Demon Roar of the Pride Update.

Azura - Lost City · May 2013

Ok sure, an stun that works though everything. Do you also want a skill that one shots anyone though anything too? b:laugh

Blows - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Ok sure, an stun that works though everything. Do you also want a skill that one shots anyone though anything too? b:laugh

It's just funny to see people call a person a fail BM when themselves choose not to play with them.. Or could it be that they choose not to play a BM cause the fact of a person may call them fail as well. Cuase fully knowing that Bm damage can really suck at times..

Unholly - Lothranis · May 2013

I kind of like the idea of roar going though anti stuns and tidal as long as there is a way to avoid it, say it goes though all anti stuns buffs that look like the vac powder buff and other class anti stuns. but would fail if fortify/Immunity was used

Stuns effectiveness has surverily dropped in my opinion seeing as 5 of the classes have random purify anti stun, 1 of the classes has 50/66% debuff evasion and HA classes can either tank out or have long lasting anti stuns anyway
+ the fact that all classes have a genie with assorted ways of breaking a stun/stunlock

Might be a fun

Anyone want to see 2 bms charge at each other with will on and both roar b:chuckle this idea is extremaly humorous to me :x

b:surrender doubt any change would be made but fun idea ^^

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear · May 2013

I suppose considering all a BM has is his stun lock in PvP and that I have to answer this question or else the world would end....

Well then I would go with no to a buff for Demon RotP but a nerf to anti stunning techniques/pots. Testing would need to be done. Why? This benefits all BM's. BM's rush in to their opponents to stun them and bruise them. Take away their key cc ability they run in and die not really doing much at all. This allows for all BM's to use their other stuns after their roar fails and have a bit of participation. This will also penalize players who just use a skill/pot and rely on it's long duration to protect them. So skill will factor in.

Or apply a slowing cc effect to Demon RotP if/when it fails on target immune to stun. The text would read. "If target(s) resist/immune to stun a 35% Slow is applied for 6 seconds regardless of targets immunities?

A cc is still applied.

Or

Demon RotP Always stuns target. The Aoe Portion Of Skill has a 100% chance to hit all targets in range.

If your the target you get stunned if not you have a chance if you used a skill or pot.

That would be three of many ideas.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I suppose considering all a BM has is his stun lock in PvP and that I have to answer this question or else the world would end....

Well then I would go with no to a buff for Demon RotP but a nerf to anti stunning techniques/pots. Testing would need to be done. Why? This benefits all BM's. BM's rush in to their opponents to stun them and bruise them. Take away their key cc ability they run in and die not really doing much at all. This allows for all BM's to use their other stuns after their roar fails and have a bit of participation. This will also penalize players who just use a skill/pot and rely on it's long duration to protect them. So skill will factor in.

Or apply a slowing cc effect to Demon RotP if/when it fails on target immune to stun. The text would read. "If target(s) resist/immune to stun a 35% Slow is applied for 6 seconds regardless of targets immunities?

A cc is still applied.

Or

Demon RotP Always stuns target. The Aoe Portion Of Skill has a 100% chance to hit all targets in range.

If your the target you get stunned if not you have a chance if you used a skill or pot.

That would be three of many ideas.

I like the idea of Roar going through the targets immunities and acting as a regular stun on other targets, that could prevent it from being any more abusable than it is now in group pvp while still making stunlocks more effective in 1v1 or allowing us to keep a key target somewhat locked down. See, this is what I wanted. Reasonable discussion.

Azura - Lost City · May 2013

Blows - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's just funny to see people call a person a fail BM when themselves choose not to play with them.. Or could it be that they choose not to play a BM cause the fact of a person may call them fail as well. Cuase fully knowing that Bm damage can really suck at times..

I started playing as a veno since open beta started, and that has been my main class always, and I chose veno almost because I thought they looked cute, lol. I have many alts of different classes, including one bm, but all my alts are only to farm and empower my veno. Since I enjoy a lot my class I have no interest whatsoever in playing a bm as a main.

However I've fought many bms, and the ones in my server are still annoying as ****. They are doing their job well. Bms are excellent in group pvp and good in 1vs1, but their main role is support.

