Archer + BP

Traz - Dreamweaver

The only other class that should really get my BP is venos because well....they were designed for melee attacking. The rest of you can GTFO of my BP. b:bye

Tearle - Dreamweaver

I think every class should be buffed by bloodpaint, but it shouldn't affect ranged skills. So for an archer/etc that uses fists or a veno in fox form, it would be nice.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Tearle - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think every class should be buffed by bloodpaint, but it shouldn't affect ranged skills. So for an archer/etc that uses fists or a veno in fox form, it would be nice.

You're right, lets make it super beneficial for ALL classes to restat HA and just be -int drones. b:pleased

Tearle - Dreamweaver

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You're right, lets make it super beneficial for ALL classes to restat HA and just be -int drones. b:pleased

If I can get a magic attack buff I don't see the big problem with it. People want to restat to be "Ha -int drones" Go for it. People should play how they want. I don't really care if its AA HA or LA or some other A b:surrender

Knownase - Heavens Tear

BP, makes soloing stuff all the better.

BLOOOOOOOOOOD!

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Why do you care how people build their characters? How does it possibly effect you. If you don't like archers using claws instead of bows then make an archer and stick to bows.

I don't kick them from squads when I see that they didn't stick to one path, and I sure as hell don't try and convince them to use the weapons that allow them to actually use their own skills.

Like I said in that post you quoted, I am just tired of everyone having 5.0, using fists/claws to kill the bosses/mobs. Though I do indeed like it just as much as anyone else when the bosses go down ridiculously fast.

PS: For the record I have one of every class, and will be like that when the expansion comes.

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

No offense to archers but I think the class is OP enough already. OP in mass pvp unlike the other 5 aps classes and still good in PVE,just saying. b:surrender
That's ofc if we were to talk about fairness towards classes but then again it's PWI so nvm that .

I guess I'll support the idea of giving archers bp on fists & claws since it wouldn't do any1 harm :P

Dandelyn - Heavens Tear

I always felt that bloodpaint should buff all melee weapons, regarless of the class that is holding it. If you switch to a non bloodpaint buffable weapon then you lose the buff.

All classes should get bloodpaint, but it only should activate when using melee attacks.

ResMePls - Heavens Tear

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »

thats why you have no friends jha b:bye

id out DD ur bm and sin anyday

Hmm lets see *puts stats of 5aps R8 +12 assassin in* *Then puts stats of fist R9 +12 archer in*......Um nope assassin wins again .

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Dandelyn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I always felt that bloodpaint should buff all melee weapons, regarless of the class that is holding it. If you switch to a non bloodpaint buffable weapon then you lose the buff.

All classes should get bloodpaint, but it only should activate when using melee attacks.

Makes no sense. There is a valid melee build for Veno, and as I QQed earlier, there is an entire pair of Melee trees for Veno, and you don't have to equip or use a Melee weapon for either tree. Veno gets 'Melee Mastery' as a skill, which increases melee damage, and in Fox Form, a 120% PDef bonus (150% for Sage).

If you glitch, you can make an APS fist HA Fox Veno with very high PDef that hits harder than an Archer with fists, due to Melee Mastery. 4.0 = permasparked.

Yet, you can't get BP on a character that actually has two melee trees, and Melee mastery... So why do you think a class that doesn't have any melee skill, save two (which are... Kinda magic cast-ish anyway), will be able to?

If that happens, and Venos are still left out in the bloodpaintless cold, and archers get it, I'm going to delete mine. And my Archer too, because it will be just as broken as Sins.

And if Fists go to BM only, then yay, they slightly fixed the game. Archers will QQ so very hard, including me, but overall, for the greater picture, it will slightly fix the game.

And honestly, they might as well class -restrict armor. It's fun, it's neat, but it broke the game too. HA Clerics are epic cool... But if I were a barb, there's no way in hell I would want one healing me as a tank barb during any kind of BH or FB run, ever, unless they're level 135, which at this rate, will take another 3 years to happen (level cap increase).

So whatever. We'll have to see what happens in the future... Could be good (TW rewards back, yes), could be bad (no rubberbanding fix, more packs, R10 for $3k or somethign similar, etc).

