Archer + BP
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so, more exactly, you're saying what?____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Make Blood Paint universal b:puzzled
dunno why every has to throw in their 2 penneth worth and moan about who DD's the highest...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I didnt wanna say this but. Archer = long range! now use your god damn bow and get rid of the stupid fist. I went into nv with an archer he said to a veno , hey you should do the black wing. I am like why is that he is like cause i am using a fist and she has long range.
If you want bp from me , i will trade my bp if you trade me your winged shell or +14 extra when using bow mastery and extra damage using a bow cause sins can use bow too. But we dont get any bonuses for that.
My bp no little puny wanna bm/sin fist archer is getting it till i get my long range + extra dmg using bow ability!.0 -
SilentGodai - Lost City wrote: »I went into nv with an archer he said to a veno , hey you should do the black wing. I am like why is that he is like cause i am using a fist and she has long range.
well that archer is stupid, whenever i squad i just have everyone bunch up shoulder to shoulder and i get the black; auto target the black hit it resume dd on boss. That way we get max dd and nobody is singled out to do them[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
We already have archers with BP...they're called Assassins.b:lipcurl0
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Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »Make Blood Paint universal b:puzzled
dunno why every has to throw in their 2 penneth worth and moan about who DD's the highest...
Make bow mastery universal.Some people risk to employ me
Some people live to destroy me
Either way they die0 -
For Aps
1.) Assassin
2.) BM
3.) Archer...
Assuming the class's all have same refines and roughly the same gear. And say the archer's stat enough str to make the claws more effective, they lose damage and crit with there bow and might as well roll HA and be a BM without the effectiveness of dragonsb:shutupAhira is a spyb:cryb:cryb:cry0 -
Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »Just like clerics are not necessary? because sins can solo FC they can just have a squad of sins solo Nirvana aswell and guess what Mystics are gonna wipe out clerics even further, so i await you're QQ
And we arnt lost, unlike wizzies archers can addapt and take on 5.0 and still DD as much as your sins and bm's. Archers imo are one of the most fun and versatile classes you can play because we rock with a bow and we rock with fists.
you can not and will not ever do more damage then a bm or sin while equiped with claws or fist the bonus received for haveing a proper mastery of the weapon far outweighs your ability to do damage archers shouldnt even be able to wear claws or fist because it clearly makes then fussy like a bad child your toys should be taken away[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]ty mystic man for the sig0 -
Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »dunno what you're smoking, but talk to your hommie to get some clean stuff. This mixed up stuff that you're doing now seems to have side effects.
Mah homie's da man! He only hooks Ninny up with the best stuff b:pleased
But for liek, realz. Clawchers>bms
Of all the bms I run nirv with that have similar refines, I end up tanking 90% of the time with my archer. And no, I don't mean because of my perfectly timed sparks to avoid the seal when possible, I mean because she out dds all the bms i run with.
Most recent and concrete example I can give you being a 99 key boss we did the other day. A bm friend and my archer were the only fisters in squad. He rushes in and starts tanking, I start attacking a few seconds later, set up a macro and go get myself a drink. By the time I came back I had aggro and was tanking the boss (keep in mind he does not seal and does not reset aggro at any point). Both of us have the same attack speed, and both of us have +5 deicides. Granted, mine are two sockets, but I REALLY doubt that extra 40 attack from a perfect garnet gives me that much of an edge.
Again, this is personal observation from doing 4-5 nirvanas a day for the last few months.
You drew your conclusion that archers are lolzwut compared to bms based on what exactly?Cimon - Harshlands wrote: »you can not and will not ever do more damage then a bm or sin while equiped with claws or fist the bonus received for haveing a proper mastery of the weapon far outweighs your ability to do damage archers shouldnt even be able to wear claws or fist because it clearly makes then fussy like a bad child your toys should be taken away
Sin? No. Bm? Easy. Archers are so fussy they tanked harpy wraith. Did you? :O
Nirvana bosses tickle with a good cleric. Go be butthurt moar
b:dirty0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »BP only works for melee attacks. It's pretty dumb to how racist the BP buff is. Clerics can buff archers with increase magic attack buff despite archers have no skills at all that use magic attack. Archers meanwhile have a lot of useable skills in melee including attacks but no BP.
You are wrong there is one metal skill that hits as magic as well..how do I knw...because it didn't hit so hard on a increased magic resist mob..0 -
BlaZinBoy - Heavens Tear wrote: »You are wrong there is one metal skill that hits as magic as well..how do I knw...because it didn't hit so hard on a increased magic resist mob..
she said "in melee" (meaning while using fists), not that it was physical dmg[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »Mah homie's da man! He only hooks Ninny up with the best stuff b:pleased
But for liek, realz. Clawchers>bms
Of all the bms I run nirv with that have similar refines, I end up tanking 90% of the time with my archer. And no, I don't mean because of my perfectly timed sparks to avoid the seal when possible, I mean because she out dds all the bms i run with.
