Best 5.0 chars

Evga - Sanctuary

Ok, I need opinion on 5.0 aps chars, between archer, bm and sins, what is better and why from two aspect. I'm asking because i'm primarily a robe user.

First PVE damage, what is better? like between sage, demon, or skill, etc.

Second in PVP, just to confirm it, archer and sin, is probably the cheapest to get to obtain a crazily powerful pvp?

the first question is more important to me ^^

Aubree - Dreamweaver

If i were to make 5aps it would be a sage sin. Higher damage through daggers and 25% less damage permasparked.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

how squishy do u mind being

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Sins are no squishier than archers, but can put out better damage. You just have to gear right.

truekossy

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If i were to make 5aps it would be a sage sin. Higher damage through daggers and 25% less damage permasparked.

Except that a sage sin can't reach 5.0 with daggers.

For PvE damage, Sin > BM > Archer. Sins get the greatest advantage since they can have 5.0 while being pure dex, which would result in something like http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f7b5814585d1d959 (yes, it's unsparked). BMs, and by extension archers, on the other hand would need to split their stats between str and Dex with archers having less str. However, the archers would be able to reach 5.0 sparked with far more ease and if the archer made it to 5.0 unsparked, they would have higher survivability via sage spark.

In terms of PvP, Sin and BMs are the only ones you should consider doing 5.0 for there. Any archer stupid enough to attempt to use mostly fists in PvP is going to get killed for it, so it would be, at most, situational for an archer. Sins, on the other hand, have the advantage of always getting the first hit in and a BM has to run up close to attack anyways, as well as having the extra survivability from wearing HA.

Ruvil - Sanctuary

Cheapest is archer
BM needs either a -interval tome or nirvana pants
Sin is the most expensive and needs both the tome and the pants [unless you would prefer rank8 chest]. Sins also don't really have much of a choice for weapons and would need to use atleast 100 raptures for 1st cast nirvana daggers [rank6 is ok but we are talking about 5.0], whereas a BM could choose to use the cheaper lunar claws instead of TT100s if they wanted to.

in terms of greatest single target dps the order is reversed
Sin --->BM---> Archer
This is from just sparking and hitting the target, some people will probably argue that a BM does more due to comboing demon HF [which is unarguably awesome] dragonbane etc etc. While I have not done the numbers im pretty certain that a sin will still do more over the long run [powerdash wolf embel chi generation skills].

As much as I like archers I don't really see the point in making one IF you are just trying to make your own 5.0 farming char. Even though archer is the cheapest a Sin can use the same setup as an archer and be 5.0 ... with claws [just like an archer except w/ stealth and bloodpaint]. You could potentially farm the money needed to make a 5.0 dagger sin while using a 5.0 claw sin first.

I've played both 5.0 sin and archer in pvp. My sin is much more powerful in 1v1 then my archer though I had more fun playing archer.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Barb


/10chars

Okeano - Harshlands

Ruvil - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cheapest is archer
BM needs either a -interval tome or nirvana pants
Sin is the most expensive and needs both the tome and the pants [unless you would prefer rank8 chest]. Sins also don't really have much of a choice for weapons and would need to use atleast 100 raptures for 1st cast nirvana daggers [rank6 is ok but we are talking about 5.0], whereas a BM could choose to use the cheaper lunar claws instead of TT100s if they wanted to.

If you have both 5 aps Sin and Archer, why do you say Sin's more expensive? Check what you are using as Archer, fists. Sin can use fists too so it won't be "more expensive".

truekossy

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

If you have both 5 aps Sin and Archer, why do you say Sin's more expensive? Check what you are using as Archer, fists. Sin can use fists too so it won't be "more expensive".

She means with daggers since otherwise, sins would be put behind archers for the PvE damage instead of at the top. She even mentioned further on in that post that a sin could start off with the same setup as an archer while using fists to farm the gear needed to achieve 5.0 with daggers.

Loltank - Harshlands

Obviously mage.

Ridiculous pdef, decent HP with armor refines, and you have emberstorm and frostblade!!111!

NightRage - Raging Tide

Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »

Obviously mage.

Ridiculous pdef, decent HP with armor refines, and you have emberstorm and frostblade!!111!

LOL I get it. That's sarcastic because there are no such things as mages in this game. Lol good one.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If i were to make 5aps it would be a sage sin. Higher damage through daggers and 25% less damage permasparked.

i am not quiet sure sage sin can hit 5 aps without slipsteam when using daggers... 4aps might be the max unless i am missing something.

sage 5aps bm prob would be the highest dmg and best tanker in game.

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i am not quiet sure sage sin can hit 5 aps without slipsteam when using daggers... 4aps might be the max unless i am missing something.

sage 5aps bm prob would be the highest dmg and best tanker in game.

Genie skill b:chuckle thats how you get ur 5.0, without genie skill i think max speed only 4.0

truekossy

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i am not quiet sure sage sin can hit 5 aps without slipsteam when using daggers... 4aps might be the max unless i am missing something.

sage 5aps bm prob would be the highest dmg and best tanker in game.

