How to survive this game without a Herc

LaLeLoo - Sanctuary · August 2010

For my veno, I'm questioning even if a herc is worth 90 million. I keep thinking, what else can I buy with 90 million? I could get awesome gear, with awesome shards. I could uprgrade skills and get many things that can help my character. Perhaps, I could get my cleric demon rez and demon ironheart ;o Which costs 20+mill each. Yet if I get a herc, I just get to tank a few extra bosses and solo a few TTs. And as far as I've read, soloing TT is quite complex and takes time and patience. I could collect mats for my TT90 gear, yet with 90 mill I could of bought the mats and made around 8 TT90 armor sets.

Hercs may have been worth 20mill, but now that they are 90mill, I'm not too sure anymore.

I'll just find myself a barb to marry my cleric. Hehe xD

tweakz · August 2010

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

But you haven't adressed what arguments have been made against your point of view and continue hammering your cleric/res analogy as if it hadn't been sufficiently countered and proven wrong.

No, you haven't proved a thing. In fact without any of my doing, clerics have responded in disgust. Rest of your wall of nonsense text ignored.

It's gotten to the point where its annoying to see all these fail venos complaining about the cost of something they should have no problem affording by their 80's. They're typically the ones that boast of their skills, yet when I see them perform in game: they're a joke. They're self centered and expect much more of other classes than themselves.

From the quickest money makers in the game: "buy me a herc" -disgusting and pathetic. Even a new character can make a million in a few days of casual playing as I've recently discovered. Oh, but don't accept that you're the one doing something wrong.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · August 2010

tweakz wrote: »

Putting rare skills on an Armored Bear would be a hella stupid thing to do. Coin is easy to come by in this game even w/o vending. Sounds to me like just plain bad choices: not lack of gain.

tweakz wrote: »

Putting rare skills on an Armored Bear would be a hella stupid thing to do

b:laugh

All I got to say to you is... epic fail

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:laugh

All I got to say to you is... epic fail

Of all the things to criticize, you choose an accurate statement?

Blood_Panda - Raging Tide · August 2010

why not just do what you want..

i love to have a veno in my squad.. and if I see 3 veno in my squad.. i will just sit back and watch 3 of them heal a golem and slowly beat the **** out of the boss..

who is anyone for the matter.. telling you what to do..
just do what you like.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · August 2010

tweakz wrote: »

No, you haven't proved a thing. In fact without any of my doing, clerics have responded in disgust. Rest of your wall of nonsense text ignored.

It's gotten to the point where its annoying to see all these fail venos complaining about the cost of something they should have no problem affording by their 80's. They're typically the ones that boast of their skills, yet when I see them perform in game: they're a joke. They're self centered and expect much more of other classes than themselves.

From the quickest money makers in the game: "buy me a herc" -disgusting and pathetic. Even a new character can make a million in a few days of casual playing as I've recently discovered. Oh, but don't accept that you're the one doing something wrong.

Could you please clarify? Clerics have responded with disgust to what? The idea of unherc'ed venos? Wall of nonsense text? Now, that is so convenient... You choose to simply ignore what you can't provide an answer for.

As for those venos that "boast of their skills" care to point them out? Because if you mean me i've in the past made it clear to you i boast nothing more than being competent and of pulling my own weight in a squad which you're more than welcome to come to Sanct and see for yourself. Boasts of uber pro leetness i leave to those who believe venos never get hit and thus require no extra hp from statting vit...

And once again, i don't care about the price, i just don't want an herc. I'm saving for a nix well in the knowledge that an herc would both pay for itself and for the bird. That is, if i was willing to spend countless hours soloing instances, which to me sort of defeats the purpose of playing an MMO... Now, allow me to say it clearly, my claims about herc being only a convenient way of saving repair bills at the expense of the squad's time continue to go unchallenged. You may change that in the future but until you do, i can certainly say no one has stepped up to prove me wrong. And unlike you, and you can go back through my posting history, i have admitted to making mistakes and have fully conceded the point when proven wrong. It takes integrity to do that instead of just walking out of threads when things aren't going your way, which we both know you have done.

So, unless you're actually going to make a point or discuss the issue i would prefer it if you kept silent. Whatever attempts at wit you may think you may have managed to muster are nothing but a very pathetic and public cop out.

