I hate how overpowered 5.0 aps is

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Rawrgh - Raging Tide
Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
edited November 2010 in General Discussion
I hate it. I hate how one person can do so much damage in PvE and it's overpowered.


But, I don't hate it for the fact that it's OP, I myself have a pair of lunar claws and I'm working on saving up more -interval gear.


No, I hate it because it breeds BMs that use nothing but fists 24/7, even without having the necessary -interval gear.


Last TT3-3 I was in, BM comes in "Ok you just attack or w/e, my DPS is too high for you to hold aggro" We rush up to the boss BM tries to tank it, I look at his gear and he has TT90 fists and no -interval gear. A roar and a few flesh reams later I've got aggro under control.


I did an FC run, I go pull all the mobs over to shade, archer runs up to them, unequips his +3 TT90 Xbow, switch to unrefined lvl 60 mold fists and starts attacking each mob one at a time.

I've seen a BM that in TW never uses axes, instead he just uses the lvl 85 green FC fists.

I did a BH51 on my BM, we had a level 70 BM that said he would tank. All he did the entire time was lure the mobs one by one and then auto attack with fists. Eventually I got bored and told the clerics to heal me, ran up to mobs and started AOEing.

I haven't had a delta yet where a BM used nothing but fists the entire time but I've only been with like 2 different BMs.
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Post edited by Rawrgh - Raging Tide on
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I've only been with like 2 different BMs.

    Care to share the memories? b:dirty
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • OIdpop - Heavens Tear
    OIdpop - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    My main is an axe/fist bm the only - interval gear i have is the tt90 wrist gold.Demon spark along with hf,veno amp,genie skills(tangling mire/extreme poison) yes the dmg is amazing!16 sec of pure hell on any mob.But killing **** one at a time when u can go in and round up and aoe axe them down to death is plain stupid.

    aoe with axes you dorks!..save fist for boss or a solo mob standing around..or to build chi on a solo mob standing around lol.


    if a bm just uses fist in a delta..just kick him out lol....welll see how he does against wave 3 then kick him out....if he lives..he is super pro and a demigod.
    This game is like washing hair with shampoo... Rinse and repeat if desired.
    Proud owner of many mains.101 bm,101 seeker,101 demon sin,100 sage sin,101 archer,101 barb,100 cleric,100 wiz( first toon since sept 08 finally made it in 2013)newly added mystic 100 HA,72 psy.
  • Egaenil - Heavens Tear
    Egaenil - Heavens Tear Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Can you tell me how to kick a bm in delta pls
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"
  • volst
    volst Posts: 180
    edited August 2010
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    What do you expect really? You're on a pve server. 90% won't bother to learn anything else.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    "Ok you just attack or w/e, my DPS is too high for you to hold aggro"

    Lol fail BMs are funny.

    I got SOO pissed when one of my ex faction mate was using FC green claws on FC pulls. I was like "Dude, if you don't wana AoE with your f-ing axes, give them to me and I'll AoE".
  • /Gohan - Dreamweaver
    /Gohan - Dreamweaver Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    5.0 APS is some expensive ****, and this is a pay to win mmo. Were you expecting 5 APS players to do a funny dance?
  • MiniST - Sanctuary
    MiniST - Sanctuary Posts: 604 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    /Gohan - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    5.0 APS is some expensive ****, and this is a pay to win mmo. Were you expecting 5 APS players to do a funny dance?

    You know, when those 5 aps bm attack, they actually do do a funny dance b:chuckle
  • Loltank - Harshlands
    Loltank - Harshlands Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Thank you for summing up my thoughts on this.

    I facepalm everytime I see a BM using fists without interval gear.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »
    Thank you for summing up my thoughts on this.

    I facepalm everytime I see a BM using fists without interval gear.

    Well, same level fists are still better dps than other weapons even w/o interval. It's just bad when 9X BM use TT60 mold fists or they use them when lots of targers are around....
  • Kephras - Heavens Tear
    Kephras - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    It's funny you should mention that, Rawrgh, since to me that's actually the best part of the whole 5-APS craze. It's given other classes a whole new way to be fail, while making my job as tank that much easier. :) It makes me laugh a bit to see characters running around with fists going "dur, I r pro," without making the connection that real fist/claw power comes from stacking those stupidly expensive -interval gears.
  • J_Balt - Heavens Tear
    J_Balt - Heavens Tear Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

    Last TT3-3 I was in, BM comes in "Ok you just attack or w/e, my DPS is too high for you to hold aggro" We rush up to the boss BM tries to tank it, I look at his gear and he has TT90 fists and no -interval gear. A roar and a few flesh reams later I've got aggro under control.