See my earlier post.

Sage 5APS BM still won't reach the same as an assassin plus survivability for a few reasons:

1: Assassin can go pure dex while the BM has to split points between str and dex. While this doesn't make as huge a difference at the end of the day, it's still a notable difference.
2: Sage BMs, like sage assassins, cannot have a natural 5 APS with just auto-attacking and their sparks. This means that they'll be wasting time that could be spent dealing damage to keep their 5APS going, which will lower their overall DPS compared to if a demon of the same class and with the same equips (which they wouldn't need since they could achieve 5 APS wth less intervals due to demon spark) was attacking in their place.
3: In order for a BM to get to 4.0, they'd have to gimp their defenses by using TT99 LA gear. This results in either A: dropping to evasion ornaments and being weak to magic or B: using LA boots/wrist + an evasion ornament. Either way causes a drop to their survivability that puts a full set of LA + Phys ornaments closer to them, which would make sage sparking less of an advantage for them than if they already had a large defensive lead.




tl;dr: Sage Archer (or assassin) using 5.0 with claws has the best durability to go with their damage, Demon assassin has the best DPS hands down (especially if it's one that has enough -interval to have 5.0 with chill). Demon BM comes between Sins and archers in terms of damage, but comes ahead of demon sins and archers for survivability (though I suppose between bloodpaint, maze steps, focused mind, and tidal protection this one's kinda debatable).

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

Doing 5 aps with Archer should not cross your mind at all in terms of practicality. Usually they only have enough str for their fists/claws so their damage output is severely low compared to that of BM/Sin. They are also not subject to Bloodpaint buff which would become the main source of healing along with Cleric heals for a 5 aps BM/Sin. And unless you have crazy gears like some archers (+10, vit stones on everything, etc.), you are not going to be able to take many hits in the event that you take aggro.

5 aps Assassins are just monstrous in terms of damage, especially on a pure dex Sin. Triple Spark + Power Dash + Wolf's Emblem is an insanely scary combo that can drop a boss dead in matter of seconds. They out-damage 5 aps BMs by far and with Bloodpaint healing them constantly, they make pretty good tanks for general purposes. And I say general purposes because a Sin optimized to deal the most damage will be rolling LAs--the worst type of armor you can use. And again like Archers, unless you have crazy gears, there are many limitations as to where you can use your full DD potential on, especially in PvE.

5 aps BMs have the most survivability out of the three. Now I'm only going to speak for demon BMs because unlike sage BMs, demons can roll full HA build and still reach 5 aps. Assuming the BM in question has as much budget as 5 aps Archer/Sin, he can get well over or close to 15k defense both physically and magically using demon magical marrow, not to mention over 10k of HP unbuffed. This makes the BM a tough cookie to beat for any class and still dish out nifty damage. So in terms of practicality, BM takes the medal (and I'm not being bias--I play lvl 100 and lvl 91 Sin, and while Sin is just unbelievable in damage, I do find her survivability lacking).

ArchSaber - Sanctuary

Evga - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ok, I need opinion on 5.0 aps chars, between archer, bm and sins, what is better and why from two aspect. I'm asking because i'm primarily a robe user.

First PVE damage, what is better? like between sage, demon, or skill, etc.

Second in PVP, just to confirm it, archer and sin, is probably the cheapest to get to obtain a crazily powerful pvp?

the first question is more important to me ^^

Demon Sins are scary as hell. It is possible to obtain 5aps with Sacrificial Strike Daggers. So if you put on bloodpaint, it would cancel the hp loss from zerk.

5aps bm vs sin in pvp, then bm is win. bm is to much p def and sin has no p def, unless high refined g13 orns.

Daggster - Lost City

someone should say this sin lacks some defences ...
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a3f0697e8162f1e3

btw i couldnt add god of frenzy to the weapon -.- but that would be pretty much the stuff im hunting for as sage sin b:bye

b:dirty 3.33 aps with god of frenzy and sage BP and dagger devotion b:dirty

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Daggster - Lost City wrote: »

someone should say this sin lacks some defences ...
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a3f0697e8162f1e3

btw i couldnt add god of frenzy to the weapon -.- but that would be pretty much the stuff im hunting for as sage sin b:bye

b:dirty 3.33 aps with god of frenzy and sage BP and dagger devotion b:dirty

So you mean that 5 aps demon sin wouldn't out-DD you?

