O.o at this cleric in bh fire

From personal experience, as the number of clerics in squad increases, in most cases so does the % of deaths as well.

One is enough in that instance, & you know who to blame if the healing is complete ****.

So when I see 2 clerics in a squad, I know deaths will happen. Each of them is thinking "my gear and mattk is better then theirs so I should DD". But neither of them actually SAY it. So what happens is that both EPs DD until people start ticking their charms, die and start yelling.

If ever you are in a 2 or 3 cleric squad, refuse to start the instance until one of them agrees to do the actual healing (they can switch off if you want but that might turn into babysitting) so its better to have 1 do the entire instance.

A cleric that doesnt heal is a fail mage. If you want to DD, choose an attack class. A cleric (even if pure build) is NOT an attack class. They can deal some damage, even good damage in certain circumstances, but the class was created to heal, attack skills are there for when they are soloing or in a party with another cleric (see rules above).

A cleric that doesnt heal is like a barb that doesnt Bite or Roar, a BM that doesnt Stun or Dragon, an Archer that doesnt Sharptooth.... do I really need to go on? If you insist on calling yourself a fail mage ... I mean an attack cleric.... then only respond to DD calls, not ones looking for a (healing) cleric. And when you join the party, very clearly state that you are there to DD, not heal.

My two cents.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

a cleric can out damage two classes... pet less veno and vit tiger barb. and of these two classes... the cleric can only hold aggro over the pet less veno. to have a cleric tank is one of the most inefficient for killing bosses.

the game is built that any physical class (to date) will out damage a cleric if the necessity arises. and when it comes to magic classes... a cleric can bearly hold a candle to a wiz or red voodoo psy. having a cleric dd instead of heal... is more or less like having a wiz heal instead of dd. i have had a wiz heal me... cause i have no other healer available. but when it comes to dd... pretty much any other class is a better dd then a cleric... so the choice is ALWAYS there. even the classes that a cleric can out dd will be more of an asset then a heal less cleric. pet less veno doesn't exist... every freaking veno out there has a pet. and if i am not getting heals... i would much perfer a barb for the buffs alone then having a **** bit extra attack to poke the boss with.

there is actually a pretty good chance that replacing a heal less cleric with a barb for buffs/devour... would shorten the boss time due to extra phy damages for the dds and the phy debuffs.

Neh... Totally disagree on the petless veno part. Unless it's a Nix, even a Veno with a Pet will be out-dded by a Cleric, unless it's a pure magic veno build. LA and HA are so low damage, it's not even really worth doing unless you have a high damage pet.

Damage per hit, the Cleric does pretty hard hits in the lower levels. After about 50, everything else passes the cleric, which is where you really start running in squads anyway.

My cleric is a healer. If I'm in a party with another cleric, I tell them to DD, and I heal only, unless they tell me to DD, and they will heal. I'll keep an eye on health bars, and add healing only if necessary then, such as, if BB is up, and the tank is getting low on health.

However, due to the rampant stupidity of people in the 70's, I have stopped playing my cleric.

I go on many runs and many times w/more than 1 cleric. Done bh's w/just an all cleric squad and never had issues. I make it a point to always ask "You wanna DD or heal?" so I know the squad is covered.
And as for the clerics not being a great DD...they are. I hit on average 30-40k non crit BUT, like a few have mentioned...by the time another DD'er comes along...they have had prolly 5 crits in the time i've casted and had 1.
But I wouldn't avoid all squads just bc there is more than one cleric. One SHOULD be healing and the other can be DD and support healing when needed cuz u gotta love those lag spikes at the wrong time. >.<
I don't avoid squads w/more than one bm...or two barbs, 4 sins, etc. Think outside the box and just avoid those you have squaded with and weren't healing. b:victory

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Neh... Totally disagree on the petless veno part. Unless it's a Nix, even a Veno with a Pet will be out-dded by a Cleric, unless it's a pure magic veno build. LA and HA are so low damage, it's not even really worth doing unless you have a high damage pet.

a veno's magic multipler is lower then a cleric... so regardless of build... a cleric will out damage the veno alone. but while a cleric's damage is greater then the veno or the pet alone. the combine damage between the veno and its pet (even a bee or a scorpion) will be greater then the cleric.

the damage is even noticeable if the pet is tanking. take herc for example. when tanking the herc can also draw upon its reflect to count toward its own damage. this is why you still see herc tanks for lower refined squads in some tts.... where the herc alone (with veno healing) is enough to hold aggro over lesser dds (which include the cleric as well).

EDIT: lets not forget the lack of damage reduction from pet attacks on "?" cleric.

in the old days... where barb still actually tank stuff. a pet has to turn off its skills... or even a reaming barb would lose aggro to a pet. you also people to tell archers to hold back so not to steal aggro. but i have never heard anyone to tell a dding cleric to hold back.

dimented wrote: »

Well one said "there is 3 tanks, buy charm" the other was trying to say my bm was fail, when the other bm in squad also died. I never had any problem before. I just finished my todays bh fire like 5 mins ago with 1 cleric. It was a great run. No deaths. So again I ask.. 1 pro cleric> 2 fail clerics?