If you want to be a dd wearing a big shining heavy armor, roll a seeker, which doesn't even need to stun or debuff anyone to kill b:chuckle. A few bms did that, in my server and now are finally happy.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

I started playing as a veno since open beta started, and that has been my main class always, and I chose veno almost because I thought they looked cute, lol. I have many alts of different classes, including one bm, but all my alts are only to farm and empower my veno. Since I enjoy a lot my class I have no interest whatsoever in playing a bm as a main.

However I've fought many bms, and the ones in my server are still annoying as ****. They are doing their job well. Bms are excellent in group pvp and good in 1vs1, but their main role is support.

If you want to be a dd wearing a big shining heavy armor, roll a seeker, which doesn't even need to stun or debuff anyone to kill b:chuckle. A few bms did that, in my server and now are finally happy.

Someone seems to have missed the part where I stated one of the reasons I wanted an update to Demon Roar of the Pride was to allow BMs to do better at supporting.

Adroit - Lost City · May 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Someone seems to have missed the part where I stated one of the reasons I wanted an update to Demon Roar of the Pride was to allow BMs to do better at supporting.

bms are excellent support already, they do not need a boost at all.

Xainou - Sanctuary · May 2013

I would agree with you if it was a single target skill. But seeing it's an aoe and has a relatively short cooldown, that change would just make it too OP.

Zsw - Dreamweaver · May 2013

The skill description is correct. You are just mis-interpreting it.

As you know, level 10 roar is somewhere around 90-95% chance to succeed. Demon roar increase this chance to 100%, therefore, it always succeed. When you land a stun on an anti-stun, it still succeeded. It was simply resisted. This is why the word "Resist!" pops up when you stun someone on anti stun, and not "Failed!" or "Miss!". For some reason, you also seem to have neglected that fortify last 3 seconds, and not 6.

In terms of balance, we do not need more skills that cannot be countered. For every skill that exist, there is a reliable counter. This is all except for 2 skill - Purify Proc and Tidal Protection. I admit that Tidal protection is on the OP side since it cannot really be countered. People still insist that purify proc is not op even though its just like tidal( and it doesn't' even have a cooldown)... idk why.

Either way, two wrongs don't make a right. Instead of boosting BMs to give them a skill that can't be countered, simply nerf purify proc. Then BMs can once again be the support class they need to be without people breaking out of stun at random.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · May 2013

Veneir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

a debuff that goes through a buff that SPECIFICAILLY BLOCKS THAT DEBUFF makes no sense at alll.

That.

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The skill description is correct. You are just mis-interpreting it.

As you know, level 10 roar is somewhere around 90-95% chance to succeed. Demon roar increase this chance to 100%, therefore, it always succeed. When you land a stun on an anti-stun, it still succeeded. It was simply resisted. This is why the word "Resist!" pops up when you stun someone on anti stun, and not "Failed!" or "Miss!". For some reason, you also seem to have neglected that fortify last 3 seconds, and not 6.

I like how he explain it and he's right. (also majority of caster have a vit/mag genie and have only 3 seconds which is a joke)

Also BM have 4-6 stuns skills (someone told me sage have 4 and demon 6 which I personally didn't know I though it was 3 for both culti), while some class have only one anti-stun that cost 1 spark and is for only a few seconds with a big cooldown.

If RotP resist on the anti-stun then 5-15 seconds after (depend the class) you will be able to stun with a other skill while we can't use our anti before 30-120 seconds (depend the class)

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The skill description is correct. You are just mis-interpreting it.

As you know, level 10 roar is somewhere around 90-95% chance to succeed. Demon roar increase this chance to 100%, therefore, it always succeed. When you land a stun on an anti-stun, it still succeeded. It was simply resisted. This is why the word "Resist!" pops up when you stun someone on anti stun, and not "Failed!" or "Miss!". For some reason, you also seem to have neglected that fortify last 3 seconds, and not 6.

