Wizards vs Assasins...

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Just because YOU suck at finding people around you and don't have good enough reflexes to counter them, doesn't mean that the opponent is good. Balance is properly done when people play to their full capacity.

Maybe I do suck because I don't like to be paranoid and stressed out checking minimap and pressing T every 3 seconds while I'm playing a game. But then so do most other people I'm sure.

You really have no idea what it's like to constantly visually locate every green dot that appears on the minimap and determine whether they're just someone flying by or they're actually there to rpk you. Sometimes you can't even do that because you're focuses on killing a boss or whatever.

So don't be so quick to judge when you haven't really experienced it yourself on a PvE server.

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Because we have legitimate reasons to do so?
Why is it always other classes who have players that lack reflexes that say wizards are best? Don't blame your opponents for being too good, blame yourself for sucking.

And of course no matter how much data and theory is analyzed (to show why wizard "high damage" requires a lot of combo, or OP gear in comparison to ****-geared opponent) people will never listen, so why should I bother?

You really don't have any legitimate reason because wizards are the top PvP class endgame. Go ask general discussion where it's not just a bunch of wizards QQing to be even more powerful and they will tell you the same.

People say sin this and sin that but it's the wizards that rule TW which is what counts in PvP. Despite what everyone says, sins are actually better PvE characters because of -interval + bloodpaint allowing them to solo a lot of bosses/instances. Ever played a sin in TW? It sucks.

Wizards can end up with better defenses on both sides than any other class and still dish out major damage. Don't talk about how people can use stuff to counter wizards because you're making it sound like people are just waiting to counter you and wizards end up never being able to cast anything in a tw.

And yes you guys QQ a lot. This is the only board where there are constantly massive topics about how bad wizards are. . Stuff like "can't kill assassins", "wizard vs psychic", "QQ 5aps makes our dmg look bad", ", "QQ nix owns me".

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I find it funny that people think wizards can pull that perfect BIDS crit every 5 seconds or so. Extreme Poison, chi, whatever other stuff, debuffs and such... those are on 100% of the time. It's not like, if opponent evades BIDS, wizard is completely down at that point with nothing left except running away.

No you're right. I don't think wizards can pull off a perfect bids every 5 seconds. People also think that sins can wtfpwn everyone instantly with no skill and no effort as soon as they pop out of stealth. If you truly believe this, then you're no better than the people that think wizards can always pull off the perfect bids whenever they fight someone.

Go play a sin, get it to 9x and see if you can pwn even wizards with equivalent or better gear let alone BMs and Barbs while being half brained and having no skill as Ursa seems to think.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lol, useless genie skills? dude, you're brain damaged.
ppl that kill your barb are usually ranged. The melee that are stupid enough to try will die to fast to do any kind of important dmg if there is any kind of communication in that cata team.
To attk a barb full buffed in tiger with melee seems to make some sense in your head that's why I'm just going to ignore you since you're a waste of my time and a never ending source of stupidity on wizard forum, stupidity I can't be bothered to combat anymore. Being (auto)brain washed about game mechanics in PWI serves no one. Too bad for the poor guys trying to read your posts with the hope they can learn something.

LE: Even Borsuc can spot you're a fail. That's pretty low.

Why are you so angry? It's just a discussion but when someone has a difference of opinion and posts legitimate arguments, you resort to calling them noob, stupid and brain damaged. If you can't keep it civil, then I think you're better off just ignoring me and not posting anymore.

I'm done with this unbalanced stupid game. I don't play anymore.
Yesterday was killed in cube by lv. 89 assassin. I couldn't do ANYTHING just watch as he killing me. Enough if enough. I was also online discussing with GM after I was killed. He was unable to tell me, what I should do against them. NOTHING just told me I should send some suggestions. HA,HA,HA,HA,HA
STUPID GAME. Absolutely not worth playing because of unbalanced races.b:angry

I don't think that GM cannot do anything. I'm leasing the car and if car would be seriously broken I have right to return it. So I think GM has some word in China dev. if they paying for license.
I'm going on private server and wait till GW2.

