Archers with BP

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lack of BP on archer just makes more archers reroll to sins. That's part of why you see so many sins. Making BP freely available would be a sin nerf and this game is in desperate need of fewer sins.

Are all the people in favor of more class restrictions also in favor of making casters class locked into wearing AA? How about BMs unable to use LA or unable to use bows?

I still think a lot of them would make a sin, and that's mainly for the skill set and massive damage increase. They basically need to farm r8 then get daggers and wala you have the same gear from archer on sin and a huge PvE production increase (this assuming if both could get bp).

Ahh you're a sin. It's funny how many sins are embarrassed to post on their mains these days due to all the negative stigma about being a sin lol.

Kreuz - Raging Tide wrote: »

Archer should get BP because of their cute little Wings on their Ears ^.^

Um, it's the clerics who get the cute little wings. Archers just get ugly big wings. Very different.

truekossy wrote: »

BP only applies to melee regardless of what weapon you use. If archers were allowed to be buffed with BP, bow damage wouldn't matter because it would only come into play with melee.

Or have you folks immediately jumping against it not noticed that when a sin is buffed with BP and uses a bow, they don't get any HP back?

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't see what you guys are QQing about bows and magic for. BP by principle only works with melee attacks. BMs and sins using bows don't get HP back. That means if you give an archer BP they won't get any HP using a bow. *rolls eyes*

Wonder how many times we'll have to repeat that? Granted some no longer try to use it as justification but the amount that still do is... ugh...

truekossy wrote: »

Wonder how many times we'll have to repeat that? Granted some no longer try to use it as justification but the amount that still do is... ugh...

I'd give up BP to use daggers any day b:pleased

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lack of BP on archer just makes more archers reroll to sins. That's part of why you see so many sins. Making BP freely available would be a sin nerf and this game is in desperate need of fewer sins.

Are all the people in favor of more class restrictions also in favor of making casters class locked into wearing AA? How about BMs unable to use LA or unable to use bows?

-->I think giving archers BP would make more archers and I don't know about your server, but on mine over half the population is useless claw-archers and semi-useful sins. Sin > Claw-archer in every way? I think yes.

-->Casters stuck wearing AA? OMG what shall we do!?!? We need to refute this! ...Oh... wait magic gear... on magic classes... giving magic adds to people who need it... that makes sense! *face roll's my keyboard* kahafcbkadkcdljlfvjladkj <--Proof of face roll

LilNai - Harshlands wrote: »

Freedom without limit is hell.

Nobody cares about BMs occasionally using bows to deal with kiting things, nobody gives a flying **** about Venomancers wearing Heavy Armor. They have issues, hence why not everyone does it and why few care.

As for a Sin nerf, lol. Just LOL. It wouldnt nerf Sins. It might make a mild dent in the population, but it wouldnt nerf them at all.

Why would I not roll a Sin for farming again? What do archers have in PvE using fists? APS and healing off of Bloodpaint should you get your wish. Nothing much else, the majority of your interesting skills require a bow. All giving you Bloodpaint would do is make you even less likely to use your bow.

If you want true freedom in this game. Then there would be no classes. No skills limited to class. Youd just get the "x point to put in talents" sort of **** other MMOs pull off.

This would result in a horrible game.

^This about sums up how I feel concerning any statement directed towards anything said in this thread and the over-tired-over-used-over-complained about argument in favor of claw-archers and fist-archers. Man I'm glad I didn't have to rant and say this. LilNai thank you from the bottom of my heart for proving that in PWI other people CAN possess common sense.

until sins can use the pumpkinhead pills, archers should not get BP b:surrender

I believe that archers should also get Blood Paint. It will never happen but seriously...everyone is so worried about how overpowered an archer would be with Blood Paint...but look at seekers. Seekers can solo a frost big room's mobs at lvl 80 with mediocre gear thanks to that stupid buff. That screams overpowered to me. :O

LilNai - Harshlands wrote: »

prefer Chemistry and Biology. such.... fun, mixing **** up and learning what makes things explode.

