How to survive this game without a Herc

ApplePie_ - Heavens Tear

MindCrime - Harshlands wrote: »

LOL. You misread everyone's posts and make ridiculous assumptions it seems.

Are barbs necessary in this game? YES. What do think the gist of my post was about.

They are the tank class, obviously, and hercs can't tank everything.

Do I mind tanking things? No. But I am annoyed by barbs that always take the easy way out and EXPECT the veno with herc to tank all.

this is what tweakz does mindcrime he reads persons posts and writes nonsense cause he fails to see the message trying to be sent...

THE RESULTS ARE IN!!

tweakz..you are... NOT THE FATHER! joking he just has problems comprehending stuff b:sad

GROUP HUG FOR TWEAKZ EVERYBODY!! b:cute

MindCrime - Harshlands

ApplePie_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Anyone who has been playing this game long enough >HAS TO KNOW..WITHOUT A DOUBT< that vit increases survivability and YOU tweak thinks that vit is not good for venos HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA -pauses- HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Ahh...so that's why tweakz flamed me; I admitted to being vit arcane.

I'm not full vit. I'm a demon veno and added some vit for survivability in TW/ PvP.

HA veno is fail, IMO, unless you have the bux to get full sets of AA and HA end game gear and refine/ shard the **** out of them.

Not all of us have the money for that, dear.

ApplePie_ - Heavens Tear

MindCrime - Harshlands wrote: »

Ahh...so that's why tweakz flamed me; I admitted to being vit arcane.

I'm not full vit. I'm a demon veno and added some vit for survivability in TW/ PvP.

HA veno is fail, IMO, unless you have the bux to get full sets of AA and HA end game gear and refine/ shard the **** out of them.

Not all of us have the money for that, dear.

did you even understand what i posted o_o?...

MindCrime - Harshlands

ApplePie_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

did you even understand what i posted o_o?...

Lol. I was typing to tweakz, b:surrender

ApplePie_ - Heavens Tear

MindCrime - Harshlands wrote: »

Lol. I was typing to tweakz, b:surrender

ohh xDD..i hope he saw o_o >.> <.< i dont think he knows that we're not billionaires

Edit: Although i wish i was -sobs-, oh and know this tweakz, anytime i see you posting in forums, unless you're not talking nonsense I WILL remind people that you ARE a troll and you're opinion should not be taken seriously or into consideration

GuinevirX - Heavens Tear

ApplePie_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ohh xDD..i hope he saw o_o >.> <.< i dont think he knows that we're not billionaires

Edit: Although i wish i was -sobs-, oh and know this tweakz, anytime i see you posting in forums, unless you're not talking nonsense I WILL remind people that you ARE a troll and you're opinion should not be taken seriously or into consideration

I love u too , PWI against the troll infestation woohoho

tweakz

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

tweakz... did you just imply that a barb not wanting to do, uh, the job their class was created for has somehow more of an excuse for their behavior than does a veno who doesn't want to spend outrageous coin on a luxury pet just so that aforementioned barb can come along and ask the veno (hint, hint: NOT A TANKING CLASS) to do their job for them?

omfg you pathetic loser! Look at how much it cost a Barb to tank vs you. Look at how little dd you probably do compared to the Barb in human form, and then look at your ability to amp while Herc tanking. That "luxury" pet pays for itself and is a standard at ~80+, and a veno is a SOLO class. You shouldn't need a Barb to tank almost everything for you you pathetic piece of worthless garbage that prefers to mooch of others and bring down the value of Venos. Please quit the game you worthless self centered pos.

darksword551

.... Wow, I don't get it I feel as if herc really isn't needed but this thread acts like you really need it. I'll tell the truth I only wanted to play just for a little relief but with people arguing that you are just a pile of dirt without a sack of pixels (herc)... nevermind i don't know what to say b:surrender

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear

tweakz is being extra feisty in this thread. I am alarmed.

darksword551

Are people usually like this in these types of games.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Look at how much it cost a Barb to tank vs you.

