Gear advice on soloing TT 3-3

Sorry for the late reply, all.

@Saku :

Yes, both my Sin and BM are Demon.

1. It is doable to solo TT 3-3 with my BM, but it is both pot and charm r*pe for me, even with marrow and Bell spam. To put this in context, this is the gear setup that I am using for my BM, which is slightly different, but has very similar stat outcome : http://pwcalc.com/b53912c690fafaa7

Summary comparison from both setup :

BM = 2.86/4.0 aps, higher dmg (fist mastery), slightly better pdef and mdef with demon magical marrow, 4000 accuracy
Sin = 3.33/5.0 aps, lower damage (no fist mastery), slightly lower pdef and mdef, 3200 accuracy

2. Indeed, we can totally ignore stealth due to the necessary mob counts. The main reason I am leaning towards Sin, is due to overwhelming numbers of :

Defensive maneuvers : Rib Strike, Focused Mind, Tidal Protection, Deaden Nerves
Offensive maneuvers : Wolf Emblem, Power Dash

3. So far with BM, I have only used Demon Bell and Heaven Flame throughout the run. This seems pale in comparison, compared to Sin's skills mentioned above. This, and also the fact that I hate spamming Demon Bell every spark ~15sec.


@Hruns :

Indeed, I am 120% agree to the idea that classic pure-dex LA sin beat this HA Fist sin, out of the water. However, I have been playing the game all this time under this assumption :

Normal low-mid refine LA sin would definitely have survivability issue soloing high-level instance.
It is however, completely feasible and efficient once high refine gears are acquired.

Thus, it was my preference to focus on HA gear for my BM, instead of LA gear for my Sin.

Another thing that pushes me towards HA, was, I spent quite sometime in every TT 3-3 boss fight, paralyzed (stun, sleep, seal). I can survive by getting hp back from BP, that's great. However, in cases when I am unable to attack, I need to be able to survive until the paralyze is off. This is when the high pdef and mdef from HA comes in handy.

Please note, this was my old assumption before I realise Focused Mind basically offers similar advantage.
(This is another interesting topic to discuss, imo - def stat vs focused mind).

Of course, I can always gear up my Sin to be a pure dex LA sin. However, spending another 1.5 1.5 -2billions to acquire +10 LA gears, is really not the luxury that I can afford at this time.

If I had known the true capabilities of sin back then, I would definitely focus on LA gear for my sin, instead of my BM.


@Fissile :

1. I usually do the whole run on BM, the Sin just tailing behind to provide BP whenever it wears off.

2. Yes, I do think it is very nice that none of the bosses purge. Imagine if they do.

3. I am not expecting to complete the run in much faster time than what the BM does. I am aware that the damage is severely gimped by making a HA Fist Sin. However, what I do expect is considerable jump in survivability (HA pdef+mdef combined with Focused Mind, etc.) - am I too naive to have such thought?

That makes sense. However, instead of having 14k pdef and 5k mdef, I would rather have 12k pdef and 9k mdef. The occassional magic attack from boss is also things that kills most people. I think it is more about finding the right balance.

I am ignoring the refine on ring, as I already have quite high pdef value. Of course it would be nice to have that refined as well, but I won't notice any noticeable difference, even with +5 refine. Only +10 refine will start to add another 1k-1.5k to my pdef, that's when you can start to notice the subtle upgrade.

Yes, but I cap the Dex as soon as I reach 160-170.
If you want to see more details, feel free to see my setup @ first post.

It is definitely up to your decision, but every pros here (including the amateur me) would say it is a very bad idea. In my opinion, if you are still working up your sin, it is much better and rewarding in the future to focus on the classic pure-dex LA armor Dagger sin.

The cons that you listed are correct.

However, to put this into perspective. I created two gear setups :

PWcalc URL Edited, credits to dblazen :

LA dagger sin with +7 Armors : http://pwcalc.com/77a1baa90f6c1c79
HA fist sin with +7 Armors : http://pwcalc.com/cfd42fc18202be5b

Patk per hit = 18203 vs 15734
Crit % = 36% vs 19%
Acc = 7400 vs 3200

HP = 12600 vs 9100
Pdef = 68% vs 77%
Mdef = 62% vs 66%
Eva = 3100 vs 1400

Damage wise, no one can deny that the LA dagger sin is much superior, correct?

Just to provide a comparison on total damage per hit :

LA dagger sin = 18203 (patk) * 1.36 (crit) = 24,756
HA fist sin = 15734 (patk) * 1.19 (crit) = 18,723

Thus, using the HA sin setup basically reduce the damage by (24756 - 18723) / 24756 =24.4%

24.4% damage lost, is it huge? of course.
Does it worth the increase in HP and def ? maybe.
But personally, I don't think 24.4% damage is that "big" of a lost as you might have assumed.

I would like to get everyone opinion on this, especially the drop of accuracy and evasion? does this affect greatly in boss fights?

Also, please note that you will take less damage from boss due to the increased def, so you basically require less amount of HP gained from BP. This is also subject to discussion, does the increased defense == less amount of HP from BP?

One thing to note, without putting Wolf Emblem + Power Dash vs Heaven Flame into equation, this BM setup actually does less damage than HA fist Sin, due to loss of APS (2.86 / 4.0 aps)

http://pwcalc.com/bee4d1a41b88b61e

If I am to compare the damage of the HA Fist BM +7 armor with the previous HA Fist Sin +7 armor above :

Patk per hit = 17587 vs 15734
Crit % = 20% vs 19%
Acc = 3800 vs 3200
APS = 4.0 vs 5.0

Damage per hit

HA fist bm = 17587 (patk) * 1.2 (crit) = 21,104
HA fist sin = 15734 (patk) * 1.19 (crit) = 18,723

Damage per second

HA fist bm = 21104 (dph) * 4.0 (aps) = 84,417
HA fist sin = 18723(dph) * .0 (aps) = 93,615

Percentage : (93615 - 84417) / 84417 = 10.9%
The HA fist sin deals 10.9% more damage than similarly geared HA fist BM with Demon fist-mastery.

It's shocking, isn't it?

Well, I agree under normal circumstances comparing 4aps with 5aps is unfair.

However, you need to understand my reason behind it. The only way I can make the BM 5aps is by taking off the HA G16 Boots + Arm, and replaced it with Ashura's Boots and Arm.

Not only will I lost quite a few hundreds HP from downgrading 2 pieces of G16->G12, I also lost considerable pdef and mdef. This defeat my main purpose to create a def-balanced character.

(Instead of 15000 pdef / 5500 mdef, I would rather have 14000 pdef / 10000 mdef)

I do agree with your point that run will be 25% slower. Thus, 25% more risk.

Given the options, would you rather use 2x Lunar rings or 2x CoA rings?

Edit:

My miss, I forgot to add Demon Magic Marrow to your BM setup, which turns 15000 / 5500 def to 10000/ 10000, which is not bad.

I guess 5aps with 10000 / 10000 def is better than 4aps 14000 / 10000 def ?

Thanks for the clarification.
I have updated the PWcalc url to view HA Fist sin with +10 Fist instead of +12.

Don't worry though, because all the calculation that I wrote after, has always based on the PWcalc with +10 Fist.
(I guess I forgot to Save the PWcalc setup with +10 Fist, before I post it earlier today).

TL;DR : PWcalc URL was wrong, is now fixed. Calculation is unaffected.