Would you support a new Stealth Detect Buff?

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Pandramada - Sanctuary wrote: »

Another qq sin/stealth thread....yawn

The only time people complain/brainstorm anti-stealth ideas is cause they get one shotted by a sin out of stealth, sadly what they don't realize is, if you can't survive when you can't see them, what makes you think you will survive if you can see them?

You are nut right? Because I didn't read bigger BS for long time. Ups. I'm sorry I didn't realize you are new comer.

Vesemr - Sanctuary · September 2011

Thanks Pandramada, you made my day with your post!!

Now let me go QQ more under my blanket.. Bad bad sins.. i ve got nightmares cause of you.

Now serious.. Think before post anything..

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary · September 2011

Well tbh if you think about it, it's true. If you can't survive one hit from a sin, you shouldn't be pking. You only need to tank one of their hits, then hit expel, then they are dead. It isn't that hard to kill a sin in pvp, yet everyone just QQs about it.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Pandramada - Sanctuary wrote: »

sadly what they don't realize is, if you can't survive when you can't see them, what makes you think you will survive if you can see them?

b:laugh

Sun_Burn - Lost City · September 2011

Pandramada - Sanctuary wrote: »

if you can't survive when you can't see them, what makes you think you will survive if you can see them?

the same way if for example wizards could stealth. *stealths, drops BIDS, everyone dies*

your argument is that if u cant survive my attack (well not *my* attack.. a decently geared wizard) if u cant see me, why would u survive it if u can see me. Simply put, you see it coming, and have a chance to counter it.

Same with sins, if you see them double spark and start to get close to you, you have a chance to kite, domain, pop a pot, etc.

And it's not so much people get 1 shotted half the time, its that by the time that the server reacts to several hits by an aps character, you are already dead by the time the damage pops up on your side of the game. Like when it looks like I get 1shot, but looking at the damage screen I only got hit once for 2k or w/e. You just got hit 3-4 times and server took too long to catch up.

You argument is invalid, try again.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Someone got shot by a hidden sniper... and died...
If the sniper can be seen by that person, the person still 100% can't avoid the bullet ?

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary · September 2011

Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »

the same way if for example wizards could stealth. *stealths, drops BIDS, everyone dies*

your argument is that if u cant survive my attack (well not *my* attack.. a decently geared wizard) if u cant see me, why would u survive it if u can see me. Simply put, you see it coming, and have a chance to counter it.

Same with sins, if you see them double spark and start to get close to you, you have a chance to kite, domain, pop a pot, etc.

And it's not so much people get 1 shotted half the time, its that by the time that the server reacts to several hits by an aps character, you are already dead by the time the damage pops up on your side of the game. Like when it looks like I get 1shot, but looking at the damage screen I only got hit once for 2k or w/e. You just got hit 3-4 times and server took too long to catch up.

You argument is invalid, try again.

What's the difference between a sin killing you in stealth, than ANY class flying in the air, tripling sparking, dropping on your head and 1 shotting you? Don't really think you can prepare for that.

Also PWI made these wonderful things called armor charms, which reduce a certain percentage of damage

Sun_Burn - Lost City · September 2011

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »

What's the difference between a sin killing you in stealth, than ANY class flying in the air, tripling sparking, dropping on your head and 1 shotting you? Don't really think you can prepare for that.

Also PWI made these wonderful things called armor charms, which reduce a certain percentage of damage

For active pvpers, no one really falls for that.. Im not gonna argue about pve vs pvp servers, im talking about noobs that arent paying attention. Very rarely am I not looking all around me at pvp hotspots, when I see someone in the air, i take note, and seal them when the do decide to try that bs. If you get killed because you aren't aware of your surroundings it's your own fault.

Im not gonna say I've never been killed that way, but I will say that when it does happen it is my fault for stopping to chat/ getting lazy to view my surroundings. Yes im mad cuz I got killed in such a noobish way, but I make a note to try to not let it happen again, IT IS PREVENTABLE.

And for armor charms: it only works on the 1st hit, re read my post. you are still dead if you cant see a sin about to hit u for 5 attacks in 1 second. Armor charms are basically useless vs sins unless they actually try to 1 shot u instead of doublespark + auto attack.

SharkAngel - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Regarding the thread title...

No. I'd rather Stealth Mode (as a mechanic) being balanced out...rather than balancing the other classes around stealth.

There have already been many decent ideas of how to nerf it all over the place. Any number and combination of those would probably be a step in the right direction of balancing it.

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary · September 2011

Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »

For active pvpers, no one really falls for that.. Im not gonna argue about pve vs pvp servers, im talking about noobs that arent paying attention. Very rarely am I not looking all around me at pvp hotspots, when I see someone in the air, i take note, and seal them when the do decide to try that bs. If you get killed because you aren't aware of your surroundings it's your own fault.