If one cleric had to deal with 3 tanks, that can be a lot to juggle. One cleric might have trouble healing 4 different "tanks" if they all need aggressive heals and she can't BB for whatever reason. In this case, someone should have realized what was going on and switched to DD if you all didn't want to boot the problem cleric. You got to adjust to squad dynamics otherwise you end up with fails all along. If you wanted the squad (and all wanted to stay in) to go smoothly, you should have either A)kicked the problem cleric and brought in another DD to help the squishiest of you two so that everyone stays alive. B)Had the healing cleric BB and only take on collectively what you could manage in it or C) Switched to a one tank system, and if you decide to make things go faster by running off and DDing than only take on what you can handle by yourself. This whole things sounds like a fail in communication to me and not necessarily the fault of an individual.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well, my input:
BH Warsong, TT, RB - don't take anyone under 5k HP and without a lvl 99+ weapon.

... stuff...

BH Abbadon, SoT - don't care, all I need is BP.

If I can do these as single cleric in a squad at lvl 93 with a requiem blade, without a charm and at buffed HP around 5k then I don't think the healing power or squishy-ness of your cleric should be a big problem. You write that you only need BP during a run, so apparently in your case there is not that much healing required, especially since you're not a melee class. The 5k HP and 99+ weapon as a minimum requirement seems a bit strange if you're referring to the cleric.

oxytorch wrote: »

P.S .. my Cleric is a full support cleric.. i DD on my other toons !!!!!!

I've seen clerics heal, DD, and debuff at the same time. According to them it's not difficult but then again my cleric is only in her 50s right now so I wouldn't know how much of that is false modesty.

Clerics should heal

Archers should use bows

Blademasters should use swords

Barbarians should tank


Some people are just so.. so stupid.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*sigh
nub



+1

U both nabs.....

I rather take a dd cleric on squad than a wizard why, well clerics have debuff phisical and mag resistance while not hithing harder than a wiz he will provide the squad a faster dd and boss kill b:bye

This thread is funny. I was going to comment on it with something smart-alecish, but I won't. Instead I say this:

As a Cleric, if you are doing high lelve BHs and cannot DD and heal properly (especially in bh fire), then JUST heal. You can't BB much on a BH Fire, so toss Chromatic healing and be done with it. As a Cleric it's YOUR job to know when you can DD and when you should be healing. I never "ask" the squad what I should do, so unless I am told otherwise I go on my instinct.

We have some fantastic DD ability there is no doubt about that. I love popping off 200k+ Crits, but realize if you're do that much damage likely your team is doing more. Clerics are the strongest healers in the game and largely we are irreplaceable as such. So Be a healer first a DD (debuff) second and just learn to multitask to help your team the best.

I have my reservations about doing some things as a cleric like saving someones charm who is doing **** things to burn it and then complain that I am not keeping up (hardly ever happens now that I can heal for 7-12k with my quick heals) with them, but one thing I would never do is assume that my party doesn't need me for healing at least in some manner.

There are times were all I feel like doing is attacking as well and just res the dead untill we got to the boss.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

why do clerics persist on saying that they can hold a candle to any other class in DD? I'll say they can out damage an equal geared non -interval barb, and that's about it.

The cleric in beginning of thread that says he can hit 20-30k normal hit makes me laugh. I hit about 18k on average as a wiz; you know, the dph class? He's either got insanely high refines on his tt90 wep (lol) or he's plain lying, and that's all there is to it. Nothing makes his cleric so special that it can hit that high without refines- and that's mathematically proven if you even look at the skill damage calculations.

Oh and I'd like to know how he hit 114k without spark, genie skill, amp, hf, etc.

Because I've only hit 220k, and that was an undined extreme poisoned heaven flamed double sparked bids crit (and yes it was on an equal level mob).

and my best on another player is only 42k, which is on a phys marrowed blademaster with a BIDS and basically every other damage multiplier I stated earlier (level of bm was unknown, but this was in a TW against a 80+ TW fac).

wtf was a BM doing with phy marrow on in TW

G_ree_n - Sanctuary wrote: »

I haven't played in about 2 years, so you may be right about other classes out-damaging attack built clerics. When I played though, it was entirely possible.

That being said, I understand that in everyone's mind cleric = healer and if I showed up in a group with the intent to DD, I would bring a healing built cleric with me.

Edit: Honestly, what kind of healing do you expect a attack built cleric to do?

Well since healing and DD spells for a cleric are both based on the same stats a "DD" cleric would also be able to heal unless they didn't invest any points in healing spells, which is utter fail.

A cleric's for healing/purifying period, there's no reason for a cleric to DD unless there are more than 1 cleric or the group is doing so well that you can afford to DD on the side.

There's not a single class in the game that can't out dps clerics with exception of maybe tank barbs.