    Mayhaps said Bm never ran with a decent barb. Any Lv.90 barb, should be able to hold aggro from a Bm with lunar cape, fc gold fist and gold 90wrist. Get more aps and it gets tough b:cry

    I find aps overpowered when a single Bm can solo 3-x, with a sin buff, in less time than an average squad can b:surrender
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    I know, its funny as hell with players calling themselves "pro fist BM" and tries to join my Nirvana/BH party.

    Than you invite them an see that they have like lvl 88 molder fists +2 and no interval gear at all. Only usage for them would be Dragon slaves - to bad they didn't even bring axes to the instance since they think 2.0 is hot shiet <,<

    Than i end yup tanking everything as a squishy 5.0 archer + **** my charm since those "pro fist Bms" are useless and have no freaking clue what interval means.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Same level fists even without interval is slightly higher DPS yes.

    But when BMs, and actually archers are more prone to this than BMs IMO, use 6x or 7x fists with no interval gear instead of a +4 TT90 wep then it's pretty rage inducing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,161 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    lmao... reminds me of when I was helping a friend with BH51 and their 6x barb was using fists in humanoid form and going on about how great they were.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Evict is a sexy chalupa. <3
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  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    lmao... reminds me of when I was helping a friend with BH51 and their 6x barb was using fists in humanoid form and going on about how great they were.
    I use claws in humanoid form lol.


    Of course then again I actually have some -interval gears, although I really just use them when I'm either not tanking or, well I did use them for nein quest but not anymore lol.

    I haven't really tanked using them, I'm plan on getting the cape and another peice of TT99 lionheart before I try to tank using the claws, so far I just have the lunar claws and TT99 wrists.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    At least with 5.0 4 classes are capable of achieving it.

    Of the other 4:

    1) Cleric - needed in almost every party
    2) Veno - is useful to 5.0 classes for the amp alone but also can pull
    3) Wizard - useless in instances but at least they dominate end game pvp
    4) Psychic - kinda sucks to be you!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Stilleh - Raging Tide
    Stilleh - Raging Tide Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    OIdpop - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    My main is an axe/fist bm the only - interval gear i have is the tt90 wrist gold.Demon spark along with hf,veno amp,genie skills(tangling mire/extreme poison) yes the dmg is amazing!16 sec of pure hell on any mob.But killing **** one at a time when u can go in and round up and aoe axe them down to death is plain stupid.

    aoe with axes you dorks!..save fist for boss or a solo mob standing around..or to build chi on a solo mob standing around lol.

    QFT.

    I'm a 92BM with some -Int gear, (Gorenox vanities, TT90gold bracers, Lunar cape). I wouldn't go in with fists in a fight with +2 mobs, but as soon as there is only one mob left I switch to fists to build chi (anything else is stupid too, common logic really...).

    But I have to say that there are AxeonlyBMs that are equally worthless as FistonlyBMs. Don't know how many BMs I've run FC with for example, that only use Axes throughout the instance. No MP charm and autoattacking on bosses 'cause they don't have mana... If you are lucky they might have enough chi to eventually throw in 1 HF during a bossfight, maybe. People are so stuck up on that they have to DPS the hell out of the mob. BMs are great at DPSing, but we also have one of the best, if not THE best, damage amp skill in the game, HF, and if you aren't using it everytime the cooldown is off in a bossfight, you fail in my book. It makes baby Jesus cry...
    "I must not fear. Fear is the mindkiller. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone, there will be nothing...
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    sooooo people are stil lfcking up the bm class?

    woo~ job security
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • SnowMaster - Raging Tide
    SnowMaster - Raging Tide Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Just a response to you sig, Rawrgh, come up with a plan to take down QQme already ;D

    And in response to the topic, if you're gonna use fists at least use Lunar fists, or good fists in general. Half the people who play pw have the mentality of 7 year olds. What enrages me is lvl 70+'s who have white weapons that probably dropped from a mob in one of their quests =_=.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    SnowMaster - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Just a response to you sig, Rawrgh, come up with a plan to take down QQme already ;D

    And in response to the topic, if you're gonna use fists at least use Lunar fists, or good fists in general. Half the people who play pw have the mentality of 7 year olds. What enrages me is lvl 70+'s who have white weapons that probably dropped from a mob in one of their quests =_=.
    I'm taking QQme down from the inside.