Im not gonna say I've never been killed that way, but I will say that when it does happen it is my fault for stopping to chat/ getting lazy to view my surroundings. Yes im mad cuz I got killed in such a noobish way, but I make a note to try to not let it happen again, IT IS PREVENTABLE.

And for armor charms: it only works on the 1st hit, re read my post. you are still dead if you cant see a sin about to hit u for 5 attacks in 1 second. Armor charms are basically useless vs sins unless they actually try to 1 shot u instead of doublespark + auto attack.

Being an active pker as you say you are, you would realize a sin can only be 4.0 aps maxed unsparked. To get 5 apsed, they would have to triple spark to hit you that fast, which in turn pops them from stealth. Like i said before, all you have to do is take 1 hit, then expel. It's so easy to avoid sins if you just have the right genie builds.

Sun_Burn - Lost City · September 2011

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »

Being an active pker as you say you are, you would realize a sin can only be 4.0 aps maxed unsparked. To get 5 apsed, they would have to triple spark to hit you that fast, which in turn pops them from stealth. Like i said before, all you have to do is take 1 hit, then expel. It's so easy to avoid sins if you just have the right genie builds.

speaking of genies, look up wind shield. Prrreeeeettttyyy sure it puts them at 5 aps (and remain stealthed) if they wanted.

Yes all you have to do is take the 1st hit. but like I said (idk if you are reading what im saying or don't understand the concept of server lag) You can get hit several times before the damage or the sin shows up on your screen. Meaning you don't have chance to expel if you don't know you are getting hit until it's too late.

I've tested this with a friend, he said he hit me 6 times and I only saw 1 hit on my side for 2.2k as i died. (and i have roughly 200-300 ms ping, not bad by any means)

Either you don't get it or you refuse to admit that your wrong, I'd love someone else to try to explain this in a way you can understand.

Dethprowl - Raging Tide · September 2011

I say either make them visible within 10 meters of another player or slave the stun skills to stealth so that stun skills have a 15second cooldown period after stealth is removed.

Revlax - Archosaur · September 2011

I say, it won't even matter. The game is a mirror copy of china's version and any change that significantly affects a class probably needs to be heard over at china.

Not only that, but even a small change to the system and you'll probably see a bunch of negative feedback about the change in sin's stealth(mainly people who've rerolled as sin which is probably the majority thats doing that nowadays) then it'll go on and on, maybe reverted back then QQ more and QQ more and so on. It's an endless cycle that goes on that never really benefits the community as a whole.

As said before, sins aren't perfect. Neither as any other class. If used right, you can easily be as effective as a sin in pvp and pve (proven by numerous TWs in 3 servers I've played). Sins are just easier to use. I used to remember veno's bramble being too much of an unfair advantage and IT STILL IS (imo).

My suggestion: roll with it or find another game. Plain and simple.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Revlax - Archosaur wrote: »

I say, it won't even matter. The game is a mirror copy of china's version and any change that significantly affects a class probably needs to be heard over at china.

Not only that, but even a small change to the system and you'll probably see a bunch of negative feedback about the change in sin's stealth(mainly people who've rerolled as sin which is probably the majority thats doing that nowadays) then it'll go on and on, maybe reverted back then QQ more and QQ more and so on. It's an endless cycle that goes on that never really benefits the community as a whole.

As said before, sins aren't perfect. Neither as any other class. If used right, you can easily be as effective as a sin in pvp and pve (proven by numerous TWs in 3 servers I've played). Sins are just easier to use. I used to remember veno's bramble being too much of an unfair advantage and IT STILL IS (imo).

My suggestion: roll with it or find another game. Plain and simple.

And the venos bramble doesn't work in PK only in TW. Which is ridiculous, because Sin invisibility works everywhere. So bramble should works also everywhere. It's a buff like other.

Ikarium - Dreamweaver · September 2011

The don't even need to make a new buff. I like the idea of archers doing it though.
So whynot just modify Wings of Protection? ;D

Adds a buff that boosts detection level, dependant on level of skill. Sage could extend it beyond assassins max stealth, while demon matches sins max, but longer duration.

Bladed_Tony - Raging Tide · September 2011

Most sins that know their skills know how to get around expel anyways..
they use condensed thorn.. stun u again (with their skill or Occult ice)
and if they cant they will try to do the same thing again..

Expel becomes a useless skill against sins.. ijs

KushClouds - Lothranis · September 2011

Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'd simply prefer the method of making stealth not last for ever till there MP runs dry, like, make the non combat mode stealth last 30 seconds with a 45 second cool down and the battle mode stealth last 15 seconds with a 2-5 minute cool down.

This way, sins can no longer stealth for ever and jump out when ever they feel like it, instead they have to actually prep them selfs for it and at least the enemy could perhaps "get ready" for there first attack in some way, then there "emergency stealth" would only be used as an actual get away with the 15 seconds they have spare and not just a quick jump into safe zone just so 60-90 seconds later then can try again and again and again till they succeed.