Daggster - Lost City

that one will have some secs of 5aps too by useing relentless courage

might be that 5aps demon sins out dd in pve but that build ist prolly the best for pvp and still very good in pve ijs

OIdpop - Heavens Tear

here is our bm with 0.05 kirin wrist and non +'ed fist of heroisim and pure teamwork...the numbers look great to me..just imagine if he did had int. gear and possible some claws of some such.

http://www.xfire.com/video/2d75d7/

Daggster - Lost City

well take some 3sins and a bm in frost and the shout, bishop and hand bosse will be down before they shout spawn bishops or hands lol

Ninnuam - Sanctuary

Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Doing 5 aps with Archer should not cross your mind at all in terms of practicality. Usually they only have enough str for their fists/claws so their damage output is severely low compared to that of BM/Sin. They are also not subject to Bloodpaint buff which would become the main source of healing along with Cleric heals for a 5 aps BM/Sin. And unless you have crazy gears like some archers (+10, vit stones on everything, etc.), you are not going to be able to take many hits in the event that you take aggro.

5 aps Assassins are just monstrous in terms of damage, especially on a pure dex Sin. Triple Spark + Power Dash + Wolf's Emblem is an insanely scary combo that can drop a boss dead in matter of seconds. They out-damage 5 aps BMs by far and with Bloodpaint healing them constantly, they make pretty good tanks for general purposes. And I say general purposes because a Sin optimized to deal the most damage will be rolling LAs--the worst type of armor you can use. And again like Archers, unless you have crazy gears, there are many limitations as to where you can use your full DD potential on, especially in PvE.

Survive-a-whata? 5k hp sin/archer tank nirvana (and steal aggro off bms) just fine. Which is what evgaga is after prolly XD

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »

Survive-a-whata? 5k hp sin/archer tank nirvana (and steal aggro off bms) just fine. Which is what evgaga is after prolly XD

Who doesn't tank Nirvana these days? It's not much worse than FC. b:surrender

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

OIdpop - Heavens Tear wrote: »

here is our bm with 0.05 kirin wrist and non +'ed fist of heroisim and pure teamwork...the numbers look great to me..just imagine if he did had int. gear and possible some claws of some such.

http://www.xfire.com/video/2d75d7/

i thought that was just average really.. and clearly he is at least few lvls above the boss.. so nothing special there

Legend - Raging Tide

OIdpop - Heavens Tear wrote: »

here is our bm with 0.05 kirin wrist and non +'ed fist of heroisim and pure teamwork...the numbers look great to me..just imagine if he did had int. gear and possible some claws of some such.

http://www.xfire.com/video/2d75d7/

That was horri-bad damage yo.

Cocobelle - Sanctuary

Gagaloo making a BM now? b:chuckle

Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver

ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »

Demon Sins are scary as hell. It is possible to obtain 5aps with Sacrificial Strike Daggers. So if you put on bloodpaint, it would cancel the hp loss from zerk.

5aps bm vs sin in pvp, then bm is win. bm is to much p def and sin has no p def, unless high refined g13 orns.

The pdef difference is not enought to make a difference vs the extra damage. Sin would win pvp vs bm.

1. Focus Mind makes a 5.0 bm 3.75. (25% of all hits do 1 damage)
2. They get an extra life 1hit more to live then BM
3. They will heal every hit. ( if they have the 100 skill its even more insane)
4. If a bm uses p def buff. it leaves them to be killed easy with a BR combo. (unless they have over 17k hp)

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The pdef difference is not enought to make a difference vs the extra damage. Sin would win pvp vs bm.

1. Focus Mind makes a 5.0 bm 3.75. (25% of all hits do 1 damage)
2. They get an extra life 1hit more to live then BM
3. They will heal every hit. ( if they have the 100 skill its even more insane)
4. If a bm uses p def buff. it leaves them to be killed easy with a BR combo. (unless they have over 17k hp)

You forgot Rib Strike.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Doing 5 aps with Archer should not cross your mind at all in terms of practicality. Usually they only have enough str for their fists/claws so their damage output is severely low compared to that of BM/Sin. They are also not subject to Bloodpaint buff which would become the main source of healing along with Cleric heals for a 5 aps BM/Sin. And unless you have crazy gears like some archers (+10, vit stones on everything, etc.), you are not going to be able to take many hits in the event that you take aggro.

5aps archer is actually pretty comparable to BM. What archers lack in Str and mastery they somewhat make up for in crit and blazing arrow. Still archer comes out about 6% less damage than that same weapon on a BM. A 5.0 dagger sin tho is significantly higher damage than both BM and archers.

Actually Demon archers can actually reach 5.0 with any fist weapon which means they can use G15 nirvana claws without getting really lucky with -interval mods.

Russiee - Raging Tide

truekossy wrote: »

BMs, and by extension archers, on the other hand would need to split their stats between str and Dex with archers having less str.

Im full dex with 99 base str and I wear Claws ._.
Its just a matter of switching gear.

Traz - Dreamweaver

In terms of overall surviving and doing damage I'd go with a 5.0 Barb. The other three in order would be BM, Archer, and finally Sin.

Sins steal aggro to fast and splat to quick it's really crazy. Archers steal aggro and splate too but much less. BM vs Barb is a tricky one, but considering there is a build for a barb to have nirvana axes and claws i'm going barb. Obviously we are spending a **** ton on any class to get to 5.0, but for the money vs surviving vs damage i'm 100% going with a barb.