Packs

if lets say you're in charge and you decide to follow through with the whole making pack items non-tradeable (or even non-stashable?), what could you possibly do to remedy the potential gold market collapse, the skyrocketing price range of tokens which also leads to similar reaction for pots, hypers etc?

Put packs in the cash shop as a perpetual sale? even with +10 orbs and rank 9? I think it only goes downhill from here...

_Nerox_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

disagree, making pack and its content bound would bring back the old economy.(Like before packs)
Some ppl might leave yea, but everyday there would be new players joiningb:pleased

maybe more like the exodus when moses and his people left Egypt lol

TheUnderLord - Lost City wrote: »

With the way the game has progressed, coin has never been easier to make than before. Farming NV, grinds, hh runs, 2x drops, have all contributed to the inflationary levels, it's just the way it is for now.

Coin is only "easy" to make because there is so much of it, when the demand is high for things like nirvana, then of course people will pay lots for the thing they want, simply because there is so much floating around, gold will keep rising simply because there is no real coin sink, tell me, what NPC do you buy items from that potentially dumps millions out the game?

TheUnderLord - Lost City wrote: »

The vast majority of players are geared with either Rank 8 or Nirv, they have the means to farm and sell an abundance of goods on the market at decent value.
Removing 10 mil bank notes also doesn't remove the fact that the total amount of TW coin rewards brings in 2.3billion (according to frankie) every month. That's quite a substantial addition to the economy.

As I said above, farming mats does not effect the econamy, because it's not direct gold in your pocket once you pick it up, removing the 10mill bank notes that loads of people are getting per day, in bulks will help a lot, you can't forget also that TW coin is split generally between 80+ per land (depending on situation and how the guild does it), really its only if the guild has an army of terratorys, then they are getting big bulks of money, if its just like 5-10 lands split between 80-100 people for e.g, then it isn't even that bad when you add it up per week.

TheUnderLord - Lost City wrote: »

The Gold prices has to be the way they are due to the average value that's inherent in 1 pack (approximately 400-430k), removing packs will only collapse the gold market alongside the token market that goes with it. After that, no one will want to purchase zhen to get gold to sell to get the things they want to buy. By that point you remove the incentive for people to play this game to make coins and get better gears.

Since when would a lower gold price = people wouldn't want to play the game and get better gears? if anything it's the opposite, now I can understand what you mean with the possibility of less people buying zen, but think of it this way, the game was doing totally fine before there was even packs, the herc/nix things in the CS rarely and rank items being in the CS, but lets say the pack items were bound, there would still be less people purchasing packs to try get the better items, simply because they can't resell them and if they get the same item they already have...well that's going to be a kick in the teeth.

TheUnderLord - Lost City wrote: »

Plus, with the farmers and others who have accumulated a substantial amount of coins while gold may turn into 500k each do what? Gold price will definitely shoot up as people compete for the cheapest gold in a gold shortage since packs would be removed.

Very true and I can see how that would actually be an issue, if PWI actually had an actual coin sink for people to dump money into then the problem woulden't exist, my idea of having a bunch of the pack items in an NPC would do a bit of head work to an extent, I suppose if anything, it would take perhaps a year or something to make the gold price go down.

TheUnderLord - Lost City wrote: »

Just as essential as those semi-important items like pots & hypers, pack drives are important to maintaining the economy the way it is or it will collapse, and the company will definitely go under because NOTHING has been as lucrative as packs (perhaps you can also include rank 9 sales).

I don't think it would collapse, it would simply make it go down to a reasonable amount, just not to reasonable simply because of R8/R9 being purchasable through gold so the econamy would still be their, I highly doubt it would go any lower than 600-700k, but that's just my thought.

TheUnderLord - Lost City wrote: »

re-read the OP's first post, he was talking specifically about the potential effects of making all items from packs NON-TRADEABLE. NOT REMOVING PACKS ENTIRELY. So yea, perhaps it is you who's been making pointless comments.

It wasn't a pointless comment at all, it was actually an "idea" above all, I've responded to you in small quotes for each bit, I actually see your point so I won't bother mentioning it any more, I've said my ideas and what I think may happen, good or bad as they may be, I respect your opinion so I'll leave it there, I just don't see why you couldn't of simply gave me your opinion on what you think would happen with the gold price in the first place instead of just giving me a rage post with no explanation behind it.

