Hellfire Abomination...and the painful new SOT.

Meanwhile other people are doing it for days, stop whining and actually try get it done, when i first went there it wiped my entire squad and instead of making this annoying post we tried and tried till we got it done. It is possible , Rule of thumb~ kill it before it kills u.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1 mystic.

Speaking of dying, why does it kick me out of the instance and back to Lothloris now? That's insulting as a cleric to have to not only run back through the instance, but halfway through the map that the instance is on.

The mystic should ress buff the cleric first and the cleric (you or others) shouldn't use it if it's risky, if you died and half your squad died in the same time or just after you died don't ress yet cause anyway you will not be able to ress 5 persons +, heal and stay alive in the same time, let others die or run and when the boss is reset get up and ress people and try again. (also don't set BB directly in the boss, so if you die you can ress without get attack)

I did noticed that people with less than 6-7k hp cannot survive the AOE, but at that point of the game people don't have excuse to don't have the gears to have 6-7k hp. It's a end game instance and I think it's normal that they make it hard.

You have 5.7k buffed, which mean around 4.5k unbuffed which is really low for a end game cleric, maybe post a pwicalc in the cleric section and ask advices cause in your case the problem is your gears.

Safeng - Sanctuary wrote: »

Honestly, I think the boss is fine as it is. 5.7k buffed is awfully low. I don't expect people to be full +10 gears but I'm pure magic with +5 refines and I'm currently sitting at 6.4k unbuffed. Anything below at least 7k buffed as a caster is just bad at this point.

And not to sound harsh here but I'm glad that game's doing something to weed out those 4k hp people that I keep seeing around. They contribute so little to a squad that I hate taking them. Even if you're a new player that just hit 100, you should be better unless you hyper rushed.

The argument that it's meant for culti... eh. People didn't run full 99 squads before. You will always have some decently geared 100 person helping.

^ this b:surrender

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

but at that point of the game people don't have excuse to don't have the gears to have 6-7k hp.

I find that ironic given how upset you got when I said that venos who don't have herc/nix are fail. It's the same exact premise. If you're lvl 100 and running the 100+ dungeons you have no excuse to not have something better than a glacial walker or something that doesn't even evolve.

On topic though.. I agree that people who can't stay alive *at all* don't "deserve" to be running the dungeon, but even as a 102 with 1/2 r9 and 6.xk hp unbuffed I die about half the time. I'm never the first to die, because I'm just the veno, but if the cleric or tank dies it's almost guaranteed that I'll die. That's with charm, pots, apoth and all that.

And that isn't really reasonable, in my opinion, for a weekly quest or an FB boss. I use Guardian Scrolls, so every death costs me 110k minimum with token prices where they are now. I use these because I cannot assume or expect that every cleric will have lvl 11 res. About half of the clerics I've squaded with from world chat don't.

The reward doesn't even make it worth the cost and the effort. Someone else said elsewhere that things like apoth and defense charms should not be mandatory for a repeatable quest, and I agree with that. It also shouldn't be mandatory that the *insert class* be *insert sage or demon* for one specific skill.

There are just too many variables for all of the bosses and the entire dungeon and it relies heavily on everyone in the squad being on the same page for every little detail. You would think this would be easy, but it isn't. For people who run static squads ok, but most of us don't do that.

In seat and abba, you get wild disagreements on the squad makeup, the strategies, etc.
Who has lag, who doesn't speak English, who is doing it for the first time. You also have no way of knowing how someone is going to perform in the dungeon unless you've ran with them before and even then it's not always a guarantee.

What I see happening in the very near future is squads will be made up of this:
- 2 sage clerics with sage res
- 1 sage barb
- 1 demon BM
- 1 sage veno (if any veno at all)
- optional seeker
- the rest 5.0 g16 +10 sins

All so the bosses can be killed fast enough, which kinda defeats the purpose of all the changes they made to the dungeon. It'll once again become exclusionary to certain classes, and it's ALREADY become exclusionary (partly voluntarily) on basis of gear.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Its a good argument. It was ultimately cultivation instance. They should of made nirvana into something/created new endgame instance or done what they did with aba and left culti bosses as they were. Changing a cultiboss to high tier endgame boss is idiotic move.

Alternatively, have an alternate Hellfire (the old one) be spawnable via a quest for the person that needs it for their 99 culti. 100 culti? lolno, go kill that new monstrosity.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Its a good argument. It was ultimately cultivation instance.

Was. It was. The population however, has outgeared that difficulty level quite a while ago. If you grab a squad of appropriately geared people at current standards, you can do it.

Same as modern computer games don't run on systems built in 1990. The majority of people has moved on.

