R9's vs The not so well geared

Adroit - Lost City · April 2011

Proski - Archosaur wrote: »

first order of business: assuming that sin isn't complete trash, for a wizard with those defenses you can't beat zerk daggers by using your genie to anti immune stuns or by breaking out of them, you need the immunity to physical with a high regen rate to stand any chance. no expel = no chance. inb4 androit comes into this thread and says he beats rank9 daggers with just fortify in tt90 gear

its the archosoar buttbuddies at work again. There are two methods for surviving aps.. staying out of range (anti control skills such as fortify/badge) of physical immune (expel/domain). Neither are effective against sins. It sucks that they have so many different kinds of control skills (not to mention how good they are.. or how the cooldowns/chi requirements are a joke) and it sucks that they can simply use their water skill and hold you in place with their control skills until expel ends. Expel is just as useless as fortify/badge against sins.

Proski - Archosaur · April 2011

lol, except when you fortify or badge of courage you still die because zerk makes their damage and what becomes you getting 1-2 shot more of a problem than their disables. they don't need their disables to kill you anymore.

with expel you can't die for 9-10 seconds, which is essentially being immune to them having their way with you. but the duration lasts longer, and you can take your flyer off or do many other 'natural' things that allow you to live long enough to get another fow several seconds later. if you don't agree that the only way to kill a sin like that with that particular wizards gear is off the duration of a fow, i don't know what to say.

HardToThink - Lost City · April 2011

I promise turning this into a flame thread was an accident! x.x

Cheze - Lost City · April 2011

RioNHale - Archosaur wrote: »

This R9 Sin

http://pwcalc.com/c8afecba07022f5d

vs this wiz

http://pwcalc.com/74dbd88ad04f8f14

Does the wiz never stand a chance?

/Discuss.

P.s
If the sin isnt allowed to stealth in this 1v1, lets face it, stealth is a portable safety zone, what would the wiz's chances be?

27.83333% repeating of course.

LittIewg - Heavens Tear · April 2011

Cleric can murder the sin. Assuming thats the gear the sin was wearing -+3 r8.- As illy said,A lot of r8 users are lowly refined. For me.. If I catch a sin that has very low refines out of stealth,2 shots and that sin is dead. There very squishy to magic. So I could see the cleric sleeping the sin,Triple spark,Freeze the sin(They have this skill that freezes the target,I dont know the name of the skill

And DD away. All the while the sin was frozen in one spot not able to move,With a +11 wep,A triple sparked cleric should 2shot any sin thats wearing +3 gear. But this is assuming the sin isnt using apoths that make you immune to damage or freeze,or the sin hasnt popped AD.. It honestly depends on the skill of the player,Apoth,Genie,Skill. That all comes into play,But lets not act like r9 isnt a HUGE difference,If u 1v1 a r9 player ur gonna have to have a lot of skill to come out alive.

truekossy · April 2011

LittIewg - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Cleric can murder the sin. Assuming thats the gear the sin was wearing -+3 r8.- As illy said,A lot of r8 users are lowly refined. For me.. If I catch a sin that has very low refines out of stealth,2 shots and that sin is dead. There very squishy to magic. So I could see the cleric sleeping the sin,Triple spark,Freeze the sin(They have this skill that freezes the target,I dont know the name of the skill And DD away. All the while the sin was frozen in one spot not able to move,With a +11 wep,A triple sparked cleric should 2shot any sin thats wearing +3 gear. But this is assuming the sin isnt using apoths that make you immune to damage or freeze,or the sin hasnt popped AD.. It honestly depends on the skill of the player,Apoth,Genie,Skill. That all comes into play,But lets not act like r9 isnt a HUGE difference,If u 1v1 a r9 player ur gonna have to have a lot of skill to come out alive.

And the instant the sleep wears off, the sin can shadow tele to the cleric and stunlock said cleric. Or the sin can force stealth. And, on a PvE server, you'll rarely find a sin out of stealth without self buffs up, so you'd have to deal with focused mind/tidal/nerves. That's before taking genies, magic defense charms, and the like into consideration.

KedgeSniper - Lost City · April 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

its the archosoar buttbuddies at work again. There are two methods for surviving aps.. staying out of range (anti control skills such as fortify/badge) of physical immune (expel/domain). Neither are effective against sins. It sucks that they have so many different kinds of control skills (not to mention how good they are.. or how the cooldowns/chi requirements are a joke) and it sucks that they can simply use their water skill and hold you in place with their control skills until expel ends. Expel is just as useless as fortify/badge against sins.

Your missing Faith, which is probably the best option IF you can survive 5.0.

I think is obvious Sin with similar gear can smack anyone for the simple fact of 1st hit/stealth. They have way to many ways to keep you in place and only way to get away will be faith.