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

Maybe I do suck because I don't like to be paranoid and stressed out checking minimap and pressing T every 3 seconds while I'm playing a game. But then so do most other people I'm sure.

You really have no idea what it's like to constantly visually locate every green dot that appears on the minimap and determine whether they're just someone flying by or they're actually there to rpk you. Sometimes you can't even do that because you're focuses on killing a boss or whatever.

So don't be so quick to judge when you haven't really experienced it yourself on a PvE server.

/facepalm

I said that it doesn't matter. Whether you suck or not, or whether I suck or not, or whether you don't want to be paranoid. BALANCE IS NOT ABOUT PLAYER MOOD. It's a mechanical thing. It's not whether people don't expect wizards to 1-shot them without paying attention. That's player decision.

For example, if I decide to never ever attack sins, does that make them invincible?

Balance is not an opinion. It is centered around data.

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

You really don't have any legitimate reason because wizards are the top PvP class endgame. Go ask general discussion where it's not just a bunch of wizards QQing to be even more powerful and they will tell you the same.

I don't care what butthurt people say over wizards when they get 1-shotted.

Those people would want to NEVER die from a wiz in 1-shot. You know what that makes wizards? Totally worthless.

Butthurt opinions =/= reasonable balance suggestions.

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

Wizards can end up with better defenses on both sides than any other class and still dish out major damage. Don't talk about how people can use stuff to counter wizards because you're making it sound like people are just waiting to counter you and wizards end up never being able to cast anything in a tw.

And yes you guys QQ a lot. This is the only board where there are constantly massive topics about how bad wizards are. . Stuff like "can't kill assassins", "wizard vs psychic", "QQ 5aps makes our dmg look bad", ", "QQ nix owns me".

Because it's true? I think we agree that most people say wizards suck before endgame. I mean gosh, so many people say wizards are underpowered pre-endgame, you think that it's just unreasonable QQing? It's based around data and facts.

Now they may not suck at endgame, but they sure are not top anymore with MANY MORE having uber DEFENSIVE gear. They were probably top when everyone refined only their weapons and had TT90 defense gear.

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

Why are you so angry? It's just a discussion but when someone has a difference of opinion and posts legitimate arguments, you resort to calling them noob, stupid and brain damaged. If you can't keep it civil, then I think you're better off just ignoring me and not posting anymore.

Never called you a noob, stupid or brain damage. :P

And besides, when I asked you if you suck, it was rhetorical question. It was meant along the line that you "sucking" (you = generic, since you're a psy anyway, not a melee class) has nothing to do with balance and should NOT affect balance. Whether you (= people) who don't check mini-map and so and so. It is completely IRRELEVANT. My point.

I actually don't think wizards are the worst class at all. I think MAGIC CLASSES suck in this game (maybe except clerics for PvE).

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I disagree, wizards are very overpowered, are you using updated weapons or your level 50 stash weapons? You can kite and wiz lock. Clerics don't suck cause they heal slaves? Nah, they are more OP than that... Oh what about psychics voodoo + resist for 10 blasted seconds. Yeah, magic classes are very underpowered b:sweat

pre 90 wiz is horribly squishy.. it doesnt matter what weapon you have if u die in 1-2 shots.

the point was is that to be a good arcane user takes a **** load more skill to evade/kite attacks than it takes LA/Melee users to fly over and stunlock + autoattack, especially with occult ice.

+ u get into Damage per second issues vs wizards slow casts.

The only thing Id say clerics are OP is that we are pretty hard to kill for being an arcane.. but I wouldnt call that OP because we really cant kill hardly anything unless you have a nice refined weapon. OP defensively/survival, horrible DD's. Id rather be OP in killing and id say sins are OP in survival due to their self buff that negates 1 shots + force stealth.


Ill say it again, level up Yulk.. you think you know a lot about the game but you really don't.

since ur bringing up nonfactor issues with magic classes ill bring up:

5 attacks per second with bms and sins (yes its possible + expensive), combine that with stunlocks and you are toast even if u have +10 gear.

even fist barbs.. that with their stuns and their monstrous HP is sometimes very difficult to take down

Not gonna go into archers because they **** arcanes pretty easily if they have half decent gear.