Most recent and concrete example I can give you being a 99 key boss we did the other day. A bm friend and my archer were the only fisters in squad. He rushes in and starts tanking, I start attacking a few seconds later, set up a macro and go get myself a drink. By the time I came back I had aggro and was tanking the boss (keep in mind he does not seal and does not reset aggro at any point). Both of us have the same attack speed, and both of us have +5 deicides. Granted, mine are two sockets, but I REALLY doubt that extra 40 attack from a perfect garnet gives me that much of an edge.
Again, this is personal observation from doing 4-5 nirvanas a day for the last few months.
You drew your conclusion that archers are lolzwut compared to bms based on what exactly?
Archers are so fussy they tanked harpy wraith. Did you? :O
Nirvana bosses tickle with a good cleric. Go be butthurt moar
You most likely have aggro because you party BMs with lower aps. If you go Nirvana with some random squad most BMs tends to be 3.33/4.0, while all archers are always 5.0 since they get free -01 int from the top. So you end up tanking.
You might also end-up taking aggro from a 5.0 BM if you manage to resists a few seals or when he stops DDing to use HF. Than he needs a few seconds to get perma sparked again. It really doesn't have anything to do with archers dealing more dmg.
Think my archer deals about 15% less dmg than my BM at 5.0, with same gear and same CV-Claws +8. I honestly thought it would be more since the BM has fist mastery and +350 strength. But triple spark kinda evens it out a bit. So archers are definitely not lolzwut compare to BMs in terms of DPS, but no one can deny the fact that BMs are better DDs and better tanks.0 -
Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »Mah homie's da man! He only hooks Ninny up with the best stuff b:pleased
But for liek, realz. Clawchers>bms
Of all the bms I run nirv with that have similar refines, I end up tanking 90% of the time with my archer. And no, I don't mean because of my perfectly timed sparks to avoid the seal when possible, I mean because she out dds all the bms i run with.
Most recent and concrete example I can give you being a 99 key boss we did the other day. A bm friend and my archer were the only fisters in squad. He rushes in and starts tanking, I start attacking a few seconds later, set up a macro and go get myself a drink. By the time I came back I had aggro and was tanking the boss (keep in mind he does not seal and does not reset aggro at any point). Both of us have the same attack speed, and both of us have +5 deicides. Granted, mine are two sockets, but I REALLY doubt that extra 40 attack from a perfect garnet gives me that much of an edge.
Again, this is personal observation from doing 4-5 nirvanas a day for the last few months.
You drew your conclusion that archers are lolzwut compared to bms based on what exactly?
Sin? No. Bm? Easy. Archers are so fussy they tanked harpy wraith. Did you? :O
Nirvana bosses tickle with a good cleric. Go be butthurt moar
its simply imposable the fact you can lie and say you took aggro from a bm is laughable especially with same gear you do like damn near no damage with claws or fists bms have mastery and do more damage then you do with fists period your not fooling anyone you dont need bloodpaint because you cant tank over any of the other tanking classes curently go get your bow and quit QQing jeesh nabs theese days[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]ty mystic man for the sig0 -
Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »Mah homie's da man! He only hooks Ninny up with the best stuff b:pleased
But for liek, realz. Clawchers>bms
Of all the bms I run nirv with that have similar refines, I end up tanking 90% of the time with my archer. And no, I don't mean because of my perfectly timed sparks to avoid the seal when possible, I mean because she out dds all the bms i run with.
Most recent and concrete example I can give you being a 99 key boss we did the other day. A bm friend and my archer were the only fisters in squad. He rushes in and starts tanking, I start attacking a few seconds later, set up a macro and go get myself a drink. By the time I came back I had aggro and was tanking the boss (keep in mind he does not seal and does not reset aggro at any point). Both of us have the same attack speed, and both of us have +5 deicides. Granted, mine are two sockets, but I REALLY doubt that extra 40 attack from a perfect garnet gives me that much of an edge.
Again, this is personal observation from doing 4-5 nirvanas a day for the last few months.
You drew your conclusion that archers are lolzwut compared to bms based on what exactly?
Sin? No. Bm? Easy. Archers are so fussy they tanked harpy wraith. Did you? :O
Nirvana bosses tickle with a good cleric. Go be butthurt moar
well, I'm not here to school close minded nubs, so I don't care, have it your way, your archer is za greatest DPS-er in the world.