so, you're basically advising all barbs to reroll veno and get a herc in order to save coin? because otherwise you make no effing sense at all.

seriously. nothing you're saying here computes unless you're implicitly claiming the herc has made barbs obsolete. consider:

Look at how little dd you probably do compared to the Barb in human form, and then look at your ability to amp while Herc tanking.

so you'd have the herc tanking and relegate the barb to human-form DD duty, because that way the barb will do more damage and make better use of your amping. right?

except, no, that's wrong, because that silly human-form barb could do SO MUCH MORE damage if he'd just reroll as a fist BM instead. and since you only seem to care about maximum damage dealt for minimum repair cost, that's presumably what you SHOULD be calling people pathetic losers for not doing.

off of the veno forum with you, tweakz! get yourself over to the barb forum and cuss them all out for rolling the wrong class! tell them they're all obsoleted by the herc and need to pick some other class. g'on wi'ye now, there's a good troll...

a veno is a SOLO class

hey, wasn't that you starting a thread not long ago, all about how a veno should play so as to be more useful to a SQUAD in RB? quit squadding, you're supposed to be playing a SOLO class, stop leeching off of all those other players and solo your own damn RB! b:chuckle

seriously, good trolling. you had me going for quite a while there, much better than that amateur yulk could ever manage, but you need to watch the internal consistency better. your contradictions finally raised enough cognitive dissonance to clue me in to what you were doing. perhaps quit making up claims and posts as you go along and actually script your character ahead of time?

darksword551

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

so, you're basically advising all barbs to reroll veno and get a herc in order to save coin? because otherwise you make no effing sense at all.

seriously. nothing you're saying here computes unless you're implicitly claiming the herc has made barbs obsolete. consider:



so you'd have the herc tanking and relegate the barb to human-form DD duty, because that way the barb will do more damage and make better use of your amping. right?

except, no, that's wrong, because that silly human-form barb could do SO MUCH MORE damage if he'd just reroll as a fist BM instead. and since you only seem to care about maximum damage dealt for minimum repair cost, that's presumably what you SHOULD be calling people pathetic losers for not doing.

off of the veno forum with you, tweakz! get yourself over to the barb forum and cuss them all out for rolling the wrong class! tell them they're all obsoleted by the herc and need to pick some other class. g'on wi'ye now, there's a good troll...



hey, wasn't that you starting a thread not long ago, all about how a veno should play so as to be more useful to a SQUAD in RB? quit squadding, you're supposed to be playing a SOLO class, stop leeching off of all those other players and solo your own damn RB! b:chuckle

seriously, good trolling. you had me going for quite a while there, much better than that amateur yulk could ever manage, but you need to watch the internal consistency better. your contradictions finally raised enough cognitive dissonance to clue me in to what you were doing. perhaps quit making up claims and posts as you go along and actually script your character ahead of time?

So, like is everyone gonna be rejecting me when i make it to endgame as people called just cause i don't have some fat man as a pet.

tweakz

darksword551 wrote: »

So, like is everyone gonna be rejecting me when i make it to endgame as people called just cause i don't have some fat man as a pet.

It's so much cheaper than 5aps and it scales with you. -Don't see what the problem is.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

darksword551 wrote: »

So, like is everyone gonna be rejecting me when i make it to endgame as people called just cause i don't have some fat man as a pet.

Not everyone, but sadly, many (maybe even most) groups will. It's sad because if the group already has the roles of tank and healer filled, then a herc's only advantage over a regular pet is as a back-up tank. If you're willing to forego the backup tank, any DPS pet will do fine or even better, including the ubiquitous magmites.

I'm not going to say you have to get a herc. The game is easy enough that it's plenty enjoyable without one, especially if you make some friends who just enjoy playing together, rather than people who try to min/max all their stats and skills. But there's no denying that a herc will expand the envelope of things you can do in the game, as well as make it easier to find groups.

darksword551

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not everyone, but sadly, many (maybe even most) groups will. It's sad because if the group already has the roles of tank and healer filled, then a herc's only advantage over a regular pet is as a back-up tank. If you're willing to forego the backup tank, any DPS pet will do fine or even better, including the ubiquitous magmites.

