be a bit kamikaze

There are alot of concerns that FCC creates hyper nubs, that don't know how to *QQ ad nauseum* but I actually think its a valuable instance for several reasons, one of them is pointed out in the previous post: Communication. Back before people were as well geared as they are today coordination was required. This meant communicating and preplanning your pulls. With weaker tank it also means building quicker reflexes. Its an instance that gets repeated 40+ times by level 100 for many of us so it's a great way to measure your character growth. It's one of the best instances to practice zhenning. It also has 6 relatively high hp bosses who have more versatility than the BH20-89 bosses so there is training there. It has 2 magic halls and 3 physical pulls that should be done slightly differently.

Still, the most important thing you should take away from FCC is if you're not sure how things are going to happen then communicate. I feel like I've trolled the OP because rather than communicate they acted a bit petty and then came and QQd on forums instead of solved the problem in game, which would have been the best solution.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · July 2013

QFT. the only talk in FC now is for deciding who pulls and where to set up vortex.

The thing is, most of my best FC runs were completely silent because everyone but me was an alt and I pretty much knew what to do on my archer by the time I started FC.

Among random squads though; yea people need to talk.

worries about the cleric class

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