O.o at this cleric in bh fire
dimented
Posts: 0 Arc User
OK so I was in bh fire yesterday. Squad was: 2bms, 2 clerics, barb and veno. So I thought 2 clerics, this should be ok, but instead it was the worst bh fire I've ever been in. Instead of healing the cleric says "buy a charm"b:shocked I thought clerics liked to save peoples charms, has that changed as well with all the hyper noobs? Whats your input?
Post edited by dimented on
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well, my input:
BH Warsong, TT, RB - don't take anyone under 5k HP and without a lvl 99+ weapon. As soon as someone doesn't do their job either kick or leave squad. I sometimes try to explain ppl what do to, if I see they at least trying, I stay. If not I leave and search another squad. Losing time with a fail squad is worse than just trying to find a new one.
BH Abbadon, SoT - don't care, all I need is BP.____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Now, I don't want to sound like I'm being too bossy here, since my only cleric alt is about level 20 and I freely admit to having no experience with them, but...
If you're not healing, why the <RABBITS!> are you playing a cleric? You <BUNNY!> twit! It's what a cleric is <LAGOMORPHICALLY!> good at! Everyone <FLUFFY!> expects you to do it, so <HOPPING!> well DO it!
<RABBITS!><RABBITS!><RABBITS!><BUNNY!><RABBITS!>
Edit: Automatic swear censoring is <HOPPING!><RABBITS!>.0 -
metal maage0
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With the right build, clerics can be amazing DDs. Don't expect every single one you meet to be a healer. Especially since healing is like unpaid babysitting. Don't be surprised when people, even clerics, don't want to do it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Roll a barb on Sanctuary for hot cleric action. b:kiss0 -
G_ree_n - Sanctuary wrote: »With the right build, clerics can be amazing DDs. Don't expect every single one you meet to be a healer. Especially since healing is like unpaid babysitting. Don't be surprised when people, even clerics, don't want to do it.
A cleric can have whatever build s/he wants... and whatever gear s/he can buy. But there is still no way in hell a cleric can out damage any of the real DDs... so i am not sure where you get this "amazing" DD from. If my party is going to do anything without cleric heals... why the **** would we even take a cleric.
If any cleric in my party says s/he doesn't want to heal and for all of us to get a charm. Then I will boot him or her and get a real DD... after all I am only upgrading the damage of the party by replacing a medicore DD with professional DD.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Ok, yea I agree there are DD clerics, but to go as far as to tell people to buy charms and that they fail when they die without heals. Thats pretty low I would think. Me(bm) and other bm died and she say buy charm. There was 2 clerics in this squad, and Ive had smoother 1 cleric squads, even with the cleric DD'ing a bit. As long as you know how to balance the two its fine. Thats just my opinion, I'm just looking for others input.0
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*sighG_ree_n - Sanctuary wrote: »With the right build, clerics can be amazing DDs. Don't expect every single one you meet to be a healer. Especially since healing is like unpaid babysitting. Don't be surprised when people, even clerics, don't want to do it.
nubKiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »A cleric can have whatever build s/he wants... and whatever gear s/he can buy. But there is still no way in hell a cleric can out damage any of the real DDs... so i am not sure where you get this "amazing" DD from. If my party is going to do anything without cleric heals... why the **** would we even take a cleric.
If any cleric in my party says s/he doesn't want to heal and for all of us to get a charm. Then I will boot him or her and get a real DD... after all I am only upgrading the damage of the party by replacing a medicore DD with professional DD.
+1____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I haven't played in about 2 years, so you may be right about other classes out-damaging attack built clerics. When I played though, it was entirely possible.Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »A cleric can have whatever build s/he wants... and whatever gear s/he can buy. But there is still no way in hell a cleric can out damage any of the real DDs... so i am not sure where you get this "amazing" DD from. If my party is going to do anything without cleric heals... why the **** would we even take a cleric.
If any cleric in my party says s/he doesn't want to heal and for all of us to get a charm. Then I will boot him or her and get a real DD... after all I am only upgrading the damage of the party by replacing a medicore DD with professional DD.
That being said, I understand that in everyone's mind cleric = healer and if I showed up in a group with the intent to DD, I would bring a healing built cleric with me.