In terms of balance, we do not need more skills that cannot be countered. For every skill that exist, there is a reliable counter. This is all except for 2 skill - Purify Proc and Tidal Protection. I admit that Tidal protection is on the OP side since it cannot really be countered. People still insist that purify proc is not op even though its just like tidal( and it doesn't' even have a cooldown)... idk why.

Either way, two wrongs don't make a right. Instead of boosting BMs to give them a skill that can't be countered, simply nerf purify proc. Then BMs can once again be the support class they need to be without people breaking out of stun at random.

It's not so much that I misinterpret it, rather than the description leaves room for an improvement. I already stated that it didn't bother me before, I assumed the game just couldn't handle something like that and I was content since it was still a significant improvement as compared to level 10 which could fail at key moments. By native anti-stuns I was referring to class skills, the skills that are native to individual classes. Also, to be fair Fortify can last 6 seconds with an appropriate genie build.

Roar of the Pride has somewhat of a built in counter, which are its length and cooldown. These allow for it to be beaten even when it's unresisted by antistun. I've already listed how different antistun, genie, and apoth combos could still quite easy break locks. One six second stun is unlikely to result in the death of any equally geared player alone, it requires a well timed stunlock and genie use. If you were to die, even with antistun failing on Demon RotP, it would most likely be because of player skill rather than being unable to resist one stun.

I still believe this would be a good update for BMs, we're lackluster when it comes to quite a few things as of late even if I'm not end game I can tell. Our marrows make us susceptible to certain types of attacks even though we gain great defense in one area, our stuns are far less effective now than they used to be, and our damage is rather poor in comparison to other classes. Something to help us excel in what the class is meant for seems like a decent idea. If not RotP then updates to other skills.

The most amusing part about a couple of the people in this thread is that they believe Purify Spell to be justified and perfectly fine, yet they offer no actual reason as to why this would be a bad update whereas there's been plenty of debate about why Purify Spell should have some sort of nerf put in place.

Deadalus - Harshlands · May 2013

Yes, lets make all Stun skills which has a 100% success rate stun through ANTI-STUN

That makes sense, right? Yes..

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

Yes, lets make all Stun skills which has a 100% success rate stun through ANTI-STUN

That makes sense, right? Yes..

Not at all what I'm suggesting.

Deadalus - Harshlands · May 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not at all what I'm suggesting.

Yes it is, alot of stuns have a 100% success rate, but thes dont tell you, that it is.
Also they dont tell you, that they can fail, so its 100%.

Zsw - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's not so much that I misinterpret it, rather than the description leaves room for an improvement. I already stated that it didn't bother me before, I assumed the game just couldn't handle something like that and I was content since it was still a significant improvement as compared to level 10 which could fail at key moments. By native anti-stuns I was referring to class skills, the skills that are native to individual classes. Also, to be fair Fortify can last 6 seconds with an appropriate genie build.

Roar of the Pride has somewhat of a built in counter, which are its length and cooldown. These allow for it to be beaten even when it's unresisted by antistun. I've already listed how different antistun, genie, and apoth combos could still quite easy break locks. One six second stun is unlikely to result in the death of any equally geared player alone, it requires a well timed stunlock and genie use. If you were to die, even with antistun failing on Demon RotP, it would most likely be because of player skill rather than being unable to resist one stun.

I still believe this would be a good update for BMs, we're lackluster when it comes to quite a few things as of late even if I'm not end game I can tell. Our marrows make us susceptible to certain types of attacks even though we gain great defense in one area, our stuns are far less effective now than they used to be, and our damage is rather poor in comparison to other classes. Something to help us excel in what the class is meant for seems like a decent idea. If not RotP then updates to other skills.

The most amusing part about a couple of the people in this thread is that they believe Purify Spell to be justified and perfectly fine, yet they offer no actual reason as to why this would be a bad update whereas there's been plenty of debate about why Purify Spell should have some sort of nerf put in place.

I agree that fortify can be made to last 6 seconds. Although also to be fair, a dex or strength based genie isn't something that every class uses. Most classes are better off with a vit or mag genie.

