worries about the cleric class

Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear

This thread is making me sad. A bunch of you are accusing the mystic of causing the issues when it is clearly the cleric's problem in this case. If you are not supplying sufficient heals, the mystic should help of course, but if the mystic is doing a good job, you don't just stop all together. That's ridiculous. There are very few times when I would say a cleric should start DD'ing in pve. Many powerleveled players are not as familiar with their classes, so you should help explain that to them if you are stuck in a squad with them.

Mystics are good healers, but if you have a cleric, they should be doing the majority of the healing. Furthermore, why does anyone think clerics would ever need to DD in FF. There are no timed bosses, so a cleric should never feel the need to help attack.

In summation, don't blaming the mystic for anything, and clerics do your jobs.

tweakz

ON_oFF - Lost City wrote: »

A mystic is a backup healer only...they are not designed to be a main healer

- Nothing someone else hasn't already said. Is there a source of this, or are you guys making this up?

Christona - Raging Tide

tweakz wrote: »

- Nothing someone else hasn't already said. Is there a source of this, or are you guys making this up?

Its more of common sense...

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

Its more of common sense...

This.

Clerics have like what 6 attacks and 6 heals. We also have buffs which mystics dont have, so yeah it is common sense that mystics are suppose to be backup healers.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

ON_oFF - Lost City wrote: »

A mystic is a backup healer only...they are not designed to be a main healer..but your right, they can be main healer..

paradox much? or did the mystics **** the code and they can now be main healers? in any case, only thing that matters is if someone can do something, not what's Pan Gu's master plan

Desdi - Sanctuary

Break in the Clouds, Comforting Mist, Fallen Petals, Gaia's Blessing, Healing Herb, Vital Herb. This is as many heals as a Cleric has and Salvation's buffs can replace Cleric buffs under certain conditions. Ressurect can replace Revive under certain conditions.

Mystics can't handle as much as a Cleric does and it makes sense, people would QQ about Clerics being replaced otherwise (wouldn't blame them) but I don't see how a Mystic is "not designed to be main healer".

I'm not saying I'm gonna force a Mystic to heal if they don't want to but they are as much of a healing class as Clerics are and they can be as good, if not better in some cases.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Break in the Clouds, Comforting Mist, Fallen Petals, Gaia's Blessing, Healing Herb, Vital Herb. This is as many heals as a Cleric has and Salvation's buffs can replace Cleric buffs under certain conditions. Ressurect can replace Revive under certain conditions.

You forgot Swinging Cloud Dance.

tweakz

When people have to refer to common sense here; I think they lost the argument.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

You forgot Swinging Cloud Dance.

I had a feeling I was forgetting something Dx

Eoria - Harshlands

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

probably Eo could do it cause she's a great cleric

Yes, I can. But really, I'd much rather be solo-healing an instance on cleric rather than mystic for a variety of reasons.

kwalamra wrote: »

I play a 101 cleric and am pure so am a great healer but I have been thinking of restating for survival because I can't withstand 1 hit from a pk player. If we regenerated chi or had speed but it uses all but 1/2 of a chi to stun 3 times to try to get away and with 3 stun breakers and blockers I don't stand a chance.
If we had some defense against a sin just popping up and stunning us against another just domain through our stun then 1 shooting or anything besides maybe but seriously we mostly have to stay in safe zone or die.
I really don't mind another player having to use pots to part heal self if it means I don't have to get spam killed by sins in stealth 22 times.

If you would post what your gear looks like on a calc and what skills your genie has, we can help you out if you wish.

Niob - Harshlands

I'm worried that I might be a noob cleric myself f:sweat So far about all the squads I were in to do FBs included at least one person around 100lvl who pretty much soloed the dungeon. My presence there was entirely optional. Since I didn't have the occassion to learn what to do by trial and error, I only know that I should buff whoever I feel like buffing, use IH on whoever loses HP and keep away from mobs. I don't have any idea about things like stealing aggro or how to avoid an aoe.
Edit: btw I have no idea why my lvl is shown as 49, it's 59 actually. f:sweat

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Niob - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm worried that I might be a noob cleric myself f:sweat So far about all the squads I were in to do FBs included at least one person around 100lvl who pretty much soloed the dungeon. My presence there was entirely optional. Since I didn't have the occassion to learn what to do by trial and error, I only know that I should buff whoever I feel like buffing, use IH on whoever loses HP and keep away from mobs. I don't have any idea about things like stealing aggro or how to avoid an aoe.
Edit: btw I have no idea why my lvl is shown as 49, it's 59 actually. f:sweat

Everyone should be buffed all the time.

