Sage Tidal Protection must be a joke

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  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Condensed thorn is **** damage, especially if you have ANY decent gear on you what so ever. The only stun that they could get off with expel on would be Shadow Teleport, since headhunt, tackling slash, and deep sting are all physical attacks, which has a 3 minute cooldown, making it easy for you to Distance Shrink away. There are tons of ways to beat sins, just gotta wait for that one mistake that they make, or you expel. Another easy way is just triple spark, expel at the same time and blast away.

    C.Thorn would allow those three skills to bypass Expel's physical immunity because of the elemental damage added to them. Even if their damage is "****", they can still stun-lock you until it wears off.

    Lets not forget that if they see something going wrong with their plan and Deaden Nerves gets ticked, they can always just force stealth and come at you again when they're ready.

    Edit: ninja'd
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  • Shayd - Raging Tide
    Shayd - Raging Tide Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    So, assassins are not overpowered enough yet? You need to brag about one freaking skill? GET OUT
    Mystic: 99 lvl (Main)
    Psychic: 96 lvl (Alt)
    Assassin: 78 lvl (Retired)
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  • Divine_Death - Harshlands
    Divine_Death - Harshlands Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Condensed thorn is **** damage, especially if you have ANY decent gear on you what so ever. The only stun that they could get off with expel on would be Shadow Teleport, since headhunt, tackling slash, and deep sting are all physical attacks, which has a 3 minute cooldown, making it easy for you to Distance Shrink away. There are tons of ways to beat sins, just gotta wait for that one mistake that they make, or you expel. Another easy way is just triple spark, expel at the same time and blast away.

    You are ****ing ****. Go PvE more.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    If you encounter someone actually using a sin in PK just laugh at the for using a pathetic class and find something else to do. Any decent PKers on my server know to use a real class in PK and leave pathetic fish to farming nirv.
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  • Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary Posts: 3,034 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If you encounter someone actually using a sin in PK just laugh at the for using a pathetic class and find something else to do. Any decent PKers on my server know to use a real class in PK and leave pathetic fish to farming nirv.

    Wow, real pker`s r9 +12? Takes massive balls to pk on any class which is decked out to the max or close to it, if it wasn`t for assassins, archers would dominate the pk field!
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14516063001&dateline=1364756666[/SIGPIC] Ty Silvy :)
  • Arenaceous - Lost City
    Arenaceous - Lost City Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    @Asterelle: Well then I might as well quit pvp. It comes close to a miracle not getting jumped by a sin in open pk. Especially our kos faction is filled with 105 full r9 sage sins, it's not even funny. A lot of the pk is just standing there and waiting for those sins to unstealth, aoe, faith, immune pot, restealth. It's really pathetic, if you stopped the time between the attacks it would be exactly the cooldown of pk pots, lol.

    @Angel_Spawn: Yea, full R9 archers are sick, especially since they purge so frequently. But it's not even comparable to R9 sins lol. I wouldn't even say archers dominate at maxed out gear. Or at least not by much.
    "Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."

    "Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."

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  • Breathe - Lost City
    Breathe - Lost City Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Condensed thorn is **** damage, especially if you have ANY decent gear on you what so ever. The only stun that they could get off with expel on would be Shadow Teleport, since headhunt, tackling slash, and deep sting are all physical attacks, which has a 3 minute cooldown, making it easy for you to Distance Shrink away. There are tons of ways to beat sins, just gotta wait for that one mistake that they make, or you expel. Another easy way is just triple spark, expel at the same time and blast away.

    Just...stop talking. Please.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    At max gear R9+12 archer loses to R9+12 barb. R9+12 wizard can still hit you for 20k unsparked with spark genie skill. I'm not even going to mention R9+12 psy, another fish class. R9+12 BM is at a disadvantage but the fight will last a while and can definitely go either way.

    A smart sin in tt99/nirvana/R8 can still beat all of those easily (though they need to use will surge for the psy).
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  • Divine_Death - Harshlands
    Divine_Death - Harshlands Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Wow, real pker`s r9 +12? Takes massive balls to pk on any class which is decked out to the max or close to it, if it wasn`t for assassins, archers would dominate the pk field!

    You are ****ing ****. Go PvE more.
  • CritCat - Archosaur
    CritCat - Archosaur Posts: 608 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    A smart sin in tt99/nirvana/R8 can still beat all of those easily (though they need to use will surge for the psy).

    There is no way in hell a R8/TT99 assassin can kill a Rank 9+12 anything other than maybe a cleric.

