Gear advice on soloing TT 3-3

Deadalus - Harshlands

Good points you brought up there.

But i found some flaws, like g16 claws on a barb would never match the DPS a r9 sin would do at same refine, let alone r9r or r9rr.
I agree, that g16 daggers deal more damage then r9 do at same refine, but that has nothing to do with barb using Claws.

You wont get 200k DPS on a ? Boss, thats for sure, so your heals arent as powerfull as you make them out. The critrate of your Barb/BM is 35%? Skilled DEX instead of STR? Full STR ones dont have such high Critrate. I think you mean 15%, because you said you have 20% less, so its ok, a typo i assume.

I forgott, that true form had its cooldown reduced, thats right. Got me there ;p

You mentioned all the good things a Barb has and with devour and all that, but do you thought about Sin buffs too?
Power Dash on one hand is a good example, you can use this one after every second spark which grands you 40% more Critrate for 8 seconds, so you are sitting at 80% Critrate for 8 seconds, thats like double the damage for a brief moment.

Ofc Power Dash isnt permanent as like Devour, but keep in mind, that Sins dont have to switch weapons for that and switch forms, the just use it and go. Barbs cant do that.

A friend of mine has a APS barb and i saw him in action (TT100 fists +10 back in the Nirvana days) and he deals good damage, but the damage is behind the damage from a BM.
Barb dont have masterys for fists or claws, which reduces the damage quiet good.
In Nirvana, when he was in the squad (TT100 +10 fist 5aps Barb, 5aps g13 Claw +10 BM, g13+10 5aps sin and a second 5aps g15+10 sin) the aggro was like this:

G15 Sin
G13 Sin
G13 BM
TT100 Barb

So in terms of DPS, Barb is far less effective then BM's or Sin's. I think it would be the same like an Archer going fists. But the archer cant have BP, thats the droppoint.

Barb has more DEF then a BM, wenn i cant confirm that too well, because barb would use the same equipment as the BM and would have the same DEF as the BM.


I see it like this: Going Fist/Claw barb to survive more in PvE is like having an heavy sin, which is quiet the same. dealing less damage to survive more. i would go for heavy sin. Just because of the 1on1 survive skills they have in PvE (Tidal protection, Deaden Nerves, Bloodpaint when debuffed, Focused Mind). But thats maybe because my main is a sin hehe

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

Good points you brought up there.

But i found some flaws, like g16 claws on a barb would never match the DPS a r9 sin would do at same refine, let alone r9r or r9rr.
I agree, that g16 daggers deal more damage then r9 do at same refine, but that has nothing to do with barb using Claws.

he never said they did the same damage on different characters. He said that the extra defence more than ofsets the damage and thus BP heal difference

You wont get 200k DPS on a ? Boss, thats for sure, so your heals arent as powerfull as you make them out. The critrate of your Barb/BM is 35%? Skilled DEX instead of STR? Full STR ones dont have such high Critrate. I think you mean 15%, because you said you have 20% less, so its ok, a typo i assume.

Indeed you wont get nearly that much heals, but neither will the sin. The difference between sin and barb remains about 20% even if the damage is devided by 4 for each of them. got 25% here. So you each seem to be exagurating 10% in a different direction.

G15 Sin
G13 Sin
G13 BM
TT100 Barb

what use is it to compare these ? Its like comparing racing skills in a fiat vs a ferrari ?

So in terms of DPS, Barb is far less effective then BM's or Sin's.

yes Sins > BM > Barb. Probably 10% difference between each or so, seems to me a bit less between barbs and BMs actually. But the point was that defences more than make up for the BP heal difference so while you might take slightly longer to kill the boss, its much safer and since a lot of the time is spend running from one boss to the next, the total time isnt so much longer.



Barb has more DEF then a BM, wenn i cant confirm that too well, because barb would use the same equipment as the BM and would have the same DEF as the BM.

I dont really think barb has more def than BM. They are very identical in both damage and defences. Barb has a bit more HP, BM has a bit more damage. I respect BMs fully as being nothing worse than barbs in APS. My demon barbs name is WannaBM

And dont forget the most important factor of all. barbs are cool, cute, furry, fun, respectable. Sins are ... well ill keep it diplomatic... "none of those" (BMs are all except furry and sometimes cute). For me its not about barb being a better choise than a sin (it seems to me that they are just slightly different playstyles and not so much about which is better) Its about loving barbs and wanting to be versatile. I can swich to axes and pull+tank+aoe kill anything, i can swich to fists and solo anyt single target. All while being cool, cute and furry. Having all that, i am more than satisfied being equally good an APSer as is a sin and dont need to be better.

Deadalus - Harshlands

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

And dont forget the most important factor of all. barbs are cool, cute, furry, fun, respectable. Sins are ... well ill keep it diplomatic... "none of those" (BMs are all except furry and sometimes cute). For me its not about barb being a better choise than a sin (it seems to me that they are just slightly different playstyles and not so much about which is better) Its about loving barbs and wanting to be versatile. I can swich to axes and pull+tank+aoe kill anything, i can swich to fists and solo anyt single target. All while being cool, cute and furry. Having all that, i am more than satisfied being equally good an APSer as is a sin and dont need to be better.

I respect that opinion very well and i was just doing numbers where Time/profit is the matter and nothing can compare with the sin farming machine lol.

Just play, what you are enjoying and just do, whatever you want, its a game, play outside of the norm, its fine for me. Doesnt mean its a very good way to play a character.
You can go and make a 5aps wizzard or an Axe Sin, who cares. Aslong as you have fun with it =P

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

I respect that opinion very well and i was just doing numbers where Time/profit is the matter and nothing can compare with the sin farming machine lol.

