Demon Psy

TheDendra - Harshlands

@ignimen, here is my rationalization of the two skills you strongly disagreed with:

Spirit Blast - one problem here is that you don't spam Spirit Blast on every cooldown, you use a variety of skills which makes me rather choose for my Spirit Blast to hit bit harder every time I use it than to have it give me 30 chi 1/5 times I use it.

So this comes down to how often do you use Spirit Blast in your skill rotation, how long fights last,etc. - Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that Sage version is good, I'm just torn when it comes to it's reliability in pvp due to such low percentage (in pve sage is obviously better since you use Spirit Blast a lot more in rotations there, but in pvp where you have to move a lot and often use your hardest hitting spells first, Spirit Blast becomes secondary at best).



White Voodoo - what I meant by channelling not being useless here is that it perfectly suits the W.Voodoo playstyle which relies heavily on dmg over time spells, soulburn and such - which all happen to have fairly long channeling. I'd still take Sage over Demon, I'm just saying Demon version isn't useless as some of other Demon skills, i.e. Demon Psy.Will is an absolute joke)

Longknife - Harshlands

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

Fixed:

Spirit Blast (Demon wins)

White Voodoo (Sage wins but arguable for Demon since white voodoo playstyle relies on channeling more)

It was then that the Psychic forum determined that TheDendra was inebriated and/or a giant idiot.

LuciferV - Raging Tide

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

It was then that the Psychic forum determined that TheDendra was inebriated and/or a giant idiot.

you almost catch up with him.

TheDendra - Harshlands

Cute Long, I just gave you the reasoning behind those choices - I didn't say demon is a clear cut winner for spirit blast and I explained why demon white voodoo isn't useless. You've apparently never played competitive e-Sports to understand the reliability of percentages - the difference between 20% and 25% is huge, i.e. if sage spirit blast had 25% chance it would be a much easier choice, but due to the nature of the game and skill rotation, that 20% is not something to be overly excited about meaning the skill is open to debate and has no clear cut winner, simple as that...I'm not sure which part you don't understand and I also don't see a point in calling you, a random nobody from non-main stream game, names.

Longknife - Harshlands

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

Cute Long, I just gave you the reasoning behind those choices - I didn't say demon is a clear cut winner for spirit blast and I explained why demon white voodoo isn't useless. You've apparently never played competitive e-Sports to understand the reliability of percentages - the difference between 20% and 25% is huge, i.e. if sage spirit blast had 25% chance it would be a much easier choice, but due to the nature of the game and skill rotation, that 20% is not something to be overly excited about meaning the skill is open to debate and has no clear cut winner, simple as that...I'm not sure which part you don't understand and I also don't see a point in calling you, a random nobody from non-main stream game, names.

You're right Dendra, I'm simply not as smart as you and can't properly comprehend the sheer awesomeness of demon Spirit blast and demon White Voodoo. I mean, 3% less channeling? That's like, an entire .03 seconds off of Glacial Shards! WOW! That's like .06 seconds off of Soulburn! Surely a demon in white voodoo would kick a sage's *** simply by casting .03 seconds faster.

And why the hell would anyone ever want a 1 in 5 chance to gain 30 chi from a skill we typically spam the **** out of? That's nothing compared to 361 extra damage! 361 extra damage is like....90 extra points of damage in PVP! WOW!!

Maybe someday I'll be as smart and wise as you. b:cute

LuciferV - Raging Tide wrote: »

you almost catch up with him.

You are demon. Your argument is invalid.

TheDendra - Harshlands

You fail to see my point yet again - I never said Sage W.V. isn't better, I said Demon's -chann is applicable, which has nothing to do with the scale of its impact. You are battling windmills here because for one I'm strongly against channelling stat on psys and regard it as a joke.

Far as spirit blast goes - I'll say it again, it works 1/5 times and we only use it to fill in gaps in combos meaning at best it's every 3rd spell you cast - based on the timing of its usage and the frequency of it's usage, I'm saying that extra lil bit of damage is reliable whereas the 20% to gain chi is not. Would I prefer to have one over the other? I am not fond of either of those, demon as you said adds very little damage and the sage as I'm saying is far too low percentage for pvp (I've got no problem with 20% in pve where you spam spirit blast, but in pvp...if it was 25%+ I'd be much happier to have it).

