Archers with BP

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  • SmifnWesson - Lost City
    SmifnWesson - Lost City Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    truekossy wrote: »
    Just wanted to point out that most archers do have an assassin alt and an account stash to the point where it's a mainstream "joke" that having an assassin alt is a requirement for being an archer.

    And yes, it's been mathematically proven that an assassin can out-DPS an archer using the same gear as the archer. Fortunately for the archers, there's a pretty huge gap between Rank9 (archer only) and second cast Nirvana.




    Since archers using fists/claws seems to cause such a huge fuss, let them be able to use daggers but not get BP since it makes sense for the dex based class to have a dex based weapon for close combat (not to mention it would be historically accurate as no sane archer in reality would hit someone with a bow and arrow if they got close... they'd pull a dagger and use their close combat training). In the end, the only arguments people can make against BP being an all-class buff boils down to "QQ ARCHERS R USE BOWS ONLY". And anyone with any degree of sense knows that that, frankly, is a load of bull that doesn't have any real weight.


    I wouldnt have any problem with archers getting the same buff sins,bm,barb, seekers...it wouldnt work with a bow anyways like many have said.

    the only thing is I think personally the real fuss from said archers in my opinion is the fact that they dont have an assasin, cause realistically theres always going to be one sin in a group and no melee archer is going to steal agro from an equally geared dagger using sin, so the need for bp in a group aspect for healing seems mostly useless, and if its to be used/needed for soloing instances, again like you said they all have sin alts anyways, and why would you solo with your archer w/bp over a sin? sins going to have more dps, more healing, more capability, efficiency...

    and in pk? well melee archer vs another melee class toe to toe....good freaking luck, and well as stated before bp wont work with bows...

    so again as said before I wouldnt mind them having it, but I dont see why the mega complaints other than the archers who may not have a sin or a high lvl solo instancing sin...or really its neither and people just like to argue....
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    I feel torn on Veno's, but I KNOW the second they would get BP all you would see is HA venos 4.0 base. It would most likely end up ruining that class too. Haven't we already ruined enough classes with bp and -int. b:surrender
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I feel torn on Veno's, but I KNOW the second they would get BP all you would see is HA venos 4.0 base. It would most likely end up ruining that class too. Haven't we already ruined enough classes with bp and -int. b:surrender

    Oh come on, I totally wouldn't buy an account stash and rank 8 for my Archer and level him to 100 if Archers got BM.

    No, I wouldn't do that. Totally not.

    Well, I might actually just make a Sage Archer instead. Fist DPS doesn't change, but you get the 25% reduction and Sage Sharpened Tooth Arrow.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Oh come on, I totally wouldn't buy an account stash and rank 8 for my Archer and level him to 100 if Archers got BM.

    No, I wouldn't do that. Totally not.

    Well, I might actually just make a Sage Archer instead. Fist DPS doesn't change, but you get the 25% reduction and Sage Sharpened Tooth Arrow.

    I'll make you a deal, archers get bp and we get rank plates with -.1 int. b:avoid
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I'll make you a deal, archers get bp and we get rank plates with -.1 int. b:avoid

    No way. -0.05, maybe. For Rank 9. For BM only.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No way. -0.05, maybe. For Rank 9. For BM only.

    Request denied. Your honor I file for a motion of mistrial. b:cute
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • OiOOio - Raging Tide
    OiOOio - Raging Tide Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Sir_Puma - Raging Tide wrote: »
    ... allowing them to use fists/claws witch even shoudn't be.....


    I understand how BP shouldnt be given to archers since they are made to hit from distance, but allowing them to use fists I dont see how you disagree.

    If you want to use fists then so be it... its the same as how sins uses bows occasionally.
    truekossy wrote: »
    ... It's bad enough that they lost swimming mastery...

    I did not know that... I have to check that since I could of sworn I have this still on my veno. I cant lvl it but I know I have it as a passive skill.
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ... only

    way I`d support BP on archers if they use the previously mentioned fists/claws not a bow, BP

    doesn't work also when an assassin is using a bow.


    I wonder if archers used daggers if BP will work...
    My logic behind this is that if sins uses daggers/fists BP works, but when using a bow it does not. There could be code saying daggers = BP but bow does not = BP.... so if daggers has code for BP ... do u think if archers can use daggers it would see it as BP??