And Dyskrasia, if you think that's an accurate statement then you really should review your decission of playing a pet class. Rare skills are hard enough to get for people to have to suffer the insolence of players who view their class as nothing more than a glorified pet cleric...

Desdi - Sanctuary · August 2010

tweakz wrote: »

They're self centered and expect much more of other classes than themselves.

So does every other class.
A lot of Barbarians rely on Hercules to tank. A lot of DDs rely on Barbarians and don't bother controlling their aggro. A lot of Assasins rely on Clerics that will heal them and save their butt everytime they steal aggro (on purpose) and the list goes on...

To be honest, I did want a Hercules at some point (when I was around lvl 80-81). Though that time (September 2009) Hercules was still not so popular. People would just be happy to see one but not ask for one. At least not in Sanctuary as far as I remember.
However, although I was always against things like "ultimate pet", "ultimate skill", "ultimate this" "ultimate that" in games I decided that yes I want a Hercules. Prices had started going up so Hercules became a bit more expensive, I just let it be (school was coming) and by the end of September I stopped playing untill I returned in June.

When summer started I still wanted a Hercules and I saw how Herc-obssesed everyone is so that simply added more to my wants. The price now however was a lot higher. I simply couldn't and didn't want to spend the rest of my play time farming and grinding so I decided to use real life money. Later I tried a private server of Perfect World, there I got both Hercules and Phoenix. I tried them. I loved them. I loved the Phoenix from the start but as I do instances mostly I wouldn't get to use it much so yeah I wanted a Hercules. I decided. I planned the date but the day before buying it I changed my mind.

Why? Because I don't want to solo TTs. I do instances with friends and/or good squads. I don't need a Hercules to be cool. I'm cool enough for my friends (and I'm talking about irl friends or pre-PWI online friends mostly as those I met PWI quickly forgot me when I told them I can't play much anymore). I like helping others with bosses/instances but I still can do a lot with my little shaodu or my armored bear. The main reasons though was because...most of my friends have quited already. Most of the people out there don't give a damn about others but themselves. So why should I bother? Not to mention that this game is slowly being ruined by new updates. Especially after this new patch I lost my will to play. I'm probably going to stop playing for another 5 months and come back after b:chuckle

I don't want to quit as I got to this point through hard work and only spent money on my mounts (flying and riding), the rest was from in-game coin. I never leave my game accounts anyway (I still love PWI so much). And no this is not a rant or a QQ, just my point of view concerning the game and the Hercules.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Blood_Panda - Raging Tide wrote: »

who is anyone for the matter.. telling you what to do..
just do what you like.

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I like helping others with bosses/instances but I still can do a lot with my little shaodu or my armored bear. The main reasons though was because...most of my friends have quited already. Most of the people out there don't give a damn about others but themselves. So why should I bother? Not to mention that this game is slowly being ruined by new updates. Especially after this new patch I lost my will to play. I'm probably going to stop playing for another 5 months and come back lafter b:chuckle

I don't want to quit as I got to this point through hard work and only spent money on my mounts (flying and riding), the rest was from in-game coin.

Keep in mind that this is a game. The fundamental reason people play games is selfish - so they can have fun. So do stuff because it makes you happy. Don't do it because it'll make someone else happy. (Well, maybe except for spouses - LOL.)

Different people have different priorities. Some people want to amass a fortune. Others want cool gear. Yet others want to kill stuff as quickly and efficiently as possible. And some want nothing more than to idly pass the time killing make-believe monsters.

A lot of the bickering you see online is one person using their priorities to judge another person's way of playing the game. If you're on the receiving end of that, just ignore it. If you're dishing it out, open up your mind and consider some alternative viewpoints. Personally, I'm an engineer in RL, and I enjoy trying to figure out optimal solutions to situations the game presents to me. If others want to join me in that, I'll welcome them.

But at the same time, I recognize that not everyone plays with the same goals as I do. So if someone in my group isn't using Amp or is wasting chi on Frost Scarab, I might explain to them once or twice why there's a better way to do it. But if they don't listen to me, I drop it. The important thing is that we're having fun, and if for them having fun involves wasting chi on Frost or not having to bother dropping to fox form to Amp, I'm not going to ruin it for them by throwing a fit about it.