Edit: Honestly, what kind of healing do you expect a attack built cleric to do?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Roll a barb on Sanctuary for hot cleric action. b:kiss0 -
G_ree_n - Sanctuary wrote: »With the right build, clerics can be amazing DDs. Don't expect every single one you meet to be a healer. Especially since healing is like unpaid babysitting. Don't be surprised when people, even clerics, don't want to do it.
+1 to this. When I'm hitting for 20-30k and critting in the range of 40-60k I'd like to have the chance to DD a bit more.
I always make a not though, first check the other clerics gear. If it's nowhere near mine, I'll ask. "Hey do you mind if I DD in this run?". Sometimes play curious and ask what their base damage range is. Most Level 100-101 clerics I run into have about 2-4k less base damage than I do at 95. They can heal just fine, but the bosses die faster if I can DD and Seal.
I'll still keep an eye on the squad, and if something happens, I'm right there on the support. Plus the other cleric usually decides to just BB at the bosses, (like in BH89), and it's really fun to steal aggro from the barb on Thousand Year Spirit or Ninetails and watch em gape while I tank. I know my limits though, and I don't get stupid just to show off. People end up dead that way, usually me.
Since the power of my heals are based on my base damage index, freaking awesome heals. Just wellspring Surge can do 4-5khp in one shot. It's all bout having the skills leveled.G_ree_n - Sanctuary wrote: »... Honestly, what kind of healing do you expect a attack built cleric to do?
Yes, this is fail. I will only consider being a DD'er when I am not the only cleric.Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »If any cleric in my party says s/he doesn't want to heal and for all of us to get a charm. Then I will boot him or her and get a real DD... after all I am only upgrading the damage of the party by replacing a medicore DD with professional DD.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I was mostly referring to people who roll a cleric and then realize how much it sucks to try to heal people who pull the entire instance at once and then get called a "fail" for not keeping up, but still enjoy the damage aspect of clerics.
I think people should just stop assuming that all clerics are healers.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Roll a barb on Sanctuary for hot cleric action. b:kiss0 -
G_ree_n - Sanctuary wrote: »I haven't played in about 2 years, so you may be right about other classes out-damaging attack built clerics. When I played though, it was entirely possible.
That being said, I understand that in everyone's mind cleric = healer and if I showed up in a group with the intent to DD, I would bring a healing built cleric with me.
Edit: Honestly, what kind of healing do you expect a attack built cleric to do?
I have my archer since the first week of the server (HT). And never in my life have I been out damaged by a cleric... even ones 10 level above me. So it comes back to it all... when you choose to run with **** players... do not assume they are the norm.
And I actually expect a attack built cleric to heal much faster and better then a vit build support cleric. After all... isn't a cleric's magic attack part of the equation for its heals? A metal mage would have higher magic attack then a support cleric... and hence higher heals (per heal) as well.SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »+1 to this. When I'm hitting for 20-30k and critting in the range of 40-60k I'd like to have the chance to DD a bit more.
I always make a not though, first check the other clerics gear. If it's nowhere near mine, I'll ask. "Hey do you mind if I DD in this run?". Sometimes play curious and ask what their base damage range is. Most Level 100-101 clerics I run into have about 2-4k less base damage than I do at 95. They can heal just fine, but the bosses die faster if I can DD and Seal.
I'll still keep an eye on the squad, and if something happens, I'm right there on the support. Plus the other cleric usually decides to just BB at the bosses, (like in BH89), and it's really fun to steal aggro from the barb on Thousand Year Spirit or Ninetails and watch em gape while I tank. I know my limits though, and I don't get stupid just to show off. People end up dead that way, usually me.
Really now? Just what mob/boss are you doing 20-30k and 40-60 crit on. Won't happen to be tree boss in abaddon or rb bosses... would it. For those bosses... my metal/regular can non crit well into the 6 digits... kinda make your 60k crit seem below average... doesn't it. And then there are those 5aps who can hit 20k non crit regularly... in the time it take you to cast a skill... he would have already scored 15 hits for total 300k damage (and that is if non of the hits crit)... kinda make your damage look pathetic... doesn't it.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
One person out of however many hundreds of thousands of people who play this game says he has never been out-damaged by a cleric.Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have my archer since the first week of the server (HT). And never in my life have I been out damaged by a cleric... even ones 10 level above me. So it comes back to it all... when you choose to run with **** players... do not assume they are the norm.