Fixed!

I can't believe you mentioned chemistry, mixing stuff up, and didn't add in explosions. Your opinion is now officially nullified from this utter and complete lack of love FOR SCIENCE! b:angry

Why pick one? Use the grenade's explosion to create a chain reaction that causes a country to go down in flames! b:sin Derail Successful!

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

She is pointing out the flaw in your argument.

Your only argument was that only classes with a melee mastery should receive a melee buff. You offer no reason for why this should be the case and you realize that venos would meet this arbitrary criteria.

Your whole point I believe boils down to a notion that classes should only receive buffs that would be useable with their traditional (obsolete) roles. This point is false. She shows this by pointing out the counterexample that a class that has virtually no use at all for physical attack (such as a wiz) is perfectly capable of receiving a physical attack buff from a barb.

You were the one that failed to understand the significance of the counter example.

While magic classes do receive the potential to deal extra damage with titans, there's no point in arguing the difference between a buff and a passive mastery. They're two entirely different things. If you haven't figured out that that's how the skill is dictated, you should really seek logic instead of this semantic rhetoric that you want to spew at everyone until you've come to a point where no one is left to argue with.


Unfortunately its not a flaw in my argument. Which classes are effected by BP? The classes that have an original means of dealing melee damage, and have a natural passive that increases said original means of dealing damage.

The point is not false as every class is effected by an arbitrary barbarian buff that only lasts
for a few minutes, rather than is permanent.

Unfortunately however everyone will complain about it being set that way and will continue to complain that this is unfair, even though we all know that through the power of an exploit that archers are even able to be considered a viable melee class to begin with.

The classes are set a certain way along with the buffs that are generated for them. If you want to complain that archers (who are archers, not boxers) cant get the full effect of a melee attack then be my guest, but everyone knows the definition of an archer, and as a "ranged physical attacker" not a "melee" attacker they shouldn't get the effect.

Because you cant see the difference between a natural passive and an added passive sure, I guess everyone should get BP. I guess everyone should get tiger/fox form too right? Maybe everyone should get a viable knockback that works in all situations? Or maybe we should all get a revive that we can constantly cast on ourselves? Better yet , how about we all just take all the classes and merge them into one conglomerate mess and make a super class possessing all potential skills and abilities so that we can all turn into super heroes from CO.

Do you see the point?

If not here it is; each class has a defining characteristic between them, and melee damage for archers, psys, clerics, Human form venos, wizards, and mystics are not melee classes, they can strap on fists and pretend, and some of you even have pandered cute little stats proving you're "better" but better still doesn't mean you get bp or any other melee related class buff, nor should it.

Would it make you feel better if the little blip showed up on your buff bar and still had no effect? Because if that's so I'm pretty sure I can sift through the line of code and give you a
permanent BP icon under your name with a little bit of programming.

But, again this is all semantics and people will argue over anything and everything. Its always fun to me to see such a hornets next derived from a game. A GAME. It yields you nothing except another reason to complain and argue with other people. If you're only reason to even play this anymore is to whine about how unfair it is that you don't get certain attack buffs or defense buffs you really need to get out and enjoy life.

Video game politics and economics are like tornadoes. They only really effect people in trailer parks.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

This doesn't explain venos not getting BP. Point nullified.

You apparently didn't read my previous statement that venos deserve it also
We have Melee range skills that can be used with any weapon. The above is an It is a melee ranged skill that is not a melee ranged masteryuneducated statement. Point nullified.
No unfortunately its not, You have a majority of attacks that are based further than 15 meters just because you have 2 attacks at less than 10 meters does not quantify you as a melee class.

Irrelevant.
how? How is melee range vs long range primary attack form irrelevant? Its the defining characteristics of the majority of classes in this game.

You have none.
You have no argument. All your evidence is ****, to put it bluntly. You are forcing instances of certain class features and buffs into this little hole to try to fit them in as an example for a shoddy claim. Meanwhile, all the proof you are bringing up is not directly correlated with this particular situation in a way that in demonstrates any sort of point.

