worries about the cleric class

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

So today, after not touching my mystic (88) or cleric for a week i went on my mystic to do an fc. b:laugh yeah ik i prolly heal too much since my cleric comes through on my mystic. So the squad was a good one. A barb, bm, sin, cleric, psy, and me. We did first two bosses fine no problems. I put up herbs and did some sot healing now and then. Bear with me i have a point to make. After that, the cleric slowly moved away from healing and went to dd. Of course i started to pick up his slack. By the second run i was main healer because he was dding. I got alittle annoyed. He went afk during **** boss and then we waiting 10 mins for him to come back b4 i was like ill heal the pull we can manage. He run right along with us... >.< never saying he was back...After that i quit healing and well lets say ppl started dieing.

I know i should just healed... but i couldnt. Practice makes perfect right?

This is only the most recent time.. there have been a lot more times this has happened.

Do new clerics not know how to heal? Is it our fault? The old clerics.. the ones that do know how..
I love the class of cleric dearly.. and this has been bothering me for quite awhile. but i seriously think our future clerics are going to ruin us.
If i try to offer advice, im an *******.. if i kick them im an ***.. ... the new clerics need help but idk what to do anymore.

Oh good God I feel bad for you. However I do agree with you the new clerics are not the brightest bunch. Ihad a similar experience a few weeks ago in bh59. I was running on an assassin alt of min. In squad we had a cleric, veno,me,barb,bm and a wizard. The first boss we had was Quinji or what ever its name is. Luckily it was wined so not much mobs to deal with. At the boss however the freaking cleric puts up BB...I'm like okay maybe they're afk or something. So we move on to next.boss think it was zimo. We encounter some stray monsters and cleric yells 'wait I don't have BB ready'. I came to a halt and said we don't need BB just use Ironheart on who's taking damage. The world stopped for me I swear he said 'I don't use that I left it at 1 BB is better.' I didn't know whether to drop squad and kill him.or run into zimo and kill myself. So I calmly told.him it's his most important heal along with WS which he didn't even bother to get. Needless to say it was back and forth banter with him telling me I must fail at the game and have never played a cleric before. I I simply said I have a lvl88 cleric main who unlike you I didn't DC or hyper. With that I left squad an killed em -_-.
Something is in the water and most definitely lodged in some of their brains. He was the only one put of a few to argue that way. The others I'd encountered simply were new at the game an didn't know what forums were or it was just their first time in general. I think we need like a master/apprentice thing here.

Trying to look at it from the cleric's perspective. They had a mystic that was double healing and doing their job for them but wasn't DDing as much as they could because they were so busy trying to be a healer. I think for the cleric he saw the DD job was open since the mystic wasn't doing it (and cleric's really can make better DD's than mystics) and so he stepped into it. Similar things happen all the time when there are two cleric's in squad.

Another thing to note is different clerics have different comfort zones with their squads hp. Some cleric's insist everyone in their squad is healed to 100%. I have a friend, excellent cleric, but he likes to let me get almost dead before he gives me a big SoR heal then he goes back to DDing. I personally make sure my tank is fully healed, and usually stacked, then focus on my casters. Anyone with paint can usually heal themselves or its a caster getting tiny aoe magic attacks while they rip up the HA and LAs I'll focus on others first and expect them to pot or get healed later. Drives me nuts when I am franticly trying to keep 3 or 4 players alive and someone who is hardly taking any damage wants me to focus on them like I'm a pot-service, but thats another discussion. Anyways, different players have different hp comfort zone and maybe he didn't feel people were needing heals yet but you did.

On the subject of new clerics: New cleric's do not know how to stack before a pull. It makes a huge difference if I go to invoke/vortex/aoe and have 100% hp because I was stacked vs having 50% hp because I wasn't. Pots can't always keep up with the damage people are taking, and we may have other plans for our genies than using ToP. We may also be able to survive fine once we're aoeing with paint heals or once we're invoked but an IH lasts 15 seconds and will get us to that comfortable point and so many clerics neglect that. They stand there and wait for you to move while you stand there and wait for them to stack.

Mystic DD will be greater than cleric DD overall when we're talking PVE. ijs.

It's not about cleric be better or worse DD than mystic, cleric's job should be to heal, mystic or not in squad. Unless for some reasons they agree before the run that the mystic will be main healer and the cleric DD. As a mystic should not overheal and should not take the cleric's job when there's a cleric in squad.

Many times on my cleric I need to tell the mystic in squad to stop overheal for nothing and to do his job of DD and to DD, as many time on my mystic I need to ask the cleric to stop DDing and do his job of keep the squad alive.

tweakz wrote: »

So your job is boss?

Well it depend, if I run with my faction/friends no, but with random squads there's always stupid people that need to be told what to do, so yes often in random squads people need someone to lead (I prefer the word lead than boss).

