Sooo... Did clerics get screwed on new skills?

Prettymcbabe - Sanctuary wrote: »

oh for the love of god, please can some mod end this thread, if only for the reason to quite this "futurelord"? Seriously, my neck is killing me from looking up at him on his pedestal. lord knows Im thankful he's on a different server, Id hate to think of having him/her is squad with me...lol sorry futurelord, you're just not the top authority on Clerics, and their skills. you may be an adequate cleric, but Ill bet you're more trouble than its worth...lol you probably just bark out at everyone in squad, telling them what they do wrong, I mean since you're rarely wrong, that is what you said isn't it? You have your style of play, other people have theirs, why be so critical about them? and he is one thing you are wrong about, when two clerics are in squad, never have I seen them fight, and when I'm on my cleric, I have never had to argue about who heals or DD's, sorry if you and the clerics you've played with have had a hard time figuring out something so simple...lol

^This

wh0 is this n0n fact0r I have never heard 0f D:<?. S0 far all I have figured 0ut ab0ut him is that he measures his epeen daily checking f0r a +1 inch due t0 s0me bad experience he had has a l0wbie.

Futurelord - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You support bad grammar and spelling. Get off the level 2 alt.

But to the real reason I'm posting in this thread again. I will say this once, and only once.

I. AM. FUTURELORD. HEAR. ME. ROAR!

b:cuteb:chuckleb:cute

(Giggles all the way home)

uhm, alt? Really now, be nice. This was just the char I posted with back when I played a few years ago. I just forgot how to change it back. This is my first time on the forums in years--because of the server crash. Wanted to see what was up.

And I could care less if his grammar sucks, it doesn't mean I support it. I understood him--as should anyone with a basic understanding of the English language, and that's all that matters.

One point about the DD mode for clerics, which i think can be useful btw

Let's say my friend and i BOTH are taking our clerics to do something. How many healing clerics do you need? one can relax and DD while the other takes care of the heals like normal.
right now, an exta cleric is a 5th wheel. redundant healing and lame dd.

sure, solo mode may not be real cool with no heals lol, but thinking squad makeup..i can see it being used...

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the rez with no exp loss is only fair to clerics. how many times have you cleric operators(with no mystic around obviously) been the chosen one to release and walk back to the stinkin' instance so you can rez everyone waiting for you after some nab wiped you all.

who loses exp AND gets to walk while everyone else is making a sandwich and WCing or w/e lol?

also, i dont have to wait until i ding and am at 0.0% to try really crazy and usually suicidal stuff lol.

My cleric is a TW cleric. That is the sole purpose of my cleric. 100% support. In TWs, I mostly heal, occasionally rez when my squad remembers not to release right away, and I debuff enemy tanks, as well as surviving the attacks of enemy archers and assassins, the only two classes that really have a decent chance of killing me in TW. And I've been thinking about some things.

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REGARDING THE DAMAGE OUTPUT OF CLERICS IN "Purple Night Dance" (Metal Mage) Mode:

Are buffs heals?

Buffs do not aggro. Normal buffs do not heal anybody; even lvl 11 sage celestial guardian's seal, though it heals, does not draw aggro (all true heals draw aggro). So are buffs heals? I say, no, they are not.

Can you use buffs in metal mage mode?

You should be able to. That means, Futurelord, that your primary argument (the damage increase is no good) invalid: you can STACK demon spirit's gift or sage magic shell with metal mage mode. Buffs are not heals.

Furthermore, clearly in metal mage mode you can spark, and unlike demon spirit's gift, triple spark will get the metal mage 60-100% bonus damage, which multiplies the damage increase greatly.

VERDICT: Damage gain isn't huge, but it is still noticeably more than clerics can currently obtain now. Useful in role of support dd cleric in squad; limited TW usefulness, since clerics don't typically dd in TW.

