Best 5.0 chars

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Comments

  • Roin - Harshlands
    Roin - Harshlands Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    Obviously mage.

    Ridiculous pdef, decent HP with armor refines, and you have emberstorm and frostblade!!111!

    The day i quit pwi for good im so going to sell evreyhting i have get a good HA set and go 5 aps just for fun lol
  • Kitamura - Lost City
    Kitamura - Lost City Posts: 253 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Dunno if this was already said or not..not reading the whole thread but..

    2nd cast nirvana pants with r8 chest..wouldn't that make it 5.0 sage?

    thats still 4.0 max
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Kitamura - Lost City wrote: »
    thats still 4.0 max

    This. Daggers are 0.1 interval behind fists, so having a natural 5.0 with them is effectively impossible.
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Kitamura - Lost City wrote: »
    thats still 4.0 max

    I'd still say take the 4.0 aps God of Frenzy over 5.0 APS none, simply because the difference in DPS is small and the former has much, much higher DPH potential, especially with Sage Wolf Emblem.

    But then again, there's the issue that Barrier Thorn:Nirvana is a guaranteed -0.1, costs about 150-200M less than Dark Death Thorn, and you'd potentially spend quite some time rerolling for for God of Frenzy and -0.05 interval.
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

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  • Pyrya - Archosaur
    Pyrya - Archosaur Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I say archer simply for the fact they can go sage AND reach 5 aps.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=810512656ae868a1

    So as you can see, if bill gates made an archer.... i +12ed his **** for the lulz

    Anyways, the archer would be able to keep a constant sage spark, giving him a constant 25% damage reduction. He would be able to use ornaments other than asura/lionheart ornaments that BM and sin HAVE to use to get 5 aps. Not to mention in PVP he'd be able to attack with a bow first then sodomize them up close using that constant sage spark.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    truekossy wrote: »
    For PvE damage, Sin > BM > Archer. Sins get the greatest advantage since they can have 5.0 while being pure dex, which would result in something like http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f7b5814585d1d959 (yes, it's unsparked). BMs, and by extension archers, on the other hand would need to split their stats between str and Dex with archers having less str. However, the archers would be able to reach 5.0 sparked with far more ease and if the archer made it to 5.0 unsparked, they would have higher survivability via sage spark.
    ok i only read the first page but im kinda disappointed that nobody mentioned venos

    ok you said sin version is that one, now bm version would be
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1f9c7c58e618acc3
    it does have lower attack and less crit rate and just a bit better survivability
    now take that bm build and use it on veno. now im gonna use demon veno over sage for ome reason:
    - doesnt matter if you are sage or demon you dont get reduce channeling or atk speed increase
    - sage melee mastery is 200% weapon while demon is just 150% and 3% crit
    - now the interesting part, sage get 500% weapon atk while demon get 650% weapon atk sparked. not even bm's or sins get 650% sparked, just 500% like sage venos

    here is the result unsparked: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=065ce687899ce558
    as you can see is not far behind your sin in physical atk and has 650% weapon atk sparked instead of 500%. now you'll say that you cant get 5aps. yes you can, there is one spammable genie skills (that is not rentless w/e) and can get you up to 5
    in terms of defenses, if you make this build LA veno you still have like HA defenses
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=93c198c51b588a2a
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    ok i only read the first page but im kinda disappointed that nobody mentioned venos

    Already did a few pages back.
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  • Egaenil - Heavens Tear
    Egaenil - Heavens Tear Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Crack is you saying that I said that anything was better than anything else, except for your failed HA sin build which would be horrible.

    Oooh yay, you posted something I didn't read an hour ago. I'm pretty sure I've seen Phirefly from LC get top 5 overall in Neinbeast a number of times with only +6 claws more than a month before you made that post?

    So what was your point?

    edit: yeah Phirefly is a 4.0 unsparked claw veno... if I were on crack I'd say you came to LC saw it and are claiming it's your idea or something stupid...