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm done explaining things to a player who isn't capable of having over 90apm with the brain speed of equivalent measurement.

LuciferV - Raging Tide

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

You're right Dendra, I'm simply not as smart as you and can't properly comprehend the sheer awesomeness of demon Spirit blast and demon White Voodoo. I mean, 3% less channeling? That's like, an entire .03 seconds off of Glacial Shards! WOW! That's like .06 seconds off of Soulburn! Surely a demon in white voodoo would kick a sage's *** simply by casting .03 seconds faster.

And why the hell would anyone ever want a 1 in 5 chance to gain 30 chi from a skill we typically spam the **** out of? That's nothing compared to 361 extra damage! 361 extra damage is like....90 extra points of damage in PVP! WOW!!

Maybe someday I'll be as smart and wise as you. b:cute



You are demon. Your argument is invalid.

Again, idiots think one is better than another

Longknife - Harshlands

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

You fail to see my point yet again - I never said Sage W.V. isn't better, I said Demon's -chann is applicable, which has nothing to do with the scale of its impact. You are battling windmills here because for one I'm strongly against channelling stat on psys and regard it as a joke.

Far as spirit blast goes - I'll say it again, it works 1/5 times and we only use it to fill in gaps in combos meaning at best it's every 3rd spell you cast - based on the timing of its usage and the frequency of it's usage, I'm saying that extra lil bit of damage is reliable whereas the 20% to gain chi is not. Would I prefer to have one over the other? I am not fond of either of those, demon as you said adds very little damage and the sage as I'm saying is far too low percentage for pvp (I've got no problem with 20% in pve where you spam spirit blast, but in pvp...if it was 25%+ I'd be much happier to have it).

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm done explaining things to a player who isn't capable of having over 90apm with the brain speed of equivalent measurement.

I love this guy. He desperately attempts to defend his IQ instead of just admitting it was a stupid statement, probably out of nothing but foolish pride. He even continues ranting about intelligence as if he has some sort of complex about appearing smart, then blatantly misquotes himself in an attempt to say that what he originally said is actually a fair statement when no, it was 20 different forms of stupid.

Bonus points for implying MMORPGs are this super complex activity that only genius individuals like yourself can even begin to grasp. We're all really impressed with your superior intelligence and wish we were as great as you!

LuciferV - Raging Tide wrote: »

Again, idiots think one is better than another

This guy is funny too.

...Because he's demon. b:cute

Kerona - Sanctuary

Ew, Demon Psy.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

LuciferV - Raging Tide wrote: »

Again, idiots think one is better than another

But, but, but Demon IS better than... b:lipcurl ooooh b:surprised b:surrender I'm an... b:embarrass b:avoid

Kerona - Sanctuary

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

But, but, but Demon IS better than...l ooooh b:surprised b:surrender I'm an... b:embarrass b:avoid

But we already knew that. b:cute

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »

But we already knew that... b:cute

that you weally weally wub me! b:shy aaw shucks Kery b:mischievous

Kerona - Sanctuary

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

that you weally weally wub me! b:shy aaw shucks Kery b:mischievous

b:kissb:kiss

The__Sun - Dreamweaver

Full channeling gear on belt and neck and rings and pants and helm and savants in wep is obviously the best build for a psy b:pleased

Ok but on a serious note, I do see advantages from demon sparking and using sandball clash or Stone Smasher just because of the longer time to cast on those. Even using other skills that are already fast can play a part cause in TW or mass PK every sec counts. I'm not saying you should go out and make a full channeling build but merely suggesting that I have noticed some times where it is helpful. Lastly, even though you have to be close for demon landslide it has been extremely effective skill for me. It seems as though that crit works for me more like 65% of the time then only 30% and as a rank9 psy sometimes that's all you need is 2 back to back crits. Also I'm not saying sage is **** by any means since they do have a lot of kickass effects (maybe even more so then demon), but I still prefer demon.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

