Demon Roar of the Pride Update.

Deadalus - Harshlands

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Perhaps, if other skills that stun didn't just say "stuns target". Those are 100%, but nowhere do the specifcally state that it always lands as is the case with Demon RotP. There's more to my argument than the description. Even so, with the description given to other stuns "always succeeds" greatly implies that it should bypass things that would resist it. Whether it does or doesn't and whether people think it should or shouldn't.

Stunning Arrow is a damage skill, Roar of the Pride is a utility skill. Roar does not have accuracy aside from its % chance to work, whereas Stunning Arrow and skills like it have to actually land then have a % chance to work. They aren't comparable as the way they're used is much different.

Ok your right, comparing a damage skill with a non damage skill is stupid.

Lets try another skill, Shadow Teleport (Sin) or Voidstep (Seeker) are the same exact skills which deals no damage and Stuns. With an Anti Stun popped in, you just Teleport to the enemy and thats it. Besides that "Resist!!" flying around, nothing happens. They are 100% success too.

The difference here is, that both of these skills never fail to begin with, they success with a chance of 100% from lv 1 and on. Pride doesnt. I think thats the reason, why the skill states, that it will never fail, because it could from lv 1 to 10.
Thats nothing more than letting you know, that this skill now hits the target for a 100% chance.

I know, that you still think, that it should stun regardless of the anti stun the enemy has on.. but hey this will never be the case. i hope b:shocked

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

Ok your right, comparing a damage skill with a non damage skill is stupid.

Lets try another skill, Shadow Teleport (Sin) or Voidstep (Seeker) are the same exact skills which deals no damage and Stuns. With an Anti Stun popped in, you just Teleport to the enemy and thats it. Besides that "Resist!!" flying around, nothing happens. They are 100% success too.

The difference here is, that both of these skills never fail to begin with, they success with a chance of 100% from lv 1 and on. Pride doesnt. I think thats the reason, why the skill states, that it will never fail, because it could from lv 1 to 10.
Thats nothing more than letting you know, that this skill now hits the target for a 100% chance.

I know, that you still think, that it should stun regardless of the anti stun the enemy has on.. but hey this will never be the case. i hope b:shocked

What's the point in arguing about the description, we know how the skill currently works and we know what it says. This gets us nowhere. I'm asking for an update to Roar based on improving a support class, not solely because of the description's wording. We can go back and forth on this for days and make no progress whatsoever. In any case, the skills that stun state that they stun. They don't say "always succeeds" or 100%. They say stun, meaning that being resisted is what should happen. Something that specifically states it always succeeds seems like it would supercede any rules currently set in place to negate the effect, as it always succeeds. Success through its counters is implied because of the context of the wording, considering that no other 100% stun specifically states that.

Deadalus - Harshlands

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What's the point in arguing about the description, we know how the skill currently works and we know what it says. This gets us nowhere. I'm asking for an update to Roar based on improving a support class, not solely because of the description's wording. We can go back and forth on this for days and make no progress whatsoever. In any case, the skills that stun state that they stun. They don't say "always succeeds" or 100%. They say stun, meaning that being resisted is what should happen. Something that specifically states it always succeeds seems like it would supercede any rules currently set in place to negate the effect, as it always succeeds. Success through its counters is implied because of the context of the wording, considering that no other 100% stun specifically states that.

Ehm, yes. First you say, its irrelevant, what the skill says, but then you are going all "oh but the skill says it".

As i said, the skill only lets you know, that its now never fail. Thats it.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

Ehm, yes. First you say, its irrelevant, what the skill says, but then you are going all "oh but the skill says it".

As i said, the skill only lets you know, that its now never fail. Thats it.

You're the one that wants to go over the description, it really is pointless to go over it time and time again. I simply made my viewpoint known.

Never fail. Never. Fail. Tell me what other stun specifically states that it always succeeds. None.

Can we stop talking about the description and talk about why or why not it's gamebreaking, or tweaks to be made.

So far I'm in favor of bypassing antistun of the actual target while acting as a regular stun on all other enemies in the AoE.

