How to survive this game without a Herc

Zoe - Heavens Tear · July 2010

I never had any problems without a herc. I was on this game since day 1 so I didn't even have a herc until level 75. Used my crystaline magmite until then and I'm glad I did. I actually found the game to be much more fun without a herc.

Not being able to tank almost the entire game really makes you learn how to use your class better since its not nearly as easy to survive.

Do hercless venos fail? Heck no! Often enough I find them better than ones with hercs since they know more about what they are doing.

I was tanking most of everyones bosses with my golem and kept being asked to run dungeons. That continues to this day, where I run a dungeon with a random person, then they friend me and ask me to run a lot more, even ones above my level. Not because I have a herc, but because of everything I learned when I didn't.

Silvia_Xenth - Lost City · July 2010

reason why i give a **** is cos u give nobie venomancer fail info when A: pve server dont have the ooh look 1 pker after ur **** kinda attitude B so vit veno will or might help venos
survive if they dont have the coin 2 invest in a free game ooh wait u wouldent knew cos ur a chicken on a pve server.

Stupid ppl with stupid belief when u hade the game all carefree from lv1 all the way to end game talk sht now when they get to end game g_t_f_o u fail veno u wouldent knew sht even if it was up ur ****.

now as i said come 2 a pvp server and tell me all that once u reach 70+ on pvp server plz or shoot urself. venomancer dont need **** info from ppl like u who only played easy mode.

b:shutup

MindCrime - Harshlands · July 2010

Silvia_Xenth - Lost City wrote: »

reason why i give a **** is cos u give nobie venomancer fail info when A: pve server dont have the ooh look 1 pker after ur **** kinda attitude B so vit veno will or might help venos
survive if they dont have the coin 2 invest in a free game ooh wait u wouldent knew cos ur a chicken on a pve server.

Stupid ppl with stupid belief when u hade the game all carefree from lv1 all the way to end game talk sht now when they get to end game g_t_f_o u fail veno u wouldent knew sht even if it was up ur ****.

now as i said come 2 a pvp server and tell me all that once u reach 70+ on pvp server plz or shoot urself. venomancer dont need **** info from ppl like u who only played easy mode.

b:shutup

Your english fails miserably.

Anyway...

There are many differences between PvP and PvE venos.

I have played on both types of servers as a veno and try to take those differences in to consideration when I type on these forums, unlike some ppl.

Silvia_Xenth - Lost City · July 2010

yeah i knew my english is roten but i aint here with bullsht propaganda about vit this or vit that from a pve server veno who i bet wouldent talk so much sht if she knew how pvp server worked and even that little vit would help u especially if u aint rich.

also she or he says a veno is a DD omg i never heard of a more dumber way to say what a veno is cos veno aint a dd u can make it dd but its way more then dd and all mag well
that 2 would only kill halv ur venomacer tree.

see if u fallow this venomancer who is fail in my book u would purely play as human caster and still never out dd a wiz/archer/bm/psy and cleric so whats the point.

knew ur class is not same as pay ur class damn tweak noob quit so venomancer can get a better players without ur fail ways we dont need more fail venos out there

kenlee · July 2010

how can you survive w/o herc?

thats an easy question. completely forget about bh/fc/cs and get your xp by grinding. thats what people did before those things existed and yes lots of venos had about 50-60mil by lvl 7x

tweakz · July 2010

Silvia_Xenth - Lost City wrote: »

yeah i knew my english is roten but i aint here with bullsht propaganda about vit this or vit that from a pve server veno who i bet wouldent talk so much sht if she knew how pvp server worked and even that little vit would help u especially if u aint rich.

also she or he says a veno is a DD omg i never heard of a more dumber way to say what a veno is cos veno aint a dd u can make it dd but its way more then dd and all mag well
that 2 would only kill halv ur venomacer tree.

see if u fallow this venomancer who is fail in my book u would purely play as human caster and still never out dd a wiz/archer/bm/psy and cleric so whats the point.

knew ur class is not same as pay ur class damn tweak noob quit so venomancer can get a better players without ur fail ways we dont need more fail venos out there

You could just say you like **** instead of making a wall of text to explain it.;-)

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2010

kenlee wrote: »

how can you survive w/o herc?

thats an easy question. completely forget about bh/fc/cs and get your xp by grinding. thats what people did before those things existed and yes lots of venos had about 50-60mil by lvl 7x

Just a small correction. You don't need a hercules for BH quests. Every class needs BH so you will find a tank most of the time. So far I've done only two BH with a hercules tanking out of the hundreds I've done. There are a lot of people who seek lower lvl BHs (such as BH29, 39 and 51) and a lot of times high levels help in them (I do help random BH squads just because I feel like it). BH69 can't be tanked by a hercules except if they do only pyro or nob. Either way it's not hard to find a full squad for BHs. I'm not aware of BH89+ as I haven't been there yet but I assume having a hercules is not that necessary still.