    You must be taking some crack thats for sure.

    LOL hows HA sin failed? I'm talking about pve, hows pve HA sin failed? b:chuckle
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You must be taking some crack thats for sure.

    LOL hows HA sin failed? I'm talking about pve, hows pve HA sin failed? b:chuckle

    That's like saying HA PvE archer wouldn't be fail.

    /inb4Kitamuralolsatu

    Ok, instead of calling you a moron, I'll explain why you are one.

    Sins are DD, that's their primary purpose. However, well geared, they can tank.

    Putting them in HA requires them to waste stat points they could put into dex.

    Bloodpaint healing relies on damage. So if you want a tanking sin, you want to refine your daggers as much as you can and to get your dex as high as you can to offer you the most healing. Put them in HA, their damage is gimped, their healing is gimped and they'll die even more quickly.

    I mean, really... how many oracles and hypers have you used? Stuff like this should be pretty common knowledge for a 10x even if you don't play the class.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    ok i only read the first page but im kinda disappointed that nobody mentioned venos
    Well they weren't part of the original question, so I never really commented on them.

    ok you said sin version is that one, now bm version would be
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1f9c7c58e618acc3
    it does have lower attack and less crit rate and just a bit better survivability
    now take that bm build and use it on veno. now im gonna use demon veno over sage for ome reason:
    - doesnt matter if you are sage or demon you dont get reduce channeling or atk speed increase
    - sage melee mastery is 200% weapon while demon is just 150% and 3% crit
    - now the interesting part, sage get 500% weapon atk while demon get 650% weapon atk sparked. not even bm's or sins get 650% sparked, just 500% like sage venos
    Personally, if that build were purely for APS, I'd switch out the evasion ornaments for Phys ones and use LA wrists/boots instead for the added survivability. That's just being nitpicky though. However, there are some problems you haven't taken into account I'll go over on the next one.
    here is the result unsparked: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=065ce687899ce558
    as you can see is not far behind your sin in physical atk and has 650% weapon atk sparked instead of 500%. now you'll say that you cant get 5aps. yes you can, there is one spammable genie skills (that is not rentless w/e) and can get you up to 5
    in terms of defenses, if you make this build LA veno you still have like HA defenses
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=93c198c51b588a2a
    Now see, here's where it kinda falls apart. For one thing, this entire thing relies on the exploit of breaking your ear to equip it while in fox or taking advantage of lag to do it. Both are no-nos and can get you banned if caught, much like Barbs using fists in tiger. Remove the glitch and now your max damage is below the fist BM's minimum while you have the exact same stats and gears.

    Next up, there's the genie reliance. While you an use wind shield to keep up with 5.0, you'll only be able to use it so many times before the genie runs out of energy and needs to recharge. Combine that with the fact that it lasts for only about half the duration of a triple spark and... well... you'd only be able to go through about 3 to 4 sparks worth of wind shield (assuming you have at least an EN regen of 2/sec and 150 energy) before the genie runs out of energy. And that's without taking into account the cast time of sparking itself.

    Then, as if that wasn't enough, you'd also have to consider chi. Melees (and archers) all get 5 chi per regular attack, allowing them to build their three sparks every 12 seconds and thus, stay permasparked at 5.0. However, if they have 4.0 and start at full sparks, after about 4 or so they'll have to spend a bit of extra time to build sparks as they won't have been able to keep up on chi. Venos, on the other hand, only get 4 chi per attack, so a veno with 5.0 is basically in the same boat as a BM/Barb/Assassin/Archer with 4.0. This means every 4 or so sparks (how inconvenient that this is at around the same time wind shield would need to recharge), the veno would need some way to build sparks again. Now if it were one of the other classes at 4.0, they could just use their genie for that. A veno, on the other hand, would be waiting for their genie to recharge for wind shield at around that time and would thus either need someone to pass them a spark, to use an apoth for spark, or to DD unsparked until they were at the point where they could cycle through again.