Azura - Lost City

I just had a brutal 2 hour session of pk with around 30 people involved. It was my faction against another one b:chuckle and I can tell your idea zannoob is ridiculous. There were so many bms that even our sage sin were getting locked, and our mages had a really hard time to do their job .

Although in the end we prevailed, everyone died around 15 times, but ofc they died a lot more, lol.

I hope there was interserver pk, you could learn so much from the bms in my server. None of them make stupid suggestions such as yours, they just go to pk and do their job.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

I just had a brutal 2 hour session of pk with around 30 people involved. It was my faction against another one b:chuckle and I can tell your idea zannoob is ridiculous. There were so many bms that even our sage sin were getting locked, and our mages had a really hard time to do their job .

Although in the end we prevailed, everyone died around 15 times, but ofc they died a lot more, lol.

I hope there was interserver pk, you could learn so much from the bms in my server. None of them make stupid suggestions such as yours, they just go to pk and do their job.

If they're anything like you I very much doubt it. Mine was a suggestion that has been somewhat built upon, and I have to say I very much like AdvanceZero's addition. How would Demon Roar functioning as it does on all targets but the one its being used on imbalanced? Group PvP and a BM's function in it would remain virtually the same, with the small change that BMs would be able to lock up one target through anti stun for six seconds. It makes them more effective without breaking group PvP.

Adroit - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It makes them more effective without breaking group PvP.

BMs don't need to be any more effective than they already are. Just curious, have you found a single end game character that is competent in pvp that agrees with you (that bms need some kind of boost or that purify needs a change?)

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

BMs don't need to be any more effective than they already are. Just curious, have you found a single end game character that is competent in pvp that agrees with you (that bms need some kind of boost or that purify needs a change?)

End game is not a requirement for competency, as you've proven many times. Judging from your posts it almost seems as if getting to end game corrupts people, making them piles of mush that spout absolute nonsense. Your requirements for my suggestion being good or not, whether or not "end game" people agree or not, is all irrelevant. What matters is good discussion and debate not blatant trolling and calling one another stupid. But that's what it boils down to isn't it? That's all you can do. Hide behind your little veil of end game superiority and claim everyone that disagrees with you is either incompetent or has no right to an opinion unless they're at the same level of gear.

BMs could use a boost to support, that or to their damage, because as it stands we're currently a great support class at the cost of damage. However, with all the anti stun and leaps we've got in the game our primary method of support has been rendered far less effective. Yes, it's still the best out there, but as our main method of winning fights and supporting our groups it's lackluster these days. An update to Roar could help that. Being able to lock down a key target just a bit better or being able to stun past Tidal or being able to lock down a Purify Spell'd caster could give BMs the edge they need in certain situations to come out on top, whereas otherwise they'd end up continuing in a game of cat and mouse and waste more and more chi, or flat out die.

We've already had one competent person agree that BMs need an update, not to Roar specifically but an update of some kind nontheless. As it stands, he seems far more competent than you. Now kindly leave my thread, or come back with something relevant to say. I'm not petty enough to sink down to your level and troll your or Azura's threads, I see no reason why someone as "great, competent, and amazing" as the wonderful Adroit to try and fail to harass me when I make a legitimate suggestion.

That's just silly.

Adroit - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

End game is not a requirement for competency, as you've proven many times. Judging from your posts it almost seems as if getting to end game corrupts people, making them piles of mush that spout absolute nonsense. Your requirements for my suggestion being good or not, whether or not "end game" people agree or not, is all irrelevant. What matters is good discussion and debate not blatant trolling and calling one another stupid. But that's what it boils down to isn't it? That's all you can do. Hide behind your little veil of end game superiority and claim everyone that disagrees with you is either incompetent or has no right to an opinion unless they're at the same level of gear.

BMs could use a boost to support, that or to their damage, because as it stands we're currently a great support class at the cost of damage. However, with all the anti stun and leaps we've got in the game our primary method of support has been rendered far less effective. Yes, it's still the best out there, but as our main method of winning fights and supporting our groups it's lackluster these days. An update to Roar could help that. Being able to lock down a key target just a bit better or being able to stun past Tidal or being able to lock down a Purify Spell'd caster could give BMs the edge they need in certain situations to come out on top, whereas otherwise they'd end up continuing in a game of cat and mouse and waste more and more chi, or flat out die.