For the stealing aggro usually it's the high DD that can do it, at your lvl it happen less cause people are not APS yet, but usually it can be sin, bm and archer, so if you have any of them in your squad keep a eye on them. You cannot avoid AOE all you can do it's to deal with it.

Eventually you will get bh69 to do which in my opinion is the best experience ever for a cleric since the boss are AOE, you need to purify at the good moment and you can't use BB, so when you will be at the lvl for bh69 do not skip them even if it's hard cause that would be your best experience, once you can do bh69 without any problem you will be good to do everything.

Kanmi - Sanctuary

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

For the stealing aggro usually it's the high DD that can do it

Healing aggro

tweakz

Niob - Harshlands wrote: »

My presence there was entirely optional.

Every good player will push or test their limitations, and a cleric with res is convenient for that. Also; most of the value of the cleric comes from buffs.

I don't have any idea about things like stealing aggro or how to avoid an aoe.

Venomancers learn about aggro faster than other classes because of the tank/ heal role in one. Clerics can share equips with venomancers.

Aggro is a combination of dmg, debuffs, and skills specifically designed for aggro used for the purpose of directing a mob/bosses focus on the wannabe tank.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Kanmi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Healing aggro

She didn't say healing agrro.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

She didn't say healing agrro.

Correct, however she also didn't say that it wasn't healing agro. Healing can also steal agro in the situation where someone runs up to mobs (gets proximity agro) doesn't hit any/all of them and then the cleric heals therefore "stealing agro". This is an important thing that a lot of low levels don't understand when healing DD's running up to mobs/bosses.

Kanmi - Sanctuary

SMASHnHEAL pretty much explain it already . I correct you on that part, cause she is low level and she did say that she doesnt know anything about stealing aggro,so that's the only way they can steal aggro from people even high level .
That's usually one of the first thing, you should learn about when you are low level, healing generate aggro .

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Kanmi - Sanctuary wrote: »

SMASHnHEAL pretty much explain it already . I correct you on that part, cause she is low level and she did say that she doesnt know anything about stealing aggro,so that's the only way they can steal aggro from people even high level .
That's usually one of the first thing, you should learn about when you are low level, healing generate aggro .

She maybe mean people stealing aggro on boss (ping ping aggro), maybe she don't even know that clerics (mystics) can steal aggro by healing.

Kanmi - Sanctuary

There is a lot of maybe on what she really meant... the thing is, stop thinking like a high level for 2 sec, and think like a level 59 cleric... what do you think she can experiment right now ?

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

I get the feeling this topic has been discussd ad nauseum already in other threads, lol.

Kanmi - Sanctuary

Always the same topic, vit/no vit, demon/sage, R9/R8 ... some people feel the need to get a reply over reading a whole thread, don't mind me i randomly pop up on cleric forum when i can't sleep or when i wanna see what's new around

Niob - Harshlands

Thanks for the tips, but I knew most of that already. What I mean is that I'm not sure if I'll be able to put this knowledge into good use when I'm expected to. I'm so worried about it especially since I occassionally get really high ping and I won't be able to act really quickly when the situation calls for it. And I really wouldn't be happy about letting a decent team die because of that.
But I didn't know that you can't avoid any aoes in this game, my boyfriend said you could avoid them in some games by standing behind the boss, but I didn't get to test it in pwi.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

Niob - Harshlands wrote: »

Thanks for the tips, but I knew most of that already. What I mean is that I'm not sure if I'll be able to put this knowledge into good use when I'm expected to. I'm so worried about it especially since I occassionally get really high ping and I won't be able to act really quickly when the situation calls for it. And I really wouldn't be happy about letting a decent team die because of that.
But I didn't know that you can't avoid any aoes in this game, my boyfriend said you could avoid them in some games by standing behind the boss, but I didn't get to test it in pwi.

It all depends on the the individual boss. Some bosses have a short range aoe that can be avoided at a certain range, others have a frontal aoe that like you said can be avoided if you are behind the boss. You will learn a lot more from playing the game, attempting new things, running with different people/classes than you ever will from reading this forum.

