A more logical solution to 5APS

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · February 2011

Being surprised from the comments that came with my suggestion as a solution to all this "5aps is overpowered" deal, I decided to make a thread about it to catch people's eyes (mainly the GMs that will pass it on to the devs?).

Please note, this indeed another thread relating to 5aps; please try not to troll too much in here.

As I've stated in the most recent of 5 APS solution threads, my solution I suggested to "fix" 5 APS, rather than to nerf it down to a lower cap, is to implement a simple check on a person's APS, and based on the amount, the accuracy will be nerfed to a certain extent, based on the weapon.

In simple proportional terms: As APS increases, accuracy decreases. A real life example can be applied to this. Unless you're extremely skilled, the faster you throw.. let's say darts at a dartboard, the lesser the chance of you hitting bullseye, or the general area. 5 throws per second to me = darts all over the wall.

I.E. Fists and claws would have a slower rate of decrease in accuracy with respect to APS, while daggers, which are mainly dex-based, will have a higher rate of decreases in accuracy.

This should be implemented so that with 5 APS on either claws, fists, or daggers, the accuracy would be relatively in the same range, regardless of dex. I'm saying this because strength boosts fists/claws' damage output while dexterity increases daggers'.

And in the other thread, people suggested using rings that add 50% accuracy, such as Misty Forest Rings, Sign of Frost: Chaos, or the R9 ring, to counter the decrease in accuracy. And as another person said in said thread, a 50% increase on a small amount of accuracy is still a small amount of accuracy.

I think this would work out as a pretty decent balance. Missing hits still gains you chi, meaning permaspark is still there, but it also balances the damage output such that 5aps isn't doing all the damage, lower aps people still hit often, non-aps based people won't be affected much at all, and mage classes wouldn't be affected.

Let me know what you all think.

b:bye

Kaste - Sanctuary · February 2011

Where is the point of being 5.0 then?

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · February 2011

I will get back to the people who replied early later as I have errands to run!

But in short terms, the point is to still be an effective class, while having more balance to the game. Of course other things should be changed as well, such as having the damage to the ? bosses increased, and so on.

The accuracy decrease wouldn't be THAT extreme so that you'd miss 4 out of the 5 hits per second. But just enough to discourage people to roll 5aps.

I mean.. barbs are nearly extinct on my server.

Kaste - Sanctuary · February 2011

LOL if you miss 4 out of 5 hits, you have 1 APS = as fast as a Pole nonsparked b:bye

Vitenka - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOL if you miss 4 out of 5 hits, you have 1 APS = as fast as a Pole nonsparked b:bye

Yes, hence saying it shouldn't be that bad.

I don't think anyone minds 5aps, which after all requires expensive gear, being better than 1aps with cheap gear.
What people mind is it being about a hundred times better.

The exact amount of accuracy reduction would need careful tweaking - but I actually think this could work.

The problem of "Ok, I debuff this mob? Now you're basically never going to miss" would also need fixing, sadly. I'm not sure how that would rebalance things.

It would also have a problem that people would want to use the slowest possible weapons if they want to use skills at all, to avoid missing. That would be kind of odd.

SilversMoon - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOL if you miss 4 out of 5 hits, you have 1 APS = as fast as a Pole nonsparked b:bye

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

The accuracy decrease wouldn't be THAT extreme so that you'd miss 4 out of the 5 hits.

The point is, 5aps was never really supposed to be the only goal to the game, it's was supposedly one of many, but the way it was designed allowed it to be exploited.
So.. it should infact be nerfed, so ppl would actually consider different end game plans,
other than max aps.

Kaste - Sanctuary · February 2011

Then think about all of them who got it for hundreds of dollars. What are they going to say?

SilversMoon - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »

Then think about all of them who got it for hundreds of dollars. What are they going to say?

Eh, ppl will always whine and moan,
but what they don't realize is, if the game is heading for a dead end..
What good will be the 100's of dollars spent anyways?

Plus, they'd still be substantially stronger than the low aps wielders.
But, that'll also inspire them to explore more game choices other than whoring aps, which's become very boring.

Kaste - Sanctuary · February 2011

SilversMoon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Eh, ppl will always whine and moan,
but what they don't realize is, if the game is heading for a dead end..
What good will be the 100's of dollars spent anyways?

Plus, they'd still be substantially stronger than the low aps wielders.
But, that'll also inspire them to explore more game choices other than whoring aps, which's become very boring.