Then again rank9 +12 sin can probably 1 shot Most classes with no +7 or higher refines.

Sin is just overpower in 1v1, At least a BM you can notice n dodge them or at least prevent their stun.

Expel is really bad for 1v1 if you use it on yourself.. (Only baddies dont check neutral buff) I mean great.. Your immune for a decent time.. but your useless too. Expel became useless after neutral buff for the simple fact that you could silence the sin/bm. I think expel decent in TW for saving someone/yourself from an Archer/Sin but i think Domain is just a better pick/energy wise.

Gorgonnia - Heavens Tear · May 2011

Wow... so much underestimation...

Sins aren't Gods. I kill sins all the time...even when they try to gank me in pairs or 3somes... They need a single shot to be dispatched. 2 if deaden is up. So, first shot = stun, deaden ticks and they cant move, 2nd shot = dead sin.

R9 sins hit harder, yes... but no sin goes for r9 armor so they keep the same defense as before with more dmg. I've had r9 sins kill themselves against my soulforce.

Ive seen r8 clerics kill sins (even r9) more than once.

If sins were THAT powerful they wouldn't need to live in stealth, would they? b:cute

Jellytoast - Sanctuary · May 2011

Gorgonnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wow... so much underestimation...

Sins aren't Gods. I kill sins all the time...even when they try to gank me in pairs or 3somes... They need a single shot to be dispatched. 2 if deaden is up. So, first shot = stun, deaden ticks and they cant move, 2nd shot = dead sin.

R9 sins hit harder, yes... but no sin goes for r9 armor so they keep the same defense as before with more dmg. I've had r9 sins kill themselves against my soulforce.

Ive seen r8 clerics kill sins (even r9) more than once.

If sins were THAT powerful they wouldn't need to live in stealth, would they? b:cute

Lol, I gotta agree with this. The only sins who take me out in tw/pk now since I got a few pieces of my nirvana gear are the ones with regular gear. There are 2 or 3 sins with r9 and everything with crazy high refines, those are the ones who come out of stealth and 2 shot me before I know what happened.
I can one or 2 shot almost any sin I come across in tw, I just have to get to them before they get to me.

TheDan - Sanctuary · May 2011

Coming from a psychic... Pretty much any R9 +10ed psy can be afk and kill average geared people.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · May 2011

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Pretty much any R9 +10ed psy can be afk and kill average geared people.

Sadly, this isn't even an exaggeration.

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide · May 2011

Well my wiz is R9+12 weap, +10 all gears with Jades of Steady Def. I cannot beat a psych +12 weap and +10 gears with jades in 1 vs 1 unless he seriously fks it up.

My only chance is to Triple Spark and crit or Blade tempest(he must not have barb buff).
I fought LuciferV many times and 1 vs 1 I dont have what to do vs him. He tanks my spark in white-voodoo, seals+stuns me often, ticks me, goes black voodoo and drops me with 9-11k crits. How cool is that? Maybe i am too nab but...I cant find solutions vs him.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · May 2011

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide wrote: »

I cant find solutions vs him.

Have you found any ways to beat an equally geared sin?

Desiree - Harshlands · May 2011

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well my wiz is R9+12 weap, +10 all gears with Jades of Steady Def. I cannot beat a psych +12 weap and +10 gears with jades in 1 vs 1 unless he seriously fks it up.

My only chance is to Triple Spark and crit or Blade tempest(he must not have barb buff).
I fought LuciferV many times and 1 vs 1 I dont have what to do vs him. He tanks my spark in white-voodoo, seals+stuns me often, ticks me, goes black voodoo and drops me with 9-11k crits. How cool is that? Maybe i am too nab but...I cant find solutions vs him.

In the past (aka long, long ago back when we were all 9x and I was fighting LuciferV with my crappy HA HH90 gear), the only viable strategy of beating a high-soulforced psychic is to nuke through their white voodoo+empowering vigour+charm while preventing yourself from being silenced/sealed/stunned. This requires extremely high nuking capability while in immune status (Absolute Domain + Ironguard). Of course this assumes the psychic does little/nothing in self defence.

But do not be upset - the psychic class was meant to scale this high with improved gear. I personally am of the opinion that psychics are the best end-game class because they are the only class whose max capabilities scale directly with their gear.

~Desiree

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide · May 2011

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Have you found any ways to beat an equally geared sin?

Sins have low magic def, even in +12 wep, +10 all, and r9.

I think I can beat a sin easier as I just expel, antistun and distance shrink then seal sleep and 1-2 shot with gush/pyro.

Beesh is r9+12 and 1 vs 1 i can kill him.

Maybe I have to test that with In_Predator, but if I dont get oneshoted in the initial attack, Expel is my savior.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · May 2011

If it's a good sin then you just expel and then they force stealth until expel is up.