If there was an "old mode" who would benefit from it? The players with terribly low gear. I don't want these people to move on without gearing up. Because that way they're just going to leech off the people who cared about their gear.
Also, sins. Soloing the cave to grab books the can sell for few millions. Not quite the common sense of an MMO either, heh.

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

I find that ironic given how upset you got when I said that venos who don't have herc/nix are fail. It's the same exact premise. If you're lvl 100 and running the 100+ dungeons you have no excuse to not have something better than a glacial walker or something that doesn't even evolve.

Excuse me? This is fail. No veno needs a herc or a nix to do well in this game. I've seen venos with a little cat pet that can play better than some with a herc or nix. Especially in the new SoT and Abaddon instances. Also, I've seen evolved glacial walkers with herc skills acquired for free from faction base quests and the Dragon Temple Raider(or whatever that event is) that can out perform my unevolved herc. Time to get your elitist head out of the clouds. Good players with venos do not need to cash shop to succeed. In fact, nobody does. All they have to do is know how to play their class and take advantage of all the game offers. Besides, pets do very little in assisting a squad in instances anyway.

On topic though.. I agree that people who can't stay alive *at all* don't "deserve" to be running the dungeon, but even as a 102 with 1/2 r9 and 6.xk hp unbuffed I die about half the time. I'm never the first to die, because I'm just the veno, but if the cleric or tank dies it's almost guaranteed that I'll die. That's with charm, pots, apoth and all that.

Maybe if you learn to evade imminent death you wouldn't die at all if you can see it coming. I don't use charms. They are a waste. Pots are sufficient. If I see the squad tank and healer die I don't stand there and wait until whatever kills me too. I invoke fortify and feral concentration and start running.

And that isn't really reasonable, in my opinion, for a weekly quest or an FB boss. I use Guardian Scrolls, so every death costs me 110k minimum with token prices where they are now. I use these because I cannot assume or expect that every cleric will have lvl 11 res. About half of the clerics I've squaded with from world chat don't.

Meh.

The reward doesn't even make it worth the cost and the effort. Someone else said elsewhere that things like apoth and defense charms should not be mandatory for a repeatable quest, and I agree with that. It also shouldn't be mandatory that the *insert class* be *insert sage or demon* for one specific skill.

There are just too many variables for all of the bosses and the entire dungeon and it relies heavily on everyone in the squad being on the same page for every little detail. You would think this would be easy, but it isn't. For people who run static squads ok, but most of us don't do that.

In seat and abba, you get wild disagreements on the squad makeup, the strategies, etc.
Who has lag, who doesn't speak English, who is doing it for the first time. You also have no way of knowing how someone is going to perform in the dungeon unless you've ran with them before and even then it's not always a guarantee.

What I see happening in the very near future is squads will be made up of this:
- 2 sage clerics with sage res
- 1 sage barb
- 1 demon BM
- 1 sage veno (if any veno at all)
- optional seeker
- the rest 5.0 g16 +10 sins

All so the bosses can be killed fast enough, which kinda defeats the purpose of all the changes they made to the dungeon. It'll once again become exclusionary to certain classes, and it's ALREADY become exclusionary (partly voluntarily) on basis of gear.

At the time of conception and implementation of every instance it is by design that they are set up for a squad of separate classes using individual skills to support the entire mission of the instance. With the addition of new gears via cash shop or modified instance drops the player base has clearly out geared most instances which diminishes the spirit of the game. SoT and Abaddon are end game instances and should be a challenge for players wearing modern gear. Add to that challenges that require teamwork. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

That 'idealistically normal' SoT and Abaddon squad you concocted is irrelevant if moderately geared chars can succeed in the instances by using coordinated teamwork and skillful strategies. I've been in these squads and once we get past the learning curve it isn't a problem. I agree with others who say that these redesigned instances are going to encourage players who haven't properly geared their toon and taken the time and effort into getting all their level appropriate skills to do so if they want to participate and/or do their cultis.

Calling others fail because they do not equip or stat their chars and adopt a gameplay style like yours is incredibly fail to say the least.

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hm, we did him fine in BB though. Besides, chances are high OP was the one BBing and with that hp I don't expect them to have more than a r8 weapon. So that might be part of the problem. b:surrender

That was not my point exactly. Our squad did fine with BB, too, and I welcome the changes to aba and seat and for well-geared people it's just right, though I found it disappointing that it's so much easier if you have enough dd power to kill him before he really becomes dangerous.
But imagine a situation a new player hits lv. 99 and thinks " awesome, I can continue on my culti journey" and confronts Hellfire and will get one-shot even through BB (similarily to what OP described)... that's not how this game was designed. It showed you a hard instance that may be easier with the new gear, but not impossible with the old gear... A lv. 99 player won't have super gear, they won't expect such a drastic
change from fb89 or Lunar to fb99 either.