Dralighte - Harshlands

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »

last time i checked every class was able to produce physical melee attacks, venos even more so with fox form skills.

so... no, its not really (in your words)

its only availabe to selected classes

I guess you cant read. I give up v.v'

Finrah - Sanctuary

Roseary - Sanctuary wrote: »

No BP for you, stick to your gunz.

Can't agree more.

People should really stick to their class. I hate seeing APS venos, barbs, archers. I'm still waiting on APS wiz and psychics though. -_-

If you choose to wear fists when you're not meant to, and you become a APS build and stole aggro, then face the consequences of being either charm ***** or killed. No BP for you.

threepointone

Finrah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Can't agree more.

People should really stick to their class. I hate seeing APS venos, barbs, archers. I'm still waiting on APS wiz and psychics though. -_-

If you choose to wear fists when you're not meant to, and you become a APS build and stole aggro, then face the consequences of being either charm ***** or killed. No BP for you.

How does one define what a class is meant to do? Skills, sure, but if you can equip a bow or fists, why not? If people should "stick to their class", they would make all weapons class-specific. It allows for variety, and like the old saying goes; "if you can't beat 'em, join em'".

Ninnuam - Sanctuary

ResMePls - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hmm lets see *puts stats of 5aps R8 +12 assassin in* *Then puts stats of fist R9 +12 archer in*......Um nope assassin wins again .

Actually, I had the pleasure of running a Nirvana with 2 archers the other day. One had a +12 G15 Nirvana bow. The other had a +12 R9 bow. Both were stealing aggro from our 5aps DDs.

Of course, they can't stay perma-sparked that way, but for all intensive purposes, such bow dmg > 5aps claw damage.

And for the record, 5aps archer > 5aps bm, as far as dps is concerned. I know, I know. Fist mastery vs blazing arrow and crits. The latter wins.

Sins however are in a league of their own since daggers have 1) higher base damage than claws and 2) get their damage from the dex stat instead of str. In your case though a, r8 sin can't get 5 aps, so a G13/15 nirv dagger would far out-dps a r8 dagger. So kind of a bad example. Still, the sin would probably win. Bms and whatnot, wouldn't.

Oh and, big yes to bp being a SQUAD buff, instead of a 3 class buff. As mentioned earlier, barbs and bms can get mag attack buff, clerics and wizzies can get str buff, and squishies can get bramble. I don't see why this should be any different. Whether a person can utilize it should be up to their build however (meaning archers attacking at a rage and wizzies nuking from a distance wouldn't be getting any benefit from it unless they went melee).

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Finrah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Can't agree more.

People should really stick to their class. I hate seeing APS venos, barbs, archers. I'm still waiting on APS wiz and psychics though. -_-

If you choose to wear fists when you're not meant to, and you become a APS build and stole aggro, then face the consequences of being either charm ***** or killed. No BP for you.

Well... Archer is fine and all at 0.71 APS with a typical bow. But that kinda blows for endgame... I mean, really.

Archers do get the most interval gear with rank and such, IIRC... I'd rather have a 5.0 Bow than 5.0 fists. Not gonna happen though. I have no idea what a Bow or Slingshot tops out at, but my nub Archer has ventured above 1.0 with only wrists that have -.05, rank chest with -0.5, and a -.1 slingshot (hint: It requires RB or a genie skill, and Wind Shield isn't it).

Fists are fantastic when you're right next to the cleric, the tank is very far away, the other DD's are very far away, and something runs up and is about to 3 shot your cleric. You can whip out fists and grab aggro really fast, and prevent a party wipe. Or if something hits you with a movement lock stun, but you can still attack, fists do way more DPS than a bow at point blank, and the mana cost of using the two melee attacks Archers have... It's not worth it. Plus, unlike most other classes, you can actually use those two melee attacks with fists equipped.

I'd never build an archer around fists. I just use whatever works with my current stat points.

Myralis - Sanctuary

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fists are fantastic when you're right next to the cleric, the tank is very far away, the other DD's are very far away, and something runs up and is about to 3 shot your cleric.

