Archer or Sin?

Untrue, sins can get it just as easily if they use fists. I'm sure fists are no stranger to a sin than to an archer who's supposed to use a bow. (and sin daggs).

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

At worst, he will stealth back and gain a kill per 90 seconds -- effectively kinda disabling you from doing anything in the TW.

I lol'ed.

That's the exact problem: kinda. Either you have the sin do what you outlined and he ONLY attacks when he has an Ironguard and Shadow Escape ready, or he kamikaze's it. One kill every 90 seconds in TW is absolute garbage and a total waste of space.

Also, while I do think a well-coordinated sin squad would work and be effective (though honestly, good luck forming one with 90% of the sin population being egotistical d-bags who swear revenge on a person that killed them instead of thinking "maybe it's not so strategic to waste my time on this guy"), why do you have an entire SQUAD scouting? That seems like a waste too, not to mention damn confusing when you've got six people constantly reporting in.
Honestly though, as it's been said by someone in another thread, "if you can perfectly coordinate any squad in TW, you've already won the war."

But the problem is simply a sin is squishy as hell. Moreso than the actual squishies even, since sins lack both physical and magical defense. If a sin hits a cata cleric, all the cleric has to do is ironguard: that's it, then the entire attack is a failure and a waste. The sin will either quickly get shot down or it'll have to shadow escape. If it's ironguarded, as I said, that's a waste of space if you only attack every time ironguard is ready, and then there's nothing keeping your opponents from ironguarding just as much. At most a sin can slow and harrass a cata squad, but compared to what other classes could do, that's inferior. An archer has the range (and hella high crit damage) to harrass those squishies without dying after the first attack, thus slowing them even more. A Wizard has the AOEs to do serious damage to their target and all surrounding teammates. A Psy can soulburn the cleric and debuff the barb's charm, leaving the squad VERY vulnerable. A veno can purge an enemy and reduce them to being a one-shot. A sin? It's always an all-in attack, and an all-in attack with 80 opponents on the field, all of them charmed and buffed and watching each other's backs? That's just plain bad odds.



No way in hell a sin is a better TW candidate than an Archer. Or a wizard. Or a Psy. Or anything....

Dorset - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Who says? is there some rule about this? i like the extra power

couldn't let this go, in reference to the build being 2 str 8 dex every 2 levels. (maybe less dex for equipping fists, or a little extra vit)

yes, there is a rule about it, the rule is built into the armor.

yea but tw is not every day

Wuss - Harshlands wrote: »

then why did this person make a 5aps sage bm??? http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a56f55d451a1ba97

Did you look at the bracer?

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

One kill every 90 seconds in TW is absolute garbage and a total waste of space.

Do you realize what you are saying? Or is logic something you can't comprehend?

For a TW to be 'challenging' and not a steamroll, your faction's total kill-to-death ratio should not go over 1 by too much -- 2 at best. Now, cata barbs, BMs and clerics usually don't score many kills (unless metal mages and w/e), leaving the extra killing to the squishies.

However, a sin does not handicap this in the worst case scenario. Sure, a wiz would be better, but that is the worst case scenario. In a wiz' worst case scenario, he gets *****.

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Have you ever played a Sin in TW or are you just talking out of your ___.

No I haven't played a sin but yes I'm in a faction with sins. Without bothering you with details, because you won't believe them anyway, this sin tells me "lol I kill maybe 7 people before I die" or "I **** through cleric's plume shell after headhunt". (tt99 & some nirvana geared cleric)

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

When I Headhunt a cata Cleric, I take 2.5k damage back, which is about how much they are taking with buffs on. Then I get 700 damage back at me per each of my hit. I have 5k HP and I don't get Barb buff after death. At 2.22 attacks per second, how many seconds does it take for me to kill myself? The second I pop out, they domain then nix and arrows are flying all over me. There's something call Vent and people know when their Cleric is getting attacked.

That's not happening here, either clerics and barbs get purged, or you exaggerate the bramble damage? I'm not sure -- like I said, never done it myself, but seen it myself. You don't just attack clerics when you feel like it -- you attack when surrounding enemies are stunned or preoccupied, so that even if people jump on you, your team will get the advantage of rushing safely.