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

/facepalm

I said that it doesn't matter. Whether you suck or not, or whether I suck or not, or whether you don't want to be paranoid. BALANCE IS NOT ABOUT PLAYER MOOD. It's a mechanical thing. It's not whether people don't expect wizards to 1-shot them without paying attention. That's player decision.

For example, if I decide to never ever attack sins, does that make them invincible?

Balance is not an opinion. It is centered around data.

Despite what you may think, the player does matter as well as the overall situation. It's not just about looking at the skills or the data and forming theories on paper. You have to look at it as a whole and player reaction time, activity etc all come into play. It's not a battle between 2 computers. But I'll leave this aspect of the discussion alone for now and address another which is balance.

The word balance gets thrown around a lot but what people really mean is "nerf something that owns me so my class can be better than them". You know deep down it's true.

The thing people QQ the most about sins is stealth and how they are stunned and dead without being able to do anything about it. So they say "balance it". But how? There are only 2 options, either remove it completely or make detection pots/genie skills available.

Except there's a problem. If you remove it, it makes the sin just a squishier crappier BM with worse skills. Worse stuns, worse anti-stun, worse aoes, worse survivability. No one would rather play a sin over a BM so that's not real balance.

If you have detection pots/skills, it doesn't change anything in PK unless you already know the sin is there (which in most instances of PK, you don't) so the sin can still stun and kill you before you can do anything and you will still QQ. Only thing is, with those pots/skills, you've effectively removed stealth having any viability in tw therefore unbalancing another aspect of PvP.

As you guys said earlier, the only difference between a sin and a bm is that you can see the BM coming. If both get to you and stun you, you're pretty much dead without being able to do anything. So you cry balance but what exactly is your idea for balancing?

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I don't care what butthurt people say over wizards when they get 1-shotted.

Those people would want to NEVER die from a wiz in 1-shot. You know what that makes wizards? Totally worthless.

Butthurt opinions =/= reasonable balance suggestions.

Same can be said about butthurt wizards dying to sins. No one cares except other wizards who want their class to be better than all the others so they can own it up.

@Astrohawke - We are tired of your idiotic babble. Just because you don't have the first clue about this game doesn't mean others are at your same level. This would be an excellent time to never post again.. ever.

So apparently if people disagree with your opinions it's just idiotic babble. I'm sorry if you expected only responses supporting you just because you posted on the wizard forums lol. I'm perfectly free to post on a public forum and voice my opinions and happy to have mature discussions with people who make sound arguments rather than those resorting to personal attacks so if you have nothing constructive to add maybe you shouldn't post here.

I've played both wiz and sin.. about the best you can hope for (besides cashing in a birthday wish for VERY good luck) is to have a kindhearted veno close by who just put bramble on you.

Wiz will probably still die, but at least you have a chance of taking the sin down with you.

After the sin kills you, go take out your aggression by 1 hitting 20 players grouped outside west arch with either BIDS or Blade Tempest. Be confident in the girth of your many many aoe's.

..Just postulating here, but...

As for getting snuck up on by a stealthy sin, if the hairs on the back of your neck tingle, DS to a close by mob, and pop on dragon's breath. (haven't actually tried it, but in theory it sounds like it might work) Only attack that could reach you w/o damaging the sin as well at that point is knife throw, and that would force the sin out of stealth outside their attack range.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Mine few seconds. I'm playing on private server now without, genies, anniversary pack, tideborns etc. and I have to say, that is MUCH better balanced than this **** of ****. I surprised myself how big difference is it. I recommend to try any1 especially GM. Maybe then they will realize how bad is this version of game.

also +30 attack lv bless is good and bad too and alot news what missing example from few server :P

Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »

pre 90 wiz is horribly squishy.. it doesnt matter what weapon you have if u die in 1-2 shots.