Is my face red...
Edit: And I never said we out-damage other classes.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Roll a barb on Sanctuary for hot cleric action. b:kiss0 -
G_ree_n - Sanctuary wrote: »I was mostly referring to people who roll a cleric and then realize how much it sucks to try to heal people who pull the entire instance at once and then get called a "fail" for not keeping up, but still enjoy the damage aspect of clerics.
I think people should just stop assuming that all clerics are healers.
I don't mind if a cleric decided to dd in my squad... if there is TWO of them. But if I have one cleric... and am expected to charm tank everything. I will boot the lowest dd (aka the cleric) and get a better dd. Make the run faster... and burn less charm.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
Really now? Just what mob/boss are you doing 20-30k and 40-60 crit on. Won't happen to be tree boss in abaddon or rb bosses... would it. For those bosses... my metal/regular can non crit well into the 6 digits... kinda make your 60k crit seem below average... doesn't it. And then there are those 5aps who can hit 20k non crit regularly... in the time it take you to cast a skill... he would have already scored 15 hits for total 300k damage (and that is if non of the hits crit)... kinda make your damage look pathetic... doesn't it.
Meh, I hit upwards of 24k on any mob, regardless of it's element. (well except the ? ones of course) Wood mobs are quite a lot more than that... I say for a cleric meant to be a healer that's pretty good. I've one shot my barb husband who has 17k hp in human. People really underestimate clerics, and I know other classes do more, but it's still pretty damn good.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
jellytoast - Demon Cleric
Wizzypop - Demon Wizard
"We cannot solve our problems with the same
thinking we used when we created them." -Albert Einstein0 -
G_ree_n - Sanctuary wrote: »One person out of however many hundreds of thousands of people who play this game says he has never been out-damaged by a cleric.
Is my face red...
Edit: And I never said we out-damage other classes.
That came from this...
"I haven't played in about 2 years, so you may be right about other classes out-damaging attack built clerics. When I played though, it was entirely possible."
Of course its entirely possible for a metal cleric to out damage some sub par dd. I also been playing two years ago... and have yet to be out damaged by a cleric (metal mage or not). So it can only be that you are running with less then decent dds.Jellytoast - Sanctuary wrote: »Meh, I hit upwards of 24k on any mob, regardless of it's element. (well except the ? ones of course) Wood mobs are quite a lot more than that... I say for a cleric meant to be a healer that's pretty good. I've one shot my barb husband who has 17k hp in human. People really underestimate clerics, and I know other classes do more, but it's still pretty damn good.
I have no doubt if you randomly take a hit from a cleric and my archer... that the cleric could possibility done more damage in that one shot. But also consider this... in the time it take for you to pull off a hit... I would already have done two. So essentially when it comes to tanking... your one hit is going to be competiting against two of my hits.
With that in mind... are you actually suggesting that you as a cleric... can out damage me as an archer in terms of damage on boss... or something that actually requires tanking. I am pretty sure you can't out damage my primary weapon... and its more then likely that you can't even out damage my secondary weapon.
My point isn't that cleric can't do damage. But if there is one cleric in the squad... and he refuses to heal. Then its like there is NO clerics in the squad. And if there is NO clerics in the squad... i would like to maximize the damage of the squad to speed things up. and having a cleric in the squad who doesn't heal... is NOT the way to maximize damage to speed things up. Now... i do wonder... why are all those 4-5 min nirvana squad cleric-less.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Really now? Just what mob/boss are you doing 20-30k and 40-60 crit on. Won't happen to be tree boss in abaddon or rb bosses... would it. For those bosses... my metal/regular can non crit well into the 6 digits... kinda make your 60k crit seem below average... doesn't it. And then there are those 5aps who can hit 20k non crit regularly... in the time it take you to cast a skill... he would have already scored 15 hits for total 300k damage (and that is if non of the hits crit)... kinda make your damage look pathetic... doesn't it.
