worries about the cleric class

Christona - Raging Tide

So today, after not touching my mystic (88) or cleric for a week i went on my mystic to do an fc. b:laugh yeah ik i prolly heal too much since my cleric comes through on my mystic. So the squad was a good one. A barb, bm, sin, cleric, psy, and me. We did first two bosses fine no problems. I put up herbs and did some sot healing now and then. Bear with me i have a point to make. After that, the cleric slowly moved away from healing and went to dd. Of course i started to pick up his slack. By the second run i was main healer because he was dding. I got alittle annoyed. He went afk during **** boss and then we waiting 10 mins for him to come back b4 i was like ill heal the pull we can manage. He run right along with us... >.< never saying he was back...After that i quit healing and well lets say ppl started dieing.

I know i should just healed... but i couldnt. Practice makes perfect right?

This is only the most recent time.. there have been a lot more times this has happened.

Do new clerics not know how to heal? Is it our fault? The old clerics.. the ones that do know how..
I love the class of cleric dearly.. and this has been bothering me for quite awhile. but i seriously think our future clerics are going to ruin us.
If i try to offer advice, im an *******.. if i kick them im an ***.. ... the new clerics need help but idk what to do anymore.

HexiKiss - Harshlands

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

So today, after not touching my mystic (88) or cleric for a week i went on my mystic to do an fc. b:laugh yeah ik i prolly heal too much since my cleric comes through on my mystic. So the squad was a good one. A barb, bm, sin, cleric, psy, and me. We did first two bosses fine no problems. I put up herbs and did some sot healing now and then. Bear with me i have a point to make. After that, the cleric slowly moved away from healing and went to dd. Of course i started to pick up his slack. By the second run i was main healer because he was dding. I got alittle annoyed. He went afk during **** boss and then we waiting 10 mins for him to come back b4 i was like ill heal the pull we can manage. He run right along with us... >.< never saying he was back...After that i quit healing and well lets say ppl started dieing.

I know i should just healed... but i couldnt. Practice makes perfect right?

This is only the most recent time.. there have been a lot more times this has happened.

Do new clerics not know how to heal? Is it our fault? The old clerics.. the ones that do know how..
I love the class of cleric dearly.. and this has been bothering me for quite awhile. but i seriously think our future clerics are going to ruin us.
If i try to offer advice, im an *******.. if i kick them im an ***.. ... the new clerics need help but idk what to do anymore.

Oh good God I feel bad for you. However I do agree with you the new clerics are not the brightest bunch. Ihad a similar experience a few weeks ago in bh59. I was running on an assassin alt of min. In squad we had a cleric, veno,me,barb,bm and a wizard. The first boss we had was Quinji or what ever its name is. Luckily it was wined so not much mobs to deal with. At the boss however the freaking cleric puts up BB...I'm like okay maybe they're afk or something. So we move on to next.boss think it was zimo. We encounter some stray monsters and cleric yells 'wait I don't have BB ready'. I came to a halt and said we don't need BB just use Ironheart on who's taking damage. The world stopped for me I swear he said 'I don't use that I left it at 1 BB is better.' I didn't know whether to drop squad and kill him.or run into zimo and kill myself. So I calmly told.him it's his most important heal along with WS which he didn't even bother to get. Needless to say it was back and forth banter with him telling me I must fail at the game and have never played a cleric before. I I simply said I have a lvl88 cleric main who unlike you I didn't DC or hyper. With that I left squad an killed em -_-.
Something is in the water and most definitely lodged in some of their brains. He was the only one put of a few to argue that way. The others I'd encountered simply were new at the game an didn't know what forums were or it was just their first time in general. I think we need like a master/apprentice thing here.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

You should not have take his job, you should have told him to stop DD when you saw he started to DD.

There's not a lot of good clerics anymore, all you can do is lvl up, cause at lvl100 anyway 95% of clerics BB so you won't need to heal.

If people die cause the cleric was DDing than if they are smart they will know it was the cleric's fault and blame him, if they blame you than they are idiots.