FCC yes you won't be able to join any random squad but I'm sure good friends will bring you along especially if you're a good one. It's just that you won't be able to do runs frequently but I think BH, WQ and maybe CS can do the job too xD

tweakz · July 2010

Yep, you definitely need a Herc for WQ.

Quibie - Heavens Tear · July 2010

kenlee wrote: »

how can you survive w/o herc?

thats an easy question. completely forget about bh/fc/cs and get your xp by grinding. thats what people did before those things existed and yes lots of venos had about 50-60mil by lvl 7x

Umm do you realize how completely idiotic you sounds my friend? This game was created with different classes..each class has its own purpose and place in this game. Are you saying that a veno cannot do a bh/fc/cs without a herc..you have to be kidding me..you dont really believe that do you? Or has that big fat yellow thing you have made you so high to the sky that you dont believe that any veno without a herc can do them. Please..save me the bullsh*t and actually say something that makes sense..

Yulk - Heavens Tear · July 2010

tweakz wrote: »

Yep, you definitely need a Herc for WQ.

I thought you don't even do anything but travel and talk to NPCs for WQ

and I agree with silvia_xenith, if your pure magic and can't heal anything but your overpowered pet, then there is something really wrong with that. Tabby plumdrop isn't hard to keep alive. Sure pets may not tank as good as herc, but it can be done as pure VIT, LA or HA veno. You should of played a real caster class instead of a hybrid

Vixter - Harshlands · July 2010

tweakz wrote: »

Yep, you definitely need a Herc for WQ.

she was saying that you can do WQ, CS, BH INSTEAD of FC, because you dont need a herc for those ... lol.

XmasBunny_ - Archosaur · July 2010

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

@Tweakz; Commenting on what the rl of others must be like only reflects on yours. I may have been gone for some time but i remember your fail attitude. That after all this time you haven't learned to simply enjoy yourself and just pass along what you have learned points to your arrogance. Your "pure mag with herc is the only way to play" rant sickens me. Still promoting the Eldergoth as a must have? There are plenty of ways to play the game, how would an unherc'ed veno slow you down anyway if your level would make your herc the number one choice in any squad you were in? Does it die often on you? Are you a slow leveler? Is back up so necessary you will be held back by having an unherc'ed veno in your squad? You're telling me that if a veno shows up with a scorp that's got Claw, Howl and a couple of bashes you wouldn't consider his/her pet a good adition? If an herc was needed don't you have one already?

But i'm guessing uberpro endgame squads probably require several hercs AoE grinding at the same time... Give it up. I'll grant you hercs are the most effective pet available but that still won't make them attractive to some venos and some of us CHOOSE not to go through the trouble of getting one. If you have a problem with that simply boot any veno that squads with you the second you find out he/she didn't bring an herc, as i'm sure you already do. Worried about other players being misled and the reputation of venos being ruined? Then you're more than welcome to voice your opinions but keep it in respectful terms, this is a forum not a fish market.

There's nothing more disapointing than an herc'ed veno failing and i've seen this far more often than unherc'ed venos wiping squads. The animosity towards veno has mostly been fueled by herc's soloing ability and nixes abusing the ream bug so i would say there's room to debate who's ruining who's reputation. Some of us like being part of squads and not having starring roles in them which ultimately make it more boring for other players... Or do you think good DDs don't have to gimp their damage when an herc is tanking? Or would you rather have someone with uber gear walking you through an instance than have a go at it with same leveled/geared people? Really mate, give it a rest, forums are open to all and your flaming everyone that doesn't agree with you really got old a long time ago...

i

you! XD

honestly i wanna get an herc but i am lazzy... anyway i don't think hercless venos are useless cause we are DDs-debuffers/pullers, not tanks. it can be awesome to have an herc, yes, and it makes things a lot easier but even if i get an herc i will never refuse to squad with an unherced veno if she knows how to play her role (unless we rather/need other classes in squad for some reason of course

).
honestly this is a game and each person decides how to play it. if tweakz or some1 else doesn't want an hercless veno in squad, just don't invite them lol but don't bash on others just cause they see things in a different way, that's childish.

