Will They Ever Change The Debuff Immunity Sins Have?
ogunernile
Posts: 99 Arc User
Just looking for opinions in hopes that they generate some ideas. We all know how impossibly OP sins are and that they [the people we keep giving money to] don't care enough to chance anything [players quitting cause their gods, er i mean their sins, are mortal, er i mean balanced] or change anything cause that would take a massive overhaul.
The thing that makes PWI what it is are the players. The friends we can't leave behind, the desire to be the one that figures out how to bring balance back to the game. Those of us that play on the regular realize how pointless it is unless you a wizard or barb [and even that is precarious at best]. Why in a game where PvP is really the only enjoyable end game activity, are there classes that just dominate no matter what?
And to make things worse, the same type of players play sins: egotistical, immature players that abuse the system no matter how it affects how others enjoy the game. Very few sin players actually have any skill. Most just debuff aps to death and you can't do squat back cause the have immunity to what you wanna do. Oh and if the attack fails there's always stealth. But we all know this so the real question is, unless you don't care why do we keep giving them money? Do we realize if we boycotted the game [or at least spending on it] that it would force them to change things? These are things i think of. i made a r9 sin [for farming..if the system is broken i intend to use it to help others] and he's level 103 so i have experience from both ends of the topic, but enough about what I think. What about you?
The thing that makes PWI what it is are the players. The friends we can't leave behind, the desire to be the one that figures out how to bring balance back to the game. Those of us that play on the regular realize how pointless it is unless you a wizard or barb [and even that is precarious at best]. Why in a game where PvP is really the only enjoyable end game activity, are there classes that just dominate no matter what?
And to make things worse, the same type of players play sins: egotistical, immature players that abuse the system no matter how it affects how others enjoy the game. Very few sin players actually have any skill. Most just debuff aps to death and you can't do squat back cause the have immunity to what you wanna do. Oh and if the attack fails there's always stealth. But we all know this so the real question is, unless you don't care why do we keep giving them money? Do we realize if we boycotted the game [or at least spending on it] that it would force them to change things? These are things i think of. i made a r9 sin [for farming..if the system is broken i intend to use it to help others] and he's level 103 so i have experience from both ends of the topic, but enough about what I think. What about you?
Post edited by ogunernile on
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Comments
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ogunernile wrote: »unless you a wizard or barb
1st time the panda has seen his class included in a QQ0 -
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ogunernile wrote: »why is moderator calling this qq? do you think by taking away from the validity of this discussion you can quell the dissidence?
Because like anyone this panda Mod is free to express his opinion. And yes it is QQ, have seen this thread 1000x an sorry, dont diss the untamed.0 -
Oh joy. More of this ****. Can someone just make a public QQ thread in lower depths to save us some time?0
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Because like anyone this panda Mod is free to express his opinion. And yes it is QQ, have seen this thread 1000x an sorry, dont diss the untamed.
so you've seen this 1000x but this is the first time your class is involved? Hmmm....also if this is qq and you've seen it 1000x doesn't that mean it's time to see if there is any truth to this qq?
maybe just maybe qq is the only recourse a person has to get **** off their chest so they don't quit this bs game. but do you care? i doubt it. then again who does. oh...only the people qqing i guess.
or am i wasting your time by mind controlling you to read this?0 -
This QQ is the same old "whaaaa, sins are OP," thread that has been made ad nauseum since the fish were introduced. The devs have already taken steps to make them less effective, but they are doing so in ways that doesn't directly change the way skills people invested in work. Or the way gear paid real money for work.
And barbs are rarely included because if anything the old classes need to be made stronger to compete with the newer ones.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Silvy for the superb sig
VenusArmani's word of the moment: Expand your Vocabulary, Expand your horizons!
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Pusillanimous:
1) lacking courage or resolution; cowardly; faint-hearted
2) Proceeding from or indicating a cowardly spirit0 -
Barbs definitely do not need to be made anymore op then they are now. Niether do wizards. All this talk of sins bieng op in pvp ....
If a person were to spend 50k us $ on a sin, it would still loose 50% of the time or more to a one v one against a barb if you also spend 50k on it. Same goes for a wizard too. Also a psy and Probably just about anyclass.