Christona - Raging Tide

HexiKiss - Harshlands wrote: »

Oh good God I feel bad for you. However I do agree with you the new clerics are not the brightest bunch. Ihad a similar experience a few weeks ago in bh59. I was running on an assassin alt of min. In squad we had a cleric, veno,me,barb,bm and a wizard. The first boss we had was Quinji or what ever its name is. Luckily it was wined so not much mobs to deal with. At the boss however the freaking cleric puts up BB...I'm like okay maybe they're afk or something. So we move on to next.boss think it was zimo. We encounter some stray monsters and cleric yells 'wait I don't have BB ready'. I came to a halt and said we don't need BB just use Ironheart on who's taking damage. The world stopped for me I swear he said 'I don't use that I left it at 1 BB is better.' I didn't know whether to drop squad and kill him.or run into zimo and kill myself. So I calmly told.him it's his most important heal along with WS which he didn't even bother to get. Needless to say it was back and forth banter with him telling me I must fail at the game and have never played a cleric before. I I simply said I have a lvl88 cleric main who unlike you I didn't DC or hyper. With that I left squad an killed em -_-.
Something is in the water and most definitely lodged in some of their brains. He was the only one put of a few to argue that way. The others I'd encountered simply were new at the game an didn't know what forums were or it was just their first time in general. I think we need like a master/apprentice thing here.

If i try to say i have 101 cleric as a main, i normally get inaulted and then i dont get any heals after that. It fine on my mystic but my others alts have to use a lot of pots. Very few ppl can take any advice withouttbh becoming butthurt to it atleast on my sever. I just dont get why ppl roll a cleric to dd
Tbh i think its because clerics take 15 teles to find one that squads dont say nothing to them. I use to get yelled at for charm ticks yet alone someone dieing. It was tough but i love that they did it to me now
It made me the cleric i am today. Yeah a few times i wanted to quit, but hell it gave my foundation of healing. I think more ppl need to bh69. Thats where cleric have to be able ih and purify. My cleric was dragges into bh 69 at 60 to heal it.

tweakz

As a cleric I'd get offensive too if you were wasting my MP, and time by double healing rather than dd'ing. I'd probably say something in squad chat though. A mystic should be capable of healing a whole run as well, so I wouldn't fault the cleric here.

I don't blame new clerics for much. It's the ones I've known for years that are chromaspamming their way through stuff, dropping BB way to close to spawn in RB, and rolling with way too much vit to be able to heal anything properly.

Christona - Raging Tide

tweakz wrote: »

As a cleric I'd get offensive too if you were wasting my MP, and time by double healing rather than dd'ing. I'd probably say something in squad chat though. A mystic should be capable of healing a whole run as well, so I wouldn't fault the cleric here.

I don't blame new clerics for much. It's the ones I've known for years that are chromaspamming their way through stuff, dropping BB way to close to spawn in RB, and rolling with way too much vit to be able to heal anything properly.

My mystic can solo heal an fc easy. With a +5 aquadash he should be pumping out dd in a 80 to 90 fc. If the barb is about to go down on slasher imma heal him back to full hp and then go back to dding.
Futher more your blaming me for taking over healing because was being a metal mager? As a cleric for my main, its my instinct to heal ppl. Just like in this fc i was talking about, the cleric was spamming chb on messanger. I pm saying just ih the barb and chb after aoe. Not only was he spamming chb.. it couldnt heal my hp to full. 4.4k hp buffed. His chb was healing roughly 1k. The barb was dieing even with my healing herb going. So what was i suppose to do? Let the barb die cuz of the nooby cleric? No, i stepped in and healed the barb to full hp on the first run and put pedals n him for some hot. Dont blame me for saving the squad. If i see you a cleric can heal solo, i wont heal or i will only put healing herb down just provide minor aoe healing.

And thats why there are clerics that are still spamming chb because noone will say anything to them about not. I have tried to say something even in pms so the cleric doesnt feel like a noob to the whole squad i try to be polite and kind but i always get a hurtful pm back. It is the clerics fault period. If the mystic didnt see a reason for healing they wouldnt.

tweakz

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

If the barb is about to go down on slasher imma heal him back to full hp and then go back to dding.
Futher more your blaming me for taking over healing because was being a metal mager?