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REGARDING THE USEFULNESS OF THE SKILL "Sincere"

This skill does not appear to require metal mage mode to use. Thus, this skill, assuming it has the same range as the healing skills (ironheart and stream of rejuvenation) is INCREDIBLY useful. Clearly it can be used to save yourself, yes, but... its true purpose is to save others. With a catapult barb that you are healing at the enemy crystal, its pretty easy to tell the moment when your heals are just not going to be enough. This skill not only stops a death, it recovers... well if its a barb we are talking about, 50% hp is a lot of hp! It almost certainly will buy another charm tick. This one skill could be the difference maker; if your barb stays alive 10 seconds longer than he would have otherwise, it could be the difference between victory or defeat.

VERDICT: Skill is very useful under any situation where you need to buy yourself or an ally more time for heals to take effect.

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REGARDING THE USEFULNESS OF THE SKILL "Arc Ray of Disease"

As a cleric, when my squad is taking light damage or no damage, I switch to debuffing enemies. With so many friendly dds around, debuffing is often more useful than doing actual damage. I might not be able to one-hit anybody, but a 15-20 second immobilize will surely buy enough time for my allies to do the deed. Sleeping the barb running towards my base can give time for my allies to come and start attacking. Seal of the gods can stop anybody in their tracks for 15s. The bm who keeps poking away at my squad might have too much hp for me to kill efficiently, but debuff his magic defense and I can laugh as an ally wizard one-shots.

This skill is essentially a 15% damage increase amp, if the damage is averaged out, and it stacks with your own debuffs and extreme poison and hf and veno amp...

Reading this skill, it seems to me (I could be wrong) that the target has a 15% increased chance to take a crit hit from anybody, not just your squad. Sounds to me like I'll be throwing this at enemy barbs a lot.

VERDICT: Useful amp skill/support debuff.

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REGARDING THE USEFULNESS OF THE SKILL "Aurora Magic Ray"

Ok. As I see this, this gives the potential for clerics to act like the suicidal blademaster running into a group of enemies to hf. I can just see it now: clerics running into a group of 20+ enemies with ironguard on and using this skill. With +12 weapons and gear, 18000 hp... there are very few players I know of that have over 18k hp, even of the r9 ones. Ok, even if we said, "the buff will be good for 10k hp". Not every cleric is going to have +12 gear after all, lol, but +10 is reasonable to expect.

I don't full understand how this debuff works. The way I read it, if my buff is good for 10k hp, that means when an enemy's charm ticks, it'll tick to 10k hp less than their max. For some players, that is MORE than their max. So, if a person has 15k hp and I use my debuff, their charm would tick to 5k hp. Correct me if I'm wrong? Does this debuff stop enemy clerics heals from working on the affected people? If so, all the better.

With the assumption that I'm right, this is ENORMOUSLY offensive and useful as a support skill. Think of how many well-geared players don't use their genie until their charm ticks. This is natural; they can save their genie for when they really need it by letting their gear buy them some time. But with this debuff on, when the charm ticks, suddenly, the r9 is still close to death. Non-r9s would be essentially one hit from death. And this debuff, which is AOE, lasts for 30 SECONDS. Thats a freakin long time!

In other words, hugely offensive support skill. In this type of role, the cleric is not doing the damage him/herself (though if the ig permits time, could tempest before dying), but it greatly assists your allies in killing all the affected people. Caveat: we don't know how large the range of this skill will be; my guess is 10-12meters, but it could be less. Even as a single target attack, on an enemy barb, enormously useful.

VERDICT: Pending until more information is known; under current information, will be an enormously offensive support skill.

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REGARDING USEFULNESS OF SKILL "Tianyin Thunderstorm Symbol"

When my squad is taking light damage, I plan on switching to metal mage mode and staying in it until I am required to heal again, during which time I can instantly switch back to healing squad. But as any proficient cleric knows, clerics in TW are not *just* about healing. As I mentioned before, debuffing, buffing... and come to think of it, rezzing can all be done in metal mage mode.