I agree that BM need a boost. But I do not believe this is the correct way to do it. Demon roar of the pride cooldown + length is quite short. It lasts almost half of its cooldown time and is the most reliable spammable stun in the game. At the current moment, you can roar someone for 6 seconds, drake bash them for another 7.5 seconds, and be just 0.5 seconds away to roar again. At the current moment, you can throw in a fortify to prevent yourself from getting stun locked. However, if Roar were to bypass anti stun, you can always stun someone for at least 13.5 seconds by casting drake bash before roar. While someone may not die in 6 seconds, i think they got a good chance to die in 13.5 seconds. A Psychic's ability to stun someone for such insanely long duration is one of the reasons why most people believe it is OP. Luckily, you can counter it with fortify since Soul of Stunning is reactive and not proactive. However, you can easily trick someone to waste their fortify with a proactive skill and achieve the same stun time as a psychic with a much higher success rate.

However, lets say that a BM's damage sucks so much that you can't kill someone with a 13.5 second lock (Which may or may not be true), another problem arise. Roar is an AOE. 1 Person might not kill someone in 6 seconds, but multiple people certainly can. DDs absolutely do not require an unresistable, spammable, aoe stun that last 6 seconds to annihilate someone. Even as is, with it being resistable, a good bm with good DDs make significant impact on the outcome of the fight. Anti stun may very well be the only real defense some classes have. Average sized world pk expects 3- 6 bms on the field and TWs expect at least 13 bms more or less on the field. That is a large amount of stuns that you simply cannot resist. Might as well not have anti stun at all.

Of course, with purify proc though, this effect may be needed since they can stun break at random. But its much better to just nerf purify proc, as opposed to **** over 5/10 classes even more than already is.

BMs end game are actually quite tanky if built for support. Only thing going against them is purify proc **** up their locks, and a lack of damage which is made up for them being excellent supports. They are a bit prone to getting locked themselves, but the update on leaps and morai skills serves to balance that a bit. So the only thing that they really can't deal with is purify proc, and I'm all for rebalancing purify proc. As they say, if it ain't broken don't fix it. So fix what is broken instead.

Unholly - Morai · May 2013

no, only demon roar was mentioned in the suggestion to go though anti stun unless im mistaken

QED: when zanryu said "Not at all what I'm suggesting." it was right he was not saying he wanted all stuns to go though anti stun.

Adroit - Lost City · May 2013

Unholly - Morai wrote: »

no, only demon roar was mentioned in the suggestion to go though anti stun unless im mistaken

QED: when zanryu said "Not at all what I'm suggesting." it was right he was not saying he wanted all stuns to go though anti stun.

His reason for wanting demon rotp to go through anti stun has been that it is supposed to always succeed. Being that he thinks it is the only one, he did in fact suggest that every 100% chance stun skill should work through anti stun. And hey, I'll misapply QED too..

QED

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I agree that fortify can be made to last 6 seconds. Although also to be fair, a dex or strength based genie isn't something that every class uses. Most classes are better off with a vit or mag genie.

I agree that BM need a boost. But I do not believe this is the correct way to do it. Demon roar of the pride cooldown + length is quite short. It lasts almost half of its cooldown time and is the most reliable spammable stun in the game. At the current moment, you can roar someone for 6 seconds, drake bash them for another 7.5 seconds, and be just 0.5 seconds away to roar again. At the current moment, you can throw in a fortify to prevent yourself from getting stun locked. However, if Roar were to bypass anti stun, you can always stun someone for at least 13.5 seconds by casting drake bash before roar. While someone may not die in 6 seconds, i think they got a good chance to die in 13.5 seconds. A Psychic's ability to stun someone for such insanely long duration is one of the reasons why most people believe it is OP. Luckily, you can counter it with fortify since Soul of Stunning is reactive and not proactive. However, you can easily trick someone to waste their fortify with a proactive skill and achieve the same stun time as a psychic with a much higher success rate.

