facepalm stupid squads

Mighty_Bunta - Harshlands · November 2010

here's one. picture this. a party, with a bm, a sin, two cleric and 2 archers. one of th archers constantly uses skills like deadly shot and gets arrgo, everyone dies but the other archer, the archer that took arrgo cries about how he got arrgo, and when the other archer told him he needs to stop using skills, he argued that as archers it's their jobs to do heavy damage and that both of them failed cos they didn't use barrage. the archer that got away argued that even in the best of situations archers don't use barrage and it was an absolute no no with no barb. at this point i entered the argument.

me: "bob (the archer that survived) is right. archers may be DD but they need to know who far to go with damage when no barb is around otherwise everyone dies."

jake (archer that got everone wiped) "what the hell do you know? your jsut a cerlic."

me: "a cerlic with a level 83 archer and a 76 wiz, 60 sin and 75 psy. beleive me, i know about DD and arrgo."

jake: "you just admitted your an oracle noob."

me; "i'm not an oracle noob i've been playing for almost 2 years, altho i'll admit i spammed oracles on my sin and pshy but i worked my *** off on my archer and wiz cos the oracles were not around as much back then. i had my shear of arrgo stealing just from using normal shots with a barb spamming skills.

bob: see told ya

at this point a cleric came back and resed everyone.

jake: "both of you are fools the point of a dd is to damage deal how the **** we can do that without skills?"

BM: "use normal shots from now on and we'll be fine."

jake: you guys are so clueless"

Bob: ' can we please kick him out the squad?"

BM dashes at the boss after he lands 2 hits jake opens up with deadly shot followed by spells,

Bob: "stop you gonna pull arrgo"

jake charges take aim and fires, boss guns for him, clerics see this and runs away along with bob the bm stayed knowing he can get resed. jake the ranted about how everyone in the party sucked he pmed me and said everyone here is an oricale noob.

jake was pormtly kicked from the squad.

i didn't want to use the player name (not that i could remember). but this guy was so stupid it wasn't funny. and the fact that he didn't realize his own mistake made it even more sad. it's one thing to make a mistake, but to make the same mistake and not realize it is pretty stupid.

Prophete - Dreamweaver · November 2010

Jade_san - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I had a psy, slaayer, do that to me. Okay we had 3 clerics for his fb69 all of us clerics were working everything fine, at the time I was broke and had little pots to spare, so I'm close to no mp so I go behind the last cleric who is the furtherest away to rest. So slaayer says "jade use pots." So me not one to get mad over that little thing so I whisper "I'm broke and I can't to use my pot besides we have 2 cleric doing a fine job right now." they weren't complaining either

So he goes on with it completely missing that I had just told him I was broke. So we continue after fb I'm not mad until he says "You need help for getting angry that quick and you can't take a joke."

So I ask "Oh I'm not mad if I was I would caps. But okay enlighten me, where was the joke?" I get no answer for the joke and he goes on "I know how it is to be a cleric i have a lvl 90 (or something)"

So I say "I've been a cleric for 75 lvls I know how to do my job"

slaayer says "Well I guess you don't cuz I need to tell you how to."

So I get pissed then, I wasn't mad through our whole chat upset more or less but I got pissed then and I said "That's it, blacklist bye"

And if he reads this whatever just a warning to all clerics let slaayer die if you squad with him because during the fb he wasn't even helping. Yeah the boss could wipe him out but after this chat with him I don't care.

You are a cleric, you should have pot/mana food on you for the whole run.
That's like the moto of clerics: never run out of mana. Period.

This Psy was a jerk, but you were wrong not having mana pots.
I know that if I run out of mana in an instance, I would so feel like a fail cleric.