We've already had one competent person agree that BMs need an update, not to Roar specifically but an update of some kind nontheless. As it stands, he seems far more competent than you. Now kindly leave my thread, or come back with something relevant to say. I'm not petty enough to sink down to your level and troll your or Azura's threads, I see no reason why someone as "great, competent, and amazing" as the wonderful Adroit to try and fail to harass me when I make a legitimate suggestion.

That's just silly.

So I'm curious, if you to 1v1 a sin where both of you were to take off all of your armor (except weapon).. who do you think would win? The answer is that the sin would, sins have the first hit advantage due to stealth (or tele stun).. and you have an extremely low chance of surviving through the lock long enough to retaliate. Now if you were to repeat that 1v1 in r9rr +12 josd gear (for both chars), it would actually be a fight.. and very difficult for either char to finish the other. The point being that the game is balanced for end game gear, not the **** that is before it. You are not end game, balance is created for end game, you do not understand what end game pvp is like, and therefore you are not qualified to talk about it (nor is anybody else that isn't familiar with end game PvP). Besides all that, you are absolute shet in pvp on your bm (judging from your videos).. even if you had end game gear.. you would still not be considered competent by any stretch of the imagination.

I'd like the name of the "competent" person that agrees with you.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

So I'm curious, if you to 1v1 a sin where both of you were to take off all of your armor (except weapon).. who do you think would win? The answer is that the sin would, sins have the first hit advantage due to stealth (or tele stun).. and you have an extremely low chance of surviving through the lock long enough to retaliate. Now if you were to repeat that 1v1 in r9rr +12 josd gear (for both chars), it would actually be a fight.. and very difficult for either char to finish the other. The point being that the game is balanced for end game gear, not the **** that is before it. You are not end game, balance is created for end game, you do not understand what end game pvp is like, and therefore you are not qualified to talk about it (nor is anybody else that isn't familiar with end game PvP). Besides all that, you are absolute shet in pvp on your bm (judging from your videos).. even if you had end game gear.. you would still not be considered competent by any stretch of the imagination.

I'd like the name of the "competent" person that agrees with you.

I understand end game fine. Enough to realize that certain things AREN'T actually as balanced as you believe, even at end game. It's less noticeable at end game sure, but that doesn't mean there's true balance. Some things get overlooked in 1v1 or overlooked in group PvP, but they're still there. I'm fairly certain people make good use of antistuns at end game just as they do mid-game. You should quit assuming that I'm referring only to situations that aren't end game.

Your opinion of me would mean something if it weren't inaccurate. How does someone that's not competent fight people with far superior gear in a game that's gear>skill, and manage to land kills on the people with higher gear? Because the people I fight suck? Maybe, but this game is pay to win. Better gear automatically has a massive advantage of anything below it.

skaitavia

In my opinion, asking for an AoE 6 second stun that works 100% of the time, regardless of any anti-stun (IG and Faith included, since they're technically both anti-stuns), is like sins asking for Tidal protection to be a 100% status evasion for 60 seconds.

I've read through the whole thread just in case, and though you do have a point Zan, what you're asking is a bit game-breaking, as it would confuse players quite a bit as to why anti-stuns don't work against just one skill. Maybe if the suggestion was a lower chi cost, or even a lower cooldown, then it would be more reasonable.

That's just my two cents.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Skaitavia wrote: »

In my opinion, asking for an AoE 6 second stun that works 100% of the time, regardless of any anti-stun (IG and Faith included, since they're technically both anti-stuns), is like sins asking for Tidal protection to be a 100% status evasion for 60 seconds.

I've read through the whole thread just in case, and though you do have a point Zan, what you're asking is a bit game-breaking, as it would confuse players quite a bit as to why anti-stuns don't work against just one skill. Maybe if the suggestion was a lower chi cost, or even a lower cooldown, then it would be more reasonable.