Im Liking this idea Very much then i think PvP would be a little bit more balanced

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver · September 2011

Soul of Retaliation + Soul of Vengeance + Soulburn ftw ijs

b:pleased
b:surrender

Quinnie - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'd simply prefer the method of making stealth not last for ever till there MP runs dry, like, make the non combat mode stealth last 30 seconds with a 45 second cool down and the battle mode stealth last 15 seconds with a 2-5 minute cool down.

This way, sins can no longer stealth for ever and jump out when ever they feel like it, instead they have to actually prep them selfs for it and at least the enemy could perhaps "get ready" for there first attack in some way, then there "emergency stealth" would only be used as an actual get away with the 15 seconds they have spare and not just a quick jump into safe zone just so 60-90 seconds later then can try again and again and again till they succeed.

+1

detection pots arent rly that helpfull since sins end up with 1~3 stealth lvl above the max detect lvl ppl can get.

_Morigan_ - Harshlands · September 2011

Yes all you have to do is take the 1st hit. but like I said (idk if you are reading what im saying or don't understand the concept of server lag) You can get hit several times before the damage or the sin shows up on your screen. Meaning you don't have chance to expel if you don't know you are getting hit until it's too late.

I've tested this with a friend, he said he hit me 6 times and I only saw 1 hit on my side for 2.2k as i died. (and i have roughly 200-300 ms ping, not bad by any means)

.

Correct!

Got killed by a high aps fish at westgate. Expected his attack and was prepared. Sin stunned outta stealth and i died instant. My dmg log only showed only 1 **** hit with around 1k dmg and my hp is 7k+.
I pmed him cause i didnt get it why i died fast like this.
He said, he hit me over 3 seconds and wondered why i didnt do a thing. He told me that its possible that damage log doesnt show the first few hits dealed by r9 sins.

Im arcane armor veno and with 5k+ pdef not squishy at all.

I really want to know, how to survive first strikes like this. Genie, apo, anti stun skills useless. Should i go for 15k hp with 8k pdef to buy me time to react on shxx like this?

Anyway theres no need at all to nerf sins.

Instead of this, give veno full working bramble guard in pvp and reduce it only in duration + rise chi costs to 1 spark. Its castable on everybody, so fishes wont be op like they are now and qqing about OP would come to an end.

Ah no, sorry, my bad.

QQ wouldnt stop at all. It would be changed in QQ op venos again and pwi would die cause cash shop sins rule pwi and would quit spending tons of cash to feel pro in their "live"

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2011

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »

So say if the buff was maxed at lvl 10 it would give +30 awareness lvls (or whatever the max stealth increase is for sins +30 i think but can't remember) so a lvl 100 barb would then have an awareness of 130 and be able to spot those sins of his lvl coming, may not help him b:chuckle but would give him a fighting chance.

I think this would give PvP back a good sense of balance without taking the stealth advantage away completly, after all if you are of higher lvl with maxed skills a lower lvl still wouldn't be able to see you. But the same lvl player would be able to with the buff or if a lower lvl player had the buff and the sin didn't have their skills maxed they could be seen.

it seems reasonable. But considering a good majority of the servers are sins (can pretty much tell cause so many sin applications on TW factions they raise their level requisites) i doubt they would agree on anything that would take away an ounce of their advantage :P thus is life...

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide · September 2011

Good idea, bad idea and of course the idoits that had no opinion at all and were just trolling.

To those that think I made this thread QQing about op sins grow a pair I've only been killed 2 times in PK by sins. First was a r8 +12 5 aps sin that I had killed 5 mins before and he came back to gank me while I was taking on an archer. The other was a full r9 sin that was +10 on almost all gears (he is +12 on all now) and I've killed him 2/3 times we've fought. My gear is not super op, though it is pretty good, mix of Lunar and tt99 with Cube protection neck and Warsong Belt armor at +5 with tt100 wep at +8 I'm pretty freaken hard to kill but I do die and I don't QQ that so and so killed me or ganked me. I get back up and kill them or die trying to take my revenge. Classes that kill me the most - Psys and Archers.

Making bramble PvP all the time would rock as some suggested be easy to sit back and watch sins kill themselves along with the person they attacked.

And to those that suggested nerfing stealth with high cooldowns or short lived effect I don't really want that. I love soloing on my sin I make plenty of coin a day just from that. I would just like to see PvP balanced a bit more PvE I think is fine cause you don't have to squad with sins to get stuff done though it does make things easier.

So support or no such a buff or what do you think would bring PvP balance back?