SorrowfulKia - Sanctuary · November 2010

What makes me personally angry. Is. (Rant time) I was doing a TT run . It was 2-2. We got to Wurlord, the barb the whole time thus far had kept going in human. I didn't mind this at first, he was in human but keeping aggro and he actually made it quicker and it was still easy to keep him healed and have time to debuff or hit. Well, this was all fine until we got to wurlord. In the middle he then decided to go human..This made it really hard to keep him alive. Magic was hitting him more then half or half of his hp. So I told him, stay in his kitty form. He kept going human, at this point I now just came to the conclusion that..he's not going to listen. At the point then I really didn't have the energy to look for a new barb..So i healed him. Kept him alive. He was fine the rest of the run. I do not want to go through it again.

barbs. .listen to the cleric when we're correct but at least i had a new barb story

Also now it seems, nobody cares what the clerics say. They think we are too stupid to figure anything out, and if we do that we're wrong. Even if we're not.I've actually gotten yelled at for debuffing and attacking. I got told a good cleric only ihs the barb. The barb was fine. I can heal and attack. And. Good clerics know when you can attack and debuff and when you need to focus solely on the barb. And you are able to switch to healing when it is needed. -end rant-

Outlaw_Arch - Heavens Tear · November 2010

SorrowfulKia - Sanctuary wrote: »

What makes me personally angry. Is. (Rant time) I was doing a TT run . It was 2-2. We got to Wurlord, the barb the whole time thus far had kept going in human. I didn't mind this at first, he was in human but keeping aggro and he actually made it quicker and it was still easy to keep him healed and have time to debuff or hit. Well, this was all fine until we got to wurlord. In the middle he then decided to go human..This made it really hard to keep him alive. Magic was hitting him more then half or half of his hp. So I told him, stay in his kitty form. He kept going human, at this point I now just came to the conclusion that..he's not going to listen. At the point then I really didn't have the energy to look for a new barb..So i healed him. Kept him alive. He was fine the rest of the run. I do not want to go through it again.

barbs. .listen to the cleric when we're correct but at least i had a new barb story

Also now it seems, nobody cares what the clerics say. They think we are too stupid to figure anything out, and if we do that we're wrong. Even if we're not.I've actually gotten yelled at for debuffing and attacking. I got told a good cleric only ihs the barb. The barb was fine. I can heal and attack. And. Good clerics know when you can attack and debuff and when you need to focus solely on the barb. And you are able to switch to healing when it is needed. -end rant-

^^

this ladies and gents is why i always try to do things like this with guild memebers. me personally, i'm a guy who just doesn't care 100% if i need to do the TT. if players start throwing blame on me, i basicly say **** you go find another cerlic. your story is very intresting in that the barb says a good cerlic spams IH on tank. well last time i checked a good tank stays in kitty form and lets the DD classes do their thing.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · November 2010

SorrowfulKia - Sanctuary wrote: »

What makes me personally angry. Is. (Rant time) I was doing a TT run . It was 2-2. We got to Wurlord, the barb the whole time thus far had kept going in human. I didn't mind this at first, he was in human but keeping aggro and he actually made it quicker and it was still easy to keep him healed and have time to debuff or hit. Well, this was all fine until we got to wurlord. In the middle he then decided to go human..This made it really hard to keep him alive. Magic was hitting him more then half or half of his hp. So I told him, stay in his kitty form. He kept going human, at this point I now just came to the conclusion that..he's not going to listen. At the point then I really didn't have the energy to look for a new barb..So i healed him. Kept him alive. He was fine the rest of the run. I do not want to go through it again.

if he was able to keep aggro and stay alive then what is the problem?

SorrowfulKia - Sanctuary · November 2010

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if he was able to keep aggro and stay alive then what is the problem?

The problem was at wurlord xD he almost died like 3 times during that. Not good to stress me out x.x....He got down to 2k at a point. He still wouldn't go back into kitty. I wasted genie stamina and pots to keep his stupid self alive...should've let him die now that i look back on it....

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · November 2010

2k hp just once isnt so bad tbh

u know, barb has 10-15k hp to 'use it' (whole).

idk how that situation looked like - maybe guy was just subborn dumbass, but on other hand..

Gathen - Sanctuary · November 2010

2k hp left on a HA armor type at wurlord can be quick a one shot case during the next magic attack of the boss.

especially when the barb never heard of using alacrity

Prophete - Dreamweaver · November 2010

SorrowfulKia - Sanctuary wrote: »

The problem was at wurlord xD he almost died like 3 times during that. Not good to stress me out x.x....He got down to 2k at a point. He still wouldn't go back into kitty. I wasted genie stamina and pots to keep his stupid self alive...should've let him die now that i look back on it....

