Its getting Out of Hand

truekossy wrote: »

Were you not here during the Duke Rose fiasco when gold rose to the 1mil cap on all servers? b:sweat

lol, it was 1 mil? pretty sure it was 10mil per gold at that time. Maybe not, idk b:cry it was a long time ago. When they put the stupid hammer and box in the game, all gloves came off.

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Reducing prices of high price items. Dragon Orbs for example. If PWI put +12 orbs in for $10, you're saying the value of gold wouldn't change? If it does change, who is directly responsible, the consumer?

As I have said multiple times it is well within the rights of the company to set the minimum value of various items. It is however the players who determine the maximum value of said item.

Take Mirage Celestones for example. They will always be at least worth 10,000 coins due to the fact that they can always be sold to an NPC for 10k coins. However it is players who determine what the Mirage Celestones are actually worth, despite what Perfect World Entertainment may or may not do to increase or decrease the value of said items.

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

It is PWE who is responsible for managing their game economy. It would be irresponsible of them NOT to. High gold prices benefits PWE. It influences people to charge money instead of farming or merchanting.

Since when is the company that makes the game responsible for managing what the players do with the in game currency? I have played many different MMORPG's over the years and not once have I seen the company intervene and say "NO, you cannot sell this item for 1,000,000,000 of the in game currency" or what have you. It just isn't done.

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

If you don't think PWE has any control over the economy, you're sadly mistaken. I'm sure there is a whole department in China that specifically monitors it. It's essential to the life of the game.

While they may have a department dedicated to monitoring it for the purpose of preventing fraud or some such, I doubt that said department is specifically charged with influencing the in game economy on the level that you are determined to believe that it is capable of.

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Edit: And imagine this... if the US Government decided to start selling an unlimited amount of 3 bedroom houses for $50,000 and an unlimited amount of brand new cars for $1000, what do you think that would do to the economy? Who ultimately would be responsible for killing the vehicle and housing markets, the consumer or the government? By your remarks, it would all be the consumer's fault.

Huh? How is this even a comparison?

There's some smart comments, and i can't believe some people can be so stupid to think that it's mostly the players fault for the high gold price.

I'll give a very simple example of what PWI does sorta with packs and rep sales etc.

Mirages can be sold to npc's for 10k, So let's say one day you can buy a pack with 500 mirages in the auction house for 2 gold. What's that gonna do with the gold price?
Doh, it will go up to 2.5m of course. So what happens if you suddenly lower the price of that same mirage pack to 1 gold... nuuu gold price goes up to 5m omgosh how is that possible b:shocked

Hope it's a good example that can be well understood. b:surrender

KrittyCat wrote: »

Anyway, this topic has been discussed over and over again, with no conclusion made other than the fact that players control the economy, and choose to sell gold at high prices to make money for themselves.

Actually, the math is fairly simple. I can only conclude that people are either delusional, moronic, or arbitrarily choose to ignore what is plainly before their very eyes. Sales drive gold price. Period.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Because having watched the market in times current, and what the PLAYERS do, they tend to jack up prices a lot...

And why do you think that is? They are responding to the value of the commodity.

gyroki wrote: »

6th: merchants keep prices up/ control some parts of market

No. It's easy to point the finger at merchants, but they also only react to the prices. They do not control them because there are far too many merchants for that to ever work.

Divine_Death - Harshlands wrote: »

Do you not know how to read or know 3rd grade math? No one sad anything about mirage being higher than 10k. But if you can get 500 mirages for 1 gold in boutique, you can bet your *** that gold will be at 5 mil, assume there isn't a cap, because any gold cheaper than 5 mill will be bought and turned to 500 mirage to NPC for 5 mil, making instant profit. If you put 1000 mirage for sale for 1 gold, gold will be at least 10 mil. Or is it "players' fault" that they bought all the 4 mil gold because you can get 5 mil worth of stuff with gold?

You hit the nail on the head with why packs and the crafting items (and a couple other things) in the boutique are bad for the game. Good show.

and who benefit most of all the classes in this game.

let talk interval ppl we all knew sin benefit the most in what you call f2p market.

if you wish it to be fair make all classes get same benefit in farming that in this case interval players do.

i do not care how you do it but untill i see my vit barb build get to farm and make mone ysame way as sin does i will sell gold and be greedy about it.

why you say cos i am not gona make a fish to make money.i love my barb but there no way i can get even 0.1% of what a interval 5aps fish can even if gear up with same cash as a 5aps fish.

you want gold prices low make so all classes can farm equally and i am sure more ppl will go back on there old toons and enjoy it and gold i am sure would go down somehwat.

i laught every time f2p qq about gold prices when they can farm and earn biljion when my barb have to leach cos of class inbalance nobady talk about.

at least i would spend much less and i would sell for a resonable price but untill the players stop being greedy with there 5min run my class is a buff **** why should i feel sorry for any of you.