If you die it is not a big deal, if others die it is also not a big deal. If you feel you have made a mistake apologise, move on and learn for next time. I have issues with high ping all the time and will sometimes miss an important heal - if you are running with friends or a nice squad they will understand. As a cleric you need to grow somewhat of a thick skin b:victory

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Today i ran TT with a cleric in R9.3 + 12

Not once did he IH or BB. He just DDed and sometimes did one of those instant heal thingies. People died, he didnt seem to care because he can tank GBA himself.

pff, didnt even try suggesting to IH and/or BB, you know how open the average r9.3+12 is for suggestions from lesser geared people.....

Vespin - Harshlands

I just recently did a FC with one seeker and the rest clerics. I do admit that the newer generation including me could work out our kinks, but when I did this FC with 4 more clerics it was a lot of fun because we weren't really worried when we would die because everyone had a level 10 Rez. If we did we would only lose about .1% so we were playing around but we each had our own experiences and we all learned from each other like say I did BB before mobs came in and I pulled them all and died well then another person said wait 2 seconds when the mobs come in then start casting kinda thing and we all learned a lot from each other. I encourage getting together with a bunch of clerics and testing theories, trying different techniques and maybe even (this is going to sound kinda ****) but running kind of a clinic to work on skills. Maybe even have a fee to attend it will make you a little bit of money and then it gets some stimulation, maybe get some better clerics out there. If you know what I meanb:surrender

Vespin - Harshlands

As Bella said that she prefers having only 1 cleric and 5 DDs when only one cleric is needed, but, if you have a mystic you can have that DD output but can also lock into the healing role in almost an instant if things start to go south. I think that having a mystic that can do that would be a great add into a party and that is what i would pick to be one of my DDs and that is why I will pick a mystic for a second character because they have quite a bit of healing capabilities in hind sight and will be closer to what I usually play. Also I don't want to people to read this thread and think... "Oh I'm gonna play a mystic instead of a cleric because they are not as common and they have pets" that is not what I want people to do and with that. I'm going to leave you on that note

connorthamontser

f:angry This whole thread killed my brain... All im gonna say being one of the "new generation" of cleric is that a good one can DD - Debuff and heal all at the same time... In frost for example BR im usually healing tank/debuffing boss/killing hands and when it aoe hits 9times outta 10 everyone is healed withing seconds. I prefer having my squad at 100% hp rather than letting them die. As for mystics healing at the same time as me, i find it makes you become extremly lazy but having them lay down there aoe heals does help and is always welcomed! Its the new generation of seekers and BM's us clerics should worry about... Dear god the amount of times i die because they dont stun or aoe hit is actually unbelievable.. In a squad with 2 ep's most times i find that we stack heals DD and resume stacking heals... Must be something in the air on pve servers ijs xD!!

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

connorthamontser wrote: »

f:angry This whole thread killed my brain... All im gonna say being one of the "new generation" of cleric is that a good one can DD - Debuff and heal all at the same time...

This. This thread is full of wrong. Or maybe not "wrong" but invalid opinions that hurt my head. Thought I was done 3 weeks ago when I commented on the first page and didn't even bother responding to Tweakz little mystic pride rant.

People get locked into the "I R cleric. I heal." and "Barb R tank!" idiocy. We (should've) learned years ago that the barb isn't always the tank and sometimes cleric heals just aren't needed. I made a thread probably over a year ago suggesting ways for clerics to help their squads in a more indirect way rather than heal people who don't need spam healing. Paint and mystics were replacing us and there are other things we can do to be useful. Things like stacking prior to people attacking so that you can dd while your stack heals, or often a Dimensional Seal on a mob is just as good as actually healing a sin since the sins paint increases but it also makes the instance go faster.

Squad dynamics are fluid and more than one person can do different jobs. Back in the old day we used to do BH 51s with wizard heals just fine. Your cleric saw the squad dynamics change as you support healed more and more and so they picked up the slack of dd. Without communicating, you then apparently surprised them by changing the dynamics.

I'm guessing the other 4 people in your squad didn't care where their heals came from, they just wanted them. Btw, 88 mystic so probably an 80/90 FCC. I'd have just kicked both of you and gotten another dd or debuffer and let paint do the healing. It's much easier to survive when you know you don't have a healer then it is to expect heals and have people throwing hissy fits because they want to DD instead.