I am speaking of regular mons/bosses in FB 69/79/89 With the exception of the metal mobs/bosses of course, and yes, I hit wood bosses/mobs a LOT more. My highest Damage number so far, (without massive debuffing/sparksgenie skills), is 114k. I'm just saying that on average, under reasonable and normal situations, those are the numbers that pop up on my screen.
Also you're level 102. What weapon are you using? I imagin that when I am your level, with similar gear, I will be hitting those kinda of numbers as well. My point is, that it is the exception, not the norm for a cleric.
Also, I am not saying I will out DD a fully built 5aps toon with uber gear. I never made any such claim. I'm happy to have them tank, and typically with bloodpaint, I don't even have to heal when I am solo cleric.
Slow down and read the actuals words, and use the correct frame of reference please.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
well we all understand that kiyoshi can repeat the same post 50 times in one topic
clerics are decent dd, especially as far as magic casters and their non-aps limitations are concerned, but they are given healing skills for a reason, just like u wouldnt take a barb to an rb squad and expect a wizard to do the pulling.. it all depends on the squads expectations, like most clerics can both heal and dd, sometimes can have a bm or sin bloodpaint tank things while the cleric can dd. if u want that then simply dont take an archer. plus u get to avoid people like kiyoshi, and if i had lead his mouth alone would certainly have my finger on the boot key ready to replace him with a sin or bm in an instant.0 -
common sense:
if you want to DD, respond to "LF DD/LF +1". not to "LF cleric".
("gasp, why there arent a lot of squads that beg for me?o:")
while technically ppl should shout for roles (LF healer/tank/puller), since cleric is pretty much the only healer atm, "LF cleric = LF healer". otherwise i would say "LF DD"
the whole attack/support cleric thing is merely a matter of which skills u lvl up, not a build.
and most ppl level all their skills anyway, these days with all the abundance of spirit.
anyway, here is a test: make a cleric build, calculate dps
now switch the cleric to wizard in pwicalc and calculate the dps.
i seriously doubt that the cleric will do more dmg but since i havent checked all the builds i wont say that it's impossible.0 -
You should have booted from squad/left squad on the spot.
A cleric's job is to heal first and DD second.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »I am speaking of regular mons/bosses in FB 69/79/89 With the exception of the metal mobs/bosses of course, and yes, I hit wood bosses/mobs a LOT more. My highest Damage number so far, (without massive debuffing/sparksgenie skills), is 114k. I'm just saying that on average, under reasonable and normal situations, those are the numbers that pop up on my screen.
Also you're level 102. What weapon are you using? I imagin that when I am your level, with similar gear, I will be hitting those kinda of numbers as well. My point is, that it is the exception, not the norm for a cleric.
Also, I am not saying I will out DD a fully built 5aps toon with uber gear. I never made any such claim. I'm happy to have them tank, and typically with bloodpaint, I don't even have to heal when I am solo cleric.
Slow down and read the actuals words, and use the correct frame of reference please.
If you want to know my gear... then you are welcome to come and look. But I can tell you this... my secondary weapon can out damage a +10 r9 cleric weapon. By calculation... that my secondary would even out damage a +12 r9 cleric weapon. And my primary weapon held aggro over +12 wizards. You can do as much damage as you want... but on the DD totem pole... clerics is going to be toward the end.Eden - Raging Tide wrote: »well we all understand that kiyoshi can repeat the same post 50 times in one topic
clerics are decent dd, especially as far as magic casters and their non-aps limitations are concerned, but they are given healing skills for a reason, just like u wouldnt take a barb to an rb squad and expect a wizard to do the pulling.. it all depends on the squads expectations, like most clerics can both heal and dd, sometimes can have a bm or sin bloodpaint tank things while the cleric can dd. if u want that then simply dont take an archer. plus u get to avoid people like kiyoshi, and if i had lead his mouth alone would certainly have my finger on the boot key ready to replace him with a sin or bm in an instant.
If there is a bm/sin tanking with bp... why would there even be a cleric present... other then if hes a friend or the squad likes to run slow? You can boot me from squad all you want. But when it comes down to it all... my damage is going to speak for it self.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
I wouldve booted from squad but unfortunately I wasn't lead, and I didnt wanna leave because I had already paid my mirages. But yea I think its probably easy to leave for the cost of my mirages and find a better squad. It seems everyone is talking about 1 cleric squads, this was a 2 cleric squad, It should go better if not same as a 1 cleric squad, right?
