Recent TW Changes: Mages now useless?

Loltank - Harshlands
Loltank - Harshlands Posts: 747 Arc User
edited September 2010 in Wizard
Well, we all know mages are feared most on the TW battlefield, but now that TW is starting to go the way of the dodo on Harshlands I've been rethinking my decision to play mage.

Anyone else have thoughts on this? Maybe share similar feelings? Or another reason to continue playing mage?
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Post edited by Loltank - Harshlands on
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  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    Well, we all know mages are feared most on the TW battlefield. But now that TW is starting to go the way of the dodo on Harshlands I've been rethinking my decision to play mage.

    Anyone else have thoughts on this? Maybe share similar feelings? Or another reason to continue playing mage?
    Mages is the useless class in this version PWI. Thanks to dev. and their -interval gear. They ruined all idea of PVE. Unfortunately. Another words. You have no chance to earn money because you are useless in squads. Maybe TW is better but nowadays without perfect gear you have no chance in TW neither. And perfect gear=lot of money.
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  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    Well, we all know mages are feared most on the TW battlefield, but now that TW is starting to go the way of the dodo on Harshlands I've been rethinking my decision to play mage.

    Anyone else have thoughts on this? Maybe share similar feelings? Or another reason to continue playing mage?

    For the fun?
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • Damaged - Lost City
    Damaged - Lost City Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    World pvp

    Make alt sin\bm\veno for pve

    ???
  • Loltank - Harshlands
    Loltank - Harshlands Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Damaged - Lost City wrote: »
    World pvp

    Make alt sin\bm\veno for pve

    ???


    Well, see that's the thing. Most other classes are just as good if not better than us at World PvP, and it's to the point where I'm about to just fullbind my 97 mage's gear and use him to RPK while I level another character.

    I guess my question is if there's any reason NOT to do this?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Aquagirl - Raging Tide
    Aquagirl - Raging Tide Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    nope, none.
    playing a wizard hasn't been worth it for a long while. There are little to no new endgame wizards, but Sins, archers and BMs are everywhere these days. Guess why...
  • Yreccils - Harshlands
    Yreccils - Harshlands Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Sad truth, wizards pretty much blow in endgame pve and aren't really wanted in instances anymore (yes, even less than before... b:sad).

    I just use my 95 wizzie atm as a catshop and to make cube/oht daily to earn extra coins while leveling up a fist archer. Had one at 85 already else I definately would've made a sin.

    Just don't abandon your wiz completely... you never know which insane changes PWE could implement sooner or later, so wizzies could pwn once again b:laugh
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Aquagirl - Raging Tide wrote: »
    nope, none.
    playing a wizard hasn't been worth it for a long while. There are little to no new endgame wizards, but Sins, archers and BMs are everywhere these days. Guess why...

    I bet it's because a sin can do this
    http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c286/Emerald_Mystic/IceDragon1.jpg
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    Well, we all know mages are feared most on the TW battlefield, but now that TW is starting to go the way of the dodo on Harshlands I've been rethinking my decision to play mage.

    Anyone else have thoughts on this? Maybe share similar feelings? Or another reason to continue playing mage?

    I honestly feel exactly this way. I've been making an alt cleric so that I'm actually useful for instances and I can farm stuff, but this character sits unused except for the very short TW once a week that nobody cares about anymore. If essence ever goes rpk, I'll go rpking as well, but right now pking is boring.
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  • Tainaker - Harshlands
    Tainaker - Harshlands Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    mmm...

    had a 90 bm (used to get owned by wizzies in open pk, well good wizzies) got tired of doing instances save DDs asses of being a HF machine or fist anything to the death while going afk for like forever (gv/rbs were lot of fun tho) realized that i wanted to do something more than ran into ppl stun-HF em then get ***** in tw...

    reroll an archer...cheap and fun class, pretty good for pve and deadly for open pk and again got owned by 90+ wizzies (with average gear) got tired of pve...and like tw is pretty much dead anyways i rerolled here...LF the only thing is still fun in pw...open pk (yeah i know isnt fun when a group of cs's show up and 1 shot e1 but still u can find ppl around ur lvl to pk against with) and made a wizzie cuz...well i used to get ***** by wizzies at "end game" + is a pretty weird class, pretty good for FC and gv/rbs...


    so dont tell me know that it sux or ill rage quit and reroll a sin to go stealth + spark *insert name of skills here* + bramble rage and feel like zomg im a pro -_-
  • Loltank - Harshlands
    Loltank - Harshlands Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Tainaker - Harshlands wrote: »
    mmm...

    had a 90 bm (used to get owned by wizzies in open pk, well good wizzies) got tired of doing instances save DDs asses of being a HF machine or fist anything to the death while going afk for like forever (gv/rbs were lot of fun tho) realized that i wanted to do something more than ran into ppl stun-HF em then get ***** in tw...