You people seem to either be farmers...or gold buyers (ones' who quoted me, besides Sagek)...


I don't think you get it. PWI is staying online mainly due to all the people who charge gold and buy items. If pack items became bound (there-by making them untradeable, which means that people wouldn't buy them anymore because of no resell value), the majority (if not all) of PWE's profit from PWI would disappear.


If you think it'll be a "small" group leaving, you would dead wrong. If I had a take a shot at it, more than half of each server (maybe 3/4th's...not too sure on the population area of each one) would disappear.

Sagek - Sanctuary wrote: »

I still have to disagree with you on this. Even tho I do agree packs are a source of revenue it is in no way their bread and butter. they were around before packs and they would be around after they made a change like this. You're actting like PWE's only source of income is from PWI. You have to understand they have Multiple games, Advertisement space, sales on other games, etc. They would be just fine without the packs and if they made them untradable people would still buy the packs. no one is suggesting the packs being removed.. Would they lose revenue? yes they would i can agree with you there, but there is no way making a change like that would destroy PWI. I'm sorry man but their business is not based on the sell of Packs like any other business they would find another source of revenue to replace what the packs were providing..

You said in another thead you have been here for 3 years. Then you know of the original gold price being in the 100-150k range. This was because not many people where buying gold, and the one's that were didn't use it in the gold trade mainly but instead on the very few items that they could use in the boutique (not very much of a selection that is USEFUL), now you also know of when they first introduced packs (Anniversery packs, or Anni packs for short) the gold price rocketed from 100-150k to 300-500k (based on server, this is the range I know of). This just proves that people love to gamble, yes, but they also know they can buy and resell the items from the packs, plus the packs themselves and make their money back.


Now make those packs bound, and you can kiss gold prices currently good bye, say hello to '09 gold prices. Which means that PWE will kiss a large majority of their profit good bye. As people who buy gold are loving the current prices and I highly doubt they would bother to keep charging if gold dropped back to 100-150k per. (Though the buyers would love it as now it's affordable...but really said that only makes the farmers happy, not the one's who charge)

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why do you think gold would suddenly drop? Are all other sales also done with with? No. Rep, dorbs and other sales that drive markets would still flourish unchanged.

And back in '09...yes I was here...it also took you forever to farm that coin for that gold. 1.5mil for 1 gold then would have been utterly ridiculous. The farming is now different with Nirvana, for one. I don't think gold would be as drastically affected as you think. I think it would drop some, yes, but not to the point you seem to believe.

You seem to miss the point, the major revenue for PWE that comes from PWI is from packs, packs, packs. I mean literally why do you think everybody QQ's about them?


Make packs unusable, you drive the price of everything up into astronomical number for prices because they become "Rare", "Ultra rare", and "Impossible".


So I mean unless you are wantin to pay 2 bil for a JoSD instead of 100-200 mil...then be my guest and make packs a BoP item.

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Source?



lol. Right.

It was the same thread that you bookmarked for a "I told you so" reply :P @ my quote

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=15721981&postcount=7

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

I meant the thread Persus said I stated that I bookmarked something.

Either that or I'm still confused.

Never mind, because it's really not relevant to anything...

It's still better than what we would talk about instead...


What if the packs needed a golden hammer to open? herp topic

Un-tradeable cash-shop items is a pretty common strategy in the MMORPG world, so the easiest way to answer the question would be to look at the competition.

With that being said, I'd then argue that it would simply kill the game. I base this belief on the fact that the vast majority of F2P MMORPGs that have followed the, "If you want access to the best stuff, you have no choice but to pay," have died grizzly deaths.

PWI's strength is in its open economy. Almost everything can be bought for either real-life money or in-game money, which benefits all types of players.

Take away PWI's biggest strength and impose a hard division between those who pay and those who don't, and the game really has nothing that sets it apart from countless other failed F2P MMORPGs.

TheUnderLord - Lost City wrote: »

Although I don't have merchanting experience in other F2P MMORPGs as PWI is my first one ever and doing quite successfully (thanks to warren here if I may add), I believe what Warren is saying makes perfect sense because if you think about it, this game is quite multi-faceted in terms of appealing to both player bases - F2P, and P2P. No to mention that with enough time invested and hard-work, F2P players will and do have access to high-end gears that otherwise be inaccessible if it was a closed and exclusive cash shop.