That's just my two cents.

It's not comparable, is it requires the target to be in range, can be broken out of, and has a 14 second cooldown. Tidal is up constantly for 60 seconds.

I like AdvanceZero's addition to my suggestion, I feel as if it balances it out very well. 1v1 it'll allow a BM more control over fights, in group PvP roar would act as it always has with the exception of the person targeted. People getting confused really doesn't mean much, people were confused when new classes came out. People were confused when genies came out. They didn't know how to combat them but with time they learned. It would be the same with Demon RotP, just much quicker. People would learn what it does.

How would Demon Roar of the Pride acting roughly the same in group PvP be gamebreaking? Stunning one person 100% of the time through antistun isn't that bad in group, as it's only one person. Anyone else can still get through the status with antistun or Tidal Protection.

What would you suggest?

Deadalus - Harshlands

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What would you suggest?

Give it a higher Chi cost, maybe 1 spark or 150 Chi. Then fine, go ahead.
The low cooldown compared to the high stun time is absolutly overpowered, when it ignores anti stun.

Tell me, what could a person do, if 2 BM's are on him? heck when timed, those two BM's could controll a whole squad alone and lock them up till the cow's come home. 12 Seconds of stun without any chance to block it, the skill that causes this has a 14 second cooldown and in those two seconds, you cant even pop in a anti stun.

Well good luck killing those BM's in the time you have. Add another BM and there, you can camp there.

As said, give it either a much higher chi cost then (100-150 Chi to cast) or increase the Cooldown (30-60 Seonds).

+ as i said the post before, the skill only tells you, that there is no failrate now, not including the case a anti stun is on. Yes its true, that ONLY THIS SKILL states, that it will success for 100% now, but only because it had a rate of fail from lv 1 to lv 10. Now, you are the one who wants this description to be forced in and ignore the anti stun.

wishfull thinking and never will be like this f:scared

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

Give it a higher Chi cost, maybe 1 spark or 150 Chi. Then fine, go ahead.
The low cooldown compared to the high stun time is absolutly overpowered, when it ignores anti stun.

14 seconds gives plenty of time for someone to do something. 35 chi is a rather large cost per use, especially when in order to actually be useful we require a lot of chi.

Tell me, what could a person do, if 2 BM's are on him? heck when timed, those two BM's could controll a whole squad alone and lock them up till the cow's come home. 12 Seconds of stun without any chance to block it, the skill that causes this has a 14 second cooldown and in those two seconds, you cant even pop in a anti stun.

Badge out. Leap away. Expel. Absolute Domain. Faith. Gee, nothing at all you can do to get out of a stun. It doesn't stand to reason that one person should beat two people by themselves, if it's in group PvP chances are that person is going to have support, in that setting the BMs won't get to wail on them indefinitely. Two BMs will have a 2 second time period where neither can Roar if they chain it back to back, those two seconds can be used to get away as well. It's not unbeatable, it's far from it. It just requires thought.

Well good luck killing those BM's in the time you have. Add another BM and there, you can camp there.

So let me get this straight, your issue is when there's more than one person on a target? Since when is it appropriate for one person to beat two or more people by themselves? In a 1v1 there wont' be multiple BMs chaining it, so it's irrelevant. In a group PvP setting there's going to be more than just the one person on one side. That person who might be the target of both BMs at once (MIGHT BE) will have support, keeping the BMs or whoever else might be on them busy. You act as if nobody will be targeting the BMs.

As said, give it either a much higher chi cost then (100-150 Chi to cast) or increase the Cooldown (30-60 Seonds).

Both of these suggestions would destroy the ability to stunlock or support very effectively without relying on Cloud Eruption or White Teas. Chi cost doesn't increase when you upgrade skills from level 10 to Sage/Demon, the effects get a boost or effects are added.

+ as i said the post before, the skill only tells you, that there is no failrate now, not including the case a anti stun is on. Yes its true, that ONLY THIS SKILL states, that it will success for 100% now, but only because it had a rate of fail from lv 1 to lv 10. Now, you are the one who wants this description to be forced in and ignore the anti stun.

wishfull thinking and never will be like this f:scared

I already told you arguing over wording gets us nowhere. You already know what I've said about it, I know what you've said, we're repeating ourselves. The wording implies that it would succeed through counters, since other stuns don't specifically state always succeeds as Roar of the Pride does.