@ The__Sun of Dreamweaver... b:victory on ur sig

Arctix - Dreamweaver

The__Sun - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Full channeling gear on belt and neck and rings and pants and helm and savants in wep is obviously the best build for a psy b:pleased

Ok but on a serious note, I do see advantages from demon sparking and using sandball clash or Stone Smasher just because of the longer time to cast on those. Even using other skills that are already fast can play a part cause in TW or mass PK every sec counts. I'm not saying you should go out and make a full channeling build but merely suggesting that I have noticed some times where it is helpful. Lastly, even though you have to be close for demon landslide it has been extremely effective skill for me. It seems as though that crit works for me more like 65% of the time then only 30% and as a rank9 psy sometimes that's all you need is 2 back to back crits. Also I'm not saying sage is **** by any means since they do have a lot of kickass effects (maybe even more so then demon), but I still prefer demon.

U need to repair ur full stop button sun ...

Subtraction - Harshlands

The__Sun - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Full channeling gear on belt and neck and rings and pants and helm and savants in wep is obviously the best build for a psy b:pleased

Ok but on a serious note, I do see advantages from demon sparking and using sandball clash or Stone Smasher just because of the longer time to cast on those. Even using other skills that are already fast can play a part cause in TW or mass PK every sec counts. I'm not saying you should go out and make a full channeling build but merely suggesting that I have noticed some times where it is helpful. Lastly, even though you have to be close for demon landslide it has been extremely effective skill for me. It seems as though that crit works for me more like 65% of the time then only 30% and as a rank9 psy sometimes that's all you need is 2 back to back crits. Also I'm not saying sage is **** by any means since they do have a lot of kickass effects (maybe even more so then demon), but I still prefer demon.

not sure if srs

Apostasy - Raging Tide

The__Sun - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Full channeling gear on belt and neck and rings and pants and helm and savants in wep is obviously the best build for a psy b:pleased
Ok but on a serious note, ...

Subtraction - Harshlands wrote:

not sure if srs

um... b:puzzled wearn to wead? b:surrender

_Tiamat_ - Lost City

i am 103 psy demon full nirv 3 rd cast and love are demon fell so good when i use my demon spark and my landslide lv 11 give me 50 % critical rate bonus my earth vector increase 8 meters aoe range and 85 % to stun

my best combo in tw spark + landslide + chi pots and stone smasher = so many critical and cya all

just love it
so much ppl say are a demon psy is noob
but no dont is

sage is good demon is good just need knows how play one demon psy
i have 3 year playing with my psy or 2 idk i make it when gm make it my first char was one bm but i leae game because no like bm when gm make psy i back i see so many sage but when i see demon skill i make it demon and I do not regret for it

Subtraction - Harshlands

_Tiamat_ - Lost City wrote: »

so much ppl say are a demon psy is noob
but no dont is

well, you've convinced me

brb reinstalling and rerolling demon.

evolution1234

I use Master Li's technique as soon as cool down of the skill is over.

evolution1234

_Tiamat_ - Lost City wrote: »

my best combo in tw spark + landslide + chi pots and stone smasher = so many critical and cya all

good combo for damage. May I ask how many of those combo u can pull out in one hour of tw?

DemansPsy - Lost City

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

DemansPsy - Lost City

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Aqua Impact (Sage wins +1)
+Slows target an additional 10% to the already 40% slowed speed
20% chance to drain target's chi by 30

Spirit Blast (Demon wins +1)
20% chance to gain 30 chi
+361 additional damage
Shouldn't it be the other way around? sage wins spirit blast, demon wins aqua impact?
Black Voodoo (Is a Draw)
+3 additional Attack Levels
-3 Defense Levels lost

White Voodoo (Sage wins +2)
+5 additional Defense Levels
-3% Channeling Time

Soul of Vengeance (Sage wins +3 as SUPPORT) (Demon wins +2 as PVP)
Reflection Costs No Mana
+4% Soulforce added as reflection damage

Torrent (Is a Draw)
+1200 additional damage
-3 second duration of dot

Bubble of Life (Is a Draw) both can be argued pvp and support
Cancels negative effect status
-5 seconds till cooldown
AoE purify = 5 sec cooldown....ok....
Landslide (Is a Draw)
Range to cast +3 meters
30% chance to +50% additional crit rate for 4 seconds