The sin is the least welcome character to mass pvp.0 -
So if they nerfed sins, what would that do?
Next up, there would be QQ about Archers. Once they nerf that, probably Psychics. After that, barbs.
And that's still assuming they don't starts QQing about gear. Personally what I find ridiculous is to be oneshot by any R9 before I got much of a chance to even see what class they are.
And you don't seem to realize that there's a point behind having the immunity skills. Assassins are light armor, so they got **** defenses. Assassins also do not get any defense boosting skills, unlike most other classes. Also, unlike Archers, who are the only class without a native defensive buff, we're melee range. So we don't even get a range advantage of any kind.
The thing is, once you have "enough" damage, the weaknesses of each class starts to fade out. And that just tells you that the gear is the problem, not the classes. And hell, in the Assassin's case, it's not that we get massive defenses, it's that our damage reaches a point that most classes just can't tank it for extended periods of time.
Hell, one of the key reasons I don't really do PvP is because even if I have much better gear than the average player, I'm still a one or two shot to the regular PvPers, most of which are G16 Nirvana or R9.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Hmm, I wonder what would happen if they got rid of Attack and Defense level bonuses on R9/NV3rd cast gear and in it's place put the slaying and warding levels (PvE only)... b:question[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Remember my name. For it's the one you will fear in your waking nightmares...0 -
excerptogunernile wrote: »Hmmm....also if this is qq and you've seen it 1000x doesn't that mean it's time to see if there is any truth to this qq?
I've always been puzzled by the attitude "oh, it's just another qq'ing about op sins"
and immediately discount it because it's been seen "1000x before."
ANY OTHER BUSINESS WOULD PANIC AT THOUSANDS OF THEIR
CUSTOMERS COMPLAINING ABOUT ONE CERTAIN ASPECT OF
THEIR BUSINESS, AND TAKE IMMEDIATE STEPS TO RECTIFY IT.
I suppose in this case, it's not hurting their bottom line, so no need.0 -
This topic is new, original and very informative.0
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The only thing I feel that is in favor of the assassin class is the new dev team who created them instead of using the balanced tideborn race used in P2P PW (Psy are also balanced there too) is that the sins have every CC skill at that disposal. Not to mention with Occult Ice which tbh should only freeze not lock your character(which yes any class can use, but it's a favorite of the sin and a few BM's) gives the sin the edge in any PvP situation where unless they are severely outgeared or the target is in HA. They pretty much sit their and kiss their butt good bye while the sin wails on them. And lastly the amount of chi gain they get from stuff is astounding. Sin's can pretty much stay with max sparks at any given time between their apsing and skills.0
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sins really arent OP, its just the gear+the skill set up atm. play a private server w/ no jones blessing where top end gear is tt99 that you have to actually work for. aps sins we're hitting my mage for 250/hit while i had 5.3k hp and i was ticking there charm in one hit. cotd sins were hitting me for ~900 hit but still not enough to take me down w/o some luck and skill involved. It also doesn't help that everyone runs around w/ a +12 weapon and +8-10 gear. In the old days, the better refines we're like +5 across the board. +5 gear tanking +5 weapon, it took actual skill to win then. Sins can be very annoying in pvp w/ their massive arsenal of control skills, but tidal/focused mind arent really that bad but once you figure them out. If anything about a sin needed to be nurfed, it would be 1 less stun but thats it[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Suggestion, every class has a built in weakness and the skilled players learn what they are and exploit them, spend more energy looking for enemies weakness and less on QQ.There are old Warriors, and bold Warriors,
but there are very few old bold Warriors. b:chuckle0 -
ogunernile wrote: »so you've seen this 1000x but this is the first time your class is involved? Hmmm....also if this is qq and you've seen it 1000x doesn't that mean it's time to see if there is any truth to this qq?
The point is not that it's not true, the point is everyone and their mothers are tired of the same old QQing about sins.