Just not PWI world.____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »You most likely have aggro because you party BMs with lower aps. If you go Nirvana with some random squad most BMs tends to be 3.33/4.0, while all archers are always 5.0 since they get free -01 int from the top. So you end up tanking.
I know full well how to determine aps by looking at gear
The bms I had in mind aren't randoms, both they and my archer are 4,0 atm (I went for the tinder lunar cape which i resold coz i got 6 dex/2sockets so lost the 0,05 there but thats another story xD)You might also end-up taking aggro from a 5.0 BM if you manage to resists a few seals or when he stops DDing to use HF. Than he needs a few seconds to get perma sparked again. It really doesn't have anything to do with archers dealing more dmg.
Aggro resets after every seal, and yes, of course the first person to hit the boss afterwards is going to get hit. That's not what i meant.Think my archer deals about 15% less dmg than my BM at 5.0, with same gear and same CV-Claws +8. I honestly thought it would be more since the BM has fist mastery and +350 strength. But triple spark kinda evens it out a bit. So archers are definitely not lolzwut compare to BMs in terms of DPS, but no one can deny the fact that BMs are better DDs and better tanks.
15% damage difference is pretty negligible. Not sure if you accounted crits into your equation or not, but its worth noting that an archer has nearly double the crit rate, which is where our dd potential comes from (35% vs what - 20ish for a bm with deicides dex req?). Of course archers hit weaker in raw damage, that's a given, but they also crit nearly twice as much. As for tanking, I can tank nirvana just fine on her. Of course bms are better tanks, I never argued that. They have higher hp, twice the def and can get bp.
All I was saying is that archer dd is not behind bm dd one bit. Glad to see someone else agrees. *points to the two nooblet trolls down below*Cimon - Harshlands wrote: »its simply imposable the fact you can lie and say you took aggro from a bm is laughable especially with same gear you do like damn near no damage with claws or fists bms have mastery and do more damage then you do with fists period your not fooling anyone you dont need bloodpaint because you cant tank over any of the other tanking classes curently go get your bow and quit QQing jeesh nabs theese days
Would you like me to fraps it? Yes you have fist mastery, I'm well aware of that. Archers have ~15% more crit rate and blazing arrow to compensate, which even things wells out. Like I said, go be butthurt moar if you have nothing to contribute. Keep facerolling the keyboard with your 5aps, your posts make it sound like it's all your capable of.
Argumentation definitely isn't one of your strong suites. O noz u lie lolol nub archer!!shft+1Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »well, I'm not here to school close minded nubs, so I don't care, have it your way, your archer is za greatest DPS-er in the world.
Just not PWI world.
I figured as much. Thanks for the close minded nub btw, it made my day!
b:dirty0 -
well theres no point in asking for BP, ive asked several sins and they all refuse me, their mean and selfish b:cry0
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im for giving archers BP..
an archers job is to maximise there DD damage to benefit the squad and using fist to get 5.0 is the way to do that.
giving archers bp would:
1. make them less squishy.
2. give the cleric more time to react in aggro change.
3. re-balance archers out again at end game.. having the ability to use 5.0 with BP + 30m+ Range is incredible and very nice to have.
4. sage spark + BP at 5.0 would be a huge benefit for them and more people would start playing them again. re balancing the game back out abit so not everyone is useing sins or bms
5. typing this is making me want to go play my archer again and id love for him to be able to have BP.
i know GMs wont read this but other people will and the more people that read it the more people will agree and want it as a change. which would then make the GMs look at it and who knows might actually pass it on to the Devs to put it into the game.
My Vote is a Yes to give Archers BP when using fist/claws.0 -
NoXide_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »im for giving archers BP..
an archers job is to maximise there DD damage to benefit the squad and using fist to get 5.0 is the way to do that.
giving archers bp would:
1. make them less squishy.
2. give the cleric more time to react in aggro change.
3. re-balance archers out again at end game.. having the ability to use 5.0 with BP + 30m+ Range is incredible and very nice to have.
4. sage spark + BP at 5.0 would be a huge benefit for them and more people would start playing them again. re balancing the game back out abit so not everyone is useing sins or bms
5. typing this is making me want to go play my archer again and id love for him to be able to have BP.
i know GMs wont read this but other people will and the more people that read it the more people will agree and want it as a change. which would then make the GMs look at it and who knows might actually pass it on to the Devs to put it into the game.
My Vote is a Yes to give Archers BP when using fist/claws.
