Demon Psy
Comments
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Dylena - Raging Tide wrote: »No offense, I skipped most of it after reading first page..from an archer perspective that **** ALL psys easy, demon is by far a bigger issue then a sage. Sage might be tankier but lets face it, when a purge hits your culti is pure **** whilst demon does a huge harm with all their crits etc. I'm not a psy but I do fight them and I can tell you for sure, sage is more of a support while demon is an offensive player.
Fascinating, considering sage psys are way better geared towards fighting archers than demon. Our psy will lasts longer, we can use expel, we are chi efficient so we can stun you more often, our soulburn lasts longer so we can lock you in the rotation of doing combos followed by soulburn when you think you'll unleash your combo on us. You're pretty much fked and doomed to run away, run away, run away.0 -
Dylena - Raging Tide wrote: »No offense, I skipped most of it after reading first page..from an archer perspective that **** ALL psys easy, demon is by far a bigger issue then a sage. Sage might be tankier but lets face it, when a purge hits your culti is pure **** whilst demon does a huge harm with all their crits etc. I'm not a psy but I do fight them and I can tell you for sure, sage is more of a support while demon is an offensive player.
o.O when did u **** me moeDon't F. with me, I F. back
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Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »even... meeee? b:puzzled b:pleased b:kiss
Umm...yes.TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »Fascinating, considering sage psys are way better geared towards fighting archers than demon. Our psy will lasts longer, we can use expel, we are chi efficient so we can stun you more often, our soulburn lasts longer so we can lock you in the rotation of doing combos followed by soulburn when you think you'll unleash your combo on us. You're pretty much fked and doomed to run away, run away, run away.
You can expel? I can walk away, you can soulburn? I can walk away again. You lost chi? well I still have all mine. I don't think you can actually lock down an archer considering I can stealth, leap and I have the range advantage unless the archer has a peanut as a brain.LuciferV - Raging Tide wrote: »o.O when did u **** me moe
We used to PK a lot against and with each other Luci, if you remember right most times you've killed me is thanks to being demon with a high 1 shot crit or 2x crits in a row also keep in mind that you're full +12 whilst I recently acquired +11s when I got less active and when we fought I was full +10 with a +12 bow.
Also heard u got a baby, gratz.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Dylena - Raging Tide wrote: »Umm...yes.
aw b:cuteDylena - Raging Tide wrote: »Also heard u got a baby, gratz.
is it a demon baby? b:question gratzees luci b:victory, wonderin why u aint seemed to be on that much wit nw now[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Dylena - Raging Tide wrote: »You can expel? I can walk away, you can soulburn? I can walk away again. You lost chi? well I still have all mine. I don't think you can actually lock down an archer considering I can stealth, leap and I have the range advantage unless the archer has a peanut as a brain.
o
Your very post highlights all the reason sage is better equipped for archers.
An archer attacks, you Psy will immediately. The demon is safe for 8 seconds, the sage for 10. The archer will undoubtedly kite this.
After it ends? The archer comes back, their anti-stun still up. The sage can Bubble of life + Expel for another 10 second immunity, the demon cannot. The demon either has to kite or somehow out-DD the archer or tank with white voodoo, which is unlikely given the horrendous pdef a Psy has to offer.
If the archer attempts to kite the Expel + BoL? Psy will is off cooldown in 10 seconds and the archer just kited. Incredibly easy to kite that 10 for Psy will, forcing the archer to....kite again.
The point is that much like an archer can get "perma"-anti-stun, a sage Psy can get "perma"-physical immune. A demon cannot. What the sage does is it FORCES the archer to at some point engage the Psy when he's got physical immunity on, in attempt to last until the physical immune comes off or stun through Psy will or whatever. This also affords the sage Psy a window to utilize and attack.
Secondly, you'd be surprised how often a SoR purge reflect goes off when a kite-fight is going on, since the Psy is afforded multiple opportunities to recast it between the kiting. A purge can easily kill the archer by making him lose his anti-stun, just like it can potentially kill physical immunity. While flame arrow does allow you to shoot SoR off through physical immunity, it also makes you INCREDIBLY susceptible to a well-timed SoSt, which again, WILL be the death of you. The moment your anti-stun comes off? That's the moment SoSt goes up. This means you cannot mindlessly autoattack in hopes of a purge UNLESS you have anti-stun up; otherwise you risk being stunned. Even so, while auto-attacking with flame arrow on, you risk being hit with a five second silence, which again, is a huge issue.