Aqua Cannon (Demon wins +3)
30% chance to immobilize targets for 3 seconds
50% chance to deal +4518.8 water damage to all targets over 6 seconds

Sand Trap (Is a Draw)
+1200 additional damage
-3 second duration of dot

Diminished Vigor (Sage wins +4)
+1 second to time till hp charm ticks again
-5% healing skills effects & -10% pots heal effects

Soul of Stunning (Sage wins +5)
+1 second stun time per 4000 soulforce (normally per 5000 soulforce)
+1 second stun time

Glacial Shards (Demon wins +4)
+2 second immobilize time (to 6 seconds total, from 4 seconds)
+15% chance to immobilize (to 75% chance, from 60% chance)
50% longer duration < 1.25% chance?....
Empowered Vigor (Sage wins +6)
-1 second to time till hp charm ticks again
+5% healing skills effects & +10% pots heal effects

Sandburst Blast (Sage wins +7)
+2 meter aoe (to 10 meters, from 8 meters)
20% chance to decrease Earth Resists 20% for 8 seconds

Soul of Silence (Demon wins +5)
Silence effect increased to 5 seconds, from 3 seconds
Chance of Silence +20% (1.2x) chance from initial chance
66% increase in duration < 1.2x chance (about +7% in full +12 gear), i want what your smoking
Disturb Soul (Is a Draw)
+3 seconds duration of effect to 15 seconds (from 12 seconds)
100% channeling time increase (from 80% increase)

Soulburn (Demon wins +6)
+2 seconds duration of effect to 10 seconds (from 8 seconds) = 10 sec effect, 20 sec before can cast again
-5 seconds till cooldown = 8 sec effect, 17 sec before can cast again
according to math, sage = target SBed for 33.33% of time, demon = SBed for 32% of time and sage uses less chi/second...
Tide Spirit (Demon wins +7)
+3 seconds decreased channeling effect (to 9 seconds from 6)
+20% chance to crit for 15 seconds

Red Tide (Demon wins +8)
50% chance to cost only 1 spark (-1 from 2 sparks)
+20% increased bleed damage to 1.2x Soulforce (from 1x Soulforce)

Earth Vector (Demon wins +9)
50% chance to cost 0 spark (-1 from 1 spark)
+2 meter aoe (to 8 meters, from 6 meters)

Psychic Will (Sage wins +8)
+2 second immune to physical damage duration (to 10 seconds from 8)
20% chance to cost 0 spark (-1 from 1 spark)

Soul of Retalliation (Demon wins +10) who cares about silly heal?
Heals caster 15% Max Hitpoints
Reflects 60% Soulforce as damage (from 50% Soulforce)
perosnally i find 2k to 3k insta health sexy, but thats my opinion so no agurement for this one
Aqua Spirit (Is a Draw)
+5% increase of water spells damage (+25% from +20%)
+1% to crit rate

Earthen Spirit (Is a Draw)
+5% increase of earth spells damage (+25% from +20%)
+1% crit rate

b:surrender Sage at +8
b:victory Demon at +10 (Demon wins by +2)

Responses in red, sage is first liune under each skill, demon is second one, forum apparently doesn't like the black/white circles and kept deleting everything after em =/

TheDendra - Harshlands

DemansPsy great post, never was much into math to get into precise numbers but your percentages sure do support 1st hand experience, and yes that heal is sexy.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

• Sage Skills
○ Demon Skills

DemansPsy - Lost City wrote: »

Responses in red, sage is first liune under each skill, demon is second one, forum apparently doesn't like the black/white circles and kept deleting everything after em =/

Aqua Impact (Sage wins +1)
• Slows target an additional 10% to the already 40% slowed speed
○ 20% chance to drain target's chi by 30

Spirit Blast (Demon wins +1)
• 20% chance to gain 30 chi
○ +361 additional damage
Shouldn't it be the other way around? sage wins spirit blast, demon wins aqua impact?