VIVA CASHSHOP VIVA ORIGINALITY OF CLASSES.

TolanSky - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As I have said multiple times it is well within the rights of the company to set the minimum value of various items. It is however the players who determine the maximum value of said item.

You're highly confused. Where have I said anything about the maximum value of any particular item? I was using dragon orbs as an example of how PWE pricing a cash shop item can affect the economy, e.g. the value of coin, the value of any item in relation to the money spent for that item prior to such sales. That also includes spending confidence, perceived value and loss on prior investments.

Take Mirage Celestones for example. They will always be at least worth 10,000 coins due to the fact that they can always be sold to an NPC for 10k coins. However it is players who determine what the Mirage Celestones are actually worth, despite what Perfect World Entertainment may or may not do to increase or decrease the value of said items.

Mirage sales being one of the specific items I used to merchant, their prices have also been influenced by PWE changes more than what players are willing to pay. Demand and availability are what determines prices.

edit: I'll even explain one of the ways PWI influenced mirage prices. When the culti-switch was first announced, I bought up every mirage by the elder. I think I had somewhere on the line of 4000 mirages I paid about 17k for and 3-4000 mirages I paid 12-14k for. I sold more than half of them for 30k before other sellers came back. Anytime I found them for less than 15k, I purchased them and then put them back up at about 22k on another cat shop. That sold out so I placed all the mirages I purchased for 17kish and put them back up for 14 or 15k. Then more competition came in, I slowly pushed my underpriced my mirages down to 12k. I probably sold 5k mirages at a 5k loss, but that was after I sold probably 8k mirages for 15k-20k profit. I don't remember how much money I made after mirage prices stabilized because almost nobody changed their culti when the item was actually received, but the perception that so many people would need 100 mirages each drove up the perceived value and perceived demand, and I banked off it and the next orb sale I unloaded the stack of mirages I overpaid for for a slight profit. Too bad I deleted my spreadsheet.

While it's true that I manipulated prices on a number of occasions, PWE adding the culti change, as well as when they removed mirages from TW pay, or any time there was an orb sale did far more for my mirage profits than anything the player base alone could do.

That's just one example of how PWE passively influences the economy, in this instance it's just mirages. Sometimes it's inconsequential, sometimes it done on purpose. There are dozens more examples I'm sure you can find...

This is also a good example how someone can purposely alter the prices with price manipulation. I think I made about 45m in a week of mirage sales with two stalls I barely had to maintain.

Since when is the company that makes the game responsible for managing what the players do with the in game currency? I have played many different MMORPG's over the years and not once have I seen the company intervene and say "NO, you cannot sell this item for 1,000,000,000 of the in game currency" or what have you. It just isn't done.

Ok, my bonehead alert just signaled. Seriously, do I really need to go over the reasons why gold has inflated so much? Chest of coins? Packs? Rank sales, etc?

Don't be stupid. PWE has purposely driven up the value of gold and deflated the value of coin. Purposely, as any fool can plainly see. Well, except you.

While they may have a department dedicated to monitoring it for the purpose of preventing fraud or some such, I doubt that said department is specifically charged with influencing the in game economy on the level that you are determined to believe that it is capable of.

PWE is a multinational corporation with over 4000 employees. While you may not believe that nobody is responsible for influencing the economy, that assumption is naive. Keeping an economy under control is a requirement to maintain profitability. To think they don't care or don't do anything... wow.

Our real economy is controlled by the interest rates at which banks loan money. Small changes to this interest rate can affect our whole economy. I suggest you do some light reading.

Huh? How is this even a comparison?

Swoosh is the sound of your understanding flushing down the toilet.

b:bye

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

You're highly confused. Where have I said anything about the maximum value of any particular item? I was using dragon orbs as an example of how PWE pricing a cash shop item can affect the economy, e.g. the value of coin, the value of any item in relation to the money spent for that item prior to such sales. That also includes spending confidence, perceived value and loss on prior investments.



Mirage sales being one of the specific items I used to merchant, their prices have also been influenced by PWE changes more than what players are willing to pay. Demand and availability are what determines prices.

edit: I'll even explain one of the ways PWI influenced mirage prices. When the culti-switch was first announced, I bought up every mirage by the elder. I think I had somewhere on the line of 4000 mirages I paid about 17k for and 3-4000 mirages I paid 12-14k for. I sold more than half of them for 30k before other sellers came back. Anytime I found them for less than 15k, I purchased them and then put them back up at about 22k on another cat shop. That sold out so I placed all the mirages I purchased for 17kish and put them back up for 14 or 15k. Then more competition came in, I slowly pushed my underpriced my mirages down to 12k. I probably sold 5k mirages at a 5k loss, but that was after I sold probably 8k mirages for 15k-20k profit. I don't remember how much money I made after mirage prices stabilized because almost nobody changed their culti when the item was actually received, but the perception that so many people would need 100 mirages each drove up the perceived value and perceived demand, and I banked off it and the next orb sale I unloaded the stack of mirages I overpaid for for a slight profit. Too bad I deleted my spreadsheet.