This. Sometimes people don't realize the mana cost of keeping them alive.

Outlaw_Arch - Heavens Tear · November 2010

Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This. Sometimes people don't realize the mana cost of keeping them alive.

don't start the mana pot issue. mp pots are a drop in the bucket compered to the repairing barbs and BM need to do to their gear. at level 50 i seen some mean repair bills on my nephew's BM i wouldn't want to think about level 90 TT gear.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · November 2010

Gathen - Sanctuary wrote: »

2k hp left on a HA armor type at wurlord can be quick a one shot case during the next magic attack of the boss.

especially when the barb never heard of using alacrity

i would never know..

and there is 8s gap between magic attacks

Thedarkrealm - Lost City · November 2010

first thing you should do is take the blame off of you (clerics are such an abused class always getting blamed for other people stupidness), I try to tell the squads I cleric that "I'll let stupid people die just so they know they were being stupid". Some people like it, some people dont but the reactions are always lulz for me. And secondly dont let it bother you so much, sad to say but now that this game can be massivly cash shopped and power lvl'd a lot of people dont know their class

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary · November 2010

^^ that, AND alot of people assume heals are meant for specifically and JUST them when they get damage.
Not taking in acount that their either squishy as hell.
Cleric is already halfway through channeling and thus delayed in healing them
their out of casting range.
or the boss is THAT tough the barb needs a few more extra heals before a cleric can switch to a different SQmember.
think their GOD when there's a cleric around ( C'mon there's only so much a cleric CAN do )

or their just plain and downright aggro wh0res and expect the cleric to ALWAYS keep that in mind. -_-
a cleric, in many cases, are a VERY undervalued and abused class.

~safe from the 'what's purify and Iron heart ? o.o' lvl 80's~ =x

Eoria - Harshlands · November 2010

Lets set the scene...

GV. We planned on doing up to wave 5 for culti. BM is new, but he's learning and he's not really the problem. It's the ****ing barb.

Before we began wave 3, I asked multiple times if anyone needed anti-stun pots. No response from barb. Right before the first stun wave, I asked if anyone needed anti-stun pots. Again, no response from barb. Barb goes in to lure...and is stunned to death. Cue rest of the party dying.

When we're all out, barb goes "I didn't see you ask". Did you have your ****ing head in the sand the entire time, you idiot? -.-;;

Montcalm - Archosaur · November 2010

Panteka - Sanctuary wrote: »

lol we are on the same server n I do experience that a lot, esp. bh 51 ****. I just sit there n think like "How could sumone be so dumb??" My advice: Dont ever agree to BB wyvern. Just IH the barb and purify every time it recharges (for me i have lvl 1, so it recharges every 12 seconds) and then when aoe goes throw a quick CHB and go back to ih/purify until its over. If the sin/bm in your team is too stupid to flee when their health is super low and ur really needing to heal the barb then its their own dumb fault if they die.

Just noticed this. "Dont ever agree to BB wyvern" ??? Please dont give clerics stupid ideas about bh51 because thats my current bh. Of course you BB wyvern. Too many cases where cleric doesnt BB and all the DD's in the squad die and everyone gets pissed and leaves squad.
(Im a barb on a cleric forum, so what get over it...)b:victory

Eoria - Harshlands · November 2010

Montcalm - Archosaur wrote: »

Just noticed this. "Dont ever agree to BB wyvern" ??? Please dont give clerics stupid ideas about bh51 because thats my current bh. Of course you BB wyvern. Too many cases where cleric doesnt BB and all the DD's in the squad die and everyone gets pissed and leaves squad.
(Im a barb on a cleric forum, so what get over it...)b:victory

You, sir, are an idiot.

DDs are only gonna die at Wyvern if:

1. Cleric doesn't throw a Chromatic every now and then and the DDs don't heal themselves.
2. They draw aggro like an idiot.

You, on the otherhand, will likely die without purify.

Furries - Dreamweaver · November 2010

I'm not going to say BB at wyvern cant work.. it can.

it's just a whole lot bloody harder than doing it the normal way...