I'm not going to say you have to get a herc. The game is easy enough that it's plenty enjoyable without one, especially if you make some friends who just enjoy playing together, rather than people who try to min/max all their stats and skills. But there's no denying that a herc will expand the envelope of things you can do in the game, as well as make it easier to find groups.

No herc it is then b:victory

MindCrime - Harshlands

I'd take a barb (one that knows his class) over a herc tanking anyday.

With all the OP end game gear out there now, nine times out of ten the DDs will take agro off the herc anyway, and if you have a fail cleric that equals party wipe.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

@Tweakz; Lol, it seems calling other people losers comes too naturally, getting a lot of that lately? The truth of the matter is i may not be the only one who's gotten tired of your tone, you're calling me a troll? I'm not the one shoving my opinions down everyone's throat, the problem is you don't seem to realize is it's the way you express yourself that's becoming the issue.

For people who actually care about this thread's subject i think Solandri summed it up nicely.

rinuruc

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

except, no, that's wrong, because that silly human-form barb could do SO MUCH MORE damage if he'd just reroll as a fist BM instead. and since you only seem to care about maximum damage dealt for minimum repair cost, that's presumably what you SHOULD be calling people pathetic losers for not doing.

sadly you are wrong,... demon barbs with fists do 5aps too, and have similar dmg to fist-bm,... combine a fistbarb with bloodpaint and you have a pwnage tanker,... that also does insane dps

darksword551

Glad noone is being trolled anymore.

Quibie - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

>>>>>>>>.omfg you pathetic loser!<<<<<<< Look at how much it cost a Barb to tank vs you. Look at how little dd you probably do compared to the Barb in human form, and then look at your ability to amp while Herc tanking. That "luxury" pet pays for itself and is a standard at ~80+, and a veno is a SOLO class. You shouldn't need a Barb to tank almost everything for you >>>you pathetic piece of worthless garbage that prefers to mooch of others and bring down the value of Venos<<<. >>>Please quit the game you worthless self centered pos.<<<

that speaks for it self...

Is there something wrong with you?

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Hoorah for trolls. Woo.


Ok, ignoring the trolls - without a herc, what can you do?

You can still grind out every solo quest, trivially. A few more of the culti bosses will give you problems.

You can still tank *some* bosses - not as many, and not as early, but some.

Some bosses herc veno's can't tank. You're just as good (or better, depending on your pet) than a herc veno there.

You still pull, perhaps better than a herc veno who may have forgotten how.

You still have amp damage, you still have ironwood - most of your damage comes from adding to your squads damage that way.

Oddly, you can still AOE grind! Though not as quickly. I've been doing it a bit to train up my other pets, recently.

On any mob/boss that you CAN tank, you can hold aggro more solidly than a herc veno. A golem with four bash-like skills churns out the aggro.

So yeah - you do lose a few things, and squads will often be mean to you. But you don't actually lose that much.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hoorah for trolls. Woo.


Ok, ignoring the trolls - without a herc, what can you do?

You can still grind out every solo quest, trivially. A few more of the culti bosses will give you problems.

You can still tank *some* bosses - not as many, and not as early, but some.

Some bosses herc veno's can't tank. You're just as good (or better, depending on your pet) than a herc veno there.

You still pull, perhaps better than a herc veno who may have forgotten how.

You still have amp damage, you still have ironwood - most of your damage comes from adding to your squads damage that way.

Oddly, you can still AOE grind! Though not as quickly. I've been doing it a bit to train up my other pets, recently.

On any mob/boss that you CAN tank, you can hold aggro more solidly than a herc veno. A golem with four bash-like skills churns out the aggro.

So yeah - you do lose a few things, and squads will often be mean to you. But you don't actually lose that much.

Well said b:victory Someone should have done this a while ago and explain the differences better.