Its either from OP genie or lack of armor, wizard can 2 shot people back. + they have essential sutra with force of will > essential sutra > glacial snare > mountain seize > Sandstorm.... You have instant channeling

the point was is that to be a good arcane user takes a **** load more skill to evade/kite attacks than it takes LA/Melee users to fly over and stunlock + autoattack, especially with occult ice.

Takes skill to kite and evade? Level 10 gush / great cyclone is freaking insane, 92% chance to slow, and not only that, you can seal lock as well, again force of will on wizards are just easy to manage with, clerics can use chromatic seal its really that easy. And I loled at auto attack, barbs and archers are terrible at auto attacking unless if they are using fists with max -int or your fighting archers in long range

+ u get into Damage per second issues vs wizards slow casts.

Damage per second = casting times, without -int, aps is utterly garbage without having more than 1 attacks per second vs slower casts with range. Wizards hit like a truck to heavy users

The only thing Id say clerics are OP is that we are pretty hard to kill for being an arcane.. but I wouldnt call that OP because we really cant kill hardly anything unless you have a nice refined weapon. OP defensively/survival, horrible DD's. Id rather be OP in killing and id say sins are OP in survival due to their self buff that negates 1 shots + force stealth.

Horrible DDs? Wrong, I find clerics dealing hit hard as well both to heavy and arcane, elemental seal + metal attacks like wield thunder, I am sure you don't know that. And sins are pretty OP too with huge chi gain and attack levels and stealth (abused cooldown only)

Ill say it again, level up Yulk.. you think you know a lot about the game but you really don't.

And I'll say learn to play

since ur bringing up nonfactor issues with magic classes ill bring up:

5 attacks per second with bms and sins (yes its possible + expensive), combine that with stunlocks and you are toast even if u have +10 gear.

ofc -int gears are broken, so is -chan and with jolly jones blessing. We are playing the same game? 5 aps bms and sins have to get up close to you, while you have your freaking locks just like bms and sins do

even fist barbs.. that with their stuns and their monstrous HP is sometimes very difficult to take down

those are fail barbs if they don't have the refines and -int right? Barbs are meant for HP, not fists, and I loled because they can't even go in tiger form with fists as I remember which makes them easy to kite for arcane classes.

Not gonna go into archers because they **** arcanes pretty easily if they have half decent gear.

How much physical defense you have? and are you fighting archers from far? I saw an assassin beating an archer and even though he was a noob and cheated <_<

you got to be wrong about archers


Oh and I saw a cleric dueling an archer, but cleric made him slept and she won o_o

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

Your opinion of my opinion has no value. Anyone can say "you're a noob and know nothing". For all I know, you're a noob wiz who oracled to 100 and are now getting owned because you have no skill. Your opinions as a wizard are also clearly biased in any discussion of wizard vs anything.

My arguments are valid and all you've done is avoided responding by attacking me personally. So for anyone reading this who isn't a biased wizard like yourself, it's clear it's your posts that have no substance.

Just answer on this simple question. Is it ok, when lv. 89 assassin kill almost 2 years playing wizard lv.101(HP 5400) with no wizard's chance to hit back? If you say yes you are really nut. b:angry

Ok as a demon wiz(even sage i guess) I offer the most unlikely of solution.....emberstorm.

yes

failageddon


in duels it is a constant game winner, pk it requires very quick reflexes.

the deal: if you have selected said SIN and hit ember, you still charge even though he dissapears from the radar, and since it is an AOE......

at the burst he reappears and in the case of demon can be stunned. then i sutra/heal and a whatever spells i think i need.

Now i dont know if its my lag, but it seems that all spells stop when they stealth...emberstorm did not.

try it on a friend SIN and see

Alimion - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ok as a demon wiz(even sage i guess) I offer the most unlikely of solution.....emberstorm.

yes

failageddon


in duels it is a constant game winner, pk it requires very quick reflexes.

the deal: if you have selected said SIN and hit ember, you still charge even though he dissapears from the radar, and since it is an AOE......

at the burst he reappears and in the case of demon can be stunned. then i sutra/heal and a whatever spells i think i need.