    That's just for armor and weapon +12, but if the armor isn't the same refine, it's a different story.

    On topic: I've never had Sage TP, but I can imagine it's quite OP. 66%= Roughly 2/3 hits.
    and if an assassin can TANK your hits, it's pretty much game over.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Divine_Death - Harshlands
    Divine_Death - Harshlands Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »
    There is no way in hell a R8/TT99 assassin can kill a Rank 9+12 anything other than maybe a cleric.

    That's just for armor and weapon +12, but if the armor isn't the same refine, it's a different story.

    On topic: I've never had Sage TP, but I can imagine it's quite OP. 66%= Roughly 2/3 hits.
    and if an assassin can TANK your hits, it's pretty much game over.

    You missed the "Nirvana" part. +12 G15 drops my full +10 R9 with 30k phy def in seconds if I don't genie.
  • CritCat - Archosaur
    CritCat - Archosaur Posts: 608 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    Divine_Death - Harshlands wrote: »
    +12 G15
    Divine_Death - Harshlands wrote: »
    +12

    This is what I was talking about. I left out nirvana because those with enough to afford nirvana obviously can afford refines behind it. More than likely, they also have APS backing up the refines.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Divine_Death - Harshlands
    Divine_Death - Harshlands Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    CritCat - Archosaur wrote: »
    This is what I was talking about. I left out nirvana because those with enough to afford nirvana obviously can afford refines behind it. More than likely, they also have APS backing up the refines.

    So then your post has nothing to do with the post you replied to.
  • Massad - Harshlands
    Massad - Harshlands Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ill give you a tip on fighting sins that have tidal protection.

    Step 1: Buy rep
    Step 2:Get r9 Weapon
    Step 3:Refine
    Step 4:1 hit them

    Depending on the build even a r8 ashura sin can have 14k hp unbuffed
    4 easy steps to kill a sin with tidal protection. Hope this step by step guide helped you. =D
    XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Condensed thorn is **** damage, especially if you have ANY decent gear on you what so ever. The only stun that they could get off with expel on would be Shadow Teleport, since headhunt, tackling slash, and deep sting are all physical attacks, which has a 3 minute cooldown, making it easy for you to Distance Shrink away. There are tons of ways to beat sins, just gotta wait for that one mistake that they make, or you expel. Another easy way is just triple spark, expel at the same time and blast away.


    I'm a sage and this is what I see

    Sage Deaden

    Avoid one attack that would kill you within the next two minutes.
    Recovers 20% HP upon avoiding death.

    Duration is increased by 30

    That makes 150 seconds of deaden out of the 180 cooldown. If I get into a oh **** moment where deaden is gone or used up I just click

    Sage Shadow Escape
    Forces you into Stealth. Dispels all negative statuses.
    Increases your Stealth Level by 11.
    Enemies with an Awareness Level lower than your Stealth Level can't see you.
    Costs 10 Mana per second.

    A successful cast will increase one Spark.

    Dispels all negative statuses.



    Back away from target in case of aoes and wait for next fight.


    Rather than copy pasting all the descriptions here...

    http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillpwi

    go to assasin and click sage at the bottom
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  • Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary Posts: 3,034 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    Divine_Death - Harshlands wrote: »
    You are ****ing ****. Go PvE more.

    Guess you are one of the elitist snobs, have fun tab killing b:bye
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14516063001&dateline=1364756666[/SIGPIC] Ty Silvy :)
  • FiveAps - Dreamweaver
    FiveAps - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »
    ...and not a good one.

    Ik it's a pointless rant, ik there are tons of threads like this, I know everyone knows it already - But it's just annoying.

    This skill is the single most broken skill in the entire game, and it's not easy competition with all the other sin skills. I just had the pleasure of fighting one of the few R9 sage sins that not only have awesome gear but are also smart enough to - let's say - go after the wizzy first, target someone else while you expel and then jump back to you immediately when it's gone. Stuff like that.

    But they could never wipe a squad of people more or less by himself if he didn't naturally resist 2 out of 3 debuffs. Seriously, you get paralyzed and stunned, badge free, shrink away, he teles after you. You seal. Resist. Instant Sleep. Resist. Squad mate stuns. resist. Zerk crit for 15k through 10k+ pdef and 40+ def lvl. Yea, right.

    And it's not just anti stun. Undine, genie spark, even purge - who thinks of a skill like that? It's practically godmode... People use a lot of ressources (casting time, genie, chi) to get a disable landed only for it to be resisted by a freaking passive skill.