Sylredrae - Sanctuary · November 2010

When I was in my 60s, I was asked a LOT to BB at Wyvern. I refused because not only does it burn more mana, it also puts me at risk to Wyvern's aoe. I've seen quite a few poor clerics try to BB at Wyvern and die. D=

Got a story from FCC... Sin was tanking. Yes, he had awesome gear, high damage and high phys defence, but we still squad wiped when we let him pull all the dragoons. Thing is, we only managed to kill several dragons, so there were plenty left in the halls. What does the squad do? Most of them stick around for a res when they're surrounded by dragoons who will most certainly kill me if aggroed. Irritated the hell out of me. Died twice to save their exp, and I ended up being called a fail cleric because I was angry enough to refuse to res the BM for being stupid. Twice. (First time he didn't wait for veno to aggro dragoons with her herc and died quickly; pretty much refused to go to town to save the squad the fiasco of trying to get past the dragoons to res them. Second time he wasn't in BB range when we faced Holeen.)

Prophete - Dreamweaver · November 2010

BBing at Wyvern works pretty good, I've done it a lot; but it depends a lot on the barb, his gear and hp.
It only failed once, when we were all still low level for that bh (still in the 50-55 range I think)
After, BB works good.
But still, it's only if I'm lazy lol; IH+pury is the best way to do it imo.

Azzazin - Dreamweaver · December 2010

Perspective.

The best clerics and barbs are those who have played both classes at one point or another, and leveled them up the 'classical' way. In other words, those who actually did the quests from 0-80ish.

If you'll allow me to toot my own horn for a bit: I have a 90+ barb, a 90+ cleric, and the character from which I am currently posting. Thus, I have played practically every instance available from a number of perspectives, including high level TTs, lunar, warsong, FC, and various fbs 19-99. Doing this has allowed me to develop an appreciation for the various difficulties each class has, and to learn ways to deal with these problems to ensure the survivability of both me and the squad. Unsurprisingly, many of of the people I people I run with comment on my skills, and I end up with great people on my friend's list.

Know something else?

I met a barb a while back while on my cleric. The barb seemed like a nice guy and moderately intelligent, but he made quite a few mistakes that would have caused me problems, if I had not anticipated them. On every single mob pull, for instance, he ran straight into bb without having aggroed the mobs in any way at all... the bm happened to not be especially quick to react, and so I was getting hit a lot. At the big room, I knew that if he repeated this, I'd die. I didn't die, of course, since I used a combo of my lvl 79 skills + plume shell + absolute domain + pots as the mobs came in, but during the absolute domain spell, the mobs all hit me at least once (ie, most clerics would have been toast).

So after the FC I asked him to wait a moment, cuz I had a few things to say to him. Trying to be as nice as I could, I told the guy that there were some techniques he could learn to improve his ability as a barbarian. (Memory fails me, but the barb had done a couple other mistakes that had made the squad not-too-happy at him). I said something to this effect: "There's nothing wrong with you. The thing is, most often there is only one barb in a squad, so what happens is, a barb has learn all the same tricks over and over. Few barbs ever get taught these tricks in advance, cuz nobody ever takes the time to tell them".

Well you know what? After I gave the guy a run-through on some of the things he could try, he was actually really appreciative. I've since run with him, and his skills are much improved, and, I would think, squads like him better for it.

So whats the point of this little story?

Basically this: don't assume, as a default, that when cleric/barb does something you think is stupid, that it means said barb/cleric IS stupid. Now I know this is often the case, but, sometimes, it is simply because nobody has ever shown them a better way. Or given the incredibly fast rate at which people level nowadays, a level 63 could be a newcomer to a bh51, and if you expect him/her to know the intricacies of each boss, and how to best approach healing/tanking/dding in every situation, you'll be badly mistaken.

Learn to be forgiving, try to sandwich your criticism so that it is constructive. Example: Instead of saying "Your tanking sucks, you fail", try, "Thanks for trying to tank. To get better at tanking this boss, why don't you try ____ and ____. If you do, I think you'll be much better at it". At the worst, the person ignores you and does what he/she has always done (which they would have done anyways if you hadn't said anything). Just ignore these people in future. If they actually implement your suggestions, and things turn out better for everybody, well, you've had a positive influence, and that is a great feeling I find.