I know 1 cleric squads have gone just fine for me in bh fire. Instead the cleric calling my bm fail, when Ive had no problems before ever in bh fire with "only" 1 cleric.
So 1 Pro cleric>2 Fail Clerics? Thanks all for your input.0 -
Clerics that don't heal.....? Okay i'll dd and the wiz can spam us with morning dew. The barb won't be pulling the psy will.Shhh don't troll, it's yulk bait.0
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clerics that dont want to heal should re-roll a wizard.
wtf is an attack build cleric? attacks and heals work off the same stats. attack build cleric shards all DOTs and doesnt refine weapon, and only levels attack skills. leaving IH, surge, beam, and res at lvl 1?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I wouldve booted from squad but unfortunately I wasn't lead, and I didnt wanna leave because I had already paid my mirages. But yea I think its probably easy to leave for the cost of my mirages and find a better squad. It seems everyone is talking about 1 cleric squads, this was a 2 cleric squad, It should go better if not same as a 1 cleric squad, right?
I know 1 cleric squads have gone just fine for me in bh fire. Instead the cleric calling my bm fail, when Ive had no problems before ever in bh fire with "only" 1 cleric.
So 1 Pro cleric>2 Fail Clerics? Thanks all for your input.
oh, bh fire = cannonfist? lol i thought drake in 59b:chuckle
2 mirages < charm ****. but warsong is charm **** anyway
i have never done cannon with two clerics o.o0 -
o.o I personally have no problem with clerics dd'ing, but if it wasn't a clerics job to heal they wouldn't have been given the healing skills, sure i know some amazing attack clerics, but their main priority in a squad, as of now, is saving all of our dd asses o~o
i have been in several squads where clerics go from healing to pure ddng, was in a fcc the other day and cleric left BB in exp room to dd.. squad wipe 8D but that's a good example of needing healing assistance over dding.
and to the charm comment: they wouldn't be saying that if they were the one whose charm kept ticking or blow clear through to the death several times <.<[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Proud Wife of Chizburger b:cute0 -
G_ree_n - Sanctuary wrote: »With the right build, clerics can be amazing DDs. Don't expect every single one you meet to be a healer. Especially since healing is like unpaid babysitting. Don't be surprised when people, even clerics, don't want to do it.
That's fine to me, but you need to tell squad that you would not heal, you are a dd before hand. actually most of those metal mega get invited because they are cleric.0 -
many ppl pck cleric to play becoz they want to be able to heal themselve for the sake of pvp: they htink they can jsut stand there and spam heal and never dieb:thanks
I gave up on my lvl 94 cleric coz i am tired of healing lol ^^ cleric as a DD is decent with with spamming plumeshot and cyclone but cleric obviously is not a DD class to start with so dont even bther to start on taht. W/o CS i think vit buld will be the best for cleric becoz if you are not strong enuff to survive how are you going to sav others ? i b:laugh at pure mag build cleric or LA cleric waste of time and effort.b:surrender
However, if you can CS ur gears or farm it to have decent refine (+10) then u can go pure mag as u wish, but be4 u have that kind of gears stay vit build and heal ok ?^^0 -
Heal first, THEN DD.I can't imagine why a cleric would even THINK of JUST DDing and NOT healing AT ALL.
If there's another cleric in the squad that's healing, sure, it's ok to DD, but if you're the only cleric in squad, you'd better heal.Don't like it?Reroll!
By the way, you said there were 2 clerics in squad.One told you to buy a charm, what about the other?
Or did they BOTH do that? b:shocked 0 -
Well one said "there is 3 tanks, buy charm" the other was trying to say my bm was fail, when the other bm in squad also died. I never had any problem before. I just finished my todays bh fire like 5 mins ago with 1 cleric. It was a great run. No deaths. So again I ask.. 1 pro cleric> 2 fail clerics?0
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1 pro > 2 failures
applies to all classes, not just clerics. I dont think anybody really needs to say that b:laugh0
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