This is what you stated in the OP:

We did first two bosses fine no problems. I put up herbs and did some sot healing now and then. Bear with me i have a point to make. After that, the cleric slowly moved away from healing and went to dd.

-Two different stories.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Trying to look at it from the cleric's perspective. They had a mystic that was double healing and doing their job for them but wasn't DDing as much as they could because they were so busy trying to be a healer. I think for the cleric he saw the DD job was open since the mystic wasn't doing it (and cleric's really can make better DD's than mystics) and so he stepped into it. Similar things happen all the time when there are two cleric's in squad.

Another thing to note is different clerics have different comfort zones with their squads hp. Some cleric's insist everyone in their squad is healed to 100%. I have a friend, excellent cleric, but he likes to let me get almost dead before he gives me a big SoR heal then he goes back to DDing. I personally make sure my tank is fully healed, and usually stacked, then focus on my casters. Anyone with paint can usually heal themselves or its a caster getting tiny aoe magic attacks while they rip up the HA and LAs I'll focus on others first and expect them to pot or get healed later. Drives me nuts when I am franticly trying to keep 3 or 4 players alive and someone who is hardly taking any damage wants me to focus on them like I'm a pot-service, but thats another discussion. Anyways, different players have different hp comfort zone and maybe he didn't feel people were needing heals yet but you did.

On the subject of new clerics: New cleric's do not know how to stack before a pull. It makes a huge difference if I go to invoke/vortex/aoe and have 100% hp because I was stacked vs having 50% hp because I wasn't. Pots can't always keep up with the damage people are taking, and we may have other plans for our genies than using ToP. We may also be able to survive fine once we're aoeing with paint heals or once we're invoked but an IH lasts 15 seconds and will get us to that comfortable point and so many clerics neglect that. They stand there and wait for you to move while you stand there and wait for them to stack.

Christona - Raging Tide

The

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Trying to look at it from the cleric's perspective. They had a mystic that was double healing and doing their job for them but wasn't DDing as much as they could because they were so busy trying to be a healer. I think for the cleric he saw the DD job was open since the mystic wasn't doing it (and cleric's really can make better DD's than mystics) and so he stepped into it. Similar things happen all the time when there are two cleric's in squad.

Another thing to note is different clerics have different comfort zones with their squads hp. Some cleric's insist everyone in their squad is healed to 100%. I have a friend, excellent cleric, but he likes to let me get almost dead before he gives me a big SoR heal then he goes back to DDing. I personally make sure my tank is fully healed, and usually stacked, then focus on my casters. Anyone with paint can usually heal themselves or its a caster getting tiny aoe magic attacks while they rip up the HA and LAs I'll focus on others first and expect them to pot or get healed later. Drives me nuts when I am franticly trying to keep 3 or 4 players alive and someone who is hardly taking any damage wants me to focus on them like I'm a pot-service, but thats another discussion. Anyways, different players have different hp comfort zone and maybe he didn't feel people were needing heals yet but you did.:

On the subject of new clerics: New cleric's do not know how to stack before a pull. It makes a huge difference if I go to invoke/vortex/aoe and have 100% hp because I was stacked vs having 50% hp because I wasn't. Pots can't always keep up with the damage people are taking, and we may have other plans for our genies than using ToP. We may also be able to survive fine once we're aoeing with paint heals or once we're invoked but an IH lasts 15 seconds and will get us to that comfortable point and so many cleric neglect that. They stand there and wait for you to move while you stand there and wait for them to stack.

First, when the comfort fpr u to start healing is when the barb is potting nonstop theres a few things to say about that. Look at it from.a clerics perspective? I have a cleric as mu main i see everything from a clerics perspective. Clerics are better dds since when? Thats the first time i have heard that. See this is what annoys me. Its still the mystics fault since the mystic covered the clerics *** so there wouldnt be a wipe. This is why clerics suck *** anymore. The blame goes onto other ppl but ill take note of the comfort zones if that means mine turns into ppl being dead to start healing on mystic ppl can live xD it really pisses me off that a cleric is now excused for sucking and i get blamed for saving the squad. God this makes me want to delete my cleric..its pittyful to say the least. I cant believe I'm going to say this but clerics need to be treated worse it made us better when we were treated like ****.
But thanks for clearing it up ill make sure to not to heal since im forcing clerics to dd. Lets see how many squad wipes i get fc now...