    /EndRant

    ...Why am I playing this game again?


    man, why do you even bother? really...
    PK in this game died as soon as fish came out. That's when I stopped doing it. It just doesn't make any sense trying to find an idiot sin to kill. Anything beyond 70 IQ will roll you over regardless of what class you are or what gear you have. Yeah, those happy to make scenarios on how they kill sins will jump up and down here and give me a 10 second scenario where they can kill the sin. I say just this: I use Shadow escape and come back when your pots are in cooldown and your genie half energy. If that doesn't work, I'll try again, because I chose how to fight not you. So as long as you're not in SZ you will die.
    Really, why do people even bother with sins in PK? It's like running around trying to find a Down Syndrome kid that you can beat up and feel good about yourself, 'cause everyone else will kick your ***.
    Just quit already, stop giving the idiots at PWI/PWE any more satisfaction of having a +1 to the number of active ppl ingame.
    I remember you on Dreamweaver being a smart guy (Ursa here) , really, why do you even bother with this?
    FiveAps - PvE char made from half as.s unbound gear sold by a wizard, doing 18x the damage and 10x the money the wizard was ever capable of. b:laugh . Only in PWI.
  • Raapy - Raging Tide
    Raapy - Raging Tide Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    I think one thing they should change about sins is sparking in stealth, ALL sparks not only sage/demon spark.
    [SIGPIC]Level 104 Sage Assassin[/SIGPIC]
  • FiveAps - Dreamweaver
    FiveAps - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    Raapy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I think one thing they should change about sins is sparking in stealth, ALL sparks not only sage/demon spark.

    that's such a narrow thinking...
    is that the only issue with fishes?
    wow...
    players these days...
    FiveAps - PvE char made from half as.s unbound gear sold by a wizard, doing 18x the damage and 10x the money the wizard was ever capable of. b:laugh . Only in PWI.
  • Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary Posts: 3,034 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    FiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    that's such a narrow thinking...
    is that the only issue with fishes?
    wow...
    players these days...

    The most annoying thing is stealth a..ka. the most pu ssy skill u can ever imagine, then you can start working towards a more or less less OP solution.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14516063001&dateline=1364756666[/SIGPIC] Ty Silvy :)
  • Arenaceous - Lost City
    Arenaceous - Lost City Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    @Ursa: I am wondering the same. But I just like playing my class, especially in TW and group pvp. And one on ones not against sins are still a lot of fun, the class doesn't matter. I think it's habbit and nostalgia that keeps me playing and the hope that the new skills will improve the situation a little. PvPing on my sin feels like stealing candy from a kid - it's stupid and far too easy.
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    "Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."

    - Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
  • Stepomax - Sanctuary
    Stepomax - Sanctuary Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    tbh i stopped playin my sin cuz i felt cheap n nasty and i had no enjoyment pvping whatsoever on it. its not a case that i got rolled constantly or w/e. guess im just ole school vit axe bm lol love the challengeb:laugh
    Take a look to the sky just before you die!! Its the last time you will!!b:angry
  • Seascraper - Sanctuary
    Seascraper - Sanctuary Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    i might have a sin but i dont have TP...
    anyway even though it might be op look at veno's purge... area of effect? u know whats taking every person around buff effects? and its considered a skill not a debuf so u should use that against a sin in tp i guess? theres always ways of avoiding enemies skills unless theyre ultimate skills...
  • Raapy - Raging Tide
    Raapy - Raging Tide Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    Please, read better...i said one not only
    Too many ppl complain about stealth, but how many really thing how would be a LA close ranged class in PK? LA's doesnt have any good defense, and being close ranged, doesnt give u a distance vantage like Archers have.
    About "infite chi" that might be a problem, but removing the sparking in stealth, the only skills the sin could use with chi are:
    -Maze Steps: BMs have a similiar skill
    -Shadow Tele: if the target is moving, u'll be tele'd to a place she was b4 giving time to react
    -Headhunt,Powerdash,Subsea Strike: Gives u time to react too and Subsea when sage just have half effect a HF (Heaven's Flame) have.

    About Stun Locking, not many sins know about it, and it gives u time to react too (Even being stunned u can use genie/apoths)
    [SIGPIC]Level 104 Sage Assassin[/SIGPIC]
  • SoulRequiem - Sanctuary
    SoulRequiem - Sanctuary Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    Seascraper - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i might have a sin but i dont have TP...
    anyway even though it might be op look at veno's purge... area of effect? u know whats taking every person around buff effects? and its considered a skill not a debuf so u should use that against a sin in tp i guess? theres always ways of avoiding enemies skills unless theyre ultimate skills...