The game can only do that through an open economy that grants access to both parties, allowing a relatively fluid market, although the market is very much influenced by the decision makers of PWI (or PWE perhaps) who announce the sales. That is why packs and pack item must not be bound to the user.

Merchants will definitely lose a major part of their livelihood in their game as packs are one of the staples they sell. Myself included.

How the in the world does PWI appeal to P2P players? P2P players pay $15-$20 a month for a consistently good game free of any external imbalance. P2P here is spend thousands of dollars for the best gear for pvp and maybe in a month your gear is obsolete. Even if people don't care for pvp, the pve in this game is a complete joke compared to any P2P game released in the past two years. Even korean grindfests have more to offer than slog through x instance y times.

Most P2P players I know still complain about the $15 cost of their service.

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

How the in the world does PWI appeal to P2P players? P2P players pay $15-$20 a month for a consistently good game free of any external imbalance. P2P here is spend thousands of dollars for the best gear for pvp and maybe in a month your gear is obsolete. Even if people don't care for pvp, the pve in this game is a complete joke compared to any P2P game released in the past two years. Even korean grindfests have more to offer than slog through x instance y times.

Most P2P players I know still complain about the $15 cost of their service.

If pwi was unappealing in the first place, I doubt those players would even consider playing thousands of $ to get the best gears.The thousands spent pretty much covers the equivalent of that long term membership total for that consistently good game. There's still a great deal of competition amongst the PvPers, TWs, and the 9 Trials are still relatively challenging.

and why would those P2P players complain about $15 going towards a consistently good game anyways?

And your claim that best gears are maybe obsolete in a month is exaggerated, rank 9 is obsolete since it was introduced long ago? Is decently refined rank 8 obsolete as well even though it was introduced I believe a year ago? What about certain nirvana pieces like the helm and pants? Pangu and Love Up and Down? They're not exactly obsolete.

Although your point about pve being a joke is very much true, that I agree.

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

This isn't necessarily true. P2P games have to deal with 3rd party groups who farm in game currency to "illegally" sell to the players. Do you think P2P players don't take advantage of this? Of course they do, and so of course players with more disposable income will have more than players without.

Granted, there are people who will abide by the rules and not purchase the currency via a third party site. But if the market wasn't there, the industry couldn't exist very well, could it?

The difference is in P2P games coins aren't as important. Getting coins on a P2P game is easy and is a by-product of being okay at the game. Almost all gear in these games are bind on pickup in the instance or earned though pvp. Obviously spending money at a gold farmer will give you an edge financially but you still need to pve or pvp for your gear. Another thing to note is that due to the subscription model the devs are forced to act against RMT, bots and what not because unlike PWI they still need to provide after you spent your money since it's only a small amount.

If you did the same on PWI and just cash shopped 15$ a month to stay even with the cost of a P2P game you could afford maybe a single shard for your armor each month.

TheUnderLord - Lost City wrote: »

If pwi was unappealing in the first place, I doubt those players would even consider playing thousands of $ to get the best gears.

They don't. PW is unappealing to most people. F2P only needs to appeal to a small subset of people because they spend such an anomalous amount of money for a game it covers about the same as a large number of players chipping in a little bit.

The thousands spent pretty much covers the equivalent of that long term membership total for that consistently good game. There's still a great deal of competition amongst the PvPers, TWs, and the 9 Trials are still relatively challenging.

Long term is right. Rank 9 costs what, $1500? That's over 8 years of a membership @ $15/mo. Hope rank10 takes that long.

and why would those P2P players complain about $15 going towards a consistently good game anyways?

Clearly they never played a F2P game like PW.

And your claim that best gears are maybe obsolete in a month is exaggerated, rank 9 is obsolete since it was introduced long ago? Is decently refined rank 8 obsolete as well even though it was introduced I believe a year ago? What about certain nirvana pieces like the helm and pants? Pangu and Love Up and Down? They're not exactly obsolete.

Although your point about pve being a joke is very much true, that I agree.

It's exaggerated. That wasn't my point though, what I'm saying is PW needs to recycle gear for them to make money. Either adding new gear which has to be better to be worth buying or making previously expensive stuff cheaper. This usually means waiting is almost always better when it comes to charging money since either your gear gets insta-obsolete (pretty much nirvana weapons) or 10x cheaper in the future. I'll be impressed if PW never releases better gear than rank9 and stays afloat.