TheDan - Sanctuary · May 2011

You just kite em until their tidal protection wears off.... lol. Then stun-lock and GG.

HardToThink - Lost City · May 2011

This is sa QQ R9 thread, not a QQ sin thread. Thanks. =] Even if you want to compete with r9's medals arent available unless you're in a winning tw faction, who's only recruiting r9s anyways =/

Joshcja - Sanctuary · May 2011

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

You just kite em until their tidal protection wears off.... lol. Then stun-lock and GG.

hard to do when the sin actually stealthspams. that said ya, catching a sin out of tidal = no u

and yes rank 9 is obscenly OP in so many ways its not even funny, and the rank 9 sets are pretty imbalanced as well, psys get massive soulforce, archers get adv purge and int....bm's get an axe

*shrug*

RioNHale - Archosaur · May 2011

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

hard to do when the sin actually stealthspams. that said ya, catching a sin out of tidal = no u

and yes rank 9 is obscenly OP in so many ways its not even funny, and the rank 9 sets are pretty imbalanced as well, psys get massive soulforce, archers get adv purge and int....bm's get an axe with god of frenzy.

*shrug*

fixed

in all honesty, all r9 weps are op regardless of class, wiz, r9 crits are insane even at low refinement.

its just that r9 sins seem to hit harder than wizards but with auto attacks at high aps thats why everyone qqs about them, its just god mode, the sin is always expected to win against any class and if the other class snags a win its out of the blue. T__T

Joshcja - Sanctuary · May 2011

RioNHale - Archosaur wrote: »

fixed

in all honesty, all r9 weps are op regardless of class, wiz, r9 crits are insane even at low refinement.

its just that r9 sins seem to hit harder than wizards but with auto attacks at high aps thats why everyone qqs about them, its just god mode, the sin is always expected to win against any class and if the other class snags a win its out of the blue. T__T

....you've never tried faceing a rank 9 caster on a bm have you?

Lyritha - Heavens Tear · May 2011

http://pwcalc.com/57a58679043dad2d

that would work but would be expensive also you would most likely need to make a assassin alt to achieve this because as it stands people are lame and do not take wizards to Nirvana.

Ezehc - Lost City · May 2011

Lyritha - Heavens Tear wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/57a58679043dad2d

that would work but would be expensive also you would most likely need to make a assassin alt to achieve this because as it stands people are lame and do not take wizards to Nirvana.

so much fail in that set up I don't even...

icebourne in a +10 weapon
jades in nv gear
+10 on a g16 cube neck
having a g16 cube neck without even having r9
+45 magic tome
tt nv instead of lunar
...
...
...

RioNHale - Archosaur · May 2011

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

....you've never tried faceing a rank 9 caster on a bm have you?

Ive taken an r9 wiz and an r9 psy a few times, the wiz was full r9 lowly refined but fully josd, the r9 psy was +12 wep +5 gear full dots (hard as sht to get anywhere near) with crazy *** soulforce.

granted they have powerful weapons, I can take them with whats considered by todays stadards as much worse.

I am able to get close these guys near enough to throw in a stunlock. due to near 18k hp lvl 11 buffed and almost 13k m.def buffed + marrowed, with def lvl/vit stones sharding and a few dots thrown in for good measure) giving me enough survival index to tank quite a bit of r9 damage.

I dont have any r9 gear on my bm.

I use tt100 axe +8, tt100 fists +10, tt99 green purge pole +4 (love purging my opponents when they are overpowered) and sometimes just for a joke tt90 zerk sword +5 (although I dont use that in serious 1v1s).

ok so most times, I could get enough hits onto my opponent connected with genie skills and consistantly using true emptiness to absorb magic attacks due to the fact TE is able to be spammed, i must admit in these r9 encounters my 92/100 lp genie saved my *** constantly, I also sometimes have to use apo, and a fair ammount of kiting if im getting beaten down using leaps and run skills.

Theres an r9 wiz ive fought on both my bm, the encounters on my bm are usually even, id say 50:50 win:lose ratio.

On my barb its very different fighting r9 casters, the magic marrow on bm helps so much, plus multiple stuns really helps keep the target inplace.

The r9 wiz 30k crit sage bidds my barb 3 days ago, those crazy spike crits happen rarely and often are game changers for 1v1s.
3 days ago he beat me 4:1 (in one of the fights I tanked a 17.9k crit).
yesterday 1:5 to me.

Today we fought 3 times, he beat me first, I beat him second, the third took nearly 20minutes and 350k charm landing me the final win, the way he would usually win is some immence crit.

I must admit fighting R9 casters is a big challenge, uphill fight, but all R9 weapons are overpowered.
An R9 bm a while back zerk crit my bm for 8.8k when he pulled those +10 axes out, we were fist fighting and stunlocking for ages but those damn axes put it in his favour.
We were self buffed only, and that 8.8k hit avoided my charm tick perfectly to gamechange the fight.