I stopped to play cleric as main to reroll mystic and I didn't done that to heal behind a cleric that DD, if I wanted to be a main healer I would have stay on my cleric, I would have not bother to learn a other class and gear up to do the same job, so yes I expect clerics in squad to heal.

tweakz wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but mystic is as much a healer as cleric. Also I have an alternate perspective: stupid people tell my cleric where to put Regeneration Aura in RB with their sole argument as either "it's where I put it with my cleric" or "it's not as safe but it's faster". -Both invalid arguments by people who *think* themselves leaders or smarter.

We agree on something for once...I think the only reasons mystics with clearly inferior DD get away with going "well it's the clerics job" even though they could heal just as well and would be better off healing the squad while the cleric DD is because mystics came out later. So now people feel entitled to DD while cleric heals, even when they should be the ones healing. Instead of discussing it and comparing each other to determine who is better for that instance to heal, and who would be better off DD'ing. Personally, I'd prefer if two healers got into a squad they'd be capable of comparing gear and determing what heals are going to be needed and promoted the person who is going to DD better to the role of DD. This is usually the mystic, granted, but when I see mystic with very inferior gear DD'ing while the cleric heals because "clerics heal," it makes me facepalm. A person's job in squad should be to maximize their potential in squad. I haven't done BH100 in a long time for example, but I do remember seeing clerics healing in R9 gear with great refines healing while some r8/tt99 mix mystic DD'ed. And were not even good. And I did not see the point in that.

It's also funny because there a lot of mystics who will rage if you dare suggest clerics are better healers than them. Telling you constantly about how they heal as good or better than a cleric the majority of the time. And then when you say "great, then heal!" they go "I'm not a healer," which means you are actually far worse than a cleric IMO. Because refusing to heal is less heals than even the worse chromatic spamming cleric. But I've seen a lot of mystics refuse to do any healing even when the cleric is terrible and clearly should just metal mage or gtfo of squad, and then insist they are good healers. Good healers, actually heal. I'd rather take the chromatic spamming cleric than them. At least they are trying, even if they are sucky. Something is better than nothing. Although given the choice I'd rather not have either in squad.

But I don't think that is the norm, and normally the mystic should be the one DD'ing. Probably the majority of the time, probably about 90% of the time maybe. I do think it merits a discussion though because mystics are just as much healers as clerics. And the one with the better DD should be the one DDing. Usually, that will be the mystic but not always. So it shouldn't be automatically the clerics job.

Christona - Raging Tide wrote: »

So today, after not touching my mystic (88) or cleric for a week i went on my mystic to do an fc. b:laugh yeah ik i prolly heal too much since my cleric comes through on my mystic. So the squad was a good one. A barb, bm, sin, cleric, psy, and me. We did first two bosses fine no problems. I put up herbs and did some sot healing now and then. Bear with me i have a point to make. After that, the cleric slowly moved away from healing and went to dd. Of course i started to pick up his slack. By the second run i was main healer because he was dding. I got alittle annoyed. He went afk during **** boss and then we waiting 10 mins for him to come back b4 i was like ill heal the pull we can manage. He run right along with us... >.< never saying he was back...After that i quit healing and well lets say ppl started dieing.

I know i should just healed... but i couldnt. Practice makes perfect right?

This is only the most recent time.. there have been a lot more times this has happened.

Do new clerics not know how to heal? Is it our fault? The old clerics.. the ones that do know how..
I love the class of cleric dearly.. and this has been bothering me for quite awhile. but i seriously think our future clerics are going to ruin us.
If i try to offer advice, im an *******.. if i kick them im an ***.. ... the new clerics need help but idk what to do anymore.

I don't think any of the above applies in your place. You shouldn't have taken his job, you should have told him to start healing. That way he wouldn't think he can get away with DD. You should have said it in squad chat, worse happens is that the fail leaves and you have to solo heal (which you were already doing) or you get a real DD or a real cleric. Either of which would have been preferable to that cleric. It's not your fault he sucked, there was just a clear lack of communication in that squad. Sometimes you have to be assertive. When you cover for the fails, they just think they can get away with that more and more. Some people you give an inch, and they want to take a mile. Back when I was active on my cleric, I did have to tell mystics that I could do the healing alone in squad just fine. And I don't heal to keep people alive, I heal to prevent charm ticks. And would do that just fine and still have mystics don't random spot heals rather than DD. I usually told them to stop and they would. And the run would go smoothly and nobody's charm would tick. A lot of mystics are former clerics like you I think, so it's just reflex. But some clerics will also start to purposefully play in a manner to annoy the mystic when this happens. This is another reason it's better to communicate than to cover for them.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

We agree on something for once...I think the only reasons mystics with clearly inferior DD get away with going "well it's the clerics job" even though they could heal just as well and would be better off healing the squad while the cleric DD is because mystics came out later. So now people feel entitled to DD while cleric heals, even when they should be the ones healing. Instead of discussing it and comparing each other to determine who is better for that instance to heal, and who would be better off DD'ing. Personally, I'd prefer if two healers got into a squad they'd be capable of comparing gear and determing what heals are going to be needed and promoted the person who is going to DD better to the role of DD. This is usually the mystic, granted, but when I see mystic with very inferior gear DD'ing while the cleric heals because "clerics heal," it makes me facepalm. A person's job in squad should be to maximize their potential in squad. I haven't done BH100 in a long time for example, but I do remember seeing clerics healing in R9 gear with great refines healing while some r8/tt99 mix mystic DD'ed. And were not even good. And I did not see the point in that.