Finally, of course a sage Psy builds chi better than a demon. A sage Psy will have absolutely no problem producing the chi neccesary for Psy will, and infact probably produces chi faster than a sage archer.
It's a kite-fight and by no means a quick fight, but I'd definitely say the sage Psy has an upper hand as they have more/better control skills and enough physical immunity to compete with the archer's anti-stun. A demon on the other hand is left with a highly risky attempt to out-DD the archer when the archer has anti-stun up (and likely 25% damage redux) and the Psy does NOT.I
AGOREY0 -
The more drawn out a fight with an archer is, the less chance a Psy has of winning, tbh, and not soley because of the purge proc. If the archer is jades and mdef ornaments, it can be rough for a Sage to have a chance at winning without pulling a triple spark on a disable/immob.
Non tanky archers on the other hand...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »The more drawn out a fight with an archer is, the less chance a Psy has of winning, tbh, and not soley because of the purge proc. If the archer is jades and mdef ornaments, it can be rough for a Sage to have a chance at winning without pulling a triple spark on a disable/immob.
Non tanky archers on the other hand...
Wat is this i dun evenI AGOREY0 -
Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »The more drawn out a fight with an archer is, the less chance a Psy has of winning, tbh, and not soley because of the purge proc. If the archer is jades and mdef ornaments, it can be rough for a Sage to have a chance at winning without pulling a triple spark on a disable/immob.
Non tanky archers on the other hand...
There is absolutely no difference in balance due to the duration of the fight, sage psy always has an edge over archer - it's not like we run out of chi or any cooldowns over time, the cycle is repeatable ad infinitum.
And you're talking out of your *** about sage having a hard time killing a josd archer with mag.def ornaments - archer can't tank psy's damage, we hit them like a truck and you don't even need to use tide spirit or lol spark vs archer? to kill him, a mere rotation of skills does the trick.
On a side note, sage diminished vigor cuts down your survivability, just in case it's that hard to kill you due to never excessive kiting.0 -
Apparently none of the Archers you fight use Faith, Windshield, Oxygen Bubble, or Badge on their Genies. On Sanctuary a stunned Archer is certainly not a dead one by any means lol!
The reason I said the longer the fight goes on the more likely the Archer will win against a Sage Psychic is (of course the Purge proc has more of a chance of continuously proccing) but also D Quickshot has more of a chance of charm bypassing by a quick beat on the 2nd shot. I've seen this happen to full jades psychics while Psy Will is mid channel. The longer the fight, the more chance a proc based fight style has of being extremely effective. And honestly, if the fight is long to begin with, less chance that the Archer you're fighting is a complete idiot. b:laugh
The particular Mdef orn Jades Archer I'm talking about is close to 20k HP buffed and at +12 R9 pure magic (3 vit 3 dex style) Sage I hit him on average 3-5k. I wouldn't call that hitting him like a truck at all. With Mdef ornaments, Windshield on his genie, and Oxygen Bubble (let me tell you how fun that is...), getting enough damage to eat 30k total of HP before either one of his WoP or WoG or Stealth is ready is difficult as hell. We're talking minimum 16 seconds of straight casting without crits. Of course, chances are high I will crit at least once, even as a sage. Chances are NOT high that I will retal his purge shot, so that's not a reliable tactic, just a windfall if it occurs.
3 Sparking or 2 Sparking isn't a dirty word, man. Not on a Sage. As you've said many times, we generate chi like... I can't think of a simile that doesn't involve generators or bunnies.... At least on Sanc, the world of where Psychics could walk out and pure DD faceroll everything and survive by how MYSTERIOUS our buffs are is long gone.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
3spark vs archer works in rare occasions because they'll just run away - if I really need (which I never do) more damage vs r9recast+12 josd archer with mag def ornaments, I'll rather use tide spirit.
How easy it is for you to kill archer also depends on your build - whereas archers have one and one only endgame option for a build, psys have a few. And it's true, not many people in general use faith genies - let's not kid ourselves, pwi is primarily populated by family players and fails who purchase their way to the top, in that kind of environment it's hard to talk about any skill level because it's virtually non-existent in comparison to more competitive games.0 -
I'd like to fight on your server, there isn't a single r9 archer who PKs that can be straight out DD-ed to death. Quite a few have Faith and Oxygen Bubble as well, and of course Will Surge. If we had a reliable way to charm bypass, maybe, but stone smasher just doesn't live up to expectations and they wont give us a water or earth 'Spark'.0
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Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »Apparently none of the Archers you fight use Faith, Windshield, Oxygen Bubble, or Badge on their Genies. On Sanctuary a stunned Archer is certainly not a dead one by any means lol!