Well isn't this fun.

Deadalus - Harshlands

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well isn't this fun.

actually it is, to see what you want here.

You tell me now, that Anti Stun should be ignored, but effects like AD or IG is perfectly fine? This makes no sense at all, when i look back to what you want, that it will NEVER FAIL

wtf f:meh

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

actually it is, to see what you want here.

You tell me now, that Anti Stun should be ignored, but effects like AD or IG is perfectly fine? This makes no sense at all, when i look back to what you want, that it will NEVER FAIL

wtf f:meh

AD and IG are full immunity, in much the same way I'm suggesting RotP be stronger than anti stun, full immunity is stronger than everything below it.* If I suggested they be bypassed as well I'd have my head chopped off, since so far nothing gets through those aside from DoTs placed on the target before the IG or AD was used. Now as much as it's been said that what I want is unbalanced and that I'm stupid, I can see that letting something go through an IG or AD or Sutra Power Orb is a tad unbalanced. Letting Roar of the Pride break through anti stun but still allowing plenty of options for breaking out or stopping the lock after RotP is used doesn't seem unbalanced so long as people know what they're doing. Especially when it would function almost the same as it does now in group PvP, people just have to be smart.

*Basically, it'd be like this: Full Immunity > Roar of the Pride > Antistun > Stun/Sleep/Freeze.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Indeed you can, much of this game in my experience is tricking someone to waste their resources so you can go in for the kill, unless you're able to simply overpower them. For BMs, resource wasting tends to be what has to happen, at least in my experience. In order to lock someone with Bash and RotP it requires good timing, there's time between them for instant cast skills such as the Archer 79 skill or BM/Sin/Sage Seeker anti stun. Badge/Expel/Domain/Faith are also still options. Not all BMs will take advantage of that, and in fact it could be used to the advantage of other classes. If a BM opens with Bash that's 1 spark gone, wait out the stun for Roar, then badge out of it or cast an instant cast antistun after. The BM is down by one spark at least after that. Psychics can use their stun indefinitely, on a 30 second cooldown and once it's up, it's up until it's ready to go again. A BM, in order to stun for the same duration, requires 1 spark 35 chi. It can only be done 3 times assuming chi is not used for anything else. If apothecary is used for anything but chi that means a Psychic could outlast our stun for much less cost, along with having long range control skills. They can force genies/apo/anti-CC without having to actually do anything, even with antistun resisting Roar a BM can't force those simply by standing there. What people seem to forget is the large chi cost of a stunlock, which truly does factor in

Well, if you time your skills extremely well, you can prevent someone from casting their instant anti stun. So I don't feel that the fact that other classes have instant anti stun is a problem. Psychic stun cost no chi yes, but it is easily avoided. In addition, it also makes them the squishiest arcane. Meanwhile, BM is probably one of the most tankiest classes out there, and an unavoidable stun would make it well, unavoidable. You can in a way force apoth and genie because most classes without apoth and genie will fail to do enough damage to kill you. It's just a different way of looking at it. To be honest, your chi problem can be alleviated by switching to sage. That is a cultivation problem, not a class problem. It's like a sage wizard complaining that wizards don't have enough CC or defense. Switching to demon gives them alot more CC and 30% more pdef.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The point of having more than one person on someone is to kill them, that's why you focus fire people in group PvP. To eliminate them. Now while that could be problematic, it's still resistable via geni. Of course, I liked what AdvanceZero suggested, making it only stun past antistun on the person targetted, while all others will only have the regular 100% success rate. It allows a BM better support in both 1v1 and group PvP without being completely unbeatable, as anti stun will still work against it should you not be its primary target. People passing through while antistunned get away, people not antistunned get, well.. stunned.