It's also funny because there a lot of mystics who will rage if you dare suggest clerics are better healers than them. Telling you constantly about how they heal as good or better than a cleric the majority of the time. And then when you say "great, then heal!" they go "I'm not a healer," which means you are actually far worse than a cleric IMO. Because refusing to heal is less heals than even the worse chromatic spamming cleric. But I've seen a lot of mystics refuse to do any healing even when the cleric is terrible and clearly should just metal mage or gtfo of squad, and then insist they are good healers. Good healers, actually heal. I'd rather take the chromatic spamming cleric than them. At least they are trying, even if they are sucky. Something is better than nothing. Although given the choice I'd rather not have either in squad.

But I don't think that is the norm, and normally the mystic should be the one DD'ing. Probably the majority of the time, probably about 90% of the time maybe. I do think it merits a discussion though because mystics are just as much healers as clerics. And the one with the better DD should be the one DDing. Usually, that will be the mystic but not always. So it shouldn't be automatically the clerics job.

Some people would disagree with you cause the one with the best DD is also the one with the more powerful heals.

If you take example a cleric R8+7 and one TT99+5, of course the R8 have more DD power, but also stronger heals.

I saw some people that prefer the cleric with the best weapon to heal to get more powerful heals. (when there's 2 clerics)

It happened often to me in caster nirvy that with my R8+7 people was making me heal over a lower weap/ref saying the cleric with the most powerful heals should heal.

At some point of course if the cleric is R9rr+12 and the other is G16+5 than it's better to let the R9rr+12 DD cause the G16+5 is way enough to heal. (when there's 2 clerics in squad)

I think it's the mystic choice if he want to have a healing job or not, some mystic are not comfortable as main healer and prefer to DD (actually a lot of mystic don't like or can't solo heal), I always said that there's no problem if a mystic don't want to be main healer, he just need to tell his squad that he's not comfortable to be main healer, of course a mystic that can do it have more squads opportunities, but as I said if the person that make the squad asked for DD and take a mystic for a DD spot, than the mystic was take as DD and shouldn't be punish at healing if the cleric cannot do his job.

As I said if the cleric struggle at healing for any reason, lag or w/e I'll support and help at healing, but if I was take as DD and the cleric is DDing letting people die than no I don't support that, not cause I suck at healing, I'm a great healer on both class, but I go in squad as DD cause I want to DD, I don't want to be stuck at doing someone else job cause he suck at his class. If the cleric was take as healer and cannot do his job than he should be replace, the mystic shouldn't be automatically the healer cause of it.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

wouldn't that be wrong in case of a weapon with attack levels or DoT/Deity sharding?

Please forgive me, I forgot that clerics on PVE servers actually shard in DoT. We Don't have that on HL, our cleric suck, but at least not at the point to shard in DoT. xD

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Please forgive me, I forgot that clerics on PVE servers actually shard in DoT. We Don't have that on HL, our cleric suck, but at least not at the point to shard in DoT. xD

There was one cleric that had DoT sharded helm/cape on HL.

I agree with a lot of points that Venus made, especially the part about maximising the squad's potential.

For example, back in the Caster Nirvana days we had a group of people we'd run with on a regular basis. It was me (Venomancer), two clerics, one mystic, one psychic and last spot varied, usually a Wizard. Both clerics were always in VD mode while the Mystic was the one healing because they could DD while having the plants down and in worst case they could throw a quick BitC. We also had res buffs so we didn't need revive and we hardly ever died anyway.

I don't like Mystics who refuse to heal but I don't expect them to do it if there's a Cleric in squad, however sometimes a Mystic is more suitable for healing for a variety of reasons.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I think it's a server issue cause when I say clerics on HL are bad, the mystics on HL are worse, I sincerely do not know any other mystic than me that can solo heal things, probably Eo could do it cause she's a great cleric, but other than that I don't know any mystic that can solo heal on my server. (can or want)

It's funny cause I'm probably one of the best mystics on my server, but I would be hated on other servers cause don't wanna play the healer. b:chuckle (there's not a lot of competition)

I think I had a overdose of healing after lvl 2 clerics the old way and playing them as main for 4 years, but at least I was enough smart to not turn into a metal mage and made a other class so I can DD.

Yeah, I don't blame you. I haven't played my Cleric anywhere near as you but there are times when I simply refuse to play it because I don't feel like healing anyone x.x