True, people will always QQ around. But in case of a huge 5 APS nerf, it would actually be correct. In most cases of QQ, people cry because they want more fashion, or are too stupid to get their ****ing client working. But nerfing something that is already that spread out, would result in massive negative feedback/RQs.

zizoun · February 2011

It's more easy than that.... PWE won't nerf aps after all the dollars they got from it, that would give them tons of complains + is not nice to pay lots for something godlike that afterwards gets ridiculous bad.

A simple fix that would give mage classes more oportunities to be valorated and PWE keep the balance ingame + more cash for those who want to pay is make -chan stuff. I'm not talking about % talking about -
So something that works the same as APS but just for skills in mage classes.

I bet their devs are smart enough to calculate and make something balanced for mage classes that gets close to the damage of 5aps in bosses. Everyone happy and the possibility to have another option to endgame.

Renza - Raging Tide · February 2011

lol @ 5aps being expensive, i think most people, if not all, just insert there CC and charge zen to buy 5aps gear, 5aps is just for the *loliwantztobepro* players that expects to be good,

5aps should never of existed in the first place, the only way casters can counter is if they have -90% casting time and as far as i see, players with -cast gear generally seems to reach the 30-40% zone and that's a very small portion of players, unlike aps which is nearly every 95-101 player.

arenkar · February 2011

bah all stop QQing... haven't u seen uncannies costs a lot less than some time ago? Did u wonder why? cause with 5 APS people,farming them has started to be more simple. Secondly, if u REALLY feel so bad, reroll . The things are making the game dieing is all these complainings u all are making. U feel useless ? roll another class or quite game, that's easy. If they nerf 5 APS, 5 Aps people will start to QQ too, so no point PWCN will nerf it (also because heavy cashshoppers do it to get high aps).

arenkar · February 2011

ah and i add, why magic classes don't cashshop ah APS people do? They are 5 APS cause they spent a lot on this game, if u want to balance it, spend a lot too and get - channeling items and start oneshotting people... that's all !

ZilCaVanz - Lost City · February 2011

what solution?, there is no problem, move along.

Kaste - Sanctuary · February 2011

ZilCaVanz - Lost City wrote: »

what solution?, there is no problem, move along.

b:bye

zizoun · February 2011

arenkar wrote: »

bah all stop QQing... haven't u seen uncannies costs a lot less than some time ago? Did u wonder why? cause with 5 APS people,farming them has started to be more simple. Secondly, if u REALLY feel so bad, reroll . The things are making the game dieing is all these complainings u all are making. U feel useless ? roll another class or quite game, that's easy. If they nerf 5 APS, 5 Aps people will start to QQ too, so no point PWCN will nerf it (also because heavy cashshoppers do it to get high aps).

ok that was stupid... really

So I have to play with a class that I don't like because to farm high instances they only pick ppl with aps. And also someone with aps takes like half of the time than me on doing it. Who cares about the prices of few things if you can't enjoy the class you like??

It's stupid to spend like 3 times more cash in a class that won't even be half as good as aps, learn some maths or is that so hard to understand for minds like yours?

Nerfing APS is not the solution, the solution is making other magic classes bit closer to the dps of one of this op classes.

arenkar · February 2011

i wrote : if u don't like it, reroll OR quite game, simple

SilversMoon - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Aside from all the useless comments.

A game bringing as much money as PW.
It's economic side and the game's maturing cycle should be studied thoroughly, by the game devs or whomever works with them.
Because, as much money as they made, they "still" want to make more. And essential to doing so, they have to make sure the game doesn't hit the decline phase, aka; they can't let the game die, until they have consumed every employable possibility.
Because every game, reaches a point where it dies slowly, if nothing is done to prevent that.

So in essence, it doesn't matter if alot of ppl rage, or even quit due to some balancing changes. Because, if they don't do them. Sooner or later, the game fizzles out and dies.
And evidently if that happens, what good will the consent of players really do them, when they won't pay a buck?
It's what's known as the greater good, or just simply renovating of the life cycle of the game.

It might be a game to the players, but it's business to the developers, and they should know better than seek quick rapid profit, that'll result in killing the game they strived to make.

RouxLouka - Dreamweaver · February 2011

To be honest, the cost of aps is not a valid argument against nerfing it. PWE already brought the cost of rank 8 from $2000 to $72.