Of course, but when you get a 100% stun, it's a 100% kill. A 14 second cool down is not long honestly. Badge cools down in 30 seconds. Faith in 1 minute. AD in 3 minutes. You can stun someone twice while they can only escape once.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'd enjoy a fix to Purify Spell, but we know how likely that is. A change to a skill or skills is probably more likely, since every caster is in the mind set of "no taek muh pureh spelz". Plus, they actually re-balance skills, so it seems like something that's doable. Seekers got metal zerks, BMs got better leaps, etc.. etc... I don't see why a few more skills couldn't be tweaked to allow for a BM to be more effective at its job seeing as stunlocks have been rendered far less effective than they previously were both in 1v1 and in group PvP.

They can change anything they set their minds to. It is much easier from a programming perspective to just change the buffs given when purify procs. If they were to update roar, it would affect every single class, not to method they would have to code a completely separate buff so that it negates anti-stun, but only for the person you targeted. Those who don't have purify spell will be nerfed even more. Those who do have purify spell will be slightly nerfed only. They would have to update every single class to rebalance with that since classes like archers are completely screwed cause aside from anti stun, they have nothing else. BMs are gimped cause they're only using 1/4th of all their skills. Instead, PWI should allow proper usage of all 4 bm weapon path by introducing competitive R9rr weapon for all skill trees. As a demon bm, you have a free stun with your pole as well. PWI could instead update that skill to make it more usable.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well, if you time your skills extremely well, you can prevent someone from casting their instant anti stun. So I don't feel that the fact that other classes have instant anti stun is a problem. Psychic stun cost no chi yes, but it is easily avoided. In addition, it also makes them the squishiest arcane. Meanwhile, BM is probably one of the most tankiest classes out there, and an unavoidable stun would make it well, unavoidable. You can in a way force apoth and genie because most classes without apoth and genie will fail to do enough damage to kill you. It's just a different way of looking at it. To be honest, your chi problem can be alleviated by switching to sage. That is a cultivation problem, not a class problem. It's like a sage wizard complaining that wizards don't have enough CC or defense. Switching to demon gives them alot more CC and 30% more pdef.

If you time skills well enough to prevent the antistun from being used in the first place, then does it matter if the skill is able to go through them? Out of the HA classes BMs are the least tanky, Seekers have 30 defense levels and Barbs have massive amounts of HP with Solid Shield and Invoke. BMs get Marrows which weaken one defense to boost the other. BMs depend on stuns, that's the idea behind them. There are Arcane classes that can tank as well as us. Wizards? Venos? Both of those can get HA like defense without sacrificing Mdef, sure one of them has to play defensively to do so but it's still a possibility. For a BM to reach comparable Mdef they have to sacrifice a large amount of Pdef.

If the other person plays smartly and knows how to use their resources, they can kill a BM. It may not be easy but it's definitely possible. A lot of classes can simply anti stun and run in without being too scared. Seeker, Barb, Veno, Wizard, Cleric, Mystic. With antistun they can take most of what we can dish out, get a bit of distance, do whatever they wish. A forced stun through anti-stun would make them and others have to think twice about how to handle a BM. We're not the easiest to bring down, but we're far from the hardest.

The chi's not so much the issue here, it's expending so much for so little gain in some cases. I'm not asking for Sages to get their roar updated, reduced chi cost fits the Sage playstyle. Updating Demon RotP would make that chi mean something, rather than being wasted so easily in quite a few cases.



Of course, but when you get a 100% stun, it's a 100% kill. A 14 second cool down is not long honestly. Badge cools down in 30 seconds. Faith in 1 minute. AD in 3 minutes. You can stun someone twice while they can only escape once.

There are more options for escaping than there are for the unavoidable stun. Fortify after roar is one, should you get caught after that chances are you'll have enough for Badge, that's two. Expel is an option after Roar, it'll last for the full duration of an Occult Ice after so even if you're occulted unless the BM wastes apo on wood damage, you're gonna be able to gain some distance.


