Recent TW Changes: Mages now useless?

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

/facepalm

Barbs have highest DPH with Armageddon with the proper refined gear.
Barbs have nice DPS (not the best but much better than any melee class) with claws and 4 aps or 5 aps even.

Again you have no idea what you are talking about. But no wonder, at your level, there is no -interval or 30k HP barbs.

Here's a tip for you. Did you know at endgame, archers use claws or fists with a lot of attacks per second instead of bows, because they do 3 to 4 times more damage than using their bows? (talking about PvE instances here ofc)

Archers with bows already do more DPS than magic classes. Use some logic it's not hard.

I don't think you can understand how much 5 attacks per second actually means.

a barb with claws is no longer a barb. Its a lame auto attack thing. Same with archers.

You cant say, Oh barbs have nice DPS if they use a weapon not meant for the class. Thats like me saying X person is sexy with britney spearsbody and face. Technically that person is no longer themself, just a lame version of britney spears

cwatididthar?

Tainaker - Harshlands

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

a barb with claws is no longer a barb. Its a lame auto attack thing. Same with archers.

You cant say, Oh barbs have nice DPS if they use a weapon not meant for the class. Thats like me saying X person is sexy with britney spearsbody and face. Technically that person is no longer themself, just a lame version of britney spears

cwatididthar?

i mean is an option like making an HA veno, or making an idk HA cleric...is just the way it is...still claws barbs sux for TWs imo is a bm w/o skills pretty easy to kill. ijs

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Tainaker - Harshlands wrote: »

i mean is an option like making an HA veno, or making an idk HA cleric...is just the way it is...still claws barbs sux for TWs imo is a bm w/o skills pretty easy to kill. ijs

no its not like HA veno

Whats the difference between an HA veno and an AA/LA veno

its just the armor and the HA veno may be more likely to use fox form but the HA veno can still use pets and still use venos skills.

Clawbarbs cant give HP buff while using claws or do any other barb thing. As you said, its a Bm without skills aka not a barb.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

no its not like HA veno

Whats the difference between an HA veno and an AA/LA veno

its just the armor and the HA veno may be more likely to use fox form but the HA veno can still use pets and still use venos skills.

Clawbarbs cant give HP buff while using claws or do any other barb thing. As you said, its a Bm without skills aka not a barb.

they simply switch to axes for it and go tiger and turtle in squads that are about to wipe in my personal experience
somewhat the best thing to have in Nirvana or TT, the overpowered DDs tank stuff they can tank with barb buffs amplifying theyr attack and the barb is dealing great chunks of damage too
doesnt need 5 aps.. 3-4 is also more damage then many wizard :P

a fist barb can farm faster -> more coin -> better gear > there u are good hp
(no good for cata barb >_>)


wich is exactly the wizards big problem
no or slow farming instances -> no coin -> cant keep up in gear with BM/Archer/Stabbiefish/Cleric
assuming every class is able to cash shop or merchant

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

they simply switch to axes for it and go tiger and turtle in squads that are about to wipe in my personal experience
somewhat the best thing to have in Nirvana or TT, the overpowered DDs tank stuff they can tank with barb buffs amplifying theyr attack and the barb is dealing great chunks of damage too
doesnt need 5 aps.. 3-4 is also more damage then many wizard :P

a fist barb can farm faster -> more coin -> better gear > there u are good hp
(no good for cata barb >_>)


wich is exactly the wizards big problem
no or slow farming instances -> no coin -> cant keep up in gear with BM/Archer/Stabbiefish/Cleric
assuming every class is able to cash shop or merchant

Exactly. This just one thing from bundle, why is game broken.

Brishi - Dreamweaver

Wizards do good dmg, can heal and have a buff that sins love

So in pwe it cant be so bad. They should fix sins stealth so thire stealth lvl is same as theire lvl.

Now a 60 sin have a stealth lvl on 80:/


Sorry for my bad english.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

a barb with claws is no longer a barb. Its a lame auto attack thing. Same with archers.

Does it even matter when most endgame barbs who farm restat to claws. b:surrender

And I made a lame mistake... said more damage "than any melee class" should have been 'magic' obviously. b:embarrass

Paimage - Harshlands

I have to say, whats really broken is not classes doing 5 dmg/sec but sins as a class being capable doing very high damage+stealth+5/sec... that combination is broken, its like a wizard with a nix(bugged bleed) and a Barbs true form phy def.

fulgida

I just wanted to remind you all:

Fists have high single target DPS.

However, given enough targets, a wizard can out-DPS +12 5APS dual sharded fists by factors of 2, 5, 10+. And, with better physical defense than some (but not all) 5aps fist users.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

fulgida wrote: »

I just wanted to remind you all:

Fists have high single target DPS.