    reroll an archer...cheap and fun class, pretty good for pve and deadly for open pk and again got owned by 90+ wizzies (with average gear) got tired of pve...and like tw is pretty much dead anyways i rerolled here...LF the only thing is still fun in pw...open pk (yeah i know isnt fun when a group of cs's show up and 1 shot e1 but still u can find ppl around ur lvl to pk against with) and made a wizzie cuz...well i used to get ***** by wizzies at "end game" + is a pretty weird class, pretty good for FC and gv/rbs...


    so dont tell me know that it sux or ill rage quit and reroll a sin to go stealth + spark *insert name of skills here* + bramble rage and feel like zomg im a pro -_-

    I'll save you some time: if you don't have a lot of cash to spend, you're not going to be as good in open pvp as any -interval class. That's the black and white of it.

    Without TW, I'm beginning to see just how pointless it would be to invest any sort of dime into my mage just to be outmatched in world pvp by factors beyond my control.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Tainaker - Harshlands
    Tainaker - Harshlands Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    I'll save you some time: if you don't have a lot of cash to spend, you're not going to be as good in open pvp as any -interval class. That's the black and white of it.

    Without TW, I'm beginning to see just how pointless it would be to invest any sort of dime into my mage just to be outmatched in world pvp by factors beyond my control.

    but that ^ is not a valid point...any cs no matter the class, is going to own e1 but other cs or ppl that had plenty of time to gear up properly farm for months to get good refines/weapons/shards etc etc...

    so basically u r saying

    I'll save you some time: if you don't have a lot of cash to spend on ur *insert your class here* dont play pw cuz u r going to get owned...which is sadly true but thats why i rerolled in HL to pk ppl around my lvl with average gear
  • Loltank - Harshlands
    Loltank - Harshlands Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Tainaker - Harshlands wrote: »

    but that ^ is not a valid point...any cs no matter the class, is going to own e1 but other cs or ppl that had plenty of time to gear up properly farm for months to get good refines/weapons/shards etc etc...

    so basically u r saying

    I'll save you some time: if you don't have a lot of cash to spend on ur *insert your class here* dont play pw cuz u r going to get owned...which is sadly true but thats why i rerolled in HL to pk ppl around my lvl with average gear

    No, what I'm saying is that at endgame you're going to be laughed off or outright wrecked by any half decent sin or fist BM without dropping some serious cash.

    in this game, any class that can get -interval (most of which is farmable, albeit difficult) is going to destroy you unless they're A: terrble, or B: you cash shop like a ****.
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  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    No, what I'm saying is that at endgame you're going to be laughed off or outright wrecked by any half decent sin or fist BM without dropping some serious cash.

    in this game, any class that can get -interval (most of which is farmable, albeit difficult) is going to destroy you unless they're A: terrble, or B: you cash shop like a ****.

    even though fist bms can kill me in like 1 second flat.. at least I can put up a fight by kiting like a **** and attempt to bypass their charm. A sin on the other hand kills me in that same 1 second, but I cant see them coming, cant kite them, and need to kill them twice b4 they drop. I stopped leaving sz when sins started reaching end game. (at least by myself)
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  • Tainaker - Harshlands
    Tainaker - Harshlands Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    No, what I'm saying is that at endgame you're going to be laughed off or outright wrecked by any half decent sin or fist BM without dropping some serious cash.

    mmm same with archers, psys, venos, other sins and clerics...i mean i know what u mean but is the same with all the LA/Arcane users so i dont see it as a valid point to not roll a wizzie...+ u can always try expel and A.D.

    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    in this game, any class that can get -interval (most of which is farmable, albeit difficult) is going to destroy you unless they're A: terrble, or B: you cash shop like a ****.

    see post above
  • Loltank - Harshlands
    Loltank - Harshlands Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Expel and AD let you survive long enough... to do like no damage and then die later.

    It's just the nature of this game now. 5 APS or gtfo. Sure, you can do 2.6k per long-*** spell to BMs, MAYBE 5k with dragon, but why bother? They'll just Occult Ice you and murder you. Whether they have to wait on AD or Expel to do it is irrelevant.

    Clerics can heal, they're needed in this game. Psys have white voodoo and soulburn, so they can at least offer a token resistance in pvp. They also do far more DPS than mages. archers also get hit hard by the TW changes, except worse cause they're a worse endgame class than mage. Venos can't farm TT as well anymore.

    Essentially, what I'm saying is to just roll a ****ing 5 APS char. Don't roll anything else, ever. The sky's the limit when they cash shop. When other classes cash shop, it's just to play catch up.