And you can use AD and force stealth back...

And what did I just tell you not to go alone -- if you pop out alone and expect to get a kill amongst enemies only, you are going to get ***** no doubt. That's like a wizard going in front leeroy style.

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Lol@ "Maze Steps->Ironguard->Subsea->Bramble->Earthen Rift->Stealth". When are squishies ever grouped together on the ground in a TW?

Idk when they aren't near enemies? Thinking they are safe? When they are overrun in base and you need to find a path in?

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Subsea+Bramble+Earthen isn't going to kill anything above 90 unless you triple spark first.

Wrong. That combo does much more damage than a wizard ulti with a decent BR genie. So null point really. Don't forget chill of the deep and/or double spark also.

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Do you realize what you are saying? Or is logic something you can't comprehend?

For a TW to be 'challenging' and not a steamroll, your faction's total kill-to-death ratio should not go over 1 by too much -- 2 at best. Now, cata barbs, BMs and clerics usually don't score many kills (unless metal mages and w/e), leaving the extra killing to the squishies.

However, a sin does not handicap this in the worst case scenario. Sure, a wiz would be better, but that is the worst case scenario. In a wiz' worst case scenario, he gets *****.No I haven't played a sin but yes I'm in a faction with sins. Without bothering you with details, because you won't believe them anyway, this sin tells me "lol I kill maybe 7 people before I die" or "I **** through cleric's plume shell after headhunt". (tt99 & some nirvana geared cleric)That's not happening here, either clerics and barbs get purged, or you exaggerate the bramble damage? I'm not sure -- like I said, never done it myself, but seen it myself. You don't just attack clerics when you feel like it -- you attack when surrounding enemies are stunned or preoccupied, so that even if people jump on you, your team will get the advantage of rushing safely.

And you can use AD and force stealth back...

And what did I just tell you not to go alone -- if you pop out alone and expect to get a kill amongst enemies only, you are going to get ***** no doubt. That's like a wizard going in front leeroy style.Idk when they aren't near enemies? Thinking they are safe? When they are overrun in base and you need to find a path in?Wrong. That combo does much more damage than a wizard ulti with a decent BR genie. So null point really. Don't forget chill of the deep and/or double spark also.

lol who let a sin do like 7 kills and not die before atk? its either pretty much exaggerated or the enemies dont know to target the attacker or they just have tt70 armors

No you don't pop out alone. When your team mates rush in, the enemy will focus on them because, you know, you have to stop the BMs from stunning? Stop their wizzies from getting off that ulti? When you see people coming at you do you think "wait I should not try and stop them cause sins will pop out rite? gotta be ready for sins only"... if you want to sacrifice everyone there just to kill the sin and get ***** by the BM's stunlocks and amps, you will fail.

If you think they have time to target 3-4 assassins in this case with the enemy rushing into and kill them easily, I'd say you are outnumbered. Or you pop out alone randomly "just like that" with no coordination. I believe they call stuff like this a "push". And when you stun them as a sin, not much they can do either.

Get off a kill like this, and you won't even have to force stealth most of the time -- your teammates should have rushed by then making you not the only target.

Oh and most people die from bramble rage, that's instant right after Subsea (which amplifies and damages) -- hardly any time to react and click AD. Earthen Rift has like what, 0.7 seconds channel... we all know damage is calculated after channel finishes, any AD after that won't stop you from getting hit by it.

Lvl11 headhunt dealing 1k damage with +10 nirvana daggers? You must have some epic pdef or I call it BS. Even with 75% reduction it means said sin must do 16k on a level 1 mob with that weapon. Pardon me but you can see why this is bull**** especially considering they probably use chill of the deep for skill spamming.

The +9 nirvana sin does 5k fairly regularly.

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Ok? That further shows that statement about Archer being the only sage 5 APS is wrong? If you know that Sin can also be 5 APS sage, don't say that Archer is the only class that can?

It means the stuff you pointed out as already been addressed. Just in case you can't read.

ignore poorsuc, he regularly just complains about how hard things are, and how much his mage sucks in TW, wahwahwahwah bawwwww. he has no idea how to tw, michael kind of shows this every time he makes a post.