And lol at "You still pull, perhaps better than a herc veno who may have forgotten how." That is so true. I have seen way too many venomancers pull with hercules and bramble on that makes me sick. Not saying all Venomancers with hercules are horrible at luring but most of them that I have squaded with were.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Heh. Yes, I say it because I recognise it in myself. I'm FAR too used to just sending the herc in to kill all three mobs, that when I do need to pull, I'm nowhere near as good as I sued to be. Which is shameful, since I once fancied my abilities enough to literally write the book on it.

( http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Venomancer_Luring )

And... day before yesterday I died because I did the opposite. Sent herc in to kill a whole passel of skeleviziens in 79, forgot I had bramble off because I'd been luring archers, fired an AOE (or was it a heal?) and... oops.

So I guess my point is that you can mess up in both directions. And people who class herc veno's as lazy do have some justification. With a herc you don't need to learn all the difficult 'skin of your teeth' jobs.
But you CAN still go and learn those.

Desdi - Sanctuary

So you were the one who wrote that guide?? Woah
It is such a great guide. I did learn a couple of things I didn't know such as L-shape pulling and Corner pulling. I thought the person who wrote this is AMAZING!! b:laugh
I'm glad I finally met you!

Too bad not many people bother reading it b:sad

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

i've been reading that guide off and on for three months, thinking "half of this is still beyond anything i need at my level... oh, but that's a neat idea... and i'll have to practice that... oh, and..."

thank you very much for writing it, Vitenka.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Thank you to both of you, for the thanks. Honesty compels me to point out that although I started it and contributed the bulk, it's not wholly mine any more, since it's a community wiki and other people can add to it (and have done so)

And also, almost everything in it is over the top. Very very rarely do we need to do anything other than plain-old-lure (and indeed, only whilst earthflame is in cooldown, much of the time, will squads tolerate you taking the time to do it properly)

But yes, it's nice to know we can do all those things. And occasionally it's lifesaving to do them.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

tweakz made me lol

"if your not pure magic veno with a herc, your fail"

"without 450 magic, your fail"

"if you don't have -chan, you are fail"

"VIT venoes fail"

"poor at AOE aggro"

b:laugh even underleveled squishy pets are not hard to keep alive tweakz, you must be having a level 1 pet heal b:bye

Yurisuri - Sanctuary

I always like reading what tweakz has to say it makes for a good comedy routine. Hey I still have yet to have a herc and yet I do fine without it. I may once I get into the upper 90s or so work to acquire a Herc or Nix but I am in no rush. Most of my skills are all level 10 and yes tweakz I do use Amp and such to great effect. Really my stats and gear are set too I have had no trouble and will keep having none. Why post such a negative view? If the thread does not have what you seek move on. But I suppose you will not listen but I respect you oh mighty tweakz :P. I know how to play my class so keep blowing the wind.

In other news just play how you want this is a game not a job. Well for some it is but you get the idea. Cheer on fellow venos, yes even you tweak.

Silvia_Xenth - Lost City

Tweak plz stay at ur pve server and **** 101 fail veno we on pvp dont give a **** about
a pve server veno fail opinion.

i was sooo desapointed when i saw ur from a pve server and talking so much sht u do
and 2 only have 33 kills omfg.

from now on if u talk ill say that a fail veno from a pve server have no room 2 talk about BUILDS GEAR PVP KILLS whatsoever.

u wana we knewn come 2 pvp server u coward or **** fail veno

tweakz

Silvia_Xenth - Lost City wrote: »

Tweak plz stay at ur pve server and **** 101 fail veno we on pvp dont give a **** about
a pve server veno fail opinion.

i was sooo desapointed when i saw ur from a pve server and talking so much sht u do
and 2 only have 33 kills omfg.

from now on if u talk ill say that a fail veno from a pve server have no room 2 talk about BUILDS GEAR PVP KILLS whatsoever.

u wana we knewn come 2 pvp server u coward or **** fail veno

Sure do blat a lot for someone that don't care.