Sins are only OP in 1v1 PVP (also, PVE, but w/e, not the point here), and even then that's mostly because not enough people learn to use genies/pots well enough. Devs are working on creating ways to reduce their PVP advantage anyway, so the QQ is getting pointless. Wizards now have that awesome morai skill that purifies them and teleports them away from direct melee damage. Weapons with Purify Spell were introduced in endgame content (R8r and R9rr), and I assume the "nerf" in Absolute Domain, making it no longer a squad thing, also was meant for 1v1 PVP against sins, for its duration was increased from 3 to 5 seconds, so you can pop an IG when the stun is over and while still immune to movement debuffs.ogunernile wrote: »maybe just maybe qq is the only recourse a person has to get **** off their chest so they don't quit this bs game. but do you care? i doubt it. then again who does. oh...only the people qqing i guess.
Nah, there's one other way, which is learning to use your genie/skills in PVP - have at least one anti-stun skill in your genie if you're going to 1v1. Kite soon as you're able to move. Stun/sleep/freeze the sin and 1-2 shot him/her. Good job, you just won a fight.ogunernile wrote: »or am i wasting your time by mind controlling you to read this?
I think the whole mind controlling thing is a terrible thing indeed, you should stop doing it ASAP.0 -
Descendus - Lost City wrote: »Hmm, I wonder what would happen if they got rid of Attack and Defense level bonuses on R9/NV3rd cast gear and in it's place put the slaying and warding levels (PvE only)... b:question
You would have a massive uproar, as most members of major TW factions would now find that they've paid thousands of dollars for what is effectively glorified Morai armor, while the weapons would just be glorified G15 Nirvana.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
augustfinknottle wrote: »
Nah, there's one other way, which is learning to use your genie/skills in PVP - have at least one anti-stun skill in your genie if you're going to 1v1. Kite soon as you're able to move. Stun/sleep/freeze the sin and 1-2 shot him/her. Good job, you just won a fight.
Lol this guy seems to of forgetten the OPness of Tidal Protection and the range of a sin/lag in Kiting. Many times a person will start running away from a sin, but in the first 2-3 seconds of running away the sin can still hit and even well geared ppl can die to that.
Id like to see you try stun/sleep/freeze a sin effectively xDG_tar_God ~ 104
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G_tar_God - Dreamweaver wrote: »Lol this guy seems to of forgetten the OPness of Tidal Protection and the range of a sin/lag in Kiting. Many times a person will start running away from a sin, but in the first 2-3 seconds of running away the sin can still hit and even well geared ppl can die to that.
Id like to see you try stun/sleep/freeze a sin effectively xD
Tidal has a 50% proc rate, so it's really flipping a coin. Unless in the somewhat rare case of sage sins, in which it does get pretty OP at 66%. Also, sins can't be perma-tidaled. There's a 30s interval between casting it. In open PVP it's fairly common for it to be cooling down (assuming we're talking about open PVP, not just stealth->random attack from stealth double sparked with occult ice, in which case having tidal on or not doesn't really mean much).
I'm not saying sins are not OP, only that they are not impossible to 1v1 when you can play your class. Also, that tidal is a chance of, so even if you don't have 100% chance of stunning them, you still have the 50% left. If you take tidal off, sins become probably the easiest prey to archers and probably all casters, so it means more an unbalancing than a balancing of PVP.
You'd make sins completely useless in any kind of PVP, making them exclusively a farming class. Pretty lame, if you ask me.0 -
Nerf Tidal Protection down to 20% like a mystic's Demon Verdant Shell. Sage Tidal can go up to 33%.
gg.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
I Subtraction.
/blatant sig copy is blatant
105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
if htey nurfed it, i'd say 33% base 50% for sage. since 50% does seem to proc quite often[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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The only thing I feel that is in favor of the assassin class is the new dev team who created them instead of using the balanced tideborn race used in P2P PW (Psy are also balanced there too) is that the sins have every CC skill at that disposal. Not to mention with Occult Ice which tbh should only freeze not lock your character(which yes any class can use, but it's a favorite of the sin and a few BM's) gives the sin the edge in any PvP situation where unless they are severely outgeared or the target is in HA. They pretty much sit their and kiss their butt good bye while the sin wails on them. And lastly the amount of chi gain they get from stuff is astounding. Sin's can pretty much stay with max sparks at any given time between their apsing and skills.
i'd like to add tidal protection blocking purge...
there is a difference between removing buffs and adding negative buffs(debuffs)...
well same goes some psy soulforce buffs that cant be removed...
so yeah the dev team who came up with tideborns probably didn't know what they were doing, just making their fishies cool and op...i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
tbh, this may sound like a QQ thread...but i agree cuz it's the truth.
