Sage Intense Form

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  • Kwandelan - Heavens Tear
    Kwandelan - Heavens Tear Posts: 164 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    Myself, Im not gonna argue about barbs going Demon for the aps/nirvana w/e.
    However, most -lemme say it again, MOST- rich players who chose to make a barb alt chose to go demon, coz with the op r9s1/s2/s3 gear they didnt cared much about the 10% hp boost the Sages received. They saw a clear benefit going demon coz there's hell lot of demon skills that are way better than their sage counterparts. And again, there's hell lot of rich players out there, 90% of them playing a Demon barb instead of sage. (Im only talking about people with endgame op gear).
    Secondly, the 50% weapon damage reduction penalty the Sages received was not really that much as a big reduction so as to have an influence that could severely imbalance the paths. By removing the penalty, PW has only tried to level the playing field for those who chose to play Sage - and that too, only by a small extent.

    ACTUALLY, this might sound contrary to what I have said above, but I know its kinda somewhat unfair to the Demons when it comes to balancing true forms.
    BUT at the same time, I do feel, if you think of it properly(logically? -idk the appropriate word here), Demons seem to be still a way better option than Sages...so I dont really see the point behind all the Demons crying over a very minor boost the Sages received.
  • Demon___Elf - Heavens Tear
    Demon___Elf - Heavens Tear Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    Omg like really is that bad we got full damage i went sage almost 3 half years ago cause i was a cata barb but i switched too str vit build now there good in sage and demon its want you want to play has or the skills you get in either choice.
  • HrunsPanda - Archosaur
    HrunsPanda - Archosaur Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    stupid question: (dont got game client around to see for myself)

    Comes the fugly new panda form INSTEAD of tiger form, or is it an aditional 3th form ? I sure hope i can avoid it for a slong as possible really. I dont wanna look like that....
  • Kwandelan - Heavens Tear
    Kwandelan - Heavens Tear Posts: 164 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »
    stupid question: (dont got game client around to see for myself)

    Comes the fugly new panda form INSTEAD of tiger form, or is it an aditional 3th form ? I sure hope i can avoid it for a slong as possible really. I dont wanna look like that....

    You have both tiger form and panda form.
  • Panzzy - Sanctuary
    Panzzy - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »
    stupid question: (dont got game client around to see for myself)

    Comes the fugly new panda form INSTEAD of tiger form, or is it an aditional 3th form ? I sure hope i can avoid it for a slong as possible really. I dont wanna look like that....

    do you mean 3rd? clearly this post has gone on long enough. this is getting old with all the demon barbs bickering for sage having full dmg and 7 pages is just getting ridiculous, go to GMs and talk to them about it since they are supposedly listening to the players. or get a celestial schism mold! :D sanc barbs will get it my treat b:victory
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    Kwandelan - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    However, most -lemme say it again, MOST- rich players who chose to make a barb alt chose to go demon, coz with the op r9s1/s2/s3 gear they didnt cared much about the 10% hp boost the Sages received.

    I'd actually disagree. Most of the richer players are competitive and in a TW faction. TW factions LF sage barbs mostly so most barbs that wanted to do group pk or join a TW faction have gone sage to pull a cata. Demon is great 1v1, sure, and aps barbs are debatable in pvp (I think they do great but others will disagree), but for group pvp sage is what people prefer. Not to mention their renewed popularity for flag running in NW.

    Also, there is a huge E-peen driven highest hp contest among barbs and so alot really would rather pick more hp than actually having aggro and tanking.

    And if you have the money to r8r -int chest and double -int G16s claws then sage is the way to go for aps, but only the really rich go sage aps imo. -50% pdef Penetrate Armor, 25% damage reduction, and still can 5 aps? Plus having the versatility to do large pulls in tiger form to get to the bosses quick.