Valrond - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Heya

I didnt post in any apsqq thread b4 cause i needed time to check things and think about it
Im from HT server, so i rly dont understand why ppl qq about it

5.0 was always here just when server was young was damn harder get it especialy w/o pack spam. So nerf aps now its unfair imo i belvie game should go ahead and devs should work on fix/uprages but nerfing aps only cause lot of ppl got it its stupidity
All u saying cahshopers keep this game alive cause charage $$$. Most of them doing it for better gears ( refine/aps ) so if aps got nerfed its like kick in face to all ppl who spent dollars on that game, they ll RQ , admins ll lost $from them and game ll die , rly die.

Also i dont understand why u crying. At HT its lot of aps ppl, heavyCS pkers , causal players, free players. Yeah.Lot of ppl ve some -int, but also lot of ppl dont ve it or just a bit like only FC gold fist. So whats prob? If u r wizi and cant find sqad cause they wana only aps ppl why u dont make your own sqad? Its lot of ppl around who dont ve int cause they r axe bms , barbs, mages . Why u just dont make own sqad for nirv ? U can take ppl what u wnat. There is no rule - u must be -int to go nirv. Same like FF- between 80-90 was hard get ff sqad as wizi for me. What i did? I just made my own sqads. After ppl noticed im not so stupid they add me to FL and was easier get sqads.
If u wana sqad like barb/cleric/veno/wizi/bm/archer w/o - int where is prob? Its still lot of ppl with that kind toons, and they r happy with it.

So 5APS right...
For pvp? yeah sin r OP but they always were . They deal dedly dmg but also dying fast, i saw lot of ppl 'eating' sins in pvp , ofc heavyCS sin vs casual player = win but CS vs CS? its bit harder . Also 5.0 dying fast when they meet pro enemy

5aps for farming?
iknow barbs and bms with not great gears who spent whole days in tt to get coins, or duo with cleric . yeah 5.0 can farm easier but also u can do it w/o int too . Grab some ppl from fac or FL and make TTruns - good fun with friends + coins
5.0 farmers killing mats price? Servers r old. Ppl ve tons for mats/gears from tt thats why price r low, young serv is one thing old its somthin diffrent.

And dont forget. To be aps u need spent lot of coins. herc now is about 90-100m
even 4.0 its like few hercs ( i dont think about archers with 3* fist with -int)...
Just look lunar weap ( cheapest way) + robe+ tt99 + nirv pants/tome = tons of coins.
For sin even more cause nirv dagger its 'bit expensive'
So yeah some1 ll spend like 300-400m to farm TT >.<
Its too many mats on market and thats all imo

I worked hard on my stuff. To get first coins b4 i start merchanting i spent lot of hours at farm dq and later tt with sqad to make first serious moneys
I ve aps toons and magic toons and i like them all
When im wizi i dont cyring about int sqads. Just looking for more ppl and playing

Only way to make game more balanced its some chan stuff to make mages more powerfull in pve
And .. i rly dont understand why ppl qq cant get spots in sqads....MAKE OWN SQADS.
Buy teles/find fac/make some friendships. U dont need be 5.0 to ve good fun, but also if u still qq about no sqads at forums ull never found it in game.
like ex
ppl sapming with wizi 9x LFS FF 90+
or veno or sin or whatever
and spaming 2h with lfs. just move your lazy *** and BUILD SQAD
if no1 need my wizi/veno/sin i just LFM and after 5-20min im in FF.

Okeano - Harshlands · February 2011

Oh look, this thread again.

Do you know how many millions I have spent on my BM's gears just to keep up with the ones who spent $72? Farming doesn't even matter anymore. Spend $72 on rep, use rank gears and hyper to 100, faceroll. b:bye

Nikit - Harshlands · February 2011

zizoun wrote: »

It's more easy than that.... PWE won't nerf aps after all the dollars they got from it, that would give them tons of complains + is not nice to pay lots for something godlike that afterwards gets ridiculous bad.

A simple fix that would give mage classes more oportunities to be valorated and PWE keep the balance ingame + more cash for those who want to pay is make -chan stuff. I'm not talking about % talking about -
So something that works the same as APS but just for skills in mage classes.

I bet their devs are smart enough to calculate and make something balanced for mage classes that gets close to the damage of 5aps in bosses. Everyone happy and the possibility to have another option to endgame.

^i agree this...let 5 aps as it is and give some comparable damage to mages....

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2011

What is up with pre-endgame people who feel this need to poke at something they don't understand? You people are still spouting 5aps nerf seriously? Get your cheap rank and GTFO.