Now, if having fun for you means getting into lots of random groups, then yeah a herc may seem like something you want to get for that reason. But keep in mind that the people demanding hercs in groups are usually the min/maxer types who, unlike me, will try to force their optimizing tendencies onto others (they're already forcing it on the group composition). If you're more the laid back type who doesn't really care about that, and end up getting a herc because you think it'll let you into more groups to socialize, you may be in for a disappointment. The groups demanding a herc are usually the antithesis of your playstyle.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary · August 2010

This is about the same way I feel: I got my herc at lvl 75, and while it's nice and all to have, I feel like I learned my main role as a veno without it. however, ive hit a point to where I just wanna take a break from my veno. Ive been lvl 91 for a month or more now. I dont want to quit, I still have so much I'd like to achieve, but Im proud of my achievements from lvl 60-91. Pre-lvl 60 i dont remember much, I had just came back from a 5 month break. Now im on a semi-break again lvling up my cleric. I got to 90 thinking, I'll get a nix now, because i already had a herc. So I started collecting pf's and then I'm thought, "wth am i doing? wouldnt it be better just to upgrade my gear? and learn my demon skills right now, the nix can wait." I'm just wondering if hercless venos past 90 think the same thing. Do they think "Herc first" or "gear and demon/sage skills first"?

kenlee · August 2010

lol manray, why dont you compare herc with all the other free **** pets around and not with player? i think by this lvl ppl already learned that pets cant be refined or sharded. during 8x-9x interval of lvls, herc is still very good and viable option for many squads. at end game where herc is les needed except gv delta (sometimes or depends of veno build), ppl have yet to discover the true potential of a herc. i know a veno who solo bosses like emperor and illusion lord

Yulk - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Of all the things to criticize, you choose an accurate statement?

tweakz is the one criticizing, if a veno wants to put rare skills on a armored bear, snow hare, tabby plumdrop or even a tortoise, let them. On top of that, there are strengths that an armored bear have and making it very great in tanking physical attacks. Also a ranged pet with protect doesn't seem like a bad idea at all. I'm criticizing at someone telling people that people are fail without a herc? The fail one is the one depending on the herc. I really find it so blasted easy with a tank pet, herc just makes the gameplay for me really really boring. I can understand that some venoes want to have the best melee pets ingame, but they do not have the right to bash on people because they are using other pets.

BTW, my daughter can just use slow on a tabby plumdrop when she kills things before they even reach her, and she's a pure VIT veno. Yes, she is the one with the aggro.

tweakz · August 2010

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Keep in mind that this is a game. The fundamental reason people play games is selfish - so they can have fun. So do stuff because it makes you happy. Don't do it because it'll make someone else happy. (Well, maybe except for spouses - LOL.)

Different people have different priorities. Some people want to amass a fortune. Others want cool gear. Yet others want to kill stuff as quickly and efficiently as possible. And some want nothing more than to idly pass the time killing make-believe monsters.

A lot of the bickering you see online is one person using their priorities to judge another person's way of playing the game. If you're on the receiving end of that, just ignore it. If you're dishing it out, open up your mind and consider some alternative viewpoints. Personally, I'm an engineer in RL, and I enjoy trying to figure out optimal solutions to situations the game presents to me. If others want to join me in that, I'll welcome them.

But at the same time, I recognize that not everyone plays with the same goals as I do. So if someone in my group isn't using Amp or is wasting chi on Frost Scarab, I might explain to them once or twice why there's a better way to do it. But if they don't listen to me, I drop it. The important thing is that we're having fun, and if for them having fun involves wasting chi on Frost or not having to bother dropping to fox form to Amp, I'm not going to ruin it for them by throwing a fit about it.

Now, if having fun for you means getting into lots of random groups, then yeah a herc may seem like something you want to get for that reason. But keep in mind that the people demanding hercs in groups are usually the min/maxer types who, unlike me, will try to force their optimizing tendencies onto others (they're already forcing it on the group composition). If you're more the laid back type who doesn't really care about that, and end up getting a herc because you think it'll let you into more groups to socialize, you may be in for a disappointment. The groups demanding a herc are usually the antithesis of your playstyle.

I agree with this. ^^ The problem is people are whining because they can't get into groups as easy, and not only declare that they're as good but better than Herc venos.