    Classes were balanced, people just had different priorities. Now classes are unbalanced because of a pretty obvious accident. Demon has a few good skills but sage has hp and damage now so there is no trade off.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • akosireann
    akosireann Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    With all that has been said, this means I have all the right to humiliate any barb in panda form who still can't yank aggro away from my +4 2immac garn sharded -05 T3 claw bm when I'm not sparking... Especially if that sage barb brags he has all the sage skills and a +7 2garn gem T3 uni tragedy with 2 +1 attack level addsb:victory
    Go Pure or go Fail

    You have enemies? Good. That means you stood up for something in your life - Winston Churchill

    Status of PvP in RT

    The best pk in Raging Tides is in World Chat- Dylena
  • MesmerizeYou - Heavens Tear
    MesmerizeYou - Heavens Tear Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    akosireann wrote: »
    With all that has been said, this means I have all the right to humiliate any barb in panda form who still can't yank aggro away from my +4 2immac garn sharded -05 T3 claw bm when I'm not sparking... Especially if that sage barb brags he has all the sage skills and a +7 2garn gem T3 uni tragedy with 2 +1 attack level addsb:victory

    Sages just got full damage in tiger form. Demons already had full damage and they still had problems holding aggro against aps. So no, you dont get the right to humiliate any barb coz they cant hold aggro, unless he's really a plvled fail. Gtfo from this thread.
  • akosireann
    akosireann Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    MesmerizeYou - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Sages just got full damage in tiger form. Demons already had full damage and they still had problems holding aggro against aps. So no, you dont get the right to humiliate any barb coz they cant hold aggro, unless he's really a plvled fail. Gtfo from this thread.

    I have been with demon barbs who...surprise, KNOW HOW TO KEEP AGGRO EVEN FROM R9 SINS (imagine that) maybe the sin is yielding but kinda hard to yield when you have +10 dags.
    Yes the sage meathead has all the bells and whistles that a sage barb has (if he's telling the truth) along with this newfangled panda form and he STILL cant get aggro from me even if i took off my aps wrists so he can tank. So yes he did get a barrage of taunts after that run because despite of everything he got he still can't tank and this just happen to me on this lunar bh on RT.
    Go Pure or go Fail

    You have enemies? Good. That means you stood up for something in your life - Winston Churchill

    Status of PvP in RT

    The best pk in Raging Tides is in World Chat- Dylena
  • Haila - Sanctuary
    Haila - Sanctuary Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    akosireann wrote: »
    I have been with demon barbs who...surprise, KNOW HOW TO KEEP AGGRO EVEN FROM R9 SINS (imagine that) maybe the sin is yielding but kinda hard to yield when you have +10 dags.
    Yes the sage meathead has all the bells and whistles that a sage barb has (if he's telling the truth) along with this newfangled panda form and he STILL cant get aggro from me even if i took off my aps wrists so he can tank. So yes he did get a barrage of taunts after that run because despite of everything he got he still can't tank and this just happen to me on this lunar bh on RT.

    Realy depends on gears and build, if you compare barbs demon/sage with same gears and builds, sage should hold aggro better than demon now b:bye
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    Haila - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Realy depends on gears and build, if you compare barbs demon/sage with same gears and builds, sage should hold aggro better than demon now b:bye

    Hmm, not sure.

    ~Sage Titans is a party buff, increasing the dd as much as themselves but obviously a 5 aps 200k dps sin is going to get more benefit from Titans than the barb itself. A demon won't increase the dd's damage output as much (except for the 5% crit period, where it increases it more than sage titans) and so aggro skills will have a slightly larger effect.
    ~Demon Poison Fang is stronger and only boosts the barbs.
    ~Demon Flesh Ream is still more spammable.
    ~Reflect (if used) will add 100% bramble. Minor on bosses, but something.

    The rest of it is build, skill, squad, and a million other factors. I'm generalizing here but most sages add more vit and focus on gear and most demons add more strength and refine their weapon along with their gear. That's a large part of the culti balance that was destroyed with sage panda form glitch.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Farenheight - Dreamweaver
    Farenheight - Dreamweaver Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    The problem is that barbs are not the single class in game. Many of you mostly thinking about PvP, but there is still PvE, which is actually important for those who farm things like armor and weps. Sage barbs were not so weak BEFORE against demon barbs and other classes like we are NOW in case of damage dealt to target when squad is fulfilled with R9r3 toons with insane crits or amount of damage per sec. But with this minor update of sage true form we can tank a bit better. This is an attempt to balance old barbs with new realities of this game. If you want to tank in PvE, go sage.
  • Maelael - Heavens Tear
    Maelael - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,497 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    CroPsy - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I hope they will leave it as it is now. It's not balance problem it's balance solution.
    Barbs need more DD, specially in True Form.

    It only affects that handful of Demon barbs, who now feel unloved b:cry

    But really, It's rare to see Demon barb, so stop QQ-ing and accept it! There are a lot more Sage barbs that will profit from this, than there is Demon barb that will feel cheated.