XmasBunny_ - Archosaur · July 2010

oh btw i forgot!! XD (kinda off-topic)

a few days ago, when i was lvl73 (didn't have lvl8 heal yet cause i am lazzy and as a consequence i am always out of coin XD) i got in a tt 1-2 squad with ppl i didn't know (wc makes wonders XD) and i had a noob moment so i got killed by dimentora (or whatever it's called) and decided to release cause i didn't want the cleric to probably die trying to res me. in a part of the dungeon that squad made a "run", leaving behind some meany mobs... that i had to face on my way back after releasing -.-'. it took a while cause my magmite was only lvl68 and all i had time to do was healing it (to make things worse i am la build so my heal kinda sucks compared with arcane venos), so mobs died REALLY SLOWLY -.-'... anyway i made it and got near the squad when they had just beaten the boss (i was like: HELL I MISSED THE FUN PART... and gave only a few contribute to the kill QQ).

THE POINT WHERE I WANNA GET IS: when the squad was spliting the drops (banked run) at the boss place, the cleric noticed i was there and she went like: "bunny i can't believe you made it" and the only thing i could think about was: jeeze i don't have an herc like the other veno in squad has, but that doesn't mean i am such a r3tard that i can't take elite mobs by myself XD... why ppl think only herc venos can solo stuff?

XmasBunny_ - Archosaur · July 2010

oh and btw u don't NEED herc for fc cause i was already asked by friends to go on their squads... just didn't went there with them cause i wasn't lvl75 yet -.-'

herc may turn it WAY EASIER, true. but it's not OBLIGATORY you know?

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Venos don't need to have herc to be useful. Herc is more of a luxury, and the skill of the veno is still more important.

As long as you amp the boss, pass sparks to barb/tank, ironwood debuff, bring out pet to DD and don't afk in any instance, I'll be happy. =D

Herc in FC is another matter though. Some venos are only comfortable tanking bosses with herc(to lessen the repair cost of barb, think of it as an added advantage), but hercless venoes are still good to have in fc. Some barbs do demand for a herc veno to tank fc though .__.

@xmasbunny Venoes are very good at rushing thru TTs. Maybe learn how to from other venos, you do not have to deal with every mobs in your way =D

Finra - Sanctuary · July 2010

I luckily got my herc 2 years ago before the economy went so fricken bizzar... (bought SoFs for 2-3k ea). I don't have a nix because I never thought about doing TWs, so i scrapped that idea.

IMO, I think sometimes quests and dungeons kind of evolve for the sake of classes and pet. For example some dungeons have mobs you'd need to have a veno to lure, if there weren't venos to lure then its kinda hard to work around that without risking a party wipe.

Most of the time just before I get invited to any kind of dungeon party, they'd always ask me "Do you have a herc?" I find that offensive to those that don't have it because its just not possible to get one with this kind of economy; unless you use real money to get it (still would cost alot.) It now takes around 60 mil for a herc or a nix, and that's a insane price.

It would be nice for other classes to be considerate with venos that don't have a herc and be nice to them, and not outcast them or call them failures because they don't have a herc. It's not a compulsory item you know. It's just better, but you can still tank bosses with good pets like armored bear; it only has a few points off a herc's pdef (comparing a lv 80 to a lvl 82) and its mag def is even better than a herc.

One of the barbs I worked with once said to me "Just coz you have a herc, you're not a god." Duh, of course I'm not a god. I'm just a versatile HA veno with a herc that's rather epic. I hope that no ones separates venos w/ herc and venos w/o herc because though reality is realistic and sad, they DO carry out their jobs.