So when I'm flying above my squad, and I spot an enemy, I'll immobilize him and maybe toss on this Tianyin Thunderstorm Symbol before flying on. I don't have time to actually kill the person myself of course; I need to keep up with my squad.

Its passive damage. The debuff lasts for an entire MINUTE, which will reduce the offensive capabilities of the person in question, if he/she wishes to not take damage. +12 weapon base damage is not insignificant. If I am with a cata squad and we are trying to squeeze past a defending squad, I might toss this onto the archer before switching back to heal mode. For the next minute I'll be poking away at this archer via this buff, should he wish to attack anybody in my squad. Meanwhile my squad will be getting heals from me, and the archer in question will be under assault from other players as well.

Again, this leads to increased likelihood of the death or fleeing of the person onto whom the debuff was cast. Sounds pretty useful to me. Of course, this is the ultimate anti-sin attack; 30% chance per hit only, you say; but your base damage is much higher than an assassin's. The hit you do 30% of the time will be hitting him much harder than the hits he is doing you. Through in bramble into the mix and the sin has a good chance (cleric in jades more defense than most aps sins) of suiciding on you, without you needing to heal once.

And get this: the buff will still activate even if you aren't taking damage. I can see it now: sin triple sparks next to me; I cast debuff and expel; sin hits me at 5aps and dies a few seconds later, or flees because of the damage he is taking.

VERDICT: Some usefulness as non-heal support.

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REGARDING THE SKILL "Blessing of the Gods"

Nothing needs to be said... I have lost count of the # of times I have lost XP on my demon or sage cleric due to an accident in FC or BH or...

VERDICT: No support value, but enormously useful to the cleric him/herself.

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So. Overall verdict?

Without comparing these skills to any of the other new skills that the other classes are getting, these skills are pretty good. For my support cleric in TW, it opens up many new ways in which I can increase my usefulness.

Remember: healing your squad is not the only way to save your squad. Helping your enemies die faster is another way of keeping your squad alive. If they aren't there to hit you, you aren't taking damage, and the heals become unnecessary! Thus in general, the debuffs clerics are getting to increase the likelihood of people dying are, indeed, very good support skills.

Sure other classes get a myriad of very cool new skills. But if you open your eyes to the possibilities, I think you'll see that by no means did clerics get shafted.


Azzazin

killing you softly

I can agree to that. The skills DO seem mostly designed as support for others, which is perfect for me, but could be annoying for a more dd-oriented/pk cleric. Cleric's always have been a more support-oriented class, but I have dabbled in pk on my cleric and found it fun; and I can definitely see that there are clerics who want to pk but feel that metal mage mode is simply too dangerous.

It might be helpful to remember that heals aren't always necessary when pking. Clever use of plume shell (and mana pots, ALWAYS spam mana pots when using plume shell), the 79 skills, good apoths, and well built genie, can reduce the need for heals. (Also, PURIFY is not a heal, and can still be used, thank goodness.)

If you can get by without heals, then the offensive abilities that metal mage mode opens up to you should make clerics a threat in pk, due to the whole slew of debuffs which they will have (the stopping-of-healing-and-charm-tick buff, crit buff, the soulburn-like debuff, and of course the regular physical/magical defense debuffs). Throw in my cleric's purify weapon and...

Well, 'shafted' or not, there is no denying that every class benefits in some manner. I suppose not many people have it in themselves to feel sympathetic to assassins, but from what I see, they gain the least from the changes; most other classes gain hugely in their abilities by comparison. (Though the aoe stealth is, of course, awesome, and the 3rd aoe has some practical value for stuff like delta.)

Cheerio,


Azzazin

killing you softly

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

The answer is 100% yes b:angry

And no I will not go into explaining again that this is a healing class not a dd class...as in you cannot heal during some of those skills...people that want to dd can or should have rolled a wizz.