    And let's see why most of the barbs took demon in the first place? - Cause Nirvana.

    And you can always do your culti and switch to Sage... since I guess skills doesn't matter...

    Uhm....

    A good amount of the best pullers and best PvP barbs on our server....are demon chief. Good amount of them are not APS. I dunno how you missed that except maybe you don't TW/PK/NW much.

    The Demon barb alt buffers are rare tho, we keep them all sage so the buff lasts an hour. Could be why you don't notice the large amount of demon ones.
    pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f5
  • akosireann
    akosireann Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Uhm....

    A good amount of the best pullers and best PvP barbs on our server....are demon chief. Good amount of them are not APS. I dunno how you missed that except maybe you don't TW/PK/NW much.

    The Demon barb alt buffers are rare tho, we keep them all sage so the buff lasts an hour. Could be why you don't notice the large amount of demon ones.

    Can't agree more on what Maelael said...even in a hardheaded server like RT there are some high hp demon barbs that can swing both ways as a suicidegeddon barb and a catabarb as well. (BloodTyrant and Man come to mind but Blood is the better one both ways for me).

    As long as that drunken panda meathead keeps the aggro away from me and I am able to do my bm duties without burning out my charm and pots, it's fine with me. I'm tired of tanking stuff that THEY should be tanking anywaysb:chuckle
    Go Pure or go Fail

    You have enemies? Good. That means you stood up for something in your life - Winston Churchill

    Status of PvP in RT

    The best pk in Raging Tides is in World Chat- Dylena
  • HrunsPanda - Archosaur
    HrunsPanda - Archosaur Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    No PvP experience yet, but for future considerations. Since i am working on both a demon and a sage barb. The demon barb will be APS, the sage will go more in the direction of maximizing hitpoints and maybe someday have a future as catapuller.

    Now for PvP the APS is of course not very good. But when my APS demon barb is using his axe and full HA, what will be the value of the dex on him ? I kind of have the feeling that with both the extra accuracy and the crit % it is not gonna be a bad thing at all for a pvp axebarb. Agree or disagree ?

    Or do you think my sage barb is gonna make a better pvp barb ? It should have some more str and possibly vit, so its raw damage and hitpoints could be better. But then, using armageddon and missing seems kinda sucky. And how feasible is demon sunder + armageddon (with thee for the required sparks and ToP for an extra boost) Is that gonna do as nice as it does in my theorizing head or is it not really practical in pvp ?
  • Maelael - Heavens Tear
    Maelael - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,497 Arc User
    edited March 2013
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    HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »
    No PvP experience yet, but for future considerations. Since i am working on both a demon and a sage barb. The demon barb will be APS, the sage will go more in the direction of maximizing hitpoints and maybe someday have a future as catapuller.

    Now for PvP the APS is of course not very good. But when my APS demon barb is using his axe and full HA, what will be the value of the dex on him ? I kind of have the feeling that with both the extra accuracy and the crit % it is not gonna be a bad thing at all for a pvp axebarb. Agree or disagree ?

    Or do you think my sage barb is gonna make a better pvp barb ? It should have some more str and possibly vit, so its raw damage and hitpoints could be better. But then, using armageddon and missing seems kinda sucky. And how feasible is demon sunder + armageddon (with thee for the required sparks and ToP for an extra boost) Is that gonna do as nice as it does in my theorizing head or is it not really practical in pvp ?

    Okay the APS demon barb is actually...not bad for PVP. It allows you another option for putting down high HP people. You want about or close to 200 dex. If you ditch the APS, you still want some dex (100-160ish) for the accuracy....but. You can literally dump the whole thing in strength and just deal with high dex toons with your auto hit skills. You really have multiple options with a Demon Barb. If hes already APS try that, if not lower the dex and take a look at your other options.

    Right now - unless they change the new form powers - Sage would be the better PVP barb if you're a strength build. 2x faster chi gain and heavier hits. Not as many auto hits but meh.

    Demon Sunder+Arma is very feasible as long as you're getting attacked. Idea is to have Beastial rage up, be antistunned, and go to town. As long as people are hitting you its pretty easy. I wiped like 12 people doing that on Saturday while pulling a cat (not recommended unless you're fighting scrubs like I was).
    pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f5

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