Cheers,

Azzazin

Outlaw_Arch - Heavens Tear · December 2010

Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Perspective.

The best clerics and barbs are those who have played both classes at one point or another, and leveled them up the 'classical' way. In other words, those who actually did the quests from 0-80ish.

If you'll allow me to toot my own horn for a bit: I have a 90+ barb, a 90+ cleric, and the character from which I am currently posting. Thus, I have played practically every instance available from a number of perspectives, including high level TTs, lunar, warsong, FC, and various fbs 19-99. Doing this has allowed me to develop an appreciation for the various difficulties each class has, and to learn ways to deal with these problems to ensure the survivability of both me and the squad. Unsurprisingly, many of of the people I people I run with comment on my skills, and I end up with great people on my friend's list.

Know something else?

I met a barb a while back while on my cleric. The barb seemed like a nice guy and moderately intelligent, but he made quite a few mistakes that would have caused me problems, if I had not anticipated them. On every single mob pull, for instance, he ran straight into bb without having aggroed the mobs in any way at all... the bm happened to not be especially quick to react, and so I was getting hit a lot. At the big room, I knew that if he repeated this, I'd die. I didn't die, of course, since I used a combo of my lvl 79 skills + plume shell + absolute domain + pots as the mobs came in, but during the absolute domain spell, the mobs all hit me at least once (ie, most clerics would have been toast).

So after the FC I asked him to wait a moment, cuz I had a few things to say to him. Trying to be as nice as I could, I told the guy that there were some techniques he could learn to improve his ability as a barbarian. (Memory fails me, but the barb had done a couple other mistakes that had made the squad not-too-happy at him). I said something to this effect: "There's nothing wrong with you. The thing is, most often there is only one barb in a squad, so what happens is, a barb has learn all the same tricks over and over. Few barbs ever get taught these tricks in advance, cuz nobody ever takes the time to tell them".

Well you know what? After I gave the guy a run-through on some of the things he could try, he was actually really appreciative. I've since run with him, and his skills are much improved, and, I would think, squads like him better for it.

So whats the point of this little story?

Basically this: don't assume, as a default, that when cleric/barb does something you think is stupid, that it means said barb/cleric IS stupid. Now I know this is often the case, but, sometimes, it is simply because nobody has ever shown them a better way. Or given the incredibly fast rate at which people level nowadays, a level 63 could be a newcomer to a bh51, and if you expect him/her to know the intricacies of each boss, and how to best approach healing/tanking/dding in every situation, you'll be badly mistaken.

Learn to be forgiving, try to sandwich your criticism so that it is constructive. Example: Instead of saying "Your tanking sucks, you fail", try, "Thanks for trying to tank. To get better at tanking this boss, why don't you try ____ and ____. If you do, I think you'll be much better at it". At the worst, the person ignores you and does what he/she has always done (which they would have done anyways if you hadn't said anything). Just ignore these people in future. If they actually implement your suggestions, and things turn out better for everybody, well, you've had a positive influence, and that is a great feeling I find.

Cheers,

Azzazin

i agree with everything you say, however i THINK (at least this is how I veiw the topic in this thread) everyone means how people woud generally do stupid things over and over again and even if you try to show them something different that would work better, they would basically go "**** you this is MY class i know how to play it."

also there is no denying the fact that some sqauds flat out lack common sense. example, as i have posted before, is how some people would run ahead and leave the cleric behind and start attacking the boss, how the hell can a healer heal when he's not even anywhere near the area? or how about a party with a dd who doesn't know how to regulate damage? it's pretty basic intel that if you do too much damage you'll get arrgo. my experience was with an archer that used skills for every attack and when told he needs to stop using skills he tells everyone to **** off.

there is a fine line between stupid and ignorant. ignorant is not knowing something, this can easily be corrcted by listening to people and honestly most people would listen to advice however there is no denying that there are also quite a few morons out there that do the opposite, stupid is not knowing something and yet act like you do and never accept advice that could help you. stupid is when you pull a leeroy jinkins and end up dead with the entire party then want to put the blame on someone else.

facepalm stupid squads

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*facepalm* stupid squads

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facepalm stupid squads