~flame on~

allow the blaze to begin


b:angryb:angry


OK to be a little more serious about it. and who knows maby you might make it through more then 1 line of this wall of text lol.

yes clerics are meant to be healers, but their not 100% healers, why else would they give us a lightning bolt that hits near the dmg of sandstorm, and an ulti that's not very far behind BIDS, with a metal version of gush

ya that's not much of an excuse but still. i choose cleric over wizzy without the intent to be a main healer, but because they do far better in most circumstances, when deciding to heal theirs very few instances that aren't available. lvling goes faster, and the skill cap on cleric is higher then wizzy

in my personal opinion that is, wizzy and cleric are both great pk classes. yes cleric was originally made to be a support/healer type class but it can pk/tw offencively just as well as a wizzy but it's skill cap for doing so is a much wider gap with less room to maneuver then wizzy, due to relying heavily on timing skills rather well, and knowing what counters what. rather then which class has the higher mdef, and who to FoW/sopo on.

i find it easier to heal/support on cleric then to play an offencive pk/tw cleric due to apoth/genie ect being used on my target, as well as them being purified, when to seal and when not to. rather then just spamming IH/puri/epell + puri ect, the list goes on. and tossing a survival skill *ad, expell, shell, IG ect* on myself to keep healing, since a good healer is a living healer, and not one that'll pop at the 1st hit they take, and can keep their entire team alive, which at times can be very difficult. but when your primary focus is the cata, that job becomes much much easier, a lot easier then offence or 1v1 fights at least

wizzy

crappy wizzy > so so pk, still able to do decent against ha's
decent wizzy > decent pk, good against most ha's that aren't of a good skill lvl or top gear
good wizzy > fairly good pker, can kill quite a few things especially when they get the 1st hit off *say BIDS, or BT for eample* and good defence overal due to earth armor
great wizzy > just plain **** in tw's and is always a force you gotta watch out for

low wizzy gear > does decent in tw due to high base mag and not being seen
mid wizzy gear > does well in tw's
high wizzy gear > does amazing in tw's

*you can miss and match those to catagories your self*

cleric

crappy cleric > food to get a red name, or a heal bot that dies in 1-2 hits for tw
decent cleric > still dies pretty easily to most things but a few it can survive
good cleric > 1/2 and 1/2, it's not terrible like decent and crappy, but it's not amazing either due to alot of cleric pvp/pk reliang on good timing of seals, shields, heals, ect.
great cleric > amazing in pk/pvp, has timing down to a t and knows exactly how to counter each class, with the exception of being 1 shot by a sin

low gear cleric > depends heavily on skill lvl, but can still be a great support. but tw/pvp dmg is severly lacking due to the current meta of r8/nirv/r9
mid cleric gear > can do really well if played by a good or great cleric, r9 archers 2 shot you if their 2nd hit is a crit *3 or more if crit is the 1st hit* which when timed wrong you die easily.
high gear cleric > still skill lvl dependant since clerics rely heavily on timing, but it becomes a bit more lenient with really high end gear/refines. but when played by a great cleric who has timing down perfectly they can fully abuse the gear and rarely ever die even in tw/pk, while a good cleric still dies every now and then *or more depending on the gear of who their facing and how they time their skills*

Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

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REGARDING THE DAMAGE OUTPUT OF CLERICS IN "Purple Night Dance" (Metal Mage) Mode:

Are buffs heals?

Buffs do not aggro. Normal buffs do not heal anybody; even lvl 11 sage celestial guardian's seal, though it heals, does not draw aggro (all true heals draw aggro). So are buffs heals? I say, no, they are not.