Did you take into your calculation the fact that more than half the time of your TT run is spent buffing, traveling, opening, running and killing mobs ? This should reduce the extra 20% damage from your sin to a mere few % faster speed on your total runs. Against that is a reduced chance of dying and less charm/pot requirements. I think it ends up being very close. As i said, im more than happy being about equally good at it, just a different style.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Reason why barbs are best APS class: you can APS with pieces of R9 armor, and you're not an archer

http://pwcalc.com/cf22dce4b5753533 <-- not very realistic but just throwing it out there

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

BTW all bull**** aside. Equal gear, weapon +10, 3x +7 on armors remaining +5.

Barb
DPS: 153k7
def: 20%*
eff HP: 65000

Sin
DPS: 193k6
def: 33%
eff HP: 26000

* % of damage taken. Edit i forgot to take def levels into account. But they are an equal 15 for each so that doesnt matter.

Meaning the barb does 20,7 % less dmg than the sin. (or the sin does 26% more than the barb)
While the barb receives 40% less dmg than the sin. (or the sin receives 65% more than the barb)
And the sin has 60% less effective HP (or the barb has 150% more effective HP)

Meaning with 40% less dmg taken vs 20,7% less painheals received, the barb has indeed a significantly better ratio of healing vs incoming damage.
Besides that he can receive more damage before his charm ticks than what will actually kill the sin.

PS, i didnt calculate 2 percentages with the second one between () for no reason. Dont start replying and taking only the number that fits your side of the argument. Use always the lowest or always the highest of the 2.

And yes, i didnt factor in the magic defence which is slightly better for sins because most of what we receive in these runs is physical anyways.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

I'll give you my version, sins = squishy = stressful. BM = not squishy = oh whooops, charm tick, meh.

Auto pot helps in boss fights now and avoids most of my ummmmm.....deaths. I don't go with charms. My friend has about 18k hp buffed as a bm, she tanks bosses with just sparking b:dirty if she gets purged. I die with 7k hp as a bm b:laugh.

I find that a sins requires much higher refines and higher apoc, charm cost to start farming 3-3. A bm can start earlier on lower refines.

Everyone is throwing around numbers. It all boils down to one thing, when we are farming, do we look at the time? When some things hit the fan, can't do a thing about it but to raise the necron alts and rebuff the main/s. Sometimes you get killed by 1 damage b:shutup.

As for the OP, the same build on the bm would take you further than on the sin. You can be a player that uses skills or simply get so much hp that a boss can not kill you easily.

Deadalus - Harshlands

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

Did you take into your calculation the fact that more than half the time of your TT run is spent buffing, traveling, opening, running and killing mobs ? This should reduce the extra 20% damage from your sin to a mere few % faster speed on your total runs. Against that is a reduced chance of dying and less charm/pot requirements. I think it ends up being very close. As i said, im more than happy being about equally good at it, just a different style.

Yea, well i didnt but in killing monsters, sins have a huge advantage, because they can stealth and teleport through walls and doors. So he can reach the mobcounter way faster and can just walk to the bosses.
I really doubt, that anyone will do a full TT 3-2 or 3-3 run just alone, because it would just take too long and its stressfull.
I do it duo and its fine, both control two chars (Me Sin and barb, My buddy BM and Cleric/Veno).
That way we doing it really fast and a good talk too.

As most of us already know, 10k HP is more then enough to do TT 3-3 just fine except for some cases like debuff from GBA or 5aps beeing a je/rk. ofc Armageddon is a pain too but isnt too hard to get down.
For a farming toon only, Sin would be the best with around 12~15k HP and would never die, when played good.
When your main is a Barb, noone will stop you going APS even with r9 parts. Why not? Its your main.


But lets just end this and say, both are good, when played well. Play, what you prefer b:pleased

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

I do it duo and its fine, both control two chars (Me Sin and barb, My buddy BM and Cleric/Veno).

ye, exactly my plan The secondary accounts (sin and cleric)only be morai equipment though, they are just there for supporting.

Deadalus - Harshlands

Morai equipment actually is very impressive... in PvE. The 60 Slaying Lv on g15 daggers are sooo sweet, will out DD g15 by far and i never done calculations but i would say, they deal equal damage then g16 ones.

At cleric, well morai isnt too good there, for the weapon atleast. Heal is poor, but the warding lv's are fine, doing their job better then some def lvls.
Go ahead b:victory

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Deadalus - Harshlands wrote: »

Morai equipment actually is very impressive... in PvE. The 60 Slaying Lv on g15 daggers are sooo sweet, will out DD g15 by far and i never done calculations but i would say, they deal equal damage then g16 ones.

At cleric, well morai isnt too good there, for the weapon atleast. Heal is poor, but the warding lv's are fine, doing their job better then some def lvls.
Go ahead b:victory

I did calculations on the armors and they refine so terrible that even at low refines they are barely any better than normal G15 and G16 are way much better. I think it is the same for weapons actually. But i didnt check that because the slaying/attack levels are unimportant for the cleric, and since the sin is not getting APS, and non-aps damage is insignificant, he gets max survive and a G6 weapon or so.

Deadalus - Harshlands

Hmmm.

Well for the cleric, isnt it important to survive too? So g16 set is best till you get the DEF Lv set effect.
Then a phy def cape and there, best.

But support as a sin? spamming subsea? i would suggest a better class then, maybe a veno.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

i want BM, barb, cleric, sin because those are the chars providing the needed buffs. no messing with logging different chars when anyone dies.

Barb and Bms are our mains so they are the proper equiped ones. Both the sin and cleric are purely equiped for survival at low investment cost. I considered equiping the sin with G16 HA and r8r def level weapon but decided that this should be sufficient at a fraction of the cost. The sin ldesign ooks like this
they are still in production though, i am still traveling for 12 more days, meanwhile my friend is doing Morai