True and you cant do this any better with a bow. We all know range of fists beats the range of a bow.
Who would need winged shell or wings of grace anyway to protect yourself.


Seriously, logic backwards? b:shocked

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

what i don't get is... why lay everything you have into attack power - yet you basically get 1-2 shotted by a boss when you try to melee on it. it just makes no sense to me at all. refine gear for more HP so you don't die as fast, or cut back you're dps so that someone more suited to tanking can do the job. thats kind of like... a wizard with 5k hp buffed with level 11 BKI using a +10 nature talker in Delta. He is going to get aggro regardless. it just makes no sense to be the one doing the most damage if you can't take the damage you get back from having aggro. on the topic of archers again.. blood paint would help I suppose, but then again.. if you went more str, less dex and built like a bm you'd be soloing nirvana once you had BP. Then you may as well be a BM, or ... if you like your LA gear and melee battle, a sin. I think honestly that the reason they only gave blood paint to 'sins, barbs, and BMs is because those were the only ones that were designed to be fully melee classes, as well as to keep the game diverse so that people didnt just make for example 5.0 wizards with BP.

side note.... for some odd reason i was able to hold aggro off a 5.0 archer tonight in Nirvana that had +5 nirvana fists, and I'm only using a +4 unparalleled brimstone edges.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »

And for the record, 5aps archer > 5aps bm, as far as dps is concerned. I know, I know. Fist mastery vs blazing arrow and crits. The latter wins.

dunno what you're smoking, but talk to your hommie to get some clean stuff. This mixed up stuff that you're doing now seems to have side effects.

NiightmareXz - Harshlands

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0

I just want BP on my archer. b:cry

Edit: Hai Zannie from like... page 4 xD

Roseary - Sanctuary

If you want to break Blood Paint down literally, Blademasters, Barbarians, and Assassins get the benefit because they are classes made to be up close and personal with mobs. They "should" be close enough to be in reach of the enemies blood and use it as paint for themselves. Archers attack from a distance, if you use claws thats all you but your class was made for distant fighting, Don't believe me check your skills. That goes for all the mage classes as well.

Jhalil - Heavens Tear

I used an eye of observation on your archer like 3 days ago, your unbuffed p.atk with your fists on is about half the amount on my sin's both lowest and highest p.atk o_o

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear

Yea lets not give BP to all the other classes, we can slowly watch all the Archers die out because they have re rolled to sins/BMs. There goes you're "balanced" game even more

Roseary - Sanctuary

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yea lets not give BP to all the other classes, we can slowly watch all the Archers die out because they have re rolled to sins/BMs. There goes you're "balanced" game even more

Archers are not necessary, they are just another DD class. Just like with Wizzys dying out, nothing of value was lost.

NiightmareXz - Harshlands

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yea lets not give BP to all the other classes, we can slowly watch all the Archers die out because they have re rolled to sins/BMs. There goes you're "balanced" game even more

+1

Anyway, we all have to adapt to the 5aps craze. Barbs either restat to claws or they roll Bm/Sin. Archers restat to claw/fists (with a rare few that stayed bow), or they roll a Bm/Sin. Is it so wrong to having to adapt and wanting something you could potentially /have/ because you are melee fighting? Honestly, if PW didn't want to give BP to every class, why make fists and claws an all class weapon?

And uh... when I restated to fists, I left enough dex to hold/do dmg with my bow so I could STA, barrage and be ranged if i need to (Harpies in FC anyone?) . That's my guess as to why the phys attack is so low on archers with fists. Well.. atleast it's the reason why /my/ attack is low with fists.

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear

Roseary - Sanctuary wrote: »

Archers are not necessary, they are just another DD class. Just like with Wizzys dying out, nothing of value was lost.

Just like clerics are not necessary? because sins can solo FC they can just have a squad of sins solo Nirvana aswell and guess what Mystics are gonna wipe out clerics even further, so i await you're QQ

And we arnt lost, unlike wizzies archers can addapt and take on 5.0 and still DD as much as your sins and bm's. Archers imo are one of the most fun and versatile classes you can play because we rock with a bow and we rock with fists.