Nope... Personally, I can care less about such a small chance to drain next to no chi, whereas an additional % to how much an enemy is being slowed takes the lead. (For Aqua Impact)
Again, Nope... A small chance to gain such little chi is not really a concern as having so many ways to already gain chi (including simply attacking), even tho I would agree such a small increase in damage is not a great bonus either (Spirit Blast)

Bubble of Life (Is a Draw) both can be argued pvp and support
• Cancels negative effect status
○ -5 seconds till cooldown
AoE purify = 5 sec cooldown....ok....

Yes "ok"... I have psy will and plenty of other toys depending which genie I have equipped. Cancelling negative effect status, altho great in squads as a support psy (and trying to be a cleric i suppose), personally i can care less about the well being of the squad in that manner... hence the reason i am a "demon" psy, and not a sage. I see the cooldown rate to my heal as more important to myself, and even *oh psy* in squads b:surrender. I usually have the ability to also work with negative status effects... Sage Bubble with Soulburn b:chuckle

Glacial Shards (Demon wins +4)
• +2 second immobilize time (to 6 seconds total, from 4 seconds)
○ +15% chance to immobilize (to 75% chance, from 60% chance)
50% longer duration < 1.25% chance?....

Hmm... you like math?... 6 out of 10 times immobilizing versus 7-8 out of 10 times immobilizing ones enemy b:question which is better? What good is your extra 2 seconds if you cant land the effect? I guess that extra 2 seconds is great if you have to stop and think about what your next attack will be once you observe "omg! they are immobilized!" Utilized better, that +15% chance gives you a much greater advantage.

Soul of Silence (Demon wins +5)
• Silence effect increased to 5 seconds, from 3 seconds
○ Chance of Silence +20% (1.2x) chance from initial chance
66% increase in duration < 1.2x chance (about +7% in full +12 gear), i want what your smoking

Again, please see glacial shards just above, for i do not feel i need to repeat this as it is the very same thing

Soulburn (Demon wins +6)
• +2 seconds duration of effect to 10 seconds (from 8 seconds) = 10 sec effect, 20 sec before can cast again
○ -5 seconds till cooldown = 8 sec effect, 17 sec before can cast again
according to math, sage = target SBed for 33.33% of time, demon = SBed for 32% of time and sage uses less chi/second...

Really? Sage casts its sb and their victim is at the sage's mercy for 10 seconds... ok... but out of 30 seconds only 10 seconds have passed till the rest of your cooldown starts to tick... that leaves 20 seconds till your next sb comes up (again, I think this comes down to utilizing time a lil better tho). Demon casts its sb and sure their victim is at the demon's mercy for a mere 8 seconds... but out of 25 seconds 8 seconds have already passed and I have only 17 seconds till i can either hit my victim again or find another victim... I'll take demon thank you, oh wait... I did take demon b:pleased

Soul of Retalliation (Demon wins +10) who cares about silly heal?
• Heals caster 15% Max Hitpoints
○ Reflects 60% Soulforce as damage (from 50% Soulforce)
perosnally i find 2k to 3k insta health sexy, but thats my opinion so no agurement for this one

I like to deliver damage, and anything soulforce related (for me) delivers damage. I see no need for a heal due to not planning on getting hit b:avoid

• Sage Skills
○ Demon Skills

hmm... them lil points seemed to work just fine for me... maybe they just dunt like you... frickin goody two-shoes sage...

TheDendra - Harshlands

Already explained the glacial shards part - 75% is way too low to be reliable, so you have to plan ahead if it fails as much as a sage psy.

The bubble of life argument is hilarious - it's not just about purifying squad members, it's about having 10+ seconds of physical immunity more than you have, along with the extra purify at hand if need be.

Soulburn is pure bs, sage wins so badly it's not even funny - 10seconds on soulburn works great because it gives you more time to attack the target while he/she has to worry about soulburn. The 25sec cooldown is redundant in comparison to the longer duration, not to mention sage is way more chi efficient.

Far as SoR goes - generally I'd agree demon version is better and I would say it is, but the sage one is not crappy by any means - i.e. if you compare sage psy will to demon, that's one crappy demon skill right there when you look at all the goodies sage gets.