Indeed you can, much of this game in my experience is tricking someone to waste their resources so you can go in for the kill, unless you're able to simply overpower them. For BMs, resource wasting tends to be what has to happen, at least in my experience. In order to lock someone with Bash and RotP it requires good timing, there's time between them for instant cast skills such as the Archer 79 skill or BM/Sin/Sage Seeker anti stun. Badge/Expel/Domain/Faith are also still options. Not all BMs will take advantage of that, and in fact it could be used to the advantage of other classes. If a BM opens with Bash that's 1 spark gone, wait out the stun for Roar, then badge out of it or cast an instant cast antistun after. The BM is down by one spark at least after that. Psychics can use their stun indefinitely, on a 30 second cooldown and once it's up, it's up until it's ready to go again. A BM, in order to stun for the same duration, requires 1 spark 35 chi. It can only be done 3 times assuming chi is not used for anything else. If apothecary is used for anything but chi that means a Psychic could outlast our stun for much less cost, along with having long range control skills. They can force genies/apo/anti-CC without having to actually do anything, even with antistun resisting Roar a BM can't force those simply by standing there. What people seem to forget is the large chi cost of a stunlock, which truly does factor in

However, lets say that a BM's damage sucks so much that you can't kill someone with a 13.5 second lock (Which may or may not be true), another problem arise. Roar is an AOE. 1 Person might not kill someone in 6 seconds, but multiple people certainly can. DDs absolutely do not require an unresistable, spammable, aoe stun that last 6 seconds to annihilate someone. Even as is, with it being resistable, a good bm with good DDs make significant impact on the outcome of the fight. Anti stun may very well be the only real defense some classes have. Average sized world pk expects 3- 6 bms on the field and TWs expect at least 13 bms more or less on the field. That is a large amount of stuns that you simply cannot resist. Might as well not have anti stun at all.

The point of having more than one person on someone is to kill them, that's why you focus fire people in group PvP. To eliminate them. Now while that could be problematic, it's still resistable via geni. Of course, I liked what AdvanceZero suggested, making it only stun past antistun on the person targetted, while all others will only have the regular 100% success rate. It allows a BM better support in both 1v1 and group PvP without being completely unbeatable, as anti stun will still work against it should you not be its primary target. People passing through while antistunned get away, people not antistunned get, well.. stunned.

Of course, with purify proc though, this effect may be needed since they can stun break at random. But its much better to just nerf purify proc, as opposed to **** over 5/10 classes even more than already is.

BMs end game are actually quite tanky if built for support. Only thing going against them is purify proc **** up their locks, and a lack of damage which is made up for them being excellent supports. They are a bit prone to getting locked themselves, but the update on leaps, morai skills serves to balance that a bit. So the only thing that they really can't deal with is purify proc, and I'm all for rebalancing purify proc. As they say, if it ain't broken don't fix it. So fix what is broken instead.

I'd enjoy a fix to Purify Spell, but we know how likely that is. A change to a skill or skills is probably more likely, since every caster is in the mind set of "no taek muh pureh spelz". Plus, they actually re-balance skills, so it seems like something that's doable. Seekers got metal zerks, BMs got better leaps, etc.. etc... I don't see why a few more skills couldn't be tweaked to allow for a BM to be more effective at its job seeing as stunlocks have been rendered far less effective than they previously were both in 1v1 and in group PvP.

Unholly - Morai wrote: »

no, only demon roar was mentioned in the suggestion to go though anti stun unless im mistaken

QED: when zanryu said "Not at all what I'm suggesting." it was right he was not saying he wanted all stuns to go though anti stun.

Hahaha, sneaky Archer wearing daggers.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

His reason for wanting demon rotp to go through anti stun has been that it is supposed to always succeed. Being that he thinks it is the only one, he did in fact suggest that every 100% chance stun skill should work through anti stun. And hey, I'll misapply QED too..

QED

No other stun says "100% chance to stun" or "always succeeds". They simply say "stuns the target for x seconds". I'm not suggesting all stuns work through anti stun, just the one stun that suggests it should always work, which no other stun does to my knowledge.