As one who originally opposed this concept this is a very good point. If indeed all true heals draw aggro, would this, on top of exempting buffs from negation, would also allow clerics to maintain Resurrection available, since it does not draw aggro upon use? (difference of course being that the rezzed member would not be healed unless charmed or potting upon Ressurection due to MMM)

(To be truthful my main opposition was primarily based off it's MMO shall not be named equivalent, which in where may be my fallacy. Because that version disabled both heals and blessings, but increased damage, defense, and allowed the support class to siphon health from enemies, not only to heal themselves, but the party as well. Kinda like an AOE bloodpaint of sorts. PWI's increases damage and only removes heals, so there is quite a difference between the 2 b:surrender)

the new cleric skills are the most awesome new skills of all the new skills

thats all i have to say

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the new cleric skills are the most awesome new skills of all the new skills

thats all i have to say

BURN WIZARD BURN! I CAST YOU TO THE FIREY PITS OF HELL WHERE THE DEVILS AND DEMONS SHALL HAVE AT YOUR FLESH LIKE A WARM LUNCH ON A COLD DAY!!!


But in all seriousness, stop trollin this thread Mr.InodiefrommeleescauseIgetteleportedawaywhentheyattackme.

Tsukyini Do you feel like they should make it possible to name other games in the forums? The entire rule seems silly to me but whatever.

LOOK MODS LOOK! SHE BROKE THE RULES!

Hehe, sorry, just woke up for today. Mods don't care as far as I know (They only edit names out) tho your post count suggest you know this already. Have a nice day.

Futurelord - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Tsukyini Do you feel like they should make it possible to name other games in the forums? The entire rule seems silly to me but whatever.

Yes, I do. It's not like most people don't know it exists anyway.

LOOK MODS LOOK! SHE BROKE THE RULES!

Did not! All I did was name the class, not the game it comes from. b:chuckle

It may be my memory acting up, or me reading the description wrong as I myself, stuck to a more divine path or what not, so you may be right there as well

Ah I see.

Yeah I was dual spec shadow/holy, shadow for heroics, holy for raids. So unless they changed it since I last played, you could still give out blessings in shadowform.

But it is entirely possible they changed it. b:shutup

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Stopped playing when WoTLK came out. game went into easy mode then. I was druid tank >.>

Actually i have a screenshot of me humping the pink elephants in Shat while in bear form still...

Most important question: Horde or Alliance?

When I play, it's mostly on my BC twinks. I have 2 85 priests and an 85 pally and absolutely zero interest in doing anything on them. b:sad

~Enters thread~

Hi, I'm Futurelord, your friendly neighborhood cleric.

I just wanted to update you on the latest development.

So as it turns out the new DD mode (Commonly known as Metal Mage Mode) is far less powerful then we originally suspected. Also it has been noted that it disables not just heals but the aoe version of buffs and Resurrection.

As a side note I would like to inform you that the useful and quite sexy debuff that increases everyone's chance to crit the target by 15% has been changed to only work with DD mode.

So I leave you with these words of wisdom.

I. Told. You. So. !!!

~Exits Thread~

Futurelord - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Go to search and Type in under User. Futurelord - Dreamweaver.

Open every thread I ever commented on and you will only see things cleric related.



I dislike your types so much. No offence but to care about exp that much at level95+ (You can only get that passive buff a level 95, around the time most people just FC rush to 100) is just sickening. Only people who should care about this are the ones planning to get to lvl105. Even tho you did not say it outright, You implied for this very skill, clerics did not get screwed over. GRRRR! (RAGE TO THE 100TH DEGREE!!!)

dislike peeps who dont want to lose exp .. then why be a cleric .. you get squaded with 5 others all of which who QQ over exp loss " res me .. res me i dont want to release or lose exp boofreakinhoo" ... you are around them all the time

why should a cleric have to lose exp and no-one else .. not exactly fair .. i think its a good skill and as for getting screwed as you say .. many times if i squad its with 2 clerics .. its just more fun seeing screen filled with tempest n such ... its a damm good move the new skills you can go back n forth between healer n dd ..... its not a perm switch ... then whole point of doing squaded stuff is to gain exp and lvl ..... cant lvl if you keep losing exp

+1 to the guy above.
That DD mode is completely useless.