    But don't tell Man.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • SnowMaster - Raging Tide
    SnowMaster - Raging Tide Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I'm taking QQme down from the inside.


    But don't tell Man.

    b:shutup What are you, the master of sabotage? xD

    Wait that IS what you are.

    On a side side side note: This pistachio nut gelato is very delicious.
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    When killing a boss, fists > other weapons even without any int gear. Also, from what I've seen, current barb population is full of "lure plz" noobs who don't want to take more than one mob at a time.

    Ever since I started doing BH69 I noticed one thing. All the cashshopper BMs that I have squaded with have been axe BMs. They know their job well and can usually tank nob&pole with their almost 7k HP but can't hold aggro. Gets kinda boring to use TT70 sword with level 3 mastery and still have a chance of taking aggro.

    But yeah, BMs fail all the time. It doesn't matter which path is "hot" at the time.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I hate it. I hate how one person can do so much damage in PvE and it's overpowered.


    But, I don't hate it for the fact that it's OP, I myself have a pair of lunar claws and I'm working on saving up more -interval gear.


    No, I hate it because it breeds BMs that use nothing but fists 24/7, even without having the necessary -interval gear.


    Last TT3-3 I was in, BM comes in "Ok you just attack or w/e, my DPS is too high for you to hold aggro" We rush up to the boss BM tries to tank it, I look at his gear and he has TT90 fists and no -interval gear. A roar and a few flesh reams later I've got aggro under control.


    I did an FC run, I go pull all the mobs over to shade, archer runs up to them, unequips his +3 TT90 Xbow, switch to unrefined lvl 60 mold fists and starts attacking each mob one at a time.

    I've seen a BM that in TW never uses axes, instead he just uses the lvl 85 green FC fists.

    I did a BH51 on my BM, we had a level 70 BM that said he would tank. All he did the entire time was lure the mobs one by one and then auto attack with fists. Eventually I got bored and told the clerics to heal me, ran up to mobs and started AOEing.

    I haven't had a delta yet where a BM used nothing but fists the entire time but I've only been with like 2 different BMs.
    why do you hate it? its a great chance to show them their place and their ignorance on the needed gears.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
    ★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    When killing a boss, fists > other weapons even without any int gear.

    No. Just no.

    Below the level at which you're refining your gear to +5 or above and have no -int, fists are not the best weapon of choice. Use them to try and get chi faster, sure, but the number of failure low level archers or low level BMs with no -int gear I see is horrible.

    They all think they can tank bosses and do this huge great super awesome amount of damage, and then they all cry when the barb takes aggro back because at the lower levels and before stacked -int, fists just aren't that powerful.

    But because everybody talks about how OP fists/claws are and because nearly everybody is now aiming for the expensive -int build, everybody assumes that fists must be OP for this very reason regardless of level. And it's not freaking true and it's breeding a whole new level of failures, who will cry to the point their tears could grow crops because they're too dumb to understand why fists suck if you don't have a couple of pieces of -int and nicely refined fists.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    No. Just no.

    Below the level at which you're refining your gear to +5 or above and have no -int, fists are not the best weapon of choice. Use them to try and get chi faster, sure, but the number of failure low level archers or low level BMs with no -int gear I see is horrible.

    They all think they can tank bosses and do this huge great super awesome amount of damage, and then they all cry when the barb takes aggro back because at the lower levels and before stacked -int, fists just aren't that powerful.

    But because everybody talks about how OP fists/claws are and because nearly everybody is now aiming for the expensive -int build, everybody assumes that fists must be OP for this very reason regardless of level. And it's not freaking true and it's breeding a whole new level of failures, who will cry to the point their tears could grow crops because they're too dumb to understand why fists suck if you don't have a couple of pieces of -int and nicely refined fists.