3 Sparking or 2 Sparking isn't a dirty word, man. Not on a Sage. As you've said many times, we generate chi like... I can't think of a simile that doesn't involve generators or bunnies.... At least on Sanc, the world of where Psychics could walk out and pure DD faceroll everything and survive by how MYSTERIOUS our buffs are is long gone.
Yes, but the name of the game is "kite-fight." The moment they use one is the moment they lack chi for Holy Path and you do not. Hell, in some ways your goal is to wittle down that genie so you have a free window to stun them and finish them off, so if they're using heavy-cost skills like Faith, you've already won. You kite it out and then when you come back, you know they've got no genie available and all you need is a proper stun to finish the job. I don't know why you even name windshield and Bubble; no, our server doesn't use genie skills that won't save them in the fight they're in.
And yes, triple sparking is a dirty word. It basically announces you have no chi for Psy will and Earth Vector, unless you're specifically using a tea for more chi immediately after. Psys use chi for defense primarily, offense secondarily. Thus you can't use Trip spark or even Tide Spirit without a smart opponent knowing this may be the perfect time to strike. With Tide Spirit at least, you have sparks left over to cover that, but trip sparking either forces a pot or forces absolutely full chi, and even then you gotta act quick and spend that fourth spark wisely.
Your goal? Get that genie out of the way and toss up Soul of Stunning when they least expect it. THEN you can go wild with the offensive sparks, but even then I would use Tide Spirit rather than trip spark, both for the "just in case" and because Tide is enough to get the job done. Considering all it takes is one Soul of Stunning to kill them, yeah I'd say we have the advantage.I AGOREY0 -
b:laugh
Windshield and Oxy Bubble not useful?
Windshield on a 100 dex genie gives you 27%+ Damage reduction for 10 seconds for only 65 energy cost. For sake of explanation, this is akin to taking off your voodoo in damage, and it is instant cooldown.
Oxygen Bubble makes you immune to all water spells for 7 seconds and on the same genie as above only costs 60 energy. Lets list things that are water: Aqua Impact, Torrent, Glacial Shards, Aqua Cannon, Crystal Light, (Red Tide but I mean come on). This limits you to Sandball Clash and Earth Vector (50% chance and 85% chance respectively) as slows/immobilizes for the duration (along with SoS and SoSil ofc). A great burst or flee skill on a Psychic.
Badge on the same genie listed above has a 90% success chance and can break an Archer out of SoS even if he was stupid enough to hit it without ant-stun on or if you ninja'd it. 75 Energy.
Faith on a full Strength genie only costs 140 energy, 5 more than domain, and is usually used to get away to begin kiting. On a 105 Genie, you can have Faith and AD for extra fun.
Whittling down their genie is the correct tactic, of course, but if they're smart and save Oxy Bubble, even if you get a stun off suddenly you're forced to try for a crit, then flee to start over. Or you can triple or double spark and make sure the three or four earth spells you'll get in will COUNT. Tide Spirit in an Oxy Bubble fight will have you running out of available skills quickly.
All while making no mistakes yourself defensively or in genie usage.
Again, I agree with Euzebe, wish I could fight the stupid archers on your server instead. b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »b:laugh
Oxygen Bubble makes you immune to all water spells for 7 seconds and on the same genie as above only costs 60 energy. This limits you to Sandball Clash and Earth Vector (50% chance and 85% chance respectively) as slows/immobilizes for the duration (along with SoS and SoSil ofc). A great burst or flee skill on a Psychic.
Badge on the same genie listed above has a 90% success chance and can break an Archer out of SoS even if he was stupid enough to hit it without ant-stun on or if you ninja'd it. 75 Energy.
Yes, let's not forget that once you use Oxygen Bubble we have only two earth attacks to use, but luckily for us they can apparently slow you down, so woohoo! And oh snap, I thought SoS was all about timing rather than counting on your opponent's stupidity to just randomly run into it by himself, I guess we're doomed against archers seeing it only took them a few years to figure out how a few of our skills look like (I dare not think how much more you'll learn about us in the next 10 years).0 -
TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »Yes, let's not forget that once you use Oxygen Bubble we have only two earth attacks to use, but luckily for us they can apparently slow you down, so woohoo! And oh snap, I thought SoS was all about timing rather than counting on your opponent's stupidity to just randomly run into it by himself, I guess we're doomed against archers seeing it only took them a few years to figure out how a few of our skills look like (I dare not think how much more you'll learn about us in the next 10 years).
