Does Stormrage Eagleon still useless?

Maybe it wouldn't be if it didn't cost sparks

Using stormrage to deal damage? lol.

12k metal damage over 30 seconds. Since DoTs tick once every 3 seconds that's 10 ticks of 1.2k. Everyone in PK will have at least 50% elemental resist so that's 600 damage per tick for 10 ticks, and this is a best case, after all. Then we take into account the 75% PvP reduction that results in you dealing 150 damage with a DoT every 3 seconds for 30 seconds.

..... By the time anyone with decent gear is in the 90s, 150 damage every 3 seconds doesn't mean **** to them.


Hell, let's assume demon stormrage so it's a 15 second DoT and let's take out their magic defense out of the picture. That's still 12k damage with a 75% PvP reduction that drops it to 3k damage.... and then that damage is dealt over 15 seconds so you have 5 ticks of 600 damage each.

...... OR you could double/triple spark and do far more damage immediately. See, the difference between Stormrage and... say... Tempest is that stormrage turns what could be a potentially devastating skill into a craptastic DoT skill that everyone will laugh at. Considering the DoT itself is set damage and can't crit and the initial damage is an auto-attack in metal damage form (base damage) no way in hell would anyone who has a functional brain blow their sparks on Stormrage if they aren't about to make babies with another female archer, or just **** around in general.

DoTs are bad since they can never crit and don't benefit from attack levels. All archers go for builds with high crit and attack level.

Also it is impossible for a skill with a DoT to purge the target if you have a purge bow.

Though I usually feel that Stormrage only usefulness is its look, I am wondering if it can't have its use in caster vana, when the 3 other metal skills are on cooldown.

Docpetiot - Sanctuary wrote: »

Though I usually feel that Stormrage only usefulness is its look, I am wondering if it can't have its use in caster vana, when the 3 other metal skills are on cooldown.

If it weren't with ? bosses where you have that same damage reduction as against players in PK and if it weren't a 2 spark skill then it might have some slight merit (as in it doesn't really have any but we'd be able to simply ignore that most of the time because odds are the boss wouldn't last too long anyways).... but as is you'd still be better to save that chi for sparks if your goal is to deal any damage instead of making the fight last longer.

People are forgetting about sage SE... That was never useless.

inb4sagehatersqqingaboutsagestormrage

Slow could be useful though if bosses' HP weren't so high but still. But definitely could prove helpful on kiting elite mobs.

truekossy wrote: »

You aren't using it for the damage if you find yourself forced to use sage stormrage.

Sage SE is also irrelevant if there is a barb in squad using frighten. Then again, if there is a barb in squad, you probably wouldn't even think about using SE...

Double the 12K metal damage to 24K due to having led with Thunder Shock. Now we have to determine if this is more damage then what would have been produced by double sparking.

Assuming you get 8 shots into a 12 second double spark using a bow and weapon damage is being tripled due to the spark if your average weapon damage is more than 1K you will do more damage with a double spark. I think all archers over 90 should be averaging more than 1K wep damage.

The numbers would make Stormrage look worse with interval gear and if the 2 sparks were viewed as contributing to a triple spark.

I think Wood mobs have half the metal defense to begin with. If the Thunder Shock reduction stacks with this then you would need average wep damage of over 2K to be better off with a double spark.

I think a 90 level archer with a crossbow attacking a Wood boss might be better off using Stormrage then double sparking. But most often archers would be better off just sparking.

I don't think it matters that Stormrage converts the shot into metal damage and have not included that in the analysis. If all you want is a shot converted to metal damage there are other skills that do that without costing sparks so only the DOT can possibly be a deciding factor.

Only way the DoT would be any good in that skill is if they modified it to do x% of your damage over time. Kind of like Take Aim, but over time. That way it remains relevant as characters become more powerful.

truekossy wrote: »

If it weren't with ? bosses where you have that same damage reduction as against players in PK and if it weren't a 2 spark skill then it might have some slight merit (as in it doesn't really have any but we'd be able to simply ignore that most of the time because odds are the boss wouldn't last too long anyways).... but as is you'd still be better to save that chi for sparks if your goal is to deal any damage instead of making the fight last longer.

As I said, I was speaking about caster vana bosses, which are physical immune.
So you have to take into consideration:

- 7.4s for a full TS+LS+TB cycle,
- 8s cooldown for TS, meanning 0.6s to fill, and 30 chi required
- the fact that caster bosses got a bad habit to freeze and stun
- normal shot will only have the fire damage
- as demon, I can benefit the 70% fire damage during a whole spark cycle (20s > 15s) but casting blazing arrow is horribly long (3.8s)

Considering those facts, I am not convinced that stormrage is the way to go, but I was wondering if, in this precise situation, it cannot be handy at time.

Edit: With a r9+12 bow, I will not even consider Stormrage handy for a second. I started caster with r8+2, which is +5 now, and the damage I see from normal shot (fire damage) do not convince me.

truekossy wrote: »

Sorry, but I stopped reading right there.