Eoria - Harshlands

Mystic DD will be greater than cleric DD overall when we're talking PVE. ijs.

tweakz

My cleric and mystic share all the same equips. Cleric is better dd? -lmao: NO.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

It's not about cleric be better or worse DD than mystic, cleric's job should be to heal, mystic or not in squad. Unless for some reasons they agree before the run that the mystic will be main healer and the cleric DD. As a mystic should not overheal and should not take the cleric's job when there's a cleric in squad.

Many times on my cleric I need to tell the mystic in squad to stop overheal for nothing and to do his job of DD and to DD, as many time on my mystic I need to ask the cleric to stop DDing and do his job of keep the squad alive.

tweakz

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

It's not about cleric be better or worse DD than mystic, cleric's job should be to heal, mystic or not in squad. Unless for some reasons they agree before the run that the mystic will be main healer and the cleric DD. As a mystic should not overheal and should not take the cleric's job when there's a cleric in squad.

Many times on my cleric I need to tell the mystic in squad to stop overheal for nothing and to do his job of DD and to DD, as many time on my mystic I need to ask the cleric to stop DDing and do his job of keep the squad alive.

So your job is boss?

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

tweakz wrote: »

So your job is boss?

Well it depend, if I run with my faction/friends no, but with random squads there's always stupid people that need to be told what to do, so yes often in random squads people need someone to lead (I prefer the word lead than boss).

I stopped to play cleric as main to reroll mystic and I didn't done that to heal behind a cleric that DD, if I wanted to be a main healer I would have stay on my cleric, I would have not bother to learn a other class and gear up to do the same job, so yes I expect clerics in squad to heal.

tweakz

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Well it depend, if I run with my faction/friends no, but with random squads there's always stupid people that need to be told what to do, so yes often in random squads people need someone to lead (I prefer the word lead than boss).

I stopped to play cleric as main to reroll mystic and I didn't done that to heal behind a cleric that DD, if I wanted to be a main healer I would have stay on my cleric, I would have not bother to learn a other class and gear up to do the same job, so yes I expect clerics in squad to heal.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but mystic is as much a healer as cleric. Also I have an alternate perspective: stupid people tell my cleric where to put Regeneration Aura in RB with their sole argument as either "it's where I put it with my cleric" or "it's not as safe but it's faster". -Both invalid arguments by people who *think* themselves leaders or smarter.

Christona - Raging Tide

tweakz wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but mystic is as much a healer as cleric. Also I have an alternate perspective: stupid people tell my cleric where to put Regeneration Aura in RB with their sole argument as either "it's where I put it with my cleric" or "it's not as safe but it's faster". -Both invalid arguments by people who *think* themselves leaders or smarter.

Mystics have always been a back up healer. Yeah a good mystic can heal everything a cleric heals but mystics arent suppose to be out healing a cleric whose main function in this game is to heal. Having lvled my cleric from 85 with fc, i know what to do on her, it is so much easier heal anything on her than my mystic and way less mana drain sometimes bb placement does matter as in snake in warsong. On stairs is where snakes aoe stun doesnt effect the cleric so there is no bb interruption making it easier.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

tweakz wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but mystic is as much a healer as cleric.

Majority of instances doesn't requisite 2 healers, having 2 healers when only one is enough is a waste of a DD spot. It's more productive to have 1 healer and 5 DD than 2 healers and 4 DD. (My opinion)

It also depend of what people ask for, if I see someone world chat asking for DD and a tank for BH and I get invite (on mystic) then I assume that either I'm take as DD or tank, but not as healer so I should not need to heal, if the cleric is DDing while people need heal and die than the cleric is the one not doing his job since I was take as tank/DD so yes I think I'm in right to ask the cleric to do his job.