Sin class is pretty OP regarding pvp, especially end game with tidal (especially sage tidal), and i know that from personal expereince cuz i do play a 105 sage sin also...and with right genie set-up + apo u can never die. U can combine tidal, op genie, apo together and repeat them in cycle and never DIE with all those over-lapping control skills... Worst case when everything is on cooldown? OH look i got this force stealth which ALSO give me free 1 spark...and guess what? I'm lvl 105 so i'll hit this skill and walk away till genie is not on CD anymore. End-game sin is pretty much impossible to beat in 1on1 even if the user is medium-skilled lvl and the other class user is like EXPERT lvl.
Oh and not to mention my demon sin i solo 3-3 on all day in 40ish mins. b:laugh
So what does that mean? Sin class is no broken and OP? I* the person who uses it saying himself that the class is broken lol.
lol and i also agree with the fact that end-game barbs are OP and so are the end-game mages in pvp.
Idk about psychic or archer as of now b4 3rd cast r9, they are not OP ~_~....but i believe psychics will be OP with purify proc weapon for sure end-game.
but yeh as they say, if you can't beat them, join them =P0 -
augustfinknottle wrote: »Tidal has a 50% proc rate, so it's really flipping a coin. Unless in the somewhat rare case of sage sins, in which it does get pretty OP at 66%. Also, sins can't be perma-tidaled. There's a 30s interval between casting it. In open PVP it's fairly common for it to be cooling down (assuming we're talking about open PVP, not just stealth->random attack from stealth double sparked with occult ice, in which case having tidal on or not doesn't really mean much).
I'm not saying sins are not OP, only that they are not impossible to 1v1 when you can play your class. Also, that tidal is a chance of, so even if you don't have 100% chance of stunning them, you still have the 50% left. If you take tidal off, sins become probably the easiest prey to archers and probably all casters, so it means more an unbalancing than a balancing of PVP.
You'd make sins completely useless in any kind of PVP, making them exclusively a farming class. Pretty lame, if you ask me.
you forgot one thing.......a sin with a AD/Fortify/Faith genie......what are you doing then?0 -
Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »Nerf Tidal Protection down to 20% like a mystic's Demon Verdant Shell. Sage Tidal can go up to 33%.
gg.
Great idea.....make it useful without making it unstoppable.0 -
Selak - Dreamweaver wrote: »Suggestion, every class has a built in weakness and the skilled players learn what they are and exploit them, spend more energy looking for enemies weakness and less on QQ.
lmao you don't play a sin...or if you do you haven't played them enough to understand....cause i refuse to think an intelligent person cannot see where the problem is. some people practice hard, my self included, and i am human so i do get frustrated when a player of weak skill can consistently win with only one toon doing the same tired *** combo and you are forced to make the same class just to compete.0 -
VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »This QQ is the same old "whaaaa, sins are OP," thread that has been made ad nauseum since the fish were introduced. The devs have already taken steps to make them less effective, but they are doing so in ways that doesn't directly change the way skills people invested in work. Or the way gear paid real money for work.
And barbs are rarely included because if anything the old classes need to be made stronger to compete with the newer ones.
so let me get this straight....it's okay to keep an unbalanced classed the way it casuse people paid money to gear up the class that requires the least gear?
and what about the people who paid to gear up a bm? or laughable as it sounds a cleric?
what do they have to do? at this point we eat it and and just take it up the bung hole? that's fair?0 -
ogunernile wrote: »you forgot one thing.......a sin with a AD/Fortify/Faith genie......what are you doing then?
As an archer... I go stealth and watch as the sin look like a damn idiot.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
stop QQing about sins and QQ about barbs with full R9+12 and 40K+ hp... yea ur not going to kill them one on one... b:pleased0
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Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »As an archer... I go stealth and watch as the sin look like a damn idiot.
unless he can see you....and what about the other classes that don't have that option? you seem adamant about refusing to take in all accounts. do you have a sin?0
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