    Casters in PWI, aside from clerics, are almost completely obsolete. Name one situation outside of FC/GV and TW where a mage is preferred to a 5APS char for DDing. You can't. We've been replaced.



    EDIT: @ Adroit: before you get 99 ultis, you're not bypassing a charm on a good fist BM. If they have 5 APS, they'll have more than enough HP to tank a pre-99 dragon, assuming you even have chi. They're just going to occult ice you and you're done. I agree totally on the sins thing, though.

    I just left a pvp encounter where the best I could do was seal a fist BM, spam distance shrink, and then get off one spell(two with sleep) before I got stunned and murdered. It was literally impossible to do anything else. AD/Expel, Ironguards, didn't matter. They'd just drop and wait for it to fade before coming back.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Roin - Harshlands
    Roin - Harshlands Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    Expel and AD let you survive long enough... to do like no damage and then die later.

    It's just the nature of this game now. 5 APS or gtfo. Sure, you can do 2.6k per long-*** spell to BMs, MAYBE 5k with dragon, but why bother? They'll just Occult Ice you and murder you. Whether they have to wait on AD or Expel to do it is irrelevant.

    Clerics can heal, they're needed in this game. Psys have white voodoo and soulburn, so they can at least offer a token resistance in pvp. They also do far more DPS than mages. archers also get hit hard by the TW changes, except worse cause they're a worse endgame class than mage. Venos can't farm TT as well anymore.

    Essentially, what I'm saying is to just roll a ****ing 5 APS char. Don't roll anything else, ever. The sky's the limit when they cash shop. When other classes cash shop, it's just to play catch up.

    Casters in PWI, aside from clerics, are almost completely obsolete. Name one situation outside of FC/GV and TW where a mage is preferred to a 5APS char for DDing. You can't. We've been replaced.



    EDIT: @ Adroit: before you get 99 ultis, you're not bypassing a charm on a good fist BM. If they have 5 APS, they'll have more than enough HP to tank a pre-99 dragon, assuming you even have chi. They're just going to occult ice you and you're done. I agree totally on the sins thing, though.

    I just left a pvp encounter where the best I could do was seal a fist BM, spam distance shrink, and then get off one spell(two with sleep) before I got stunned and murdered. It was literally impossible to do anything else. AD/Expel, Ironguards, didn't matter. They'd just drop and wait for it to fade before coming back.

    Most 5aps chars have low magic def because they use the p def 99 neck/belt there are ways to kill them but occult ice will mess things up and it depends on there hp/ if they have a charm if you know there hp is not very high you can try this sleep>undine>FOW>and then sutra sandstorm>MS and finsih them off if they have some hp left you should be able to do that in the 6 sec stun and its damage is not far off dragon so 2/3 of the time it passes there charm if they have one and if you can get them with magic marrow off it can be a easy kill maby i should make a genie with occult ice and start stun locking people xD

    but other then the little world pvp i find i don't see any real point playing a wiz anymore when there are about no tw's im playing a archer for pve and world pve now becuase i have nothing to look forward to on my wiz =\
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Roin - Harshlands wrote: »
    Most 5aps chars have low magic def because they use the p def 99 neck/belt there are ways to kill them but occult ice will mess things up and it depends on there hp/ if they have a charm if you know there hp is not very high you can try this sleep>undine>FOW>and then sutra sandstorm>MS and finsih them off if they have some hp left you should be able to do that in the 6 sec stun and its damage is not far off dragon so 2/3 of the time it passes there charm if they have one and if you can get them with magic marrow off it can be a easy kill maby i should make a genie with occult ice and start stun locking people xD

    but other then the little world pvp i find i don't see any real point playing a wiz anymore when there are about no tw's im playing a archer for pve and world pve now becuase i have nothing to look forward to on my wiz =\

    I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I had to waste our amazing instant sleep that has a 2 min cooldown to get off undine.
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  • Tainaker - Harshlands
    Tainaker - Harshlands Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    u r going to make me cry Q_Q

    i like my wizzie i dont wanna reroll in a melee, got bored of those classes i can probably roll a barb but yeah they sux for tw (u can go fist barb tho) the only other class left that i would play would be a cleric but meh they r main targets in tws not like i have the time to tw anymore but i can try it once in a while...at least for fun T_T


    this sht is just like i realized santa didnt exist b:cry
  • Loltank - Harshlands
    Loltank - Harshlands Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    If you plan to TW you're on the wrong server regardless, dude.

    Harshlands TWs last 5 minutes. The only wars that last longer are between non-factor guilds.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    The truth is, all game is totally broken, unbalanced and deserve to die. It happen sooner than later. The new interesting mmorpg coming out and it will be last nail to this coffin.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Tainaker - Harshlands
    Tainaker - Harshlands Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The truth is, all game is totally broken, unbalanced and deserve to die. It happen sooner than later. The new interesting mmorpg coming out and it will be last nail to this coffin.