Mind you; alot of higher level parties don't like venos without a herc because they already think a veno without a herc would fail a party. Maybe you should trial with one that doesn't use a herc but instead a armored bear. As said above, Hercs are luxuries, they aren't compulsory pets and Im sure that not every single veno likes having a golden **** following them and stepping on them all the fricken time. (I don't like using hercs)

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2010

Finra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Mind you; alot of higher level parties don't like venos without a herc because they already think a veno without a herc would fail a party. Maybe you should trial with one that doesn't use a herc but instead a armored bear.

I'm starting to think that this whole Venos with Herc VS Veno without Herc came from what you've mentioned "because they already think a veno without a herc would fail a party" so they probably think in this way "since venomancers are useless they could at least save us from some repairs and tank the bosses". The only thing they see in a venomancer nowadays is luring (which a lot of times is taken over but another class who has a zeal) and boss tanking.

Well, this leads to a different topic, to why and how venomancers stopped being useful. Not many of them truly know their role in a squad or what they really can do (some of them never even take a look at their fox tree skills b:surrender).

SeaStorm - Heavens Tear · July 2010

There are good and bad players in every char type; those that know how to play their char and those that don't or just don't give a damn and expect the rest of the squad to work around them. I've seen great BMs get refused to RB squads 'cause they don't have axe tree skills. I've seen an archer that told a cleric it was the cleric's fault they died on a BH when they knew that they could be 2 shot if they got agro but didn't bother to check their power…(specifically related to a BH79 where the archer was 97 +). I've had barbs tank in human form then get mad 'cause the BM stole agro…and I could go on….

Whether or not you have a herc or just use a glacial walker or a mags or shadou cub. The end result is if you know how to play your char and you can do it well and be an asset to a squad then there's no reason that you need to play with a specific type of pet. Actually minus the pet part that basically goes for any char.

Yes sometimes one can make life easier to do things in game but it's not a pure blood necessity to have it. Unfortunately, some people have gotten to the point where the veno/herc combo is a must and they don't realize the benefits of those that don't. Yes, I do have a herc however as another stated earlier I got it later in game spent 78-80 levels with my mags (still got him too).

Build your veno (or any other char) the way YOU want, the way you'll enjoy playing the game. I've got my own personal preference for how I built my veno. It's not exactly one of the "norms" it works for me. I know how to play my veno and play her well. I still get the occasionally odd ball of "you're sage??" but it's not as bad as when I first went sage.

Truly in a game like this there is no right way or wrong way to play. You can learn about differences from other players that play same char or have a similar play style adopt what works for you and trash what doesn't. The only way to play is the way that makes you happy. IF a squad thinks that you're fail 'cause you don't have a herc then they're not worth the time you'd spend squaded with them.

tweakz · July 2010

Finra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Most of the time just before I get invited to any kind of dungeon party, they'd always ask me "Do you have a herc?" I find that offensive to those that don't have it because its just not possible to get one with this kind of economy; unless you use real money to get it (still would cost alot.) It now takes around 60 mil for a herc or a nix, and that's a insane price.

I tend to get that every couple of weeks. It took me a lot longer to acquire a Herc when the SoF / PF was under 2k ea than I could now.

It would be nice for other classes to be considerate with venos that don't have a herc and be nice to them, and not outcast them or call them failures because they don't have a herc. It's not a compulsory item you know. It's just better, but you can still tank bosses with good pets like armored bear; it only has a few points off a herc's pdef (comparing a lv 80 to a lvl 82) and its mag def is even better than a herc.

If I were to use an Armored Bear to tank in say an FF run, it could make the difference between a ~35m run and a 45m run. If Barbs fell behind on their equips to where they couldn't tank bosses their level should we be nice to them? Should we let everyone who fails just mooch off the rest of us? I don't feel bad calling builds / those lacking fails because it's something they chose. Look at how many venos say "I'll never get a Herc". -It's a fail attitude.

MindCrime - Harshlands · July 2010

tweakz wrote: »

I tend to get that every couple of weeks. It took me a lot longer to acquire a Herc when the SoF / PF was under 2k ea than I could now.

If I were to use an Armored Bear to tank in say an FF run, it could make the difference between a ~35m run and a 45m run. If Barbs fell behind on their equips to where they couldn't tank bosses their level should we be nice to them? Should we let everyone who fails just mooch off the rest of us? I don't feel bad calling builds / those lacking fails because it's something they chose. Look at how many venos say "I'll never get a Herc". -It's a fail attitude.