On my mystic I only answer at 2 call, DD or main healer, the only instance I see people take a second healer is AEU, I never see people ask for a second healer for BH, so if the person world chat for a tank and DD that mean the ''post'' of healer is fill and I should not have to heal. I'm not totally **** if I see the cleric struggle with healing I'll support heal, I won't let die people, but I will support at the condition the cleric is trying to do his job, if the cleric is DDing than no I won't support that since I didn't agree to come as healer, but as DD.

tweakz wrote: »

Also I have an alternate perspective: stupid people tell my cleric where to put Regeneration Aura in RB with their sole argument as either "it's where I put it with my cleric" or "it's not as safe but it's faster". -Both invalid arguments by people who *think* themselves leaders or smarter.

There's a difference between say to someone what to do and tell someone to do his job. Be honest with me tweakz, if you are in GV/RB/Delta on your cleric in BB and the mystic just spam Comforting mist over and over again without DDing you won't tell him to DD? You will let him overheal your BB without a word? What would be your reaction? Drop BB and stand there? Drop BB and start DDing?

Personally I would say ''Can you pls stop overhealing and DD, we took you as DD not as healer, thank you.''. Call that like you want, but I think that saying that to someone is not trying to act smarter, it's just communication to get the squad working at his full potential. Of course there's a way to say it, the first time I'll ask politely I won't say ''You stupid idiot do your job!!!''. Lead doesn't absolutely mean to be rude or act superior.

ovenusarmanio

tweakz wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but mystic is as much a healer as cleric. Also I have an alternate perspective: stupid people tell my cleric where to put Regeneration Aura in RB with their sole argument as either "it's where I put it with my cleric" or "it's not as safe but it's faster". -Both invalid arguments by people who *think* themselves leaders or smarter.

We agree on something for once...I think the only reasons mystics with clearly inferior DD get away with going "well it's the clerics job" even though they could heal just as well and would be better off healing the squad while the cleric DD is because mystics came out later. So now people feel entitled to DD while cleric heals, even when they should be the ones healing. Instead of discussing it and comparing each other to determine who is better for that instance to heal, and who would be better off DD'ing. Personally, I'd prefer if two healers got into a squad they'd be capable of comparing gear and determing what heals are going to be needed and promoted the person who is going to DD better to the role of DD. This is usually the mystic, granted, but when I see mystic with very inferior gear DD'ing while the cleric heals because "clerics heal," it makes me facepalm. A person's job in squad should be to maximize their potential in squad. I haven't done BH100 in a long time for example, but I do remember seeing clerics healing in R9 gear with great refines healing while some r8/tt99 mix mystic DD'ed. And were not even good. And I did not see the point in that.

It's also funny because there a lot of mystics who will rage if you dare suggest clerics are better healers than them. Telling you constantly about how they heal as good or better than a cleric the majority of the time. And then when you say "great, then heal!" they go "I'm not a healer," which means you are actually far worse than a cleric IMO. Because refusing to heal is less heals than even the worse chromatic spamming cleric. But I've seen a lot of mystics refuse to do any healing even when the cleric is terrible and clearly should just metal mage or gtfo of squad, and then insist they are good healers. Good healers, actually heal. I'd rather take the chromatic spamming cleric than them. At least they are trying, even if they are sucky. Something is better than nothing. Although given the choice I'd rather not have either in squad.

But I don't think that is the norm, and normally the mystic should be the one DD'ing. Probably the majority of the time, probably about 90% of the time maybe. I do think it merits a discussion though because mystics are just as much healers as clerics. And the one with the better DD should be the one DDing. Usually, that will be the mystic but not always. So it shouldn't be automatically the clerics job.

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

So today, after not touching my mystic (88) or cleric for a week i went on my mystic to do an fc. b:laugh yeah ik i prolly heal too much since my cleric comes through on my mystic. So the squad was a good one. A barb, bm, sin, cleric, psy, and me. We did first two bosses fine no problems. I put up herbs and did some sot healing now and then. Bear with me i have a point to make. After that, the cleric slowly moved away from healing and went to dd. Of course i started to pick up his slack. By the second run i was main healer because he was dding. I got alittle annoyed. He went afk during **** boss and then we waiting 10 mins for him to come back b4 i was like ill heal the pull we can manage. He run right along with us... >.< never saying he was back...After that i quit healing and well lets say ppl started dieing.