Wrote something else and forgot to change the end of the sentence to "disables" instead of "slow/immobilize" but apparently that's all you read so there's that. Judging by your response, you didn't even read the full sentence.
And I even mentioned Ninja-ing SoS.
Sigh.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »b:laugh
Windshield and Oxy Bubble not useful?
Windshield on a 100 dex genie gives you 27%+ Damage reduction for 10 seconds for only 65 energy cost. For sake of explanation, this is akin to taking off your voodoo in damage, and it is instant cooldown.
Oxygen Bubble makes you immune to all water spells for 7 seconds and on the same genie as above only costs 60 energy. Lets list things that are water: Aqua Impact, Torrent, Glacial Shards, Aqua Cannon, Crystal Light, (Red Tide but I mean come on). This limits you to Sandball Clash and Earth Vector (50% chance and 85% chance respectively) as slows/immobilizes for the duration (along with SoS and SoSil ofc). A great burst or flee skill on a Psychic.
Badge on the same genie listed above has a 90% success chance and can break an Archer out of SoS even if he was stupid enough to hit it without ant-stun on or if you ninja'd it. 75 Energy.
Faith on a full Strength genie only costs 140 energy, 5 more than domain, and is usually used to get away to begin kiting. On a 105 Genie, you can have Faith and AD for extra fun.
Whittling down their genie is the correct tactic, of course, but if they're smart and save Oxy Bubble, even if you get a stun off suddenly you're forced to try for a crit, then flee to start over. Or you can triple or double spark and make sure the three or four earth spells you'll get in will COUNT. Tide Spirit in an Oxy Bubble fight will have you running out of available skills quickly.
All while making no mistakes yourself defensively or in genie usage.
Again, I agree with Euzebe, wish I could fight the stupid archers on your server instead. b:laugh
When I say they're not useful, I don't mean they have no use whatsoever, but rather that there's far more useful alternatives. Frenzy for example also isn't useless, but would I ever use it? No way in hell.
With Oxygen bubble, using it while you have anti-stun up is pointless. This means the only time you'd use it is while anti-stun is down....but this just invites the Psy to catch you with a low genie AND soul of stunning. Alternatively you might use it so you can simply kite away, but again holy path is arguably better because you'll STILL get caught by Earth Vector, which is practically the entire duration of Oxygen bubble.
Long-story short, when you use Oxygen bubble, it's either excessive because you already have anti-stun up (earth is enough to DD constantly without interruption), inviting the Psy to put up Soul of Stunning, or it's a pretty half-assed kiting technique compared to Holy Path or Fortify because you're still risking getting caught in stun. CAN it work? Yes, it can but I personally don't want a genie skill on my genie that MIGHT work, and even when it works it only serves it's purpose as well as Holy Path or other alternatives, and not better.
Windshield is much the same. It could work, but your main worry should be control skills, not damage. Windshield, again, will not prevent you from being stunned and Earth Vector alone covers 2/3rds it's duration. Using it with anti-stun on will probably just make the Psy kite, using it without anti-stun on? Again, you're creating a window for the Psy.
Kite-fight, that's the name of the game. Avoid being stunned and create a window where you can stun your opponent. On top of that, these are two classes that will likely keep to maxed range (until one of them feels daring) so both have opportunities to kite short-duration effects. Neither of those two skills are ideal.I AGOREY0 -
i was a sage psy for 1 year and it took me another year to find sage bubble of life at a good price , even though i bought that skill , i switched to demon 1 month later. Demon Landslide isn't as it seems (has 30% chance to add 50% crit rate for 4 sec and you gotta be close bla bla bla) i gotta tell you that its very common to have that crit , its a matter of % right but still i find it very common to get the crit rate. Might not be dependable when a BM runs into you in a TW and you psy will when you notice , but worked with me alot to just demon lands slide to tick his charm then finish him with sandburst crit + spirit blast (yep you have the time to perform two attacks).
Bottom Line : Demon Psy : Kill before you get killed
Sage Psy : hmm i can't find a good description for real, can't even say survive
better because its a matter of how you play your psy, but perhaps
Oopa Gangnum Styleb:victory0
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