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm criticizing at someone telling people that people are fail without a herc? The fail one is the one depending on the herc.

Usually I ignore this guy's posts but here's something to address. Hercless venos will always be coming to this forum as in times past declaring they're as good or better than Herc Venos. They QQ over not getting in squads, and like to impose themselves on the rest of us. These guys are fail. I have no issues with the veno that plays modestly and doesn't ride off others for their own fun/ goals.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · August 2010

kenlee wrote: »

lol manray, why dont you compare herc with all the other free **** pets around and not with player? i think by this lvl ppl already learned that pets cant be refined or sharded. during 8x-9x interval of lvls, herc is still very good and viable option for many squads. at end game where herc is les needed except gv delta (sometimes or depends of veno build), ppl have yet to discover the true potential of a herc. i know a veno who solo bosses like emperor and illusion lord

Because, and look back through my posts, i have never claimed you could become top tier without an herc. I'm well aware no other pet will compare to an herc, that even as a back up it will certainly add new capabilities to any squad, that there are many worthy goals and accomplishments within the reach of herc'ed venos that those without them will never hope to match. The same could also be said of those possesing warsouls or nirvanas...

Yes, herc is much, much easier to obtain than those. And it certainly isn't out of reach for any veno that would make endgame. However, this is far from saying it's a must have. This is an issue of proportion. I compare hercs to other players because these are available as choices in squads. Are they viable options for many squads, certainly, at my level range an herc will allow you to forego looking for a barb/cleric to do BH runs, it certainly is a huge advantage. But necessary? A veno brings amping, luring, the ability to deal with strays or multiple mobs, etc. I have yet to be rejected from a bh squad as "useless" because i don't have an herc. Still, i don't take as personal rejections from squads that have a legitimate need or use for herc'ed venos. I'm well aware Frost or RB i'll probably won't get to see but on rare ocassions. And i have no problem with herc venos claiming the lion's share of PvE accomplishments for the veno class.

But yea, in most scenarios and running with a balanced competent squad hercless venos are just as good as their counterparts. Skill does not depend on which pets you use and there are both good and bad players running around with and without hercs. It is you who has decided to label as fails all hercless venos and who has mocked their attempts to make their "free **** pets" a little better. Once again, and so we are clear, i don't label myself as pro but i do deserve my place in squads because i do my job in a manner that does make me a contributor and, i like to believe, an asset. There are many legitimate reasons for a veno not to choose to an herc, this thread is all but full of them, and any given squad is well entitled to choose not to squad hercless venos, no one disputes that. But we are not going away and we will continue to earn what we may, and it shows nothing but a rotten attitude to label and exclude players who have made different choices.

Is herc the ideal pet to have when doing squadwork? No, only when the pet is tanking wich outside of a few scenarios is usually far from being the fastest or safest way to accomplish a kill. Yes, an herc is the better choice for RB, but other than that a high dps pet will be the better choice and is "free **** pets" like Wanderer or Scorp that will optimize a veno's contribution. You refuse to admit that, just like any other pet, herc for all it's prowess is a specialist.

Desdi - Sanctuary · August 2010

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do they think "Herc first" or "gear and demon/sage skills first"?

I decided to work on my demon skills instead xD and my armour which I can't wear yet.

I totally agree with what Solandri said. They always have something interesting and great to say. I really admire you.
"Different people have different priorities" b:victory

Also, MANray you're amazing. I'm glad I got to squad with you once

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary · August 2010

Even as a herced veno, I agree with MANray's full post there. Hercless venos most certainly can pull their weight in a squad. As alot of people say, Ive squaded with herc venos that i never wanna squad with again, and hercless venos that ill welcome in my squad anyday. I remember before the herc and nix ever came out, there was a lvl 8x veno running my fb39, still using a varicose sporpion. I asked her why she was using it still, and she it was because she was very loyal to her pets. That loyalty to any pet, especially one you've kept for that long, should be admired. I believe that instead of trying to get a herc asap, we should learn alot about our potential and how we should role play in a squad. Venos who choose to get a herc without learning about their potential end up being the fail herc venos, while the hercless venos, who have learned about their limits, are pulling there weight in a squad.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · August 2010

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I decided to work on my demon skills instead xD and my armour which I can't wear yet.