    I never said the main point was tanking. It's just that spamming skills with my axes does less damage than auto-attacking with my fists. I know perfectly fine that I can't hold aggro over same-level barb, but I also know that I can hold aggro over on-level axe BM. Which means I'm doing more damage. So, even if I'm not tanking, I do more damage by auto-attacking with my fists than by spamming skills with my axes. Which was my point here.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I never said the main point was tanking. It's just that spamming skills with my axes does less damage than auto-attacking with my fists. I know perfectly fine that I can't hold aggro over same-level barb, but I also know that I can hold aggro over on-level axe BM. Which means I'm doing more damage. So, even if I'm not tanking, I do more damage by auto-attacking with my fists than by spamming skills with my axes. Which was my point here.

    And my main point was that if you're going to have this attitude, you damned well say that no, you don't take, and also no, it's not all that worth it until you get the -int gear and refines to really make it worth while.

    Know something? In all honesty, I'd take a BM who knows to switch weapons and utilise his/her skills (i.e. HF/stuns/whatever) over a BM who just sits there and auto-attacks on his fists all the time. Which is what I'm starting to see a lot of BMs and even low 6x/7x archers do.

    Your statement that "Yeah, fists > all else" leads the noobs into thinking that this really does mean fists > all else and they never use other weapons and never utilise the skills that are useful at the level at which they play.

    And this is why people are starting to have a problem. It's breeding a whole new type of noob.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lenore - Harshlands
    Lenore - Harshlands Posts: 1,201 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    [Forum] Lenore: The only thing that's making the fists so "OP" is that once the wielder gets enough interval, he or she can remain permasparked on a fatty target (bosses). You're hitting hard cuz you're sparked and you gain enough chi that by the time your spark runs out you can spark again, so you're always hitting many times harder than usual. If you do not have the interval to earn 3 sparks while in spark mode (thus easier with demons), fists will not outdps "normal DDs" such as archers. I would have to agree with Airyll here; the interval is what counts and fists are terrible for classes that have alternate weapons until that perma-sparked interval is reached.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    And my main point was that if you're going to have this attitude, you damned well say that no, you don't take, and also no, it's not all that worth it until you get the -int gear and refines to really make it worth while.
    Worth what? The price for the weapon? Fists with no interval out DPS skill spamming and that's a fact.
    Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »
    If you do not have the interval to earn 3 sparks while in spark mode (thus easier with demons), fists will not outdps "normal DDs" such as archers. I would have to agree with Airyll here; the interval is what counts and fists are terrible for classes that have alternate weapons until that perma-sparked interval is reached.

    BS, my BM's 2.86 sparked (no where near perma spark), and no 90 Archer can out DPS me with a bow. Interval improves fists obviously, but fits are not "terrible for classes that have alternate weapons " when it comes to 1v1 DD-ing even without interval.
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    And my main point was that if you're going to have this attitude, you damned well say that no, you don't take, and also no, it's not all that worth it until you get the -int gear and refines to really make it worth while.

    Know something? In all honesty, I'd take a BM who knows to switch weapons and utilise his/her skills (i.e. HF/stuns/whatever) over a BM who just sits there and auto-attacks on his fists all the time.

    Your statement that "Yeah, fists > all else" leads the noobs into thinking that this really does mean fists > all else and they never use other weapons and never utilise the skills that are useful at the level at which they play.

    And this is why people are starting to have a problem. It's breeding a whole new type of noob.

    Oh yeah I forgot that, noobs tend to think too one-sided. Anyway, when fighting a boss (WB or dungeon boss, anything that can't be stunned like Silver Frost), it's pretty much fist autoattacking for 30secs, HF, back to fists.

    The BMs that actually know something usually use all weapon paths anyway. Axes for stunning if Roar isn't enough and of course for HF and AoEing, fists for 1vs1 (most barbs ask people to lure even the physical only mobs) and boss killing/chi building, spear for pushing mobs in RB and Farstrike if the mob is inside the wall or something.

    But saying that fists aren't the best weapon to kill a boss is wrong. BM damage without int gear isn't nothing special, but you build enough chi for HF which is the point here.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Worth what? The price for the weapon? Fists with no interval out DPS skill spamming and that's a fact.

    Learn to read the rest of a post?

    Then maybe you'd have caught the "at 6x and 7x levels it's a better deal to use your skills too" part and the "because everybody sits here claiming fists are OP, all the noobs are now using fists thinking they're epic tanks and can out DD anything, then cry when they lose aggro to a barb, Herc or caster class"

    b:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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