However, given enough targets, a wizard can out-DPS +12 5APS dual sharded fists by factors of 2, 5, 10+. And, with better physical defense than some (but not all) 5aps fist users.

doesnt help u at all at getting better gear

Borsuc - Raging Tide

fulgida wrote: »

Fists have high single target DPS.

Not like BMs don't have awesome AOE skills with Axes as well.

fulgida wrote: »

However, given enough targets, a wizard can out-DPS +12 5APS dual sharded fists by factors of 2, 5, 10+. And, with better physical defense than some (but not all) 5aps fist users.

Factor of 10? Is that, what, 60 targets?

Wizard won't out-DPS the said fist user simply because a dead wizard doesn't damage at all.

And besides, Dragon's Breath is the only AOE skill we have for DPS... nothing else is constantly spammable.

fulgida

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Not like BMs don't have awesome AOE skills with Axes as well.

Factor of 10? Is that, what, 60 targets?

DPS is situational, but consider how much DPS a fist user will get against an opposing horde of people on your crystal.

And then try and tell me that the rank 9 drop from TW is useless for your gear. (Mind you, it would be a small tiny step, but any gear at that level involves lots of small tiny steps.)

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

erm.
ok.. im not wizzy or claw so im may know wrong

and im not archer so im not good in math but about wizzy's usefulness as DD in squads:


if 4k p.att fist user does 1600 dmg per hit on NV boss on spark (perm spark)


and 10k m.att wizzy add to it:

- 450 dmg with 10lvl frostblade

- 600 dmg with sage frost

- and 750 dmg with demon


+ plus dmg from normal DD


then why the heck nobody takes wizzes to full party NV runs?

1 wizze should contribute more dmg than 4th fist-DD in squad



did i miss something?

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

erm.
ok.. im not wizzy or claw so im may know wrong

and im not archer so im not good in math but about wizzy's usefulness as DD in squads:


if 4k p.att fist user does 1600 dmg per hit on NV boss on spark (perm spark)


and 10k m.att wizzy add to it:

- 450 dmg with 10lvl frostblade

- 600 dmg with sage frost

- and 750 dmg with demon


+ plus dmg from normal DD


then why the heck nobody takes wizzes to full party NV runs?

1 wizze should contribute more dmg than 4th fist-DD in squad



did i miss something?

I think you wrong. If he has 5 ats. He doing 5 attacks per second. So if he has for example just 500 per attack he doing 2500 damage per 1!!!! second. Wizard with channeling and casting never can outdamage this. And if he use spark his damage will be even much more.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Try reading the post before bashing it.

What he meant to say is that wizard deals additional damage by buffing BMs/Assassins (but also Archers and Barbarians) with Frostblade.

Tainaker - Harshlands

what i got from this thread

wizzies r usefull in pve if know what u r doing
like we all know are deadly for tws even if tws r dead now
not that bad in 1v1s if u r not fighting a 5aps barb/bm/sin

i think we r good xD + i spoke with lolla or something from zulu and she said shes doing pretty good in openk pk, she had a +5 neon purgatory i think.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

i try to get demon frostblade and convince everyone its the best thing ever :O

TrueDMG - Sanctuary

The Problem is Frostblade does add dmg 30% equal to the Buffed person Weapon DMG NOT to the buffer ones mage attack!!!!.
i tryed it with an 102 werefox in fb99 on this phys immun boss. he did zero dmg without FB and around 240 dmg non sparked non crit with FB.
My mag attack was around 11k when i buffed him , his weapon a TT99crit gold sword +7 with 2 garnet Gems.

btw i sold my Deamon Fb after this test

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

owww

that sucks..

Shevanel - Sanctuary

If I remember the explanation of FB properly - it increases the melee's attack damage by the percentage of their patk. Not the mages Matk.

Think about it.. if it was based off a mages matk, you could go around buffing lvl 1 BMs and watch them 1shot lvl 10 mobs. Don't work out, does it..

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

TrueDMG - Sanctuary wrote: »

The Problem is Frostblade does add dmg 30% equal to the Buffed person Weapon DMG NOT to the buffer ones mage attack!!!!.
i tryed it with an 102 werefox in fb99 on this phys immun boss. he did zero dmg without FB and around 240 dmg non sparked non crit with FB.
My mag attack was around 11k when i buffed him , his weapon a TT99crit gold sword +7 with 2 garnet Gems.

btw i sold my Deamon Fb after this test

Why won't you test it again with a class that does proper melee damage? :P

TrueDMG - Sanctuary

i guess you have no idea groovy what a Sage WF aka heavy intervall veno can do melee b:chuckle

Moobysnax - Lost City

Psy ftw

Tainaker - Harshlands

fist wizzie ftw