I totally agree with what Solandri said. They always have something interesting and great to say. I really admire you.
"Different people have different priorities" b:victory

Also, MANray you're amazing. I'm glad I got to squad with you once

b:thanks Thank you, it's a great compliment coming from a much more knowledgeable and accomplished veno.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

Even as a herced veno, I agree with MANray's full post there. Hercless venos most certainly can pull their weight in a squad. As alot of people say, Ive squaded with herc venos that i never wanna squad with again, and hercless venos that ill welcome in my squad anyday. I remember before the herc and nix ever came out, there was a lvl 8x veno running my fb39, still using a varicose sporpion. I asked her why she was using it still, and she it was because she was very loyal to her pets. That loyalty to any pet, especially one you've kept for that long, should be admired. I believe that instead of trying to get a herc asap, we should learn alot about our potential and how we should role play in a squad. Venos who choose to get a herc without learning about their potential end up being the fail herc venos, while the hercless venos, who have learned about their limits, are pulling there weight in a squad.

b:cool Thanks for the endorsement, it's good to see others realize this isn't herc'ed versus unherc'ed venos.

Bloody_Tiger - Dreamweaver · August 2010

like they have all said herc an nix just makes it easier to get money an stuff if you play your class right you could be just as great as venos without hercs an the new walker in the TB area is better then a mag at lvl 80+ an i have to wait 2-4 more years(because im 16) before i could ever dream of getting a herc so dont feel bad

Aniella - Harshlands · August 2010

LOL! this is waste of time.

STOP WASTE UR TIME AND READ! lol (u can say shiiet about this but..this is true..so not my prob if u can't see it)

U CAN easy lvl w/o legedary pets ..uhm 80% of peps have them..(but realy waste time and rl money on it) = waste time ..that time can be used to get exp and lvl.

u can make coins w/o herc.

If i want i can make 10m a week..only be farm mats 2hr a day! i have did tt in 1 week atlast 1 time a day..got most of the dropp..lol i got under 10m!

ps this is a fookiing game..DO whatever u whant...im not the 1 how waste my real life for a game..2hr a day is OK..not longer.

k peps w herc/nix thienk they are better cuz they ahve the ebst pet....so ..i give ** what other have as pet.

i like only "homemade" pets, pets that build up w rare/normal skills and make em good!

my sawfly i used alot coins, but not wasted more thne 2hr a day.
i give it bleed,claw,mdefbuff,pdefbuff this pet was MADE BY me..and i liek this pet more then anything else..cuz i have made it. And i haven't waste 24hr a day + real money to get somthing.

yeah all say sawfly is weak shiiet..its true but thats why i build him better^^

before i build it:
lvl 9x
hp - 2280..xD his hp is low
patk 3297
mdef 5988
pdef5988

afther i got all rare scrolls:

lvl 9x

hp - still same
patk 4297 - cuz claw give 1k more patk
mdef: 15k - cuz mdef buff give 150% more same w pdef..
pdef:15k

this pet SUXED at the start but aftehr i got those shiiet scroll for under 40m xD he have got alot better.. i made this pet..LOL

only thing to make a pet better is just work w his skills...and keep lvling.. bets pet is lowest lvl pets..they get better at higher lvl.

if u still do't understad . poit is.

U don't have to waste 24hr to get coins.
U don't have to get the best pet
u can lvl w/o legdary pets.
U can make a pet better by give it skills.

tweakz · August 2010

Bloody_Tiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

like they have all said herc an nix just makes it easier to get money an stuff if you play your class right you could be just as great as venos without hercs an the new walker in the TB area is better then a mag at lvl 80+ an i have to wait 2-4 more years(because im 16) before i could ever dream of getting a herc so dont feel bad

The whole notion is ignorant. Without being a herc veno, you lack the experience those of us having them have. Play styles can change to adapt to more capabilities. I have yet to see a veno send a wanna be herc in to aggro multiple elite mobs near their level possibly soul degening an increased life, pdef debuffing a mag resistant, and amping another to take down quick while keeping pet alive. I have yet to see one aoe farming VoS where you eventually take over most of the aggro of 14 or more mobs while directing your pet to ideal targets. The game can be as easy or difficult as you make it. Having a Herc makes the possibility of more variety in difficulty possible. It certainly has made the game funner for me by expanding the possible dynamics of playing.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · August 2010

^^We all remember your thread about the sawfly which is full of I hate to be mean but fail and your post has no value to it what so ever.It is you are to lazey to farm for coins or don't want to fork out the money to help support the game to buy a Herc or Nix.