They can change anything they set their minds to. It is much easier from a programming perspective to just change the buffs given when purify procs. If they were to update roar, it would affect every single class, not to method they would have to code a completely separate buff so that it negates anti-stun, but only for the person you targeted. Those who don't have purify spell will be nerfed even more. Those who do have purify spell will be slightly nerfed only. They would have to update every single class to rebalance with that since classes like archers are completely screwed cause aside from anti stun, they have nothing else. BMs are gimped cause they're only using 1/4th of all their skills. Instead, PWI should allow proper usage of all 4 bm weapon path by introducing competitive R9rr weapon for all skill trees. As a demon bm, you have a free stun with your pole as well. PWI could instead update that skill to make it more usable.

This isn't about Purify Spell. Purify Spell affected every single class, regardless of coding involved. It's not so much that people without Purify Spell are nerfed, but that people with it have moved into a whole other league because of it. 5 Classes get Purify Spell, only one would receive a stun that goes through anti stun. One of those has one counter while the other has multiple counters respectively. Both affect all classes.

Archers at end game are tanky enough to handle a 6 second stun, not to mention they can hold a BM at range unless the BM uses 50 chi-1 spark, possibly more just to actually get in an Archer's range. If an Archer dies in the duration of one RotP then that Archer is doing something horribly wrong. Archers have leaps, stun, freeze, and shells to help stay alive. At equal gear they aren't so squishy that they'll die in just one stun, and their anti stun will still allow them to get away from the next round of resistable stuns.

That free stun is only a 33% chance, it's not even close to being reliable. Even if we did have an extra stun, unless it was free or had some kind of perk to it, it'll be easily resisted like all the others.

Tell me, would you prefer to have but one skill updated on a particular class that makes it a bit harder to beat them 1v1 and doesn't do much for them in group PvP, or would you prefer they receive higher damage on most kills, a total rebalance of stuns/CC, or something of that nature?

What would you suggest to improve BMs, since you agree that they're in need of an update of some sort?

Deadalus - Harshlands

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

since so far nothing gets through those aside from DoTs placed on the target before the IG or AD was used.

If im not mistaken, some Psychic skills can bypass Immunity (AD, IG and the weaker ones).

I think, the combination of an skill which has rather low chi cost compared with a short cooldown, beeing an AOE Stun and a pretty long stun aswell makes the skill very strong already.
Adding the feature, that it bypasses the ability to actually block a stun would be just too much.

Also this skill isnt the onle skill which has some good effects, BMs has other skills aswell like Seal, freeze and some more Stun skills. Go, use them.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

If im not mistaken, some Psychic skills can bypass Immunity (AD, IG and the weaker ones).

I think, the combination of an skill which has rather low chi cost compared with a short cooldown, beeing an AOE Stun and a pretty long stun aswell makes the skill very strong already.
Adding the feature, that it bypasses the ability to actually block a stun would be just too much.

Also this skill isnt the onle skill which has some good effects, BMs has other skills aswell like Seal, freeze and some more Stun skills. Go, use them.

DoTs used before damage immunity will still damage the target. If you don't like it for Roar then do it for both Demon and Sage Drake Bash since you have such issue with the chi cost. Also, they're not AoE. Is that more suitable?

tsyfall

Oh, you silly GMs!
Of all the knowledgeable, logical, and experienced forum posters you could listen to... you listen to Zanryu?
Stuns through antistun, I guess.

Be careful what you wish for, kids!

I apologize for the necro, but someone had to do this.

SweetieBot - Lothranis

tsyfall wrote: »

Oh, you silly GMs!

Of all the knowledgeable, logical, and experienced forum posters you could listen to... you listen to

Zanryu?


Stuns through antistun, I guess.


Be careful what you wish for, kids!


I apologize for the necro, but someone had to do this.

NECROOO!!!!!!!

tsyfall replied to a message that was 7 months 13 days 8 hours 28 minutes old.

opkossy

tsyfall wrote: »

Oh, you silly GMs!
Of all the knowledgeable, logical, and experienced forum posters you could listen to... you listen to Zanryu?
Stuns through antistun, I guess.

Be careful what you wish for, kids!

I apologize for the necro, but someone had to do this.

Go tell that to the folks in China too for a good laugh. b:chuckle

Now to kill the zombie.