    I completely agree that a veno using the fox fist glitch and who has 4.0 base is a force to be reckoned with and should be considered in this lineup... but a veno also has far more issues overall with both attaining and maintaining permasparked DPS as opposed to the other classes that can do it.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    where does it say that you dont have to wear other weapons in fox/true form? ok so its bannable? ok then bannable my ****, there are people pking all day in sp and quest spots, there are people killing bosses from top all day long... gm's are non-existent

    idk why ppl spend 800mil-1b coins on imaginary builds but cant build a genie with 120+ mag? even if you dont want want to spam wind shield you can use it for lvl 1 cloud eruption for perma spark and alternate with chi pots. its not like 4-5aps builds spend much time at one boss, its like a few minutes. even at max 4.0 atk speed its still like double or more physical atk than archers plus you still get that 650% weapon atk plus best defences. anyway, its not that practical and strong like sins or bm's but i consider this better than fist archers or HA fist sins imo

    idk about sage bm's, i guess they can use wind shield too or cyclone heel. even if the lose a bit time on skill it boost their atk for next 20 seconds
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Anything is "bannable" since PWE reserves the right to ban people for any reason at their own discretion. The real question is not "Can they ban for this?" but rather "Do they ban for this?".

    I believe the answer so far is 'No'.
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  • Rawthorne - Heavens Tear
    Rawthorne - Heavens Tear Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Anything is "bannable" since PWE reserves the right to ban people for any reason at their own discretion. The real question is not "Can they ban for this?" but rather "Do they ban for this?".

    I believe the answer so far is 'No'.

    My friend was summoned to GM Isle a few weeks ago on her barb about using her fists in tiger form (watching tigers w/5aps is just plain scary). She told them in her opinion not a bug. She was warned and several days later she ended up getting banned for 3 days. She continued and I think 4 days ago she just got banned again. A ticket was submitted claiming it's not a bug she is abusing after her 1st ban. So yah ppl are getting banned for this.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Koni stated the other day that he's not aware of it being considered a bannable offense and he wasn't aware that they had ever banned anyone for doing it.

    So even the GMs aren't on the same page. Until they make an official statement, I would fight the ticket.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Teny - Heavens Tear
    Teny - Heavens Tear Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Regarding best DD though, cast cancel? is this still "something that people don't get banned for" or did the staff's position change on that matter?
    D.DBB is win but HF and GS don't "work" anymore afaik
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  • Xarathox - Dreamweaver
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,657 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Rawthorne - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    My friend was summoned to GM Isle a few weeks ago on her barb about using her fists in tiger form (watching tigers w/5aps is just plain scary). She told them in her opinion not a bug. She was warned and several days later she ended up getting banned for 3 days. She continued and I think 4 days ago she just got banned again. A ticket was submitted claiming it's not a bug she is abusing after her 1st ban. So yah ppl are getting banned for this.

    Using fists/claws in tiger isn't so much a glitch as it is a exploitable loop (like killing Kisma with veno air pet). And exploits of any kind are bannable offenses.
    Some people risk to employ me

    Some people live to destroy me

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  • Tequila_wolf - Heavens Tear
    Tequila_wolf - Heavens Tear Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Barb


    /10chars

    gotta Rawrgh here
  • fulgida
    fulgida Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Ok, instead of calling you a moron, I'll explain why you are one.

    Sins are DD, that's their primary purpose. However, well geared, they can tank.

    Putting them in HA requires them to waste stat points they could put into dex.

    Bloodpaint healing relies on damage. So if you want a tanking sin, you want to refine your daggers as much as you can and to get your dex as high as you can to offer you the most healing. Put them in HA, their damage is gimped, their healing is gimped and they'll die even more quickly.

    I mean, really... how many oracles and hypers have you used? Stuff like this should be pretty common knowledge for a 10x even if you don't play the class.