The only way to survive with out a Herc is to have good pet bag and rely on other to help get you through the game especially Clerics and Barbs.The only thing a high lvled Veno can do is still do the luring and forget about soloing TT Golems will just die easy.

btw.I can see squad failing and me(Clerics) working harder to keep squads alive if you get any more involved and decide on letting your golem do the tanking and attracting aggro.Let the Barb do the tanking if non herc Venos die becasue of this I will revive you when I have time or when the Barb has killed the boss.

It is not a waste of time it is an investment to gain a Legendary Pet.

xxxdsmer · August 2010

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

^^We all remember your thread about the sawfly which is full of I hate to be mean but fail and your post has no value to it what so ever.It is you are to lazey to farm for coins or don't want to fork out the money to help support the game to buy a Herc or Nix.

The only way to survive with out a Herc is to have good pet bag and rely on other to help get you through the game especially Clerics and Barbs.The only thing a high lvled Veno can do is still do the luring and forget about soloing TT Golems will just die easy.

btw.I can see squad failing and me(Clerics) working harder to keep squads alive if you get any more involved and decide on letting your golem do the tanking and attracting aggro.Let the Barb do the tanking if non herc Venos die becasue of this I will revive you when I have time or when the Barb has killed the boss.

It is not a waste of time it is an investment to gain a Legendary Pet.

and so the "lvl6X Veno" has spoken again b:chuckle

hercs DO NOT make good venos, and its up to any given veno wether THEY want to 'invest' in one or not. armored bear can tank frost, and my armored bear at 80 did hh1-3 solo, so no, herc isnt required and you needa go to the cleric forum before ur "lvl6X Veno" says another thing indicating how little you know about the class

MANray_ - Sanctuary · August 2010

tweakz wrote: »

The whole notion is ignorant. Without being a herc veno, you lack the experience those of us having them have. Play styles can change to adapt to more capabilities. I have yet to see a veno send a wanna be herc in to aggro multiple elite mobs near their level possibly soul degening an increased life, pdef debuffing a mag resistant, and amping another to take down quick while keeping pet alive. I have yet to see one aoe farming VoS where you eventually take over most of the aggro of 14 or more mobs while directing your pet to ideal targets. The game can be as easy or difficult as you make it. Having a Herc makes the possibility of more variety in difficulty possible. It certainly has made the game funner for me by expanding the possible dynamics of playing.

Yea, because a 3x veno out on the field with a Snowhare tanking two mobs is probably not going to figure out the one with the "incresed life" sign may require a bit of special attention... What freaking experience? Other than learning just what is it exactly that your pet can or can't handle i wonder what experience you're refering to... The reason you have yet to see an unherc'ed veno sending her pet in to aggro multiple elites is 3-4 mobs is about the practical limit of what a regular pet can handle. I would use Tough or Threaten to give myself some breathing room from spam healing and nuke 1-2 mobs out while apparently you'd be busy cursing/debuffing the whole lot. And 14 mobs? Elites your own level? Apparently you may be the first person to claim zhenning on a PvE server requires any skill at all, how is this going to help you in a squad? Is herc's Reflect enough to hold aggro through HF or BIDS?

Yes, we get it, herc allows you feats none of us unherc'ed venos could ever hope to accomplish. And no doubt it may take some practice getting used to herc's capabilities (just as it would with any other pet) but claiming this makes you more skilled? Do you think an unherc'ed veno will be too confused by so unfamiliar a concept as using more than one debuff or that he/she will not know some mobs may require some extra work regardless of wether his/her pet is tanking? It's not like we've got stuff like PQ to figure this stuff out. I't's not unusual for an unherc'ed veno to handle 4-5 mobs in there as, except for Wanderdogs, first phase mobs don't really hit that hard and those for the second phase use mostly DoTs and weak attacks. I don't see the experience of herc'ed venos showing off in there (yes, more often than not i do beat them) and while no doubt at your level they may have gotten sufficient oportunity to become familiar with their pets, from what i hear about instances in that range is hercs usually take care of the boss while the squad deals with multiples, not the other way around. Yes the game can be as difficult or as challenging as you choose to make it, many unherc'ed venos treat every run as an audition because they know precisely how difficult it is for them to get into squads.