    I know crazy thinking but has any1 tried this or have thought of this?
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    OiOOio - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I wonder if archers used daggers if BP will work...
    My logic behind this is that if sins uses daggers/fists BP works, but when using a bow it does not. There could be code saying daggers = BP but bow does not = BP.... so if daggers has code for BP ... do u think if archers can use daggers it would see it as BP??

    I know crazy thinking but has any1 tried this or have thought of this?

    Um, no?

    Because Blademasters and Barbarians get the skill.

    Adding a line where Daggers allow for BP would just add extra code, because the code for the skill itself has to have a specification for the classes already. Otherwise it wouldn't be class-locked.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    OiOOio - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I did not know that... I have to check that since I could of sworn I have this still on my veno. I cant lvl it but I know I have it as a passive skill.
    Yep. A while before the tideborn expansion, Venomancer's swimming mastery was removed. You can still learn the skill but the new effect is that it does... absolutely nothing. Barbs, on the other hand, got to keep their swimming mastery (and a good few topics came up on the forums asking wtf the devs were thinking by doing this).
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Um, no?

    Because Blademasters and Barbarians get the skill.

    Adding a line where Daggers allow for BP would just add extra code, because the code for the skill itself has to have a specification for the classes already. Otherwise it wouldn't be class-locked.
    This is pretty much the issue with bloodpaint that those who have a problem with it have. If it were simply weapon based, that'd be fine and logical... but it's class-locked on top of that.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    truekossy wrote: »
    Yep. A while before the tideborn expansion, Venomancer's swimming mastery was removed. You can still learn the skill but the new effect is that it does... absolutely nothing. Barbs, on the other hand, got to keep their swimming mastery (and a good few topics came up on the forums asking wtf the devs were thinking by doing this).


    This is pretty much the issue with bloodpaint that those who have a problem with it have. If it were simply weapon based, that'd be fine and logical... but it's class-locked on top of that.

    If you open up encyclopedia you'll see (like for tideborn) there are a good chunk of skills that were meant to be used for Tide Form, but since they have .0001% of content in water they never put them in. That makes me wonder if there is more content that might come with that you would be underwater for the majority of it.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ..That makes me wonder if there is more content that might come..

    I can stop you right here. The answer is no.
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    ^ Beat me to it. b:surrender
  • //athan - Dreamweaver38
    //athan - Dreamweaver38 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    hell yea lets give BP to archers, cause they can use fists
    hmm wait cant venos,clerics,wiz,psys use fists?
    lets give them BP too so wizzies can recover full Hp while aoeing in TW b:pleased

    BP = melee class, archers are not
    ppl QQ for BP, but ur not QQing about frostblade? that is totally useless for mag classes? lol
    and for venos, they arent suposed to tank anything, so why give them BP lol, even in an instance where u have to zhen, if a veno have agro, idk but sounds fail since its not her job XD
  • Clavier - Dreamweaver
    Clavier - Dreamweaver Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    If you open up encyclopedia you'll see (like for tideborn) there are a good chunk of skills that were meant to be used for Tide Form, but since they have .0001% of content in water they never put them in. That makes me wonder if there is more content that might come with that you would be underwater for the majority of it.

    I wouldn't mind having a more viable use for Tide form, outside of a useless travel skill. Maybe that instance opened up in their territory.

    Weren't Seekers supposed to get their own class of sword weapon? A Claymore right?

    //athan - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    hell yea lets give BP to archers, cause they can use fists
    hmm wait cant venos,clerics,wiz,psys use fists?
    lets give them BP too so wizzies can recover full Hp while aoeing in TW b:pleased

    BP = melee class, archers are not
    ppl QQ for BP, but ur not QQing about frostblade? that is totally useless for mag classes? lol
    and for venos, they arent suposed to tank anything, so why give them BP lol, even in an instance where u have to zhen, if a veno have agro, idk but sounds fail since its not her job XD

    Bp should be melee specific, but the only class that gets the short end of the stick in that regard is a veno, since they're half-melee, like a Seeker. If venos DID get the opportunity to get BP however there would be a need to put serious restrictions on their pets and what weapons they can use and how BP effects them, since they can only get viable Melee damage in fox form they should only be able to be effected by BP in fox form, transitioning out or swapping from a magic weapon would cancel the skill.
  • //athan - Dreamweaver38
    //athan - Dreamweaver38 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    what i meant is a veno isnt suposed to tank anything. in any instance, even if she is in fox form, so i dont think it really worth (for devs at least) to work on something that in the end wouldnt really be usefull. BP could be good for venos in delta or something, but i rarelly see a veno in fox form. and in any farming instances, a veno in foxform wouldnt tank anything, cause not enough dps. so yeah they are half melee, but in the end they wouldnt use it
  • krittycat
    krittycat Posts: 4,187 Community Moderator
    edited August 2011
    Clavier - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind having a more viable use for Tide form, outside of a useless travel skill. Maybe that instance opened up in their territory.