You still don't realize it? The Nirvana that people have been farming for over a year in these so called "APS exclusive" squads (which is bull ****) have been rolled pretty damn hard by the rank sales. Notice most of the people who want APS nerfed are pre-lvl 100 people who have NO CLUE. It's just jealousy now is what it is.

budi66 · February 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

What is up with pre-endgame people who feel this need to poke at something they don't understand? You people are still spouting 5aps nerf seriously? Get your cheap rank and GTFO.

You still don't realize it? The Nirvana that people have been farming for over a year in these so called "APS exclusive" squads (which is bull ****) have been rolled pretty damn hard by the rank sales. Notice most of the people who want APS nerfed are pre-lvl 100 people who have NO CLUE. It's just jealousy now is what it is.

But the BM R8 is useless b:shutup ...

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2011

but God of Frenzy R9 axe...

Okeano - Harshlands · February 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

but God of Frenzy R9 axe...

If you can live long enough to get close to the R9 Archer that is.

LeFEMME - Lost City · February 2011

What? -chan for mages n others? NO WAY! Better nerfed APS!!! I had a experience with "no time chan" mages n cleric .... n the result u can see here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gYPCpr4Tqk

b:shockedb:shockedb:shockedb:shocked

TheDan - Sanctuary · February 2011

These threads are so stupid; asking for balance between different classes should NEVER happen. Just quit trying to balance what shouldn't be balanced. That destroys the uniqueness and point of having different classes. Each class excels in a different category.

There's a reason why casters excel in PvP, because they're long ranged, whereas melees are stuck fighting from a 5-10 meter radius. If you want all classes to balanced, then melees should be balanced so they can attack from 30 meters away too. /faillogic

There's also a reason why melees are supposed to excel in DPS in PvE; so they can be the tanks. I fail to see the logic behind letting robes be "balanced" in the DPS department, and letting them pull aggro from the tanks that should be tanking world bosses, TT bosses, etc. If you ask for balanced DPS, then you better be prepared to be the tanker and survive hits of 5K + on HA, about 10K+ on AA. Aha yeah, that's smart.

So in short, stop moaning about balance that should never happen; casters are better in pvp, melees are better for pve... There's logistical reasons why it should stay that way. Go roll a farming character for PvE, and PvP on a caster character. That's how it was meant to be.

LeFEMME - Lost City · February 2011

Just APS ppl defend APS lol, they're so fail

_Equinox_ - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Nikit - Harshlands wrote: »

i agree this...let 5 aps as it is and give some comparable damage to mages....

Alright, since you're from Harshlands, let me give you a HARSHLANDS example of how giving "comparable" damage would do...

You know Nurfed. Of COURSE you do. He's Nurfed. Everybody and their mom knows Nurfed.
Imagine if you will, Nurfed with INCREASED (as if having Rank 9 wasn't ALREADY terrible enough) chanelling time,
Wait for it....

Wait for it....

Yeah. I thought so.

Better yet, let's try urDian! Rank 9 Psychic. Never seen him PvP? Sit around West Arch on a blue name. Wait for him to come, and watch everybody die with one solid AoE. He's the reason why people are terrified of Ranked Psychics on other servers, including mine. (Which is why I try and avoid Thanos as much as I possibly can, even on my sin. >.>;)

EVERYBODY thinks -chan is the answer. Ironically enough....these are the SAME people who all have APS characters....and don't have a high level caster.
No...-chan isn't the answer. All it does is make us cast quicker...and how exactly does that help, when an Assassin can still Maze Step us to our doom?

No....no.

You don't see people screaming for -chan in WC. In fact, the only classes who even really care about -chan are those who aren't Psychics. Wizards need it the most....Clerics second, Venomancers, and lastly Psychics.

The only purpose I see of it is for PWE to stuff the cash into Forsaken World, people who are too lazy to actually do bosses like we did in the old days of (real) PWI (where you actually had to take time to kill a boss), or people too selfish to find a squad to share drops with while farming instances.

APS needs a nurf. End of story.

Ruxal - Harshlands · February 2011

1) Increase the threat/agro generation of Barb skills.
2) Nerf the chi gain of normal physical attacks.
3) Decrease the magic defense/resistance of boss mobs
4) Increase the hp of boss mobs
5) Have a mix of both strong physical and magical attack bosses in all instances
6) In instances where there groups of mobs e.g. parts of fc put a mob capable of detecting stealthed sins. (could as well put this one in here though its not aps related)

A more logical solution to 5APS

Comments

Categories