Roseary - Sanctuary

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just like clerics are not necessary? because sins can solo FC they can just have a squad of sins solo Nirvana aswell and guess what Mystics are gonna wipe out clerics even further, so i await you're QQ

You said that like I have no choice but to play a cleric.b:chuckle

Jhalil - Heavens Tear

Ok ok, I'm reading this and I'm all for BP being an all class buff, but I have an archer, a BM, and an assassin. I still CAN NOT comprehend how anyone is saying archers out DD any similar APS class besides
barb? I'm pretty sure archers will still get 1-2 shot in Nirvana by a strong boss even with BP, not like they're healing themselves as much as an assassin or a BM is |:

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear

Jhalil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok ok, I'm reading this and I'm all for BP being an all class buff, but I have an archer, a BM, and an assassin. I still CAN NOT comprehend how anyone is saying archers out DD any similar APS class besides
barb? I'm pretty sure archers will still get 1-2 shot in Nirvana by a strong boss even with BP, not like they're healing themselves as much as an assassin or a BM is |:

hmm i was competing agro with a +11 decide using bm last night from Gold diggrz, he even got pissed off i kept getting agro

Inb4 omgthatbmmustbefail

im sorry Jha but unlike you who just ditches their character to follow the craze, i will prove that an origional class can be as good

Jhalil - Heavens Tear

As much as I doubt that, and even if I were to believe it there's still tons of factors, was your APS higher, was he sparked, was it right after random aggro? Was he a pure mage BM?

And what? YOU are the one that

1. Ditched your Veno to play archer.
2. Then said you hate APS and would be pure bow.
3. Then went -int and even got TT100 fists.

I on the other hand, still have both characters equipped and both are at 4/5 APS and I play both actively. I don't mean to belittle archers, but I'm only stating the obvious, that even with BP they're still doing **** damage per hit to benefit from it. Unlike BMs let alone Assassins.

Also, another thing that makes no sense "Proving an original class can be as good" is kind of a statement you want to make when you're not a fist/claw archer. That contradicts your whole effort to "prove an original class can be as good". No, it can't. Because you need to follow the craze and slap on a pair of fists and get -int gear to be "as good".

I'm sorry, Summer, but unlike you who ditches their character to follow the craze on a character it's not meant for. I play effectively and invested in characters that utilize their potential to the fullest, instead of making a character that only attempts to utilize a way of playing that was not meant for that character in the first place.

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear

Jhalil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As much as I doubt that, and even if I were to believe it there's still tons of factors, was your APS higher, was he sparked, was it right after random aggro? Was he a pure mage BM?

And what? YOU are the one that

1. Ditched your Veno to play archer.
2. Then said you hate APS and would be pure bow.
3. Then went -int and even got TT100 fists.

I on the other hand, still have both characters equipped and both are at 4/5 APS and I play both actively. I don't mean to belittle archers, but I'm only stating the obvious, that even with BP they're still doing **** damage per hit to benefit from it. Unlike BMs let alone Assassins.

Also, another thing that makes no sense "Proving an original class can be as good" is kind of a statement you want to make when you're not a fist/claw archer. That contradicts your whole effort to "prove an original class can be as good". No, it can't. Because you need to follow the craze and slap on a pair of fists and get -int gear to be "as good".

I'm sorry, Summer, but unlike you who ditches their character to follow the craze on a character it's not meant for. I play effectively and invested in characters that utilize their potential to the fullest, instead of making a character that only attempts to utilize a way of playing that was not meant for that character in the first place.

i still have my veno but ive always wanted to make an archer, those who know me well know ive been saying that for over a year; when my veno got banned i rolled an archer it felt like the right time. as for being pure aps fist archer your far from right.

i have my R8 bow and still use it to good effect in every situation be it BH or TT, being able to use 5.0 fists on bosses is a great bonus on the side; as is to be awesome with a bow and taking agro from you still. so i have utilized my character to the fullest potential, not just aps craze

jha im not even gonna comment on the bm because you know aswell as i do that their players are mostly cash shoppers or really well geared