    Weren't Seekers supposed to get their own class of sword weapon? A Claymore right

    They do have Claymores, they just aren't for sale on the open market and at NPCs. The Claymores (edited versions of swords already in the game) are in A) Stash box, B) One of the early quests, and C) Rank gear.
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  • Clavier - Dreamweaver
    Clavier - Dreamweaver Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    KrittyCat wrote: »
    They do have Claymores, they just aren't for sale on the open market and at NPCs. The Claymores (edited versions of swords already in the game) are in A) Stash box, B) One of the early quests, and C) Rank gear.

    That's kinda not the point there is it? An edited version of a preexisting one does not a separate class weapon make

    //athan - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    what i meant is a veno isnt suposed to tank anything. in any instance, even if she is in fox form, so i dont think it really worth (for devs at least) to work on something that in the end wouldnt really be usefull. BP could be good for venos in delta or something, but i rarelly see a veno in fox form. and in any farming instances, a veno in foxform wouldnt tank anything, cause not enough dps. so yeah they are half melee, but in the end they wouldnt use it

    I knew your point, and I commend you for sticking to it, but BP isnt a predetermined class buff that only buffs tanks. It only buffs Melee classes. Callling them tanks isnt as...apropos... can they tank? Yes, but thats not the point of it, the point of it is to give it to melee's and half-melees. But seeing as they already have a tank (herc) they dont really need it, nor for that matter do they any augments to make them stronger or weaker.
  • krittycat
    krittycat Posts: 4,187 Community Moderator
    edited August 2011
    Clavier - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    That's kinda not the point there is it? An edited version of a preexisting one does not a separate class weapon make

    Well, they made it look unique, and they are Seeker-only.b:chuckle
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  • Clavier - Dreamweaver
    Clavier - Dreamweaver Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    KrittyCat wrote: »
    Well, they made it look unique, and they are Seeker-only.b:chuckle

    *playful eyeroll*
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Clavier - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind having a more viable use for Tide form, outside of a useless travel skill. Maybe that instance opened up in their territory

    Just allow sparking in Tide Form and I'll be happy.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • LilNai - Harshlands
    LilNai - Harshlands Posts: 481 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Ohai der Olblaze.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    LilNai - Harshlands wrote: »
    Ohai der Olblaze.

    Can I apply bloody violence to your forehead? I hear it's good for head aches.

    b:cute
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    LilNai - Harshlands wrote: »
    Ohai der Olblaze.

    Oh snap! You added an extra l to his name! **** about to get real in dis joint!
  • LilNai - Harshlands
    LilNai - Harshlands Posts: 481 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Can I apply bloody violence to your forehead? I hear it's good for head aches.

    b:cute

    Already had the bloody violence, its why I struggle to read too good at timez b:cute
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    LilNai - Harshlands wrote: »
    Already had the bloody violence, its why I struggle to read too good at timez b:cute

    Well, you'll have to wait a bit, but I can send in an application to Disney for some Bloodless Violence. Would that do?

    b:cute
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • UMad_Bro - Sanctuary
    UMad_Bro - Sanctuary Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    All classes should get bloodpaint. Yes, even casters like cleric and wizzy. They can all do melee damage with regular attack. Magic swords have a 1.25 attack rate (same as daggers!) making them viable for APS permaspark and melee DPS should they equip interval gear. (Just for fun, I am already making an interval wizard so I can crack jokes about frostblade being useful to me b:chuckle)

    They might not have the DPS output with melee attacks as they do casting, but it is an option they could explore and have fun with.

    Why aren't people complaining that strength of titans (barb phys atk buff) goes on all these casters? What's wrong with an archer having BP? They have the lowest base damage with claw of any other class that uses them and would get the least return from BP.


    "But archers primary weapon is range!!!"

    So what? Nobody is asking for it to return hp from using ranged attacks, only melee attacks. If their bow is such a "primary weapon" for them, they wont get much from BP. Why are people so against the idea?

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