While it's true that I manipulated prices on a number of occasions, PWE adding the culti change, as well as when they removed mirages from TW pay, or any time there was an orb sale did far more for my mirage profits than anything the player base alone could do.

That's just one example of how PWE passively influences the economy, in this instance it's just mirages. Sometimes it's inconsequential, sometimes it done on purpose. There are dozens more examples I'm sure you can find...

This is also a good example how someone can purposely alter the prices with price manipulation. I think I made about 45m in a week of mirage sales with two stalls I barely had to maintain.




Ok, my bonehead alert just signaled. Seriously, do I really need to go over the reasons why gold has inflated so much? Chest of coins? Packs? Rank sales, etc?

Don't be stupid. PWE has purposely driven up the value of gold and deflated the value of coin. Purposely, as any fool can plainly see. Well, except you.




PWE is a multinational corporation with over 4000 employees. While you may not believe that nobody is responsible for influencing the economy, that assumption is naive. Keeping an economy under control is a requirement to maintain profitability. To think they don't care or don't do anything... wow.

Our real economy is controlled by the interest rates at which banks loan money. Small changes to this interest rate can affect our whole economy. I suggest you do some light reading.




Swoosh is the sound of your understanding flushing down the toilet.

b:bye

Dude...tl;dr...seriously......

Isn't it all simple market economics? PWI controls the supply side. I mean packs were in the boutique with the 10 million big note long before Gold hit steady 1 mil. It was perma 1 mil after the rank sales, IIRC.

High Prices
High Supply+ High Demand
Low Supply+High Demand

Low Prices
Low Supply+Low Demand
High Supply+Low Demand

Basically if there is something people want to buy a lot, or if it's rare, then the price is going to be high. If a seller has way too much supply, or if there is generally low demand it's going to be cheap. The reason the price is so high is because of high player demand. PWI needs to have sales to make money, it's only natural for it to want to make much money as possible by selling the items people want to buy. Players want to get good gear, it's only natural for them to buy up power obtaining items to get in squad. Both sides are acting rationally, it's just kind of a tragedy of the commons thing going on here.


The only thing I can think of is raise the prices of sale prices to decrease demand for rank gear when the new free to obtain stuff is available.

frankieraye wrote: »

Hey Nub, please send pm me this screen shot you're referring to.

And just to make it clear, our GM's do not buy and sell gold via the auctioneer.

Frankie not trying to sound like a *****. but why should i dig up OLD screen shots on my OLD PC that is not even hooked up to a screen. Just to send you pics of this, on a game i dont care about nor does this game offer me any fun things to do?!?!!

hell i still have a Ticket OPENED for over a year about 1 quest, still no ****ing answer to this 1 question. you guys dont do your job so why should i dig up things to prove myself RIGHT and for u all to not care about it.


p.s. try not to make these new skills that are comming out in CN take 4 months LONGER to get here in the states. it is almost time for amazing new games to come out. u might wanna keep the players u got hooked before they come out rather then trying to bring the players back.

Nubispotze - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Frankie not trying to sound like a *****. but why should i dig up OLD screen shots on my OLD PC that is not even hooked up to a screen. Just to send you pics of this, on a game i dont care about nor does this game offer me any fun things to do?!?!!

hell i still have a Ticket OPENED for over a year about 1 quest, still no ****ing answer to this 1 question. you guys dont do your job so why should i dig up things to prove myself RIGHT and for u all to not care about it.


p.s. try not to make these new skills that are comming out in CN take 4 months LONGER to get here in the states. it is almost time for amazing new games to come out. u might wanna keep the players u got hooked before they come out rather then trying to bring the players back.

Because it's on the person who flings out wild accusations to back them up, basically. So...pics or it didn't happen. trollface.jpg

Here's a factor that you people may have not considered:

Sometimes people simply don't charge gold, no matter the sale. It was Christmas, people got their presents and charged, but now that's over. When people charge and sell gold, gold is easy to buy as well. Remember a few weeks ago, gold was as low as 1.7m with the same pack sales? Now gold is consistently at 1.9m why do you think that is? People are simply not interested in charging and selling gold all the time. Same sale at different times can have very different results.

Spend moar money so PWE can afford to maintain and make more games. Nuff' said. Servers are up. KThxBye. o 3o

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

I logged on an looked and another interesting fact, Annipacks had a percieved value of what, 500-600k-ish average returns, and they're at 22 gold per 100... which would put gold at 2.2m. I'm not saying they're responsible for the gold price, but it's interesting to see how gold has scaled in price compared to packs.





If reading requires effort or time on your part, you should have stayed in school. b:pleased

I'm still in school where the really long stuff we read is actually relevant to the real world and putting in effort/time is actually legit.

INB4 Some biased remarks about my age,