NV G13 or R8 daggers?

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Use the coin you'll be saving not going G13 and get recasted r8 daggers. They're around the same-ish price, and I'm pretty sure they are lovely, both in look and damage/adds.

FiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As sage sin I guess G13 is the only viable option, otherwise you're way to gimped.

R8 is the cheap variant. Comes with rank, throw some refines on it, d.ick around.
G13 is the farmer's tool. 1/2 sockets doesn't matter much when you can Power Dash and still be permasparked. DPS difference is minimal even at 1 socket, but where R8 forces you with TT99 ornaments, G13 leaves the door open to a Cube Neck + Warsong/Map4 belt. That's about what, ~1k Hp (360 from stats only)? with mild (6-7) refines and much better defenses. Phys you can increase from rings refines, but mag? 200 on cube neck + 200? on map4 belt - 400 mag def unbuffed right there. Plus 1 attk 1 def lvl.

yeah, pure math wise R8 +10 is on par or slightly better than G13+10 1 socket.
Add the above advantages in an let's see where R8 stands after that. Plus, you can recast that G13 once you're set with cash to a kickarse endgame dagger.

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, it is not. My sage sin uses my demon sin's G15 (20AL -int) and I do just fine on it. That with 2 +10 lunar rings from my demon sins and +5 everything else I can easily pull full big room and crush FC just as easily as demon sin. It is a bit slower but..... so. Once I get all +7 gear and DoTs in my sage sin (demon is all vit stone) I'll probably be roughly close to the damage it does with the same daggers. The other catch is I also ran a solo instance and another sage sin friend ran one at same time (so we do 2 big rooms same time) and he's even lower APS. He's 22 DoT and R9 Dags. He does it way faster then me and I have 3.33 4.0 WS. APS is not everything ffs and it's what drives me absolutely insane on these forums.

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Let's create a victim association for the aps-discrimination ! b:laugh

Yeah, totally agree with you there. Unfortunately, ingame it's just as bad judging on WC of Sanctuary. Ppl who consider G13 daggers as the best daggers for sage or even mention fists as sage sin weapon, just make me feel sorry for their narrow-mindedness.

You know, I even got accused of lying a few times when I said I could solo this or that boss, simply cause I'm not 5 aps b:chuckle

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Eh, I think these forums have had so many aps idiots who only seem to understand "aps = good, derrr" that the regulars have taken a very opposing view and are always shouting back at them "aps isn't everything". Personally, I see people comment more on how aps isn't everything than I see people actually toting the glory of aps. I think there is also a lot of sage sin pride, or pride for being different in these forums, as well as people who want others to look at multiple facets of gameplay and not just dps.

But for 99% of sins, they only care about 1 aspect of sins, and thats their dps. Aps is a direct correlation to dps. A 20% increase in aps is a 20% increase in dps and paint heals. For most the sin population that honestly is all they need to know and therefore all they care about.

For them dps is a footrace and aps in literally a burst of speed towards the finish line, so why are we talking about dph and aoe and zerk strikes in pvp? Who cares about unsparked damage? Or chi gain or conservation?


So yes, I very much agree aps isn't everything but for most people its almost all they need to know. I mentioned G13 daggers being one of the few reasonable endgame options for sage, its because there isn't a huge dps increase in flatout permasparking between 2.86 R9+10 and 4.0 G13+10. Assuming both are permasparked R9 only does 14% more dps. But after 3 sparks the R9 has skill cooldowns and can't get back to 3 sparks and has to dd unsparked and the G13s catch up in damage. Consider survivability of spending 6 seconds unsparked following a weapon that uses GoF to get its dps and G13 is arguably equal at offense and better at defense when spark spamming. 400 mil less, too. Yes, the picture completely changes when talking about pvp, using skills, or aoeing. But for 99% of people, all that matters is the footrace.

I also mentioned claws being a possible option for sage sins as a hold-me-over until they get decent 100+ daggers. R8 at 2.86 or Deicides at 5.0 for sages and the deicides have comparable damage when triple sparked with only 146 str. Same situations as above, the R8 sage sin has a hard time keeping permasparked but the Deicides sage sin would get a steady stream of chi and plenty extra to switch and use skills and still remain permasparked with spark damage reduction. Its definitely not endgame but I've seen sins ripped apart for suggesting this and called "aps idiots."

In anything but spark spam both those arguments fail and I concede. But since sins can stealth to bosses and do just that, and alot of people don't pk or have dph daggers for aoe situations, for many people the game comes down to just that. Spark spam and aps. Nothing wrong with picking this part of the game to focus on, even though its one sided.

__Serpent__ - Lost City wrote: »

Just gonna jump in this thread as well. I merch my gear so G15 or R8 reforged is outta the question anytime soon. I'm stuck between R8 and G13. Which one is better? And when I say better, I don't mean for farming purposes. I simply ONLY wanna know what's better for PK. 4aps sage vs 5aps Nirv. Also I'll probably get my wep to +8 at most for now til another +10 sale.b:laugh

FiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

traz, we're talking about a "startup" build, not your +12 +20attk lvl -0.5 G15 dagger with +10 rings and the other good **** you ported from your demon sin. Try to get a grasp on that concept for a bit.