Adroit - Lost City · May 2013

@zanrynoob - it is implied that a skill that isn't based on chance will "always succeed". Nice try bud

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

@zanrynoob - it is implied that a skill that isn't based on chance will "always succeed". Nice try bud

They don't specifically say they will always succeed, meaning there are conditions under which than can fail. Demon RotP specifically states that it will always succeed, leaving room for an update that would allow for it to truly do so. Even if that's not the intended purpose, it would still be a pretty decent update whether or not the wording on it would imply such a thing.

Nice try bud.

Tzyren - Archosaur · May 2013

Same person, different character. In the process of saving up to switch servers. Edit: Why the hell am I an archer? I'm a sin.

Personally I think Demon RoTP should remain the way it is. Yes, Blademasters lack significant damage, but then again, they will always be more of a support class rather than an Aoer. The closest the Blademaster can come to dealing significant damage is shouting "alalalalala" and terrorist HF bombing in IG before dropping as soon as IG finishes.

RoTP always succeeds under normal conditions, but to make it go past antistuns is basically nerfing apothecary, all antistuns of all classes, fortify/other genie skills, and sin tidal. The only one of these I see as being OP is tidal, and an assassin is naturally advantaged against a BM, just as it may have trouble with other classes (casters).

You might argue that RotP can't keep up with all the new developing skills, but I think a Blademaster has gotten enough variety of skills to effectively counter this:

Weapon Disable
Freeze Telestun (through fortify)
Smack

All of those will go through Fortify, and two through antistun. That seems like enough alternative CC to me - enough so that a Blademaster can quickly relock.

Besides, wouldn't we want to then make Demon Deep Sting work 100% of the time through antistun, too? Or perhaps sage Throatcut 100% of the time through Will Surge? If we consider elevating a particular skill, then we have to question whether all similar skills should also be improved, for not uplifting all of them would bring far more complaints than leaving the original skill alone in the first place.

Deadalus - Harshlands · May 2013

Well, stating, that you want to stun someone who has anti stun on him, is kinda silly. Why is there a anti stun skill/apo around? To revent yourself to get stunned? Maybe.. That would just defeat the whole purpose.

Its like in real life. Having antifreeze in your car prevent cooling water to freeze for example. But the product you are buying states, it will 100% keep the water unfreezed. But it freezes anyway, because f/uck logic. Thats the thing you want, right?

keep it going b:pleased

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Tzyren - Archosaur wrote: »

Same person, different character. In the process of saving up to switch servers. Edit: Why the hell am I an archer? I'm a sin.

Personally I think Demon RoTP should remain the way it is. Yes, Blademasters lack significant damage, but then again, they will always be more of a support class rather than an Aoer. The closest the Blademaster can come to dealing significant damage is shouting "alalalalala" and terrorist HF bombing in IG before dropping as soon as IG finishes.

RoTP always succeeds under normal conditions, but to make it go past antistuns is basically nerfing apothecary, all antistuns of all classes, fortify/other genie skills, and sin tidal. The only one of these I see as being OP is tidal, and an assassin is naturally advantaged against a BM, just as it may have trouble with other classes (casters).

It's not much of a nerf, considering that every other stun will still be resisted. One could hardly call it a nerf when only one class would be able to stun through it, and only for 6 seconds. With a skill that can only be used once during the duration of most antistuns. Can you honestly tell me there's another class that relies so heavily on stuns that any kind of antistun means they're almost useless for the duration, seeing as the person with antistun up can simply kite or do damage to them without much threat in return? The answer to that is no. This is why it seems to be a good update, it affects no other classes ability to DD, but gives BMs that slight edge they need against sins with Tidal and the ability to not be near worthless once an anti stun goes up. People will have to THINK before engaging and THINK about when to use antistuns.

You might argue that RotP can't keep up with all the new developing skills, but I think a Blademaster has gotten enough variety of skills to effectively counter this:

Weapon Disable
Freeze Telestun (through fortify)
Smack

All of those will go through Fortify, and two through antistun. That seems like enough alternative CC to me - enough so that a Blademaster can quickly relock.

Reckless Rush has a two minute cooldown and does not prevent the target from using skills to stun/seal/sleep you. They can also leap away. Smack lasts three seconds and does not prevent them from kiting by itself. Weapon disable does not prevent them from kiting or from using certain control skills/antistun skills. If any of those skills do allow you to re-lock it tends to be a tad situational.