And then you resort to try to insult. But frankly all I see from opposition to this idea is the same old "ARCHER IS ARCHER HAV BOW NO HIT CLOSE IS ARCHER" Some principle based **** that has no real basis to stand up for. But damned if you will ever admit it.

It's not like I expect this buff's shoddy mechanics to be fixed any time soon, but it certainly would't hurt anything, and there are no valid reasons to oppose it.

Why should a class who is already potentially effective at long range have the benefit of being able to be effected by a melee ranged buff, when all that a melee class is effective at is melee range?

Why should melee classes get punished because you as an archer decided to slap on a pair of claws or fists and decided to play bm when I as a seeker can't?

"But its not punishment."

Yes, it is, and it's punishment because in a melee to melee fight between an archer and a bm it comes down to bp. If the archer doesn't run away like it should, its just a bm vs bm duel aside from you not having bp. You don't deserve the buff I'm sorry its class mechanics.

Seekers are unaffected at long range by it and cant use fists. Why should you get the benefit when I don't? Why should you get the benefit of a melee buff when we the majority of melee classes don't have a viable means of defending themselves at long range?

Why does titan's not effect all classes when they all deal physical damage?

Why does Spirits gift only effect all classes but only casters get the benefit, when clearly every class deals magic(elemental) damage?

I tell you what, all classes can get BP if all true melee classes can deal full damage in combat against players or bramble effects all classes and all forms of damage at all ranges. This of course, wont happen.

And before you jump to the conclusion that I think you're talking about your bow getting BP, dont.

You're an archer Deal with it.

Cadeal - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why should a class who is already potentially effective at long range have the benefit of being able to be effected by a melee ranged buff, when all that a melee class is effective at is melee range?

Why should melee classes get punished because you as an archer decided to slap on a pair of claws or fists and decided to play bm when I as a seeker can't?

"But its not punishment."

Yes, it is, and it's punishment because in a melee to melee fight between an archer and a bm it comes down to bp. If the archer doesn't run away like it should, its just a bm vs bm duel aside from you not having bp. You don't deserve the buff I'm sorry its class mechanics.

Seekers are unaffected at long range by it and cant use fists. Why should you get the benefit when I don't? Why should you get the benefit of a melee buff when we the majority of melee classes don't have a viable means of defending themselves at long range?

Why does titan's not effect all classes when they all deal physical damage?

Why does Spirits gift only effect all classes but only casters get the benefit, when clearly every class deals magic(elemental) damage?

I tell you what, all classes can get BP if all true melee classes can deal full damage in combat against players or bramble effects all classes and all forms of damage at all ranges. This of course, wont happen.

And before you jump to the conclusion that I think you're talking about your bow getting BP, dont.

You're an archer Deal with it.

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your argument is weak and arbitrary[...]You sir, are an idiot.

^ sums it up, but I would use the word "uneducated" as well.

LilNai - Harshlands wrote: »

Right, since Assassins are just as good with a bow as archers, apparently, all of you go reroll Assassins.

Just wanted to point out that most archers do have an assassin alt and an account stash to the point where it's a mainstream "joke" that having an assassin alt is a requirement for being an archer.

And yes, it's been mathematically proven that an assassin can out-DPS an archer using the same gear as the archer. Fortunately for the archers, there's a pretty huge gap between Rank9 (archer only) and second cast Nirvana.




Since archers using fists/claws seems to cause such a huge fuss, let them be able to use daggers but not get BP since it makes sense for the dex based class to have a dex based weapon for close combat (not to mention it would be historically accurate as no sane archer in reality would hit someone with a bow and arrow if they got close... they'd pull a dagger and use their close combat training). In the end, the only arguments people can make against BP being an all-class buff boils down to "QQ ARCHERS R USE BOWS ONLY". And anyone with any degree of sense knows that that, frankly, is a load of bull that doesn't have any real weight.

Dude, you're archers. You're a ranged class. It's right there in the name.