    You clearly have not thought this through.

    If you are going for cheap, an assassin can go HA + Fist + Demon and get 5aps cheaper than any blademaster. Assassins can build chi faster than sage of any other class, also, so they can be using spark almost always.

    Going HA will also reduce incoming melee damage but for some reason you are claiming that HA will die faster.

    Meanwhile dexterity does not contribute to fist damage whatsoever, while triple spark adds so much that anyone fighting unsparked would not be able to compete, DD wise.

    So here you have a "fail build" out-DDing any non 5aps assassin out there, and thus out healing any non 5aps assassin out there.

    And, worse, you were trying to go off like people were morons for suggesting that this could work -- and, while I am sure that you could come up with situations where this build would not work your post somehow not only completely missed that this build would tank (and self heal) like crazy, for a relatively low setup cost, but you were falsely claiming the opposite.

    So, um... you are doing good, you just need to be working on your truthiness.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    fulgida wrote: »
    You clearly have not thought this through.

    If you are going for cheap, an assassin can go HA + Fist + Demon and get 5aps cheaper than any blademaster. Assassins can build chi faster than sage of any other class, also, so they can be using spark almost always.

    For a sin, cheap would be getting Rank 4 LA interval chest. If you spam a skill to gain chi you're losing DPS. Sins don't get damage bonus with claws. BMs do. Getting 5 APS on daggers is expensive. Getting 5aps with fists is cheaper, you might as well roll an archer for versatility. Stealth would be handy in 3-3 to avoid mobs, but they've installed a kill counter.
    Going HA will also reduce incoming melee damage but for some reason you are claiming that HA will die faster.

    Meanwhile dexterity does not contribute to fist damage whatsoever, while triple spark adds so much that anyone fighting unsparked would not be able to compete, DD wise.

    Going claws will gimp your damage. No dagger devotion. No fist mastery. Min strength for claws. You can't use skills. Umm.. yeah. Talk about a gimped.

    So here you have a "fail build" out-DDing any non 5aps assassin out there, and thus out healing any non 5aps assassin out there.

    And, worse, you were trying to go off like people were morons for suggesting that this could work -- and, while I am sure that you could come up with situations where this build would not work your post somehow not only completely missed that this build would tank (and self heal) like crazy, for a relatively low setup cost, but you were falsely claiming the opposite.

    So, um... you are doing good, you just need to be working on your truthiness.

    Yes, it could work. IF you dumped a TON of real life money into it. However, if you were dumping a lot of money into it, you should just go 5aps daggers. Duh.

    You might as well roll an arcane barb, a heavy mage or a heavy archer and think you're pro. You're an idiot. And a nub if you think that a HA sin would be anything but a joke build for the lulz.

    Please, roll a heavy sin on Lost City. I'll be at west gate waiting for you. b:bye
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  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    he is saying HA sin for farming, ive seen on my server too and yes with just 5k rep top, HA pants and helm, LA boots and gloves and pdef ornaments and fists etc... plus demon spark and bloodpaint its kinda the cheapest way to get 5aps and farm better than archer coz of better str for fists and bloodpaint
    kinda like this http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=60e362a1e67e5c99
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    he is saying HA sin for farming, ive seen on my server too and yes with just 5k rep top, HA pants and helm, LA boots and gloves and pdef ornaments and fists etc... plus demon spark and bloodpaint its kinda the cheapest way to get 5aps and farm better than archer

    LA Rank top, LA wrists/boots, HA neck/belt and int cape. And in that case you're going to stat HA for just the pants? Come on, that's just stupid talking. Go LA pants so you can nirvana them and you won't have to deal with the troubles of statting for heavy and restating later when you do get 5aps daggers.