Now i dont know if its my lag, but it seems that all spells stop when they stealth...emberstorm did not.

try it on a friend SIN and see

I think it's your lag, or the sin stealths and runs out of your range, thus canceling your attack.

Anywho Id recommend using Mountain Seize or another ulti instead of emberstorm if you are gonna do a long cast skill, but it really is pointless in the long run because u first have to survive the sin's attack to even try to pull it off, a good sin will realize if he cant take you down on his first attempt and holy path/wind push away out of your range then stealth to try again.

im still learning pvp on my mage kew kew, i speak based on watching other (well geared) mages.

Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »

I think it's your lag, or the sin stealths and runs out of your range, thus canceling your attack.

Anywho Id recommend using Mountain Seize or another ulti instead of emberstorm if you are gonna do a long cast skill, but it really is pointless in the long run because u first have to survive the sin's attack to even try to pull it off, a good sin will realize if he cant take you down on his first attempt and holy path/wind push away out of your range then stealth to try again.

I agree, emberstorm is garbage... that is until demon emberstorm, but you can control the channeling less than even 0.5 seconds where you also spend less HP but do less damage.

If a level 89 sin can kill a 101 wizard without the wizard being able to do anything, then the wizard isn't very good. For starters, an 89 sin has basically no interval to speak of. So they're basically spamming skills at you. If you can't survive some skill spam from someone 12 levels lower then I don't know what to say.

Assassin demon sparks 35m away from wizard (lvl 11 Force of Will has 30m range) -> instant teleport stun -> game over, without expel or absolute domain. And smart assassins use occult ice b:bye
And a lvl 101 wizard with tt90 equipment does not have a better survivability than a lvl 90.
(Not talking about Mumintroll)
With Attack Level +30 blessing, it is kinda easy to kill someone above your level now.

Scenario: Sin attacks you -> absolute domain -> sin enters stealth when you are about to win -> he comes back with full chi after 20-30 seconds while you are almost out of chi and genie skills on cooldown/not enough hp recovered -> wizard x_X
3 minutes cooldown on domain is just too long.

No -interval gears at lvl 89?
Wristguards, tt80 daggers, lvl 60 rank chest, maybe even -interval tome!

I'm not surprised you are defending your class.
Everyone knows they made assassins overpowered to earn more $.
They didn't want to give us an "okay" class and they also know, when they fix the nix bleed, nobody will pay for this pet anymore...
PS: I miss daggers with purify effect

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Exactly.
My all story was, that I survive his first attack chain and escape, but he disappear of course. I didn't survive his second attack chain. I hadn't chance even hit him. That's what pissed me off. Now I'm really happy on private server without this invisible bull**** ****.

adaptability, it's what filters out the pros from the noobs. If you cant find a way...any way to beat a new class, then I feel bad for you. Sure you may have played for almost 2 years, and maybe ur an uber pro, or whatever, but if you can't face off against a new class, and Q.Q about getting killed by 1 sin (probably more but you only gave 1 example) then I truely feel sorry for you wasting 2 years. Adaptability.....don't Q.Q and ragequit...just learn how to counter a sin. Hell, I have a character of every class at least 3x, and I pvp fine against sins, it just depends on how good they are (and ofc I now that 30-89/100 is way different, i'm just giving an example). I just think you're pissed because you aren't the most feared, 1 shot and kill everything you see class ever person anymore, with wizards amazingly high pdef after stone barrier (especially demons of 150%) and awesome mag dmg especially with BIDS lol...tell me, why did you first make a wiz?...maybe it looked cool etc....why did you lvl it to 100? eh?...cause you could perhaps own everything in sight?...well now, once another class comes around and can kill you as easily as you can other classes, you start to Q.Q because now you aren't at the top of the PWI food chain anymore. Instead of Q.Qing and making statements against the company that brought you (and all the private servers) pwi, maybe you could thank them for giving you an opponent that is even with you in terms of killing power. It is also a good time for you to learn some new tactics other than, Woosh hehe roflpwnedorz.....now you actually have to worry about another class. So to you Q.Qing failnub, gf b:cool