I know i should just healed... but i couldnt. Practice makes perfect right?

This is only the most recent time.. there have been a lot more times this has happened.

Do new clerics not know how to heal? Is it our fault? The old clerics.. the ones that do know how..
I love the class of cleric dearly.. and this has been bothering me for quite awhile. but i seriously think our future clerics are going to ruin us.
If i try to offer advice, im an *******.. if i kick them im an ***.. ... the new clerics need help but idk what to do anymore.

I don't think any of the above applies in your place. You shouldn't have taken his job, you should have told him to start healing. That way he wouldn't think he can get away with DD. You should have said it in squad chat, worse happens is that the fail leaves and you have to solo heal (which you were already doing) or you get a real DD or a real cleric. Either of which would have been preferable to that cleric. It's not your fault he sucked, there was just a clear lack of communication in that squad. Sometimes you have to be assertive. When you cover for the fails, they just think they can get away with that more and more. Some people you give an inch, and they want to take a mile. Back when I was active on my cleric, I did have to tell mystics that I could do the healing alone in squad just fine. And I don't heal to keep people alive, I heal to prevent charm ticks. And would do that just fine and still have mystics don't random spot heals rather than DD. I usually told them to stop and they would. And the run would go smoothly and nobody's charm would tick. A lot of mystics are former clerics like you I think, so it's just reflex. But some clerics will also start to purposefully play in a manner to annoy the mystic when this happens. This is another reason it's better to communicate than to cover for them.

tweakz

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

A person's job in squad should be to maximize their potential in squad

@Bella: Notice how Venus state's what the job should be (not is), also note how they consider what's best for the squad as a whole.

Delegating jobs to me; should be the responsibility of squad leader. (I mostly do this ahead when requesting a healer, tank, assorted dds). -Notice I state healer: not cleric. Now if I'm building an RB squad, and a Mystic joins on a WC request for healer/dd: it's their responsibility to notify me which roles they can fill before I invite them. Obviously BM, sin, etc wouldn't need to. By joining in that way they are agreeing to fill that role. It is not coercion, trickery, bossiness: it's an agreement.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

There's a difference between say to someone what to do and tell someone to do his job. Be honest with me tweakz, if you are in GV/RB/Delta on your cleric in BB and the mystic just spam Comforting mist over and over again without DDing you won't tell him to DD? You will let him overheal your BB without a word? What would be your reaction? Drop BB and stand there? Drop BB and start DDing?

Personally I would say ''Can you pls stop overhealing and DD, we took you as DD not as healer, thank you.''. Call that like you want, but I think that saying that to someone is not trying to act smarter, it's just communication to get the squad working at his full potential. Of course there's a way to say it, the first time I'll ask politely I won't say ''You stupid idiot do your job!!!''. Lead doesn't absolutely mean to be rude or act superior.

I've been in a similar situation you describe. The mystic had demon summoned but wasn't using, and they were spamming NV. I told them to use AoEs. They didn't (no creeper, no mistress, no GF, and no thicket). I told them again and probably warned them. They complained that they'd get aggro and die. I kicked them at that point and we finished w/o them. I've also been wiz in squad where I wasn't lead observing the same mystic again who hasn't learned. I typed: "can we kick this useless mystic already?". - The mystic left on their own.

I don't expect to have to carry squad leaders alts, or dead weight. I also don't expect my squad to have to.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

We agree on something for once...I think the only reasons mystics with clearly inferior DD get away with going "well it's the clerics job" even though they could heal just as well and would be better off healing the squad while the cleric DD is because mystics came out later. So now people feel entitled to DD while cleric heals, even when they should be the ones healing. Instead of discussing it and comparing each other to determine who is better for that instance to heal, and who would be better off DD'ing. Personally, I'd prefer if two healers got into a squad they'd be capable of comparing gear and determing what heals are going to be needed and promoted the person who is going to DD better to the role of DD. This is usually the mystic, granted, but when I see mystic with very inferior gear DD'ing while the cleric heals because "clerics heal," it makes me facepalm. A person's job in squad should be to maximize their potential in squad. I haven't done BH100 in a long time for example, but I do remember seeing clerics healing in R9 gear with great refines healing while some r8/tt99 mix mystic DD'ed. And were not even good. And I did not see the point in that.