Gear close to the culti level was never a hurdle to finish it. That's why just renaming the new final boss and adding the old Hellfire Abomination somewhere would fix it imo.

im not ashamed to admit

-Yes i still use glacial walker in instances (not like that dmg maters for squad or instance bosses)
-Yes i use morai dino when i want for extra dd (not like that dmg maters for squad or instance bosses)
-Yes i have Petite instead of nix

-No i dont have herc/monkey/nix/harpy ( i do want them like A LOT but f:sweat ...90mil~100mil..i better use it to improve my gear since i still have some work to do on it)

I think the point of saying they probably only have r8 or lower weapon while they were bbing was referring to amount of heals you would get every 5 seconds. r9+12 cleric is going to have a stronger bb than an r8+5 cleric. The damage is still reduced by 50% reguardless of your weapon and stats, but the bb heal is 20% of your base magic damage, meaning the more you have the better it is. Thusly a lvl 99 needing culti would have higher chances of living with a better geared cleric as healer than the poster per say.

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not going to address your commentary on something that wasn't meant for you and isn't in its full context. Go read the 10 other threads in the veno section where I elaborated on the things that offended you so much. I made a very specific comment to a very specific person here about a very specific exchange of 3 posts. Notice I didn't feel the need to respond with *foam at the mouth* "Excuse me, YOU ARE FAIL, NO U!" Oh, and I can easily avoid death if I opt for the run-like-a-coward and be less-than-minimally-useful to the squad route. I guess I'll give it a shot upon your urging. Thanks for the advice.

As for the dungeon commentary portion of your post:
I think you misunderstood what I meant in my last 2 sentences and the sample squad set up. It's my prediction for what will become the popular build as dictated by server squad trends. "Exclusionary" means the act or condition of excluding, or not letting people in. People exclude people, not dungeons. The details of a dungeon can only lend to conditions that facilitate more or less exclusion.

1) I'm replying to a post in this thread and I stand by what I said. If it was out of context it's because your post is not in context.

2) If someone responding to your post in a thread is offensive to you then maybe you should take your comments directed to another poster to PMs

LOL! I'd rather run like a coward and live than stand with a squad with a party wipe in progress. Yeah, you're really useful to your squad dead. ROTFL! At least I was alive and managed to lure the boss off of my dead squadmates so they can rez from their mystic buffs and run from the boss's spot to safety before it resets during last night's run.

And yes, my squad which comprised of g12 to g15 low refined gears managed to complete that run once we figured out how to do it. Only losers think that gear is somehow a substitute for skill and strategy. Funny how simple it was once we figured out what to do.

For all the ppl who dont give a b:fatb to lvl99 with seat culti you guys are a piece of b:fatb
1. they have to beg for a squad to finish their culti how hard will that be?
2. they running in max tt99 and from what i've read from op they prolly get one shot by aoe
and dont get the kill (i havent tried it out yet tho)

Also op is so kind to help ppl with the culti and all I see are harsh comments about her gear b:surrender

There's no tab pillar at the new level ? Hellfire Abomination. The tabbed boss must have been moved elsewhere. (I know for a fact that Lord of Captivation and Torturess Venerator have been moved; Lord is where Torturess was, and Torturess is where the fourth guard mob was, buffed with a heal skill that needs to be interrupted or she goes back up to full HP, both in Nightmare Gate. The other bosses I haven't seen yet, the squad I did a partial SoT with tonight gave up because of time considerations after a wipe near the beginning of Hell Trap.)

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There's no tab pillar at the new level ? Hellfire Abomination. The tabbed boss must have been moved elsewhere. (I know for a fact that Lord of Captivation and Torturess Venerator have been moved; Lord is where Torturess was, and Torturess is where the fourth guard mob was, buffed with a heal skill that needs to be interrupted or she goes back up to full HP, both in Nightmare Gate. The other bosses I haven't seen yet, the squad I did a partial SoT with tonight gave up because of time considerations after a wipe near the beginning of Hell Trap.)

The new map has the little boss icons. The smaller ones should be all of the old bosses, the larger ones the weekly bosses. I have not checked all of them in seat yet though.

I don't really intend to read all that blue text on the 1st page.
Here's the thing u don't even need a cleric to do Hellfire in sot. U know the queen boss, the boss that u need to dig the crystals for? u can use the crystals for all bosses in sot, and u take like 100 damage when the crystal is activated. Either that or aps him to death in a few seconds.