And yet you continue to quote and respond to the rest of my post ...

truekossy wrote: »

As for the rest of your post, your understanding of the game mechanics is horribly off.


To begin with, what you should have been considering was base physical attack and not weapon damage.

No, I should have been considering weapon damage. I was comparing the value of Stormrage to using the two sparks it uses for sparking. Pray tell, what does sparking do? It increases weapon damage by a percentage.

As to the workings of how defense values affect damage I was just trying to quickly go through the numbers to show the OP why it is almost always better to use the two sparks Stormrage consumes for sparking. If you interpreted it as something else than that then its your mistake.

3 pages for this? lol

by all means please do continue to use stormrage if you feel that it is worth it, there's no hope saving you anyways.
i love how people are trying to factor in sage stormrage...

d stormrage was only ever useful for 105

truekossy wrote: »

b:dirty

Like we dont have many already ............

If you don't want to read, scroll to the bottom. If that gets you annoyed, offended, or whatever, look back up and read the post to see the basic math behind it. If you still can't understand after this post then, to be blunt, you're hopeless and a waste of time aside from an attempt to kill boredom.

laloner wrote: »

Double sparking increases weapon damage by 300% and I was comparing the damage of Stormrage to the what could have been done by double sparking instead. I was also looking for a single over/under number that tells you when you will do more damage from double sparking. I stand by using only weapon's damage in determining when a weapon will do more damage from double sparking, we obviously disagree on this.

The problem that I'm trying to explain to you is... damage does not work that way. Let's simplify things and say you have a weapon attack of exactly 500 on an archer with exactly 150 dex and happen to be unsparked and unbuffed.

Using the formula

base damage = attack multiplier * weapon attack

and combining with

attack multiplier = 1 + ( Dex / 150 ) + weapon mastery + physical attack buffs

Since I've simplified it so much. You'll get a base damage = 2*500. That means base damage there is 1000. That means you're dealing 1k damage per hit unsparked, Assuming this is with a bow's 0.67 attacks per second (or roughly 1.5 seconds per attack), that means in 18 seconds you'd do the 12k damage of Stormrage, since you'd need 12 attacks.

Now, if we assume you double spark and add the 300% weapon damage into things, that raises your damage to 2500, that means you'll do the 12k damage in 5 attacks or 7.5 seconds. Why is it only 2500 instead of 3k? Because sparking ALSO does not work that way. It adds the % of boosted weapon damage to your phys attack directly. So it would actually be 2*500+3*500 and not 2*500*3.


Now do you see the point I was making. Your assumption, due to lack of proper knowledge, is way off since double sparked, something with half the weapon attack you proposed was enough to do what you were saying in half the shots. Hell, even single sparked, only half of the weapon damage you were proposing would be required to out-damage Stormrage. Plus it would do so in 7 hits instead of the 8 you were saying. If you were saying total damage, then sure. Even though you'd have still been wrong about how the DoT itself and defense worked, you'd have at least had something right about your post aside from the conclusion. However, as things stand and like I said previously, a correct conclusion for completely incorrect reasons is still as bad as an incorrect conclusion.

For example, let's assume for a second that the first part of this post were right instead of being... ya know.... completely wrong in every way.

laloner wrote: »

I think Wood mobs have half the metal defense to begin with. If the Thunder Shock reduction stacks with this then you would need average wep damage of over 2K to be better off with a double spark.

With 2k weapon damage, and 150 dex, you're looking at 4k damage per hit. Since your original assumption is stormrage dealing 24k in DoT form due to Thunder Shock and that it's getting doubled to 48k on a wood mob, that means that this theoretical 2k weapon damage would need 12 hits to do the damage. 13 if we included stormrage's initial hit. That's the UNSPARKED amount. If it was double sparked, you'd be looking at 10k damage per hit. 5 hits overtakes your superstormrage's DoT. 6 hits overtakes the DoT and initial damage. 9 hits overtakes superstrormage and the initial DoT as well as the damage the someone would do following up with autos during that time.

Then we get to

laloner wrote: »

I think a 90 level archer with a crossbow attacking a Wood boss might be better off using Stormrage then double sparking. But most often archers would be better off just sparking.

A conclusion that's completely wrong based on your completely mistaken idea about how damage works. Had you actually known how damage works or used something aside from "just weapon damage" in a way completely against how the game actually works, you'd have realized that the only times where Stormrage would be of any use.... are times when you can't even have learned stormrage, nor used it if you could have learned it.








tl;dr version: You're completely wrong in all regards except for the conclusion that double sparking beats stormrage. Aside from that, all your theories, reasoning, numbers, and the like are completely wrong. This is a fact supported by how the game actually works and not a matter of opinion.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

If it were improved in one or many of the following ways, it would be a skill worth considering in certain situations:

AOE
cost 1 spark
not countered by Holy Path, Sprints, etc (inflicts archer stealth's ms reduction)
did Soulforce in damage over time
80+% slow
was not a damage over time skill

b:cute