Besides, wouldn't we want to then make Demon Deep Sting work 100% of the time through antistun, too? Or perhaps sage Throatcut 100% of the time through Will Surge? If we consider elevating a particular skill, then we have to question whether all similar skills should also be improved, for not uplifting all of them would bring far more complaints than leaving the original skill alone in the first place.

Demon Deep Sting's description is the same as most stuns, in that it "puts the target to sleep". It says nothing about always succeeding. Sage Throatcut seems fair enough, so we have two skills that could be updated. Not ALL skills, only ones that guarantee success. Honestly updating two skills to do something like that, one of which most people don't bother trying to resist, doesn't seem game breaking when they can still be broken out of or taken advantage of.

Is forcing people to become more skilled against one class really such a bad thing? I mean, a main argument for Purify Spell is that people just have to get more skilled and that's against half the classes in game with a far more broken mechanic. This seems insignificant in comparison. Especially as with the added suggestion from AdvanceZero that only the target should be affected by the antistun bypass, rather than other targets in the area of affect. It seems fairly balanced that way.

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

Well, stating, that you want to stun someone who has anti stun on him, is kinda silly. Why is there a anti stun skill/apo around? To revent yourself to get stunned? Maybe.. That would just defeat the whole purpose.

Its like in real life. Having antifreeze in your car prevent cooling water to freeze for example. But the product you are buying states, it will 100% keep the water unfreezed. But it freezes anyway, because f/uck logic. Thats the thing you want, right?

keep it going b:pleased

Saying it shouldn't is like saying an armor piercing round shouldn't penetrate metal because it's a bullet, and bullets don't do that. However, it's a stronger bullet which allows it to break through something that should defend against bullets in general. The same concept applies to Demon RotP, in that it would be a stun upgraded to a point where it's strong enough to go through antistun.

Deadalus - Harshlands · May 2013

Lets look at it:

○Roar of the Pride

Range　5meters
Mana　175.0
Channel　0.6　seconds
Cast　1.8　seconds
Cooldown　15-1　seconds
Weapon　Melee weapons

Requisite Cultivation　Aware of the Void
A raging roar stuns all enemies in a range of 10 meters for 6.0 seconds.
Higher skill level results in higher success rate.

Requires 35 Chi to cast.

Demon version has cooldown reduced by 1 second and always succeeds.

Its stating nowhere, that it succeeds 100%, but it says "always succeeds" which is kinda the same.
The description just lets you know, that the stun chance just increased to a state, where it cant fail, where on lv 10, it can fail with a small chance. This doesnt state, that its not resistable in any way. Its like missing on other classes, when an Archer wants to shoot Stunning arrow, there is 1 90% chance, that the target is stunned, when you hit. When you have 0 accuracy, you wont hit and the skill has a 0% chance to stun.
Nothing what would change the odds for having a stun skill which ignores the anti stun, but its basicly the same. I dont know, if Pridge can miss, although i dont think so, its still a 100% to stun an enemy, when the skill doesnt miss and the target doesnt have a protection on for it.

Thats it i guess.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

Lets look at it:

○Roar of the Pride

Range　5meters
Mana　175.0
Channel　0.6　seconds
Cast　1.8　seconds
Cooldown　15-1　seconds
Weapon　Melee weapons

Requisite Cultivation　Aware of the Void
A raging roar stuns all enemies in a range of 10 meters for 6.0 seconds.
Higher skill level results in higher success rate.

Requires 35 Chi to cast.

Demon version has cooldown reduced by 1 second and always succeeds.

Its stating nowhere, that it succeeds 100%, but it says "always succeeds" which is kinda the same.
The description just lets you know, that the stun chance just increased to a state, where it cant fail, where on lv 10, it can fail with a small chance. This doesnt state, that its not resistable in any way. Its like missing on other classes, when an Archer wants to shoot Stunning arrow, there is 1 90% chance, that the target is stunned, when you hit. When you have 0 accuracy, you wont hit and the skill has a 0% chance to stun.
Nothing what would change the odds for having a stun skill which ignores the anti stun, but its basicly the same. I dont know, if Pridge can miss, although i dont think so, its still a 100% to stun an enemy, when the skill doesnt miss and the target doesnt have a protection on for it.