And MistyMonk, yea, many players rely on Barbs and Clerics to level. I myself have always had the good fortune of receiving their help as well as that of the other classes. Doesn't mean i'm not helping them, my veno's died plenty protecting good clerics...

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · August 2010

xxxdsmer wrote: »

and so the "lvl6X Veno" has spoken again b:chuckle

hercs DO NOT make good venos, and its up to any given veno wether THEY want to 'invest' in one or not. armored bear can tank frost, and my armored bear at 80 did hh1-3 solo, so no, herc isnt required and you needa go to the cleric forum before ur "lvl6X Veno" says another thing indicating how little you know about the class

Herc Venos do make good Venos as it takes time to raise one from lvl 1 and to keep the loyalty up.I would really like to see that as I know a few Venos who could not tank anywhere in TT.I know a lot about the class I don't think you do though and great bragging rights.To the masked man you stalking me or something.

Thank you MANray.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · August 2010

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yea, because a 3x veno out on the field with a Snowhare tanking two mobs is probably not going to figure out the one with the "incresed life" sign may require a bit of special attention...

Actually, with how difficult it is to target in this game, most of the time I don't even bother checking if any of the mobs require special treatment. Sure you can hit tab to get target, but if it turns out not to be anything special and you want to continue attacking your pet's target, you either have to tab a bunch more times, manually click on the original target (good luck if both are standing on the same spot), or hit esc to clear your target and hope tab gives you the original one. I would kill for a shift-tab to go backwards through the target list.

So rather than end up wasting 5-10 seconds futzing around with tab on a mob which will probably die in 15 seconds anyway, I just go ahead and plow through them in whichever order tab gives them to me. Since the pet's Bash has already been used on the first mob, switching targets and restraining yourself so as not to steal aggro will probably result in it taking more time to kill them both than if you'd stuck with the first target.

The main exceptions I can think of are if I see my pet losing huge chunks of life. That's usually a sac assault mob, which does warrant killing first if my pet is losing that much hp. Or if I know the pet is going to have a hard time tanking those 3-4 mobs, I may tab through them as I'm running up to see if there's one I should attack first or last.

Hmm... now that I think about it, can you assist attack your pet?

kenlee · August 2010

xxxdsmer wrote: »

and so the "lvl6X Veno" has spoken again b:chuckle

hercs DO NOT make good venos, and its up to any given veno wether THEY want to 'invest' in one or not. armored bear can tank frost, and my armored bear at 80 did hh1-3 solo, so no, herc isnt required and you needa go to the cleric forum before ur "lvl6X Veno" says another thing indicating how little you know about the class

lol at free pets tanking frost and 1-3 solo mode. dude, any decent player can do that... there is nothing special about that bear or any other free pets. the fact that a free pet can be replaced by any player makes venos unwanted in many parties... 1st because most of venos are noobs anyway and second because veno itself doesnt bring much dps/aoe as other classes. you can easily replace a veno with another bm or sin. heaven flame (aoe) is the best amp damage skill in game followed by subsea strike (aoe/sin skill) then demon parasitic nova (aoe) and finally amplify (single target). sure even hercless venos can do frost but the class itself is more like a leech most of the time

Desdi - Sanctuary · August 2010

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

Herc Venos do make good Venos

Just a small correction. Good Herc Venos make Good Venos.
A pet doesn't make the Venomancer. If the Venomancer is good a Hercules will compliment her, will open more possibilities to her. If the Venomancer is not good a Hercules won't be anything but a repair-cost saver. (always talking about squads)

I've used a Hercules and there's really nothing much you need to know except how its skill work and when/how to use them and that's something you need to learn with every new pet anyway unless they have a skill pet you've seen/used before. It's all about commands and reflexes that make you good at controlling a pet.