Communication would have solved everything. And Desdi said it best in post #26: maximizing the squads potential. If you can throw up plants for 60 seconds and that's all the heals the squad needs so you and the cleric can both DD then go for it. If you need bb/IH stacks/reliable purifies then the cleric should recognize it. I said in post #8 clerics can make better DD's (not saying they always are) and people took that as definitive. Depending on what the barb and bm are doing with devour or GS, a cleric supporting with seals will speed things up more than the DD difference between a cleric and mystic (35% seals vs 20% befuddling creeper debuffs). Also... people hate Gale Force and Thicket and 99% of the time I'd rather the mystic not even attack then "help" by scattering all the mobs and making it impossible for half the squad to aoe and then the mobs to not group up again as nicely as the barbs pull so no one can aoe all the mobs together, while cleric's have Tempest which is one of the hardest hitting skills in the game. Sure in a dps comparison mystic wins, but as a debuffer and single hitter cleric wins.

Be an adult and recognize they're adults, too, and can make their own decisions about what's efficient and possibly best for the squad. If you have a problem with it, communicate it politely.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

This. This thread is full of wrong. Or maybe not "wrong" but invalid opinions that hurt my head. Thought I was done 3 weeks ago when I commented on the first page and didn't even bother responding to Tweakz little mystic pride rant.

People get locked into the "I R cleric. I heal." and "Barb R tank!" idiocy. We (should've) learned years ago that the barb isn't always the tank and sometimes cleric heals just aren't needed. I made a thread probably over a year ago suggesting ways for clerics to help their squads in a more indirect way rather than heal people who don't need spam healing. Paint and mystics were replacing us and there are other things we can do to be useful. Things like stacking prior to people attacking so that you can dd while your stack heals, or often a Dimensional Seal on a mob is just as good as actually healing a sin since the sins paint increases but it also makes the instance go faster.

Squad dynamics are fluid and more than one person can do different jobs. Back in the old day we used to do BH 51s with wizard heals just fine. Your cleric saw the squad dynamics change as you support healed more and more and so they picked up the slack of dd. Without communicating, you then apparently surprised them by changing the dynamics.

I'm guessing the other 4 people in your squad didn't care where their heals came from, they just wanted them. Btw, 88 mystic so probably an 80/90 FCC. I'd have just kicked both of you and gotten another dd or debuffer and let paint do the healing. It's much easier to survive when you know you don't have a healer then it is to expect heals and have people throwing hissy fits because they want to DD instead.

Communication would have solved everything. And Desdi said it best in post #26: maximizing the squads potential. If you can throw up plants for 60 seconds and that's all the heals the squad needs so you and the cleric can both DD then go for it. If you need bb/IH stacks/reliable purifies then the cleric should recognize it. I said in post #8 clerics can make better DD's (not saying they always are) and people took that as definitive. Depending on what the barb and bm are doing with devour or GS, a cleric supporting with seals will speed things up more than the DD difference between a cleric and mystic (35% seals vs 20% befuddling creeper debuffs). Also... people hate Gale Force and Thicket and 99% of the time I'd rather the mystic not even attack then "help" by scattering all the mobs and making it impossible for half the squad to aoe and then the mobs to not group up again as nicely as the barbs pull so no one can aoe all the mobs together, while cleric's have Tempest which is one of the hardest hitting skills in the game. Sure in a dps comparison mystic wins, but as a debuffer and single hitter cleric wins.

Be an adult and recognize they're adults, too, and can make their own decisions about what's efficient and possibly best for the squad. If you have a problem with it, communicate it politely.

^All. Of. My. Yes. This. I hate mystics that seal pulls, especially on my sin or barb. On my barb it can be devastating to my chi gain. For barbs a lot of times the more things hitting you means you live a lot longer.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also... people hate Gale Force and Thicket

Depend why he do it, sometime GF is the best way to save people, even better than a heal.

I did a lunar last week and I'm telling you if I didn't used GF people would have died, I used it all the run and no one complained about it even the BM told me at the end ''Good job, without that we would have die many time.''

In GV/RB/Delta I can kill a wave in a few seconds, I never saw a sin do that, so I don't care if the sin is crying cause his single target move while I DD all mobs.

Not every class can have BP so unless you make a squad with only melee you need a healer, in FC class like wizz and archer get easy aggro and don't have bp, so unless you ask them to don't DD at all they need some heal to survive.

A lot of people don't even survive the second boss if they don't get purify by the cleric. I'm speaking about a legit run here, no boss glitching. Cause ofc a full squad of sins can solo glitch the FC without need a cleric, but other class do FC to lvl not just sins/melees.