Thats it i guess.

Perhaps, if other skills that stun didn't just say "stuns target". Those are 100%, but nowhere do the specifcally state that it always lands as is the case with Demon RotP. There's more to my argument than the description. Even so, with the description given to other stuns "always succeeds" greatly implies that it should bypass things that would resist it. Whether it does or doesn't and whether people think it should or shouldn't.

Stunning Arrow is a damage skill, Roar of the Pride is a utility skill. Roar does not have accuracy aside from its % chance to work, whereas Stunning Arrow and skills like it have to actually land then have a % chance to work. They aren't comparable as the way they're used is much different.

opkossy · May 2013

I'm against it and would simply prefer the other ability used as an example to not freeze through antistun.

Much like how I'm still annoyed that mystics have a PvP enabled knockback (don't QQ about how they need it, folks that I know would because I have a mystic and can say it's not some sort of needed or they'd just die skill) when no other class gets to have that benefit.

Oh and cleaned up some of the junk in here. Post for/against the suggestion and reasoning why. If you want to go around throwing insults and behaving like children take it to PM.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

OPKossy wrote: »

I'm against it and would simply prefer the other ability used as an example to not freeze through antistun.

Much like how I'm still annoyed that mystics have a PvP enabled knockback (don't QQ about how they need it, folks that I know would because I have a mystic and can say it's not some sort of needed or they'd just die skill) when no other class gets to have that benefit.

Oh and cleaned up some of the junk in here. Post for/against the suggestion and reasoning why. If you want to go around throwing insults and behaving like children take it to PM.

I'd like for Blinding Blaze to be fixed as well. And Mystic Knockback to not work. But hey, they're here and probably not getting fixed. Why not give a class that could REALLY use a bit of an edge exactly that?

opkossy · May 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'd like for Blinding Blaze to be fixed as well. And Mystic Knockback to not work. But hey, they're here and probably not getting fixed. Why not give a class that could REALLY use a bit of an edge exactly that?

I still like to hope and I'm not a fan of the idea of breaking something new to counter something else that's broken.

The only version of this I'd even consider is that earlier suggestion where it only has this added bonus on the person targeted and not those in range of them, however to do that would require far more effort than simply altering blinding blaze to perform like other skills, so it's even less likely.

That said, I had a post in mind with consideration to areas and places where this would be an issue (for one thing, if it always worked certain parts of PvE would become incredibly easy to cheese even for those it would normally still be some form of challenge for, as an example) but then realized that with the gear and player mentality we mostly see that it would be such a minority it's not even worth bothering to discuss.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

OPKossy wrote: »

I still like to hope and I'm not a fan of the idea of breaking something new to counter something else that's broken.

Really? PWE is. Though to be honest it wouldn't really break very much. Not in comparison to a lot of the things we do have. It amazes me to see this much negativity when PWE has slipped much worse right past us and the community just eats it up.

The only version of this I'd even consider is that earlier suggestion where it only has this added bonus on the person targeted and not those in range of them, however to do that would require far more effort than simply altering blinding blaze to perform like other skills, so it's even less likely.

It would be easier, but this isn't about Blinding Blaze, this is about Roar of the Pride.

That said, I had a post in mind with consideration to areas and places where this would be an issue (for one thing, if it always worked certain parts of PvE would become incredibly easy to cheese even for those it would normally still be some form of challenge for, as an example) but then realized that with the gear and player mentality we mostly see that it would be such a minority it's not even worth bothering to discuss.

Implying PvE isn't already incredibly easy. After you're in Nirvana +5 gear that's game over. PvE becomes easy to do. G16? R9? R9r3? Even easier. If anything it would help lower geared people manage certain things easier, though not as efficiently as high geared people. In order for a skill to work, you have to know when to use it afterall.

qwerty

Demon Roar of the Pride Update.

Comments

Categories