    Does Dagger Devotion increase bloodpaint healing by adding extra damage? Is that really going to be offset by an extra -.05 extra interval?
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  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    not just for pants... fists/helm require str too and actually more str for fists increase damage. anyway ive seen it working in coa/tt/nirvana. doesnt go LA pants/nirvana since it was a char for farming not spending more
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    not just for pants... fists/helm require str too and actually more str for fists increase damage. anyway ive seen it working in coa/tt/nirvana. doesnt go LA pants/nirvana since it was a char for farming not spending more

    TT is the only reason I could see even thinking about going heavy for... Anyone can tank Nirvana or CoA.
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  • Imaspy - Lost City
    Imaspy - Lost City Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Best theoried 5.0 sin on CN server.
    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://bbs.w2i.wanmei.com/viewthread.php%3Ftid%3D1494975%26extra%3Dpage%253D6&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1
  • Xarathox - Dreamweaver
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,657 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Imaspy - Lost City wrote: »
    Best theoried 5.0 sin on CN server.
    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://bbs.w2i.wanmei.com/viewthread.php%3Ftid%3D1494975%26extra%3Dpage%253D6&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1

    Yeah, I ain't got time to read engrish.
    Some people risk to employ me

    Some people live to destroy me

    Either way they die
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Imaspy - Lost City wrote: »
    Best theoried 5.0 sin on CN server.
    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://bbs.w2i.wanmei.com/viewthread.php%3Ftid%3D1494975%26extra%3Dpage%253D6&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1

    Pretty sure Kitamura on LC is one of the best, if not the best sin on PWI. And he isn't a theorized sin, apparently he can solo PQ100 final boss.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • fulgida
    fulgida Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    For a sin, cheap would be getting Rank 4 LA interval chest. If you spam a skill to gain chi you're losing DPS. Sins don't get damage bonus with claws. BMs do. Getting 5 APS on daggers is expensive. Getting 5aps with fists is cheaper, you might as well roll an archer for versatility. Stealth would be handy in 3-3 to avoid mobs, but they've installed a kill counter.

    I was not talking about spamming a skill for chi, I was talking about using skills like Inner Harmony so that you can afford to "waste spark" on an opponent that is about to die. (One of the problems 5aps characters have is that they need to build chi for their initial spark, and for some that means they are taking damage without the bonuses provided by spark. Oh, and did I mention that assassins benefit from bloodpaint where archers do not?)
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Going claws will gimp your damage. No dagger devotion. No fist mastery. Min strength for claws. You can't use skills. Umm.. yeah. Talk about a gimped.

    Of course, you can use skills the same way blademasters use skills (you swap weapons).

    And we are comparing classes, and no other classes get dagger devotion and only one of them gets fist mastery. And with the money to save, you can use this character for farming and another character for whatever other purposes you like -- and some situations favor people with multiple characters even if they do not play them simultaneously.

    (I will agree that a 5aps fist assassin has nothing on a 5aps dagger assassin, but restats are cheap when compared to 5aps gear and if you can find things to do to profit from your 5aps that do not suffer from stuff like 5aps drop nerfs, you can use your 5aps fisting to pay for your 5aps dagger gear.)
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes, it could work. IF you dumped a TON of real life money into it. However, if you were dumping a lot of money into it, you should just go 5aps daggers. Duh.

    Except the cost for 5aps daggers would be an order of magnitude higher. And the money can be in game or real life -- the game does not care.
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    You might as well roll an arcane barb, a heavy mage or a heavy archer and think you're pro. You're an idiot. And a nub if you think that a HA sin would be anything but a joke build for the lulz.

    Oh, yeah, because they all have bloodpaint and can build out-of-combat chi like assassins can. You sure nailed that one! And lets give that heavy mage claws so he can benefit from the +0% physical damage from his spark!

    Anyways you get +10 for managing to follow misinformation with even less factual statements.
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Please, roll a heavy sin on Lost City. I'll be at west gate waiting for you. b:bye

    Me rolling anything that can survive west gate lost city without a blue name would have to be an exercise in spending real money that I do not have.

    And let's give you +20 for changing the subject.

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