It's also funny because there a lot of mystics who will rage if you dare suggest clerics are better healers than them. Telling you constantly about how they heal as good or better than a cleric the majority of the time. And then when you say "great, then heal!" they go "I'm not a healer," which means you are actually far worse than a cleric IMO. Because refusing to heal is less heals than even the worse chromatic spamming cleric. But I've seen a lot of mystics refuse to do any healing even when the cleric is terrible and clearly should just metal mage or gtfo of squad, and then insist they are good healers. Good healers, actually heal. I'd rather take the chromatic spamming cleric than them. At least they are trying, even if they are sucky. Something is better than nothing. Although given the choice I'd rather not have either in squad.

But I don't think that is the norm, and normally the mystic should be the one DD'ing. Probably the majority of the time, probably about 90% of the time maybe. I do think it merits a discussion though because mystics are just as much healers as clerics. And the one with the better DD should be the one DDing. Usually, that will be the mystic but not always. So it shouldn't be automatically the clerics job.

Some people would disagree with you cause the one with the best DD is also the one with the more powerful heals.

If you take example a cleric R8+7 and one TT99+5, of course the R8 have more DD power, but also stronger heals.

I saw some people that prefer the cleric with the best weapon to heal to get more powerful heals. (when there's 2 clerics)

It happened often to me in caster nirvy that with my R8+7 people was making me heal over a lower weap/ref saying the cleric with the most powerful heals should heal.

At some point of course if the cleric is R9rr+12 and the other is G16+5 than it's better to let the R9rr+12 DD cause the G16+5 is way enough to heal. (when there's 2 clerics in squad)

I think it's the mystic choice if he want to have a healing job or not, some mystic are not comfortable as main healer and prefer to DD (actually a lot of mystic don't like or can't solo heal), I always said that there's no problem if a mystic don't want to be main healer, he just need to tell his squad that he's not comfortable to be main healer, of course a mystic that can do it have more squads opportunities, but as I said if the person that make the squad asked for DD and take a mystic for a DD spot, than the mystic was take as DD and shouldn't be punish at healing if the cleric cannot do his job.

As I said if the cleric struggle at healing for any reason, lag or w/e I'll support and help at healing, but if I was take as DD and the cleric is DDing letting people die than no I don't support that, not cause I suck at healing, I'm a great healer on both class, but I go in squad as DD cause I want to DD, I don't want to be stuck at doing someone else job cause he suck at his class. If the cleric was take as healer and cannot do his job than he should be replace, the mystic shouldn't be automatically the healer cause of it.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Some people would disagree with you cause the one with the best DD is also the one with the more powerful heals.

wouldn't that be wrong in case of a weapon with attack levels or DoT/Deity sharding?

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

wouldn't that be wrong in case of a weapon with attack levels or DoT/Deity sharding?

Please forgive me, I forgot that clerics on PVE servers actually shard in DoT. We Don't have that on HL, our cleric suck, but at least not at the point to shard in DoT. xD

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

On stairs is where snakes aoe stun doesnt effect the cleric so there is no bb interruption making it easier.

This is actually less about BB placement and more about knowing what the boss does. Vile snake has a small aoe stun and what you usually find is that the puller/tank will drag the boss into BB resulting in it dropping. You then also find a lot of clerics that will put BB back up in the exact same position only for them to be stunned again not knowing if they had only moved a couple of steps back they would be fine.

So actually vile snake can stun on the stairs if he is moved into stun range. However he can be killed where he spawns without having to move him and still be in BB range if the cleric is on the stairs.

PsychicTuna - Harshlands

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Please forgive me, I forgot that clerics on PVE servers actually shard in DoT. We Don't have that on HL, our cleric suck, but at least not at the point to shard in DoT. xD

There was one cleric that had DoT sharded helm/cape on HL.

Eoria - Harshlands

PsychicTuna - Harshlands wrote: »

There was one cleric that had DoT sharded helm/cape on HL.

We don't talk about that cleric. She does not exist.

Desdi - Sanctuary

I agree with a lot of points that Venus made, especially the part about maximising the squad's potential.