    FW? o_O
    /5chars
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The truth is, all game is totally broken, unbalanced and deserve to die. It happen sooner than later. The new interesting mmorpg coming out and it will be last nail to this coffin.

    False, Pong be totally fine (after some equipment changes), perfectly balanced, and still one of the best games you humans has made.
    b:bye
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  • Tainaker - Harshlands
    Tainaker - Harshlands Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    If you plan to TW you're on the wrong server regardless, dude.

    Harshlands TWs last 5 minutes. The only wars that last longer are between non-factor guilds.

    nah i said i can tw once in a while i rerolled for the open pk...tw in my old server are pretty good
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Tainaker - Harshlands wrote: »
    nah i said i can tw once in a while i rerolled for the open pk...tw in my old server are pretty good

    Come to LC, we has false hope.
    b:avoid
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
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    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Roin - Harshlands
    Roin - Harshlands Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I had to waste our amazing instant sleep that has a 2 min cooldown to get off undine.

    only would need to do that if they are close sry just used to geting jumped alot and a instant sleep wont let them have a chance to stun me after AD is gone should have explaned more but i was busy b:surrender
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Roin - Harshlands wrote: »
    only would need to do that if they are close sry just used to geting jumped alot and a instant sleep wont let them have a chance to stun me after AD is gone should have explaned more but i was busy b:surrender

    Sleep is your greatest tool in your arsenal to bypass charms. Get someone to 50-60% hp, insta sleep ulti to bypass their charm. You REALLY need to use it sparringly because of the long cooldown. You should only use sleep defensively as a LAST resort. Domain gives you 2 seconds of anti stun after invinsible ends, you could blink, and my personal favorite.. genie skill fortify to prevent gettin stunned by a bm, not even mentioning being aware of your surroundings or pk pots. Guess I'm just "a sleep should only be used to hold someone still for a nuke".. ****.
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  • Shevanel - Sanctuary
    Shevanel - Sanctuary Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    There are plenty of ways to take down or survive a bm with 5aps. Just as a suggestion, if you're ready, see a bm coming, undine, 3spark, fortify, iron guard, spam skills.

    If they spark after you do, blink away and sleep when they come at you. after a three spark they won't usually be able to use will of bod unless they get enough from marrow.

    Generally fist bm have lower HP due to dex for wield/crit and str for base damage.

    Basically you have to be better prepared than the bm, but not everything is against a Wizzie winning..
    Koiz - omfg my life is now complete
    Shevanel - haha oh?
    ~~~
    Koiz - i took this massive dump
    Koiz - while listening to im on a boat hahahah
    Shevanel - hahahahaha
    Shevanel - haha
    Shevanel - Oh wow

    Certain levels of Boredom..
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  • Roin - Harshlands
    Roin - Harshlands Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    Sleep is your greatest tool in your arsenal to bypass charms. Get someone to 50-60% hp, insta sleep ulti to bypass their charm. You REALLY need to use it sparringly because of the long cooldown. You should only use sleep defensively as a LAST resort. Domain gives you 2 seconds of anti stun after invinsible ends, you could blink, and my personal favorite.. genie skill fortify to prevent gettin stunned by a bm, not even mentioning being aware of your surroundings or pk pots. Guess I'm just "a sleep should only be used to hold someone still for a nuke".. ****.

    yeah i know i don't use it like that most of the time but its good vs sin who can time there skills right and it can be use full if you cant survive very long vs your enemy most of the time i can win 1v1's very fast and easy with the few um fighting styles? i have started testing out but if someone comes along right after him im dead unless i have chi pots on me b:surrender

    and how long dose fortify last? sounds like a skill i can use on my genie lol
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Roin - Harshlands wrote: »
    yeah i know i don't use it like that most of the time but its good vs sin who can time there skills right and it can be use full if you cant survive very long vs your enemy most of the time i can win 1v1's very fast and easy with the few um fighting styles? i have started testing out but if someone comes along right after him im dead unless i have chi pots on me b:surrender

    and how long dose fortify last? sounds like a skill i can use on my genie lol

    if you have no dex on your genie.. like 3 seconds. Every 30 dex increases the duration by 1 sec. Mine lasts 4 seconds (old **** genie that I need to get rid of) but it is AMAZING against bms/barbs. Keep it at lvl 1 if you learn it though, its only really useful against physical classes, so lvling the skill only reduces the chance of the mdef reduction at the cost of increasing the energy cost.
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  • MrHanky - Harshlands
    MrHanky - Harshlands Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    the only reason u even use fortify is so u can attack and move after ironguard
    no other reason to use it really
    b:bye
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