Leveling up a pet and keeping it's loyalty up is not really providing you any experience. Except in the case you level it up using normal mobs and not Cube of Fate or you start with a Hercules. This kind of experience can be gained with every pet and the only difference is that different pets have different abilities and limits. I don't think you need a long time to learn that either if you are willing to learn.

tweakz · August 2010

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes, we get it, herc allows you feats none of us unherc'ed venos could ever hope to accomplish. And no doubt it may take some practice getting used to herc's capabilities (just as it would with any other pet) but claiming this makes you more skilled?

Woah, the argument was against the venos claiming they got more skills for not having a Herc.

Do you think an unherc'ed veno will be too confused by so unfamiliar a concept as using more than one debuff or that he/she will not know some mobs may require some extra work regardless of wether his/her pet is tanking?

Seriously do they have the time or are they not stuck spam healing (which requires little skill)?

Yes the game can be as difficult or as challenging as you choose to make it, many unherc'ed venos treat every run as an audition because they know precisely how difficult it is for them to get into squads.

Sorry, but they fail about the same as Herc'd venos. Bad players are just plain bad players. Pull out the old Magmite in 69 unwined against magic mobs. Watch me cast soul degeneration (already in fox mode) then cast inferior amp at same time as me repeatedly. Ignore the melees who need bramble even though yours is as good as mine and I'm also luring. Cast your inferior Ironwood after I cast mine. Don't use Myriad because you wasted potential MP on vit, etc etc. You can pretty much count on 90+ hercless venos being fail or wastes of squad space. At least with a Herc, they could do something useful.

Miseree - Archosaur · August 2010

They day i start playing as a veno i told myself that i am not going to have a herc on my team. i do not wan to waste $ on some yellow color thing in my screen, i rather spend the money on food. Surely you can survive the high end level without a herc. Herc ARE the fail boutique items. Having a herc dosen't mean your a fail. Your a fail when you have a herc and you dunno how to play the class properly. No offense but i have met venos with herc im bhs and they don't even know how to lure. Once i met this veno and i told her i would lure the mob around the boss and she think i am luring going to a boss who cannot even move and she ran into the boss with all the minions chasing her and everyone died, she scolded me. She lured and failed badly and made some of us dead, again, with a herc.( this was like a loooong time ago and i still rmb it ) So this show that even if you have a herc, it dose not mean that you have the knowledge on how to play it

XmasBunny_ - Archosaur · August 2010

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dragon Temple is underwater, and PVP enabled even on PVE servers. A well-leveled turtle or undine will be more use than a magmite or any other land pet.

Not only are there bosses guarding the chests, but you are in competition with other players who'd like to farm those rare skills as well... or just want to PK.

k ty for the info^^ ... i already quited the idea b:surrender (i am an epic fail at pvp QQ)

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just a small correction. Good Herc Venos make Good Venos.
A pet doesn't make the Venomancer. If the Venomancer is good a Hercules will compliment her, will open more possibilities to her. If the Venomancer is not good a Hercules won't be anything but a repair-cost saver. (always talking about squads)

this is my opinion as well... imo venos should learn about how to play their class before getting an herc cause that would make them great, not the pet itself b:bye

SeaStorm - Heavens Tear · August 2010

End result...

Good player + pets = great veno

Bad player + pets = bad veno

Doesn't matter what pets you have pets do not make the player, the player makes the player. Yes, some pets can give you a more versatile role in squads. Some veno builds can give you a more versatile role in squads.

I play with 90+ herc and unherc'd venos some are very good, some are very bad...it's not whether they have the herc/nix or not. It's whether they know their class and know HOW to play that class. In squad if you have people that don't know how to play their class or for that matter build their class (no matter what class or armor/weapon they use) the squad will have a tough time or disasterous time. The bad venos I won't squad with again...then again there's barbs, clerics, archers etc that I will not squad with because they have failed to learn how to play their class and/or how to work as a team within a squad. Squad = team; no team work = fail squad...unfortunately this comes in a variety of manners and ways from squad members. A squad only needs one member to be the "rotten" apple.

Unless you've run countless times with another veno(s) in a multi-veno squad it really doesn't hurt to put you're heads together as you're getting ready for the BH, TT etc. and see who will bramble, who will spark who (as necessary) who has the higher amp, and how to rotate the curses so they do the most damage w/o overriding the previous curse's affect etc.

How to survive this game without a Herc

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