    TP can also prevent being purged ijs
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  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    Raapy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I think one thing they should change about sins is sparking in stealth, ALL sparks not only sage/demon spark.

    pretty common on this server is demon/sage spark in safe zone, go invisible, try oneshot a caster with zerk crit headhunt, force stealth, go to safe zone
    call them noobs or whatever in broken english
    wait for hours till the next target comes around
    repeat
    charge zhen and pop packs for the lulz
    repeat
    i like potato
  • Raapy - Raging Tide
    Raapy - Raging Tide Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    pretty common on this server is demon/sage spark in safe zone, go invisible, try oneshot a caster with zerk crit headhunt, force stealth, go to safe zone
    call them noobs or whatever in broken english
    wait for hours till the next target comes around
    repeat
    charge zhen and pop packs for the lulz
    repeat
    Oh, yeah i saw similiar things here,
    Solution: remove spark effects if u stealth
    [SIGPIC]Level 104 Sage Assassin[/SIGPIC]
  • FiveAps - Dreamweaver
    FiveAps - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    Raapy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Oh, yeah i saw similiar things here,
    Solution: remove spark effects if u stealth

    nothing is that simple, and again, that doesn't fix the rest of the sins issues. This "spark while stealth" and "spark then stealth" discussions are like trying to catch fish by spitting in the watter: useless and stupid, because they aren't the cause or the way to deal with the whole sin problem. Those are just the easy tools available to every common idiot to boost his e-peen in PK and make him feel the money he sent to PWI are well worth it. Any kind of semi decent sin with half a brain doesn't need to do that to roll over anything else anyway.
    FiveAps - PvE char made from half as.s unbound gear sold by a wizard, doing 18x the damage and 10x the money the wizard was ever capable of. b:laugh . Only in PWI.
  • Raapy - Raging Tide
    Raapy - Raging Tide Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    So whats the "whole sin problem"?
    [SIGPIC]Level 104 Sage Assassin[/SIGPIC]
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    FiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    nothing is that simple, and again, that doesn't fix the rest of the sins issues. This "spark while stealth" and "spark then stealth" discussions are like trying to catch fish by spitting in the watter: useless and stupid, because they aren't the cause or the way to deal with the whole sin problem. Those are just the easy tools available to every common idiot to boost his e-peen in PK and make him feel the money he sent to PWI are well worth it. Any kind of semi decent sin with half a brain doesn't need to do that to roll over anything else anyway.

    Then again limiting stealth to is only a PvP oriented solution. Well, you might get away with not changing the PvE functionality and changing it in PvP to, for example, only make the sin transparent and not appear on the T menu, but still being targetable on-screen.

    It's rather interesting to observe the PvP community in PWI and compare it to others. We have pots, charms and genie skills, all of which are regarded as just fine. On the other hand, using "underhanded" tactics which amount to using native skills is an advantageous way is frowned upon.

    In comparison, take Diablo II: Lord of Destruction, for example. There, you're only "allowed" to use mana potions in PvP, using health potions or rejuvenation potions is frowned upon. Similarly, certain items are actually frowned upon because they give an effect that is similar to using health potions. Oh, and "kiting", in the extreme, is also frowned upon. And using too much damage reduction equipment to make yourself nearly or completely immune to elemental damage. There is a few classes/builds which are regarded as the resident "easymode", just because they happen to get the best damage in the game, the best blocking in the game, easy access to high defense, decent HP and easy access to maximum resistances.

    As far as I'm concerned, PvP on a sin is kinda silly. If I were into PvP, I'd certainly refrain from using stealth, possibly even telestun.
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  • Arenaceous - Lost City
    Arenaceous - Lost City Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    @Seascraper: You know what's even more op than veno purge? A purge bow! And yea as SoulRequiem said, TP can prevent the purge effect. And even if the purge effect hits, the sin buffs don't get purged. All you can purge off a selfbuffed sin is BP.. Yay!

    @Raapy: Don't give me that LA melee ****. Sins got extremely efficient survival skills and two teleports. I got a 100 dex anti stun genie with 6 sec fortify, 90% badge and 11 sec expel and it's very hard to impossible to kite a skilled sin even without the sin using stealth. And if there is one thing I'm not bad at it's kiting. I can kite most BMs and Barbs forever. (Landing the killing blow is another thing, I'm pretty defensive, not too good at attack combos >_<)
    "Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."

    "Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."

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