CessiI - Dreamweaver · September 2011

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »

To those that think I made this thread QQing about op sins grow a pair I've only been killed 2 times in PK by sins. First was a r8 +12 5 aps sin that I had killed 5 mins before and he came back to gank me while I was taking on an archer. The other was a full r9 sin that was +10 on almost all gears (he is +12 on all now) and I've killed him 2/3 times we've fought. My gear is not super op, though it is pretty good, mix of Lunar and tt99 with Cube protection neck and Warsong Belt armor at +5 with tt100 wep at +8 I'm pretty freaken hard to kill

errr... looking at how you describe your gear, you would be one shot lunch for my barb,

now im figuring out how the hell a sin could fail against the gear you just called,

if you say its *skill* , my friends, when it is a cleric with this gear, and a sin he described going into a clash, skill is of no importance, cleric will die.

anyhow gooluck lieing to yourself, i dont buy this

FiveAps - Dreamweaver · September 2011

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »

Good idea, bad idea and of course the idoits that had no opinion at all and were just trolling.

To those that think I made this thread QQing about op sins grow a pair I've only been killed 2 times in PK by sins. First was a r8 +12 5 aps sin that I had killed 5 mins before and he came back to gank me while I was taking on an archer. The other was a full r9 sin that was +10 on almost all gears (he is +12 on all now) and I've killed him 2/3 times we've fought. My gear is not super op, though it is pretty good, mix of Lunar and tt99 with Cube protection neck and Warsong Belt armor at +5 with tt100 wep at +8 I'm pretty freaken hard to kill but I do die and I don't QQ that so and so killed me or ganked me. I get back up and kill them or die trying to take my revenge. Classes that kill me the most - Psys and Archers.

that means Sins on your server suck.
lol.
Really on that kind of setup you have, I do about 3k dmg non crit. at 3.33 aps, I really wonder how much can you survive it if you're stun for ...lets say... 3 seconds?
clerics have no chance against sins. None.
Not like other classes stand a chance anyway, sins are so overpowered in both pve and pvp is not even funny.
But yeah, you can dream on about killing +!0 r8 and +10 r9s.
Then you can wake up and login in game.

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide · September 2011

It's called I have 9k phys def and 8k hp and a genie and still upgrading my gear to get where I want which will be 12k phys def and 10k hp. Granted lots of sins on my server suck. But there are a lot of pro ones too. Like I said I am just hard to kill and sleep works wonders on sins that think sparking while stealthed surprises me or has a chance to get me.

And again this isn't a QQ thread, try putting your opinion on the question asked.

jimbillybob46310 · September 2011

WOW your OP.
please inform the rest of the world how you sleep a sin when you are stun locked till death?
IJS

HardToThink - Lost City · September 2011

Nopers, stealth isn't op. Tidal protection is.

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »

It's called I have 9k phys def and 8k hp and a genie and still upgrading my gear to get where I want which will be 12k phys def and 10k hp. Granted lots of sins on my server suck. But there are a lot of pro ones too. Like I said I am just hard to kill and sleep works wonders on sins that think sparking while stealthed surprises me or has a chance to get me.

And again this isn't a QQ thread, try putting your opinion on the question asked.

gl sleeping through a 66% chance to resist sleep!

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide · September 2011

Again get on topic please.

If you don't know how to avoid a stun lock you have no place Pking. And 66% chance to resist sleep? Demon focused mind only gives 20% resist chance pray tell what skill is that that sin has 'cause so far for me cleric sleep is 100% successful and has never failed on me, it's only limited by up to a certain number a secs so sometimes 5 sometimes I get a full 45 secs from my demon sleep.

Broederjr - Lost City · September 2011

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »

Again get on topic please.

If you don't know how to avoid a stun lock you have no place Pking. And 66% chance to resist sleep? Demon focused mind only gives 20% resist chance pray tell what skill is that that sin has 'cause so far for me cleric sleep is 100% successful and has never failed on me, it's only limited by up to a certain number a secs so sometimes 5 sometimes I get a full 45 secs from my demon sleep.

they mean tidal protection thats for debuffs focused mind is jsut for damage
Sage tidal protection Increases your chance to avoid negative status effects by 50%.
Lasts 60 seconds.

Tidal Protection shares a 90 second cooldown with Focused Mind.

Negative status Evasion is increased by an additional 16%.
demon
Sage tidal protection Increases your chance to avoid negative status effects by 50%.
Lasts 60 seconds.

Tidal Protection shares a 90 second cooldown with Focused Mind.
Damage Evasion is increased by 10%.
that 10% is jsut for damage hardtothink means the actual thing that negates debuffs

jimbillybob46310 · September 2011

Maybe im wrong here but dont ALOT of classes have anti stun/ sleep skills?
I believe for a sin its maze step. Also i call BS on your sleep being 100%. Im a barb and i use my 79 skill and **** clerics EVERYTIME because their sleep FAILS when my skill is active.

Would you support a new Stealth Detect Buff?

Comments

Categories