For example, back in the Caster Nirvana days we had a group of people we'd run with on a regular basis. It was me (Venomancer), two clerics, one mystic, one psychic and last spot varied, usually a Wizard. Both clerics were always in VD mode while the Mystic was the one healing because they could DD while having the plants down and in worst case they could throw a quick BitC. We also had res buffs so we didn't need revive and we hardly ever died anyway.

I don't like Mystics who refuse to heal but I don't expect them to do it if there's a Cleric in squad, however sometimes a Mystic is more suitable for healing for a variety of reasons.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree with a lot of points that Venus made, especially the part about maximising the squad's potential.

I don't like Mystics who refuse to heal but I don't expect them to do it if there's a Cleric in squad, however sometimes a Mystic is more suitable for healing for a variety of reasons.

I think it's a server issue cause when I say clerics on HL are bad, the mystics on HL are worse, I sincerely do not know any other mystic than me that can solo heal things, probably Eo could do it cause she's a great cleric, but other than that I don't know any mystic that can solo heal on my server. (can or want)

It's funny cause I'm probably one of the best mystics on my server, but I would be hated on other servers cause don't wanna play the healer. b:chuckle (there's not a lot of competition)

I think I had a overdose of healing after lvl 2 clerics the old way and playing them as main for 4 years, but at least I was enough smart to not turn into a metal mage and made a other class so I can DD.

Christona - Raging Tide

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This is actually less about BB placement and more about knowing what the boss does. Vile snake has a small aoe stun and what you usually find is that the puller/tank will drag the boss into BB resulting in it dropping. You then also find a lot of clerics that will put BB back up in the exact same position only for them to be stunned again not knowing if they had only moved a couple of steps back they would be fine.

So actually vile snake can stun on the stairs if he is moved into stun range. However he can be killed where he spawns without having to move him and still be in BB range if the cleric is on the stairs.

Guess i was lucky.. all my squads kept the boss where he spawned... he really never moves.. ig i get good barbs these days.

kwalamra

I play a 101 cleric and am pure so am a great healer but I have been thinking of restating for survival because I can't withstand 1 hit from a pk player. If we regenerated chi or had speed but it uses all but 1/2 of a chi to stun 3 times to try to get away and with 3 stun breakers and blockers I don't stand a chance.
If we had some defense against a sin just popping up and stunning us against another just domain through our stun then 1 shooting or anything besides maybe but seriously we mostly have to stay in safe zone or die.
I really don't mind another player having to use pots to part heal self if it means I don't have to get spam killed by sins in stealth 22 times.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I think it's a server issue cause when I say clerics on HL are bad, the mystics on HL are worse, I sincerely do not know any other mystic than me that can solo heal things, probably Eo could do it cause she's a great cleric, but other than that I don't know any mystic that can solo heal on my server. (can or want)

It's funny cause I'm probably one of the best mystics on my server, but I would be hated on other servers cause don't wanna play the healer. b:chuckle (there's not a lot of competition)

I think I had a overdose of healing after lvl 2 clerics the old way and playing them as main for 4 years, but at least I was enough smart to not turn into a metal mage and made a other class so I can DD.

Yeah, I don't blame you. I haven't played my Cleric anywhere near as you but there are times when I simply refuse to play it because I don't feel like healing anyone x.x

ON_oFF - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

As a cleric I'd get offensive too if you were wasting my MP, and time by double healing rather than dd'ing. I'd probably say something in squad chat though. A mystic should be capable of healing a whole run as well, so I wouldn't fault the cleric here.

I don't blame new clerics for much. It's the ones I've known for years that are chromaspamming their way through stuff, dropping BB way to close to spawn in RB, and rolling with way too much vit to be able to heal anything properly.

A mystic is a backup healer only...they are not designed to be a main healer..but your right, they can be main healer..i do it allll the time its easy done. However i agree, if i'm on my mystic in a squad with a cleric and i start healing..the cleric gets lazy as hell and leaves me to it. So i don't heal unless its a useless cleric..and with that said =\ i'm almost lvl100 on my cleric because of all the damn frost babies - cleric was my first char =D