Your opinion on how they best help a squad, and how they were designed to help a squad are 2 different things. b:byeBladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »Your opinion on how they best help a squad, and how they were designed to help a squad are 2 different things. b:bye
1. if archers werent designed to use fists why do they have meele skills that can be used holding fist/claw weapons.
2. archers were designed to do maximum damage useing fists is how to do that these days
3. how they best help and how they do help is literally the same thing when talking about an archer. with bows in pre 99 lvls they do tuns of damage and with fists at 99+ they still do loads of damage. adding BP is just an extra benefit for archers.
your just mad your class fails and you dont want archers to have something that helps them abit more.
now go troll somewhere else you useless barb b:bye0 -
NoXide_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »1. if archers werent designed to use fists why do they have meele skills that can be used holding fist/claw weapons.
2. archers were designed to do maximum damage useing fists is how to do that these days
3. how they best help and how they do help is literally the same thing when talking about an archer. with bows in pre 99 lvls they do tuns of damage and with fists at 99+ they still do loads of damage. adding BP is just an extra benefit for archers.
your just mad your class fails and you dont want archers to have something that helps them abit more.
now go troll somewhere else you useless barb b:bye
My "useless" barb has already accomplished more in this game then all of your silly chars combined.
You're a ranged DD now deal with it. b:byeBladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »My "useless" barb has already accomplished more in this game then all of your silly chars combined.
You're a ranged DD now deal with it. b:bye
o really please tell me 1 thing you have done that i havnt on any of my chars
did you get to lvl 80+ on 2 chars before BHs came out? no i very much dont think so and seeming as you didnt id say thats an achievement on its own that you could never do
as i said before If archers were pure range DDs why the *** do they have skills they can use with fists.. Learn to read before commenting does tend to help0 -
Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »Random stuff
Hey. It is often better to show than tell. Check the links and do the math yourself. You will find that archers do on average 15%-ish (Not sure exactly how much much blazing adds, but I know its not too much) less damage than a BM with equally refined weapon.
Archer
Blademaster
This is taken into account the crits (12% higher critrate = 12% more damage on average), if we were to disregard crits then archers do about 30% less damage.
Do some research before you speak please, and thank you.0 -
It dosent matter who out DD's who, this thread is to support the use of BP across all classes.
please keep it On-Topic[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ok say they decide to give archers BP, I want Bow mastery on my assassin plus the ability to attack from 30m if i decide
Ahira is a spyb:cryb:cryb:cry0 -
I'm all for BP applying to Archers.
But only archers using Xbows/slingshots/bows.0 -
So basically archers want BP so they can be useful with their aps like sins and BMS?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I know what your thinking.0
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ResMePls - Heavens Tear wrote: »So basically archers want BP so they can be useful with their aps like sins and BMS?
Sin's/Bm's are only "usefull" because they can get BP, take away BP from a BM and he is useless then
...if what you say is true_Nuriko_ - Lost City wrote: »Ok say they decide to give archers BP, I want Bow mastery on my assassin plus the ability to attack from 30m if i decide
No because, BP is a skill for melee's. Both Venomancers and Archers are both melee classes in todays world, i dont think you will find an archer who does not use fists today
and as i said earlier, BP does NOT make you stronger or hit harder, it just allows you to semi heal yourself[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »Sin's/Bm's are only "usefull" because they can get BP, take away BP from a BM and he is useless then
...if what you say is true
So you're saying that a 20k hp 5.0 bm can't tank anything and should just sit in a corner? And you're also saying that you now want to be considered a melee class (primarily) and you want them to then take away all your bow masteries and strip all those ranged skills away from you? If that's the case then sure I'll accept it. What you archers fail to see is, if -int was completely stripped from this game bm/veno (in fox)/barbs/sins still go up to mobs and hit melee as it stands you wouldn't, thus you're not a melee class and you don't get BP. Sorry, that's the way it will always be and trying to argue anything else is stupid.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »thus you're not a melee class and you don't get BP.
Can you please explain to me why Archers get -int Rank tops? i wonder if it was a coincidence that Dev's did that because they thought we may use fists aslo?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Actually i know plenty of Archers who dont use fist lol, just because this is an aps game now, doesnt mean everyone does it. My Bm happens to be a vit axe build, you know why? Because i felt like it lol. There are people who play this game for fun, not to be the best and omgwtfpwn boss's within one demon spark cycle. Fact is Archers were designed to have bow's thats why the MAJORITY of there skills are based around them. Maybe GM's would be nice and give the archers a BP like skill, that ONLY works when there using a bow Ahira is a spyb:cryb:cryb:cry0
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