So please... bms do get an OP weapon too, although it may not be as favourable as claws or something, Bms still do stand a fair chance vs casters, however they need to work a little more on armour for defence with marrows too and the genie plays a massive part vs those magic attacks.

RioNHale - Archosaur · May 2011

Ezehc - Lost City wrote: »

so much fail in that set up I don't even...

icebourne in a +10 weapon
jades in nv gear
+10 on a g16 cube neck
having a g16 cube neck without even having r9
+45 magic tome
tt nv instead of lunar
...
...
...

That gear settup is also great for account stashing too, cleric, veno, mystic wiz and even psy minus the wep use that stuff on 1 account.

Unless your rich enough to afford R9 on all those characters...
Jades are fine for Nirvana gear, they were good enough before R9 this gear was considered the top **** not long ago.
Ive seen icebourne stones in R8 weapons, even Lunar g13, G15 nirvana is good enough to consider endgame and thus put a endgame stone in, although personnally I find them to be Nitpicker items for the very rich only.

TT Nirvana I use HA version of and it works great, my only critism is the g16 neck shoulda been +12.

You dont go G16 cube neck unless u +12 it, think about it, the hundreds of millions you spend on getting 9 cube necks to make a g16, +12 the g14 one instead and u get more p.def:

http://pwcalc.com/a96f73c6efec54aa

the +45 magic tome... omg this psy a while back had one... he hit so godamn hard, what... you expect her to use an interval tome?! LAWL.

dablitzpsychosis · May 2011

There are several ways to get passed someone with r9, especially if you have the advantage of having experience, something a lot of r9s don't possess. Even if they do, its uphill. But its possible to go 1v1 with a r9 foe. The 50+ attack lvl is rough, yes, and so are the defense lvls and the all around stats of the gear. But trust me, its possible. Even if pwi is money hungry with this gear, it'd be OUT of their favor to make r9 unbeatable to the sensible spender or 100% free to play gamer.

CoolRebirth - Archosaur · May 2011

dablitzpsychosis wrote: »

There are several ways to get passed someone with r9, especially if you have the advantage of having experience, something a lot of r9s don't possess. Even if they do, its uphill. But its possible to go 1v1 with a r9 foe. The 50+ attack lvl is rough, yes, and so are the defense lvls and the all around stats of the gear. But trust me, its possible. Even if pwi is money hungry with this gear, it'd be OUT of their favor to make r9 unbeatable to the sensible spender or 100% free to play gamer.

Takes a little bit of work and the like but trust me. It can be done. Besides, if it ain't r9 it'd be something entirely different. Like ridiculous stones or something like that.

Yulk_owns - Lost City · May 2011

I hope you guys know that sins' APS and almost all their skills require MELEE and have range too close to even attack so it is EASY to avoid.

How about you QQ about BMs, Barbs or venoes? They were more powerful than some ridiculous assassin R9 or not. What about +12 high magic attack + channeling casters? They hit a crapton with just one stupid button...

Sins not being able to be killed not being AFK? With like 7k HP? What a pile of BS. I owned 9x sins on 7x barb. Oh wait, that means nothing because that was duel... QQ moar please.

truekossy · May 2011

Why did the Yulk get brought back?! Maybe if we ignore it, it'll go away. b:cry

CoolRebirth - Archosaur · May 2011

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

I hope you guys know that sins' APS and almost all their skills require MELEE and have range too close to even attack so it is EASY to avoid.

How about you QQ about BMs, Barbs or venoes? They were more powerful than some ridiculous assassin R9 or not. What about +12 high magic attack + channeling casters? They hit a crapton with just one stupid button...

Sins not being able to be killed not being AFK? With like 7k HP? What a pile of BS. I owned 9x sins on 7x barb. Oh wait, that means nothing because that was duel... QQ moar please.

You make a serious point there. Sins have NEVER been unbeatable. You just have to learn how to deal with them. Which, if by lvl 70, you haven't been able to atleast get a 5:10 or better ratio outta duels with each class, you really need to consider rerolling. Aps is a slight problem, I'll give some of you that. Hell, a high aps sin can and will beat me to **** if I dunno what I'm doing. R9 or NPC'd out. All I gotta say is that most toons that use aps rely heavily on that aps, so you have to find your classes stun lock. You gotta learn your skills, know your skills and be able to put them in a combo that benefits you and your playstyle. In closing, stop wondering whose gear is better and get out there and find ways around it. Where there's a will there is ALWAYS a way.

Casters, however, are a horse of a different color. Still not Godly. Just get out there and put what you've got to the test. You may surprise yourself.

R9's vs The not so well geared

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