DemansPsy - Lost City

Responses in red, sage is first line under each skill, demon is second one, forum apparently doesn't like the black/white circles and kept deleting everything after em =/, at the very least the circle dont like ME apparently X.X

Apostasy wrote:

Bubble of Life (Is a Draw) both can be argued pvp and support
Cancels negative effect status
-5 seconds till cooldown
AoE purify = 5 sec cooldown....ok....

Yes "ok"... I have psy will and plenty of other toys depending which genie I have equipped. Cancelling negative effect status, altho great in squads as a support psy (and trying to be a cleric i suppose), personally i can care less about the well being of the squad in that manner... hence the reason i am a "demon" psy, and not a sage. I see the cooldown rate to my heal as more important to myself, and even *oh psy* in squads . I usually have the ability to also work with negative status effects... Sage Bubble with Soulburn

IDK i still see an additonal purify >> 5 sec cooldown but w/e

Glacial Shards (Demon wins +4)
+2 second immobilize time (to 6 seconds total, from 4 seconds)
+15% chance to immobilize (to 75% chance, from 60% chance)
50% longer duration < 1.25% chance?....

Hmm... you like math?... 6 out of 10 times immobilizing versus 7-8 out of 10 times immobilizing ones enemy which is better? What good is your extra 2 seconds if you cant land the effect? I guess that extra 2 seconds is great if you have to stop and think about what your next attack will be once you observe "omg! they are immobilized!" Utilized better, that +15% chance gives you a much greater advantage.

You do realize we could do an entire extra skill within that 2 seconds right? like an extra spirit blast to gain extra chi/ aqua impact to drain your opponent's chi, o wait you don't like those effects =/.
However, w/ those after those 2 extra seconds guess what? your glacial shards is off cool down and you can use it again to freeze you opponent for ANOTHER 4 seconds, which considering your opinion on SB i don't understand why you don't like this then.

Soul of Silence (Demon wins +5)
Silence effect increased to 5 seconds, from 3 seconds
Chance of Silence +20% (1.2x) chance from initial chance
66% increase in duration < 1.2x chance (about +7% in full +12 gear), i want what your smoking

Again, please see glacial shards just above, for i do not feel i need to repeat this as it is the very same thing
Again same the thing with Glacial shards, only the %s are even more in sage's favor

Soulburn (Demon wins +6)
+2 seconds duration of effect to 10 seconds (from 8 seconds) = 10 sec effect, 20 sec before can cast again
-5 seconds till cooldown = 8 sec effect, 17 sec before can cast again
according to math, sage = target SBed for 33.33% of time, demon = SBed for 32% of time and sage uses less chi/second...

Really? Sage casts its sb and their victim is at the sage's mercy for 10 seconds... ok... but out of 30 seconds only 10 seconds have passed till the rest of your cooldown starts to tick... that leaves 20 seconds till your next sb comes up (again, I think this comes down to utilizing time a lil better tho). Demon casts its sb and sure their victim is at the demon's mercy for a mere 8 seconds... but out of 25 seconds 8 seconds have already passed and I have only 17 seconds till i can either hit my victim again or find another victim... I'll take demon thank you, oh wait... I did take demon
Already explained that sage keeps target SB for longer and for less chi...normally i cant even keep enough chi to spam SB every 30 secs in pvp as a sage, w/ using my chi for vector and psy will, no idea how you can manage it

Dylena - Raging Tide

No offense, I skipped most of it after reading first page..from an archer perspective that **** ALL psys easy, demon is by far a bigger issue then a sage. Sage might be tankier but lets face it, when a purge hits your culti is pure **** whilst demon does a huge harm with all their crits etc. I'm not a psy but I do fight them and I can tell you for sure, sage is more of a support while demon is an offensive player.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Dylena - Raging Tide wrote: »

No offense, I skipped most of it after reading first page..from an archer perspective that **** ALL psys easy, demon is by far a bigger issue then a sage. Sage might be tankier but lets face it, when a purge hits your culti is pure **** whilst demon does a huge harm with all their crits etc. I'm not a psy but I do fight them and I can tell you for sure, sage is more of a support while demon is an offensive player.

even... meeee? b:puzzled b:pleased b:kiss