Obviously you didn't play this game before hercs were in it.

Your 'fail attitude' regarding hercless venos would be non-existant.

Ps: ask Desiree about his Gundam sometime.

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2010

tweakz wrote: »

Look at how many venos say "I'll never get a Herc". -It's a fail attitude.

They might as well mean "because i don't want one" not just "i can't afford it".

In my case, I will never get a Herc...because yeah I don't want one. I like my cub b:pleased

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear · July 2010

when i say i'll likely never get a herc, i mean that i can't currently see any way to scrape together that sort of in-game coin while still having fun playing the game.

i don't play the game for to max out my character, or to get the best possible gear, or to do "better" than anybody else at this or that in-game task. fundamentally, i play the game to have fun. if, at some later point in my leveling, i find some way to earn a herc and enjoy the experience, i likely will. currently that seems unlikely to happen, though, so i usually state i probably won't.

tweakz · July 2010

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

when i say i'll likely never get a herc, i mean that i can't currently see any way to scrape together that sort of in-game coin while still having fun playing the game.

Very understandable. A little effort isn't bad if it makes the game funner (trade off). At your level, there's not a lot of ways to make in game coin unless you enjoy trading and keeping a close eye on the market. You'll see a drastic rise in income from just playing as you level higher, but I still recommend some vending even if it's just buying and selling sof/pf. -I *think it's worth the effort. Just don't be those venos that complain about not having fun earning a Herc, then do Crazy Stone and World Quest religiously. b:chuckle . Have fun!

kenlee · July 2010

Quibie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Umm do you realize how completely idiotic you sounds my friend? This game was created with different classes..each class has its own purpose and place in this game. Are you saying that a veno cannot do a bh/fc/cs without a herc..you have to be kidding me..you dont really believe that do you? Or has that big fat yellow thing you have made you so high to the sky that you dont believe that any veno without a herc can do them. Please..save me the bullsh*t and actually say something that makes sense..

you are complete stupid, where the **** did i said a veno cannot do bh/fc w/o herc??? i said to forget about bh/fc/whatever and take your time to grind. thats what people that started almost 2 years ago did. there was no bh/fc/hypers implemented and all you had to do to lvl is to kill plenty of mobs in the open world. thats what gave me the coins to buy my herc by lvl 7x.

Zoe - Heavens Tear · July 2010

kenlee wrote: »

you are complete stupid, where the **** did i said a veno cannot do bh/fc w/o herc??? i said to forget about bh/fc/whatever and take your time to grind. thats what people that started almost 2 years ago did. there was no bh/fc/hypers implemented and all you had to do to lvl is to kill plenty of mobs in the open world. thats what gave me the coins to buy my herc by lvl 7x.

Grind, grind, grind. It's how I got my hercules at level 75, the level I was when they came out.b:bye

Silest - Sanctuary · July 2010

3million for 300 SoF each.

I'm gonna be saving towards it. Might take me a few months.

Cookie_Doe - Heavens Tear · July 2010

kenlee wrote: »

how can you survive w/o herc?

thats an easy question. completely forget about bh/fc/cs and get your xp by grinding. thats what people did before those things existed and yes lots of venos had about 50-60mil by lvl 7x

... wrong account -ignore this post lol-

Quibie - Heavens Tear · July 2010

kenlee wrote: »

how can you survive w/o herc?

thats an easy question. completely forget about bh/fc/cs and get your xp by grinding. thats what people did before those things existed and yes lots of venos had about 50-60mil by lvl 7x

well...what do you expect me to think when you say thisb:chuckle

"how can you survive w/o herc?

thats an easy question. completely forget about bh/fc/cs and get your xp by grinding."

sorry if i misunderstood but you forgot to add the part saying by lvl70 you can have 50-60 mil b:surrender, then again maybe i should have connected the dots..my bad

Yulk - Heavens Tear · July 2010

tweakz wrote: »

If Barbs fell behind on their equips to where they couldn't tank bosses their level should we be nice to them? Should we let everyone who fails just mooch off the rest of us? I don't feel bad calling builds / those lacking fails because it's something they chose. Look at how many venos say "I'll never get a Herc". -It's a fail attitude.

Look at what your saying tweakz, this is coming from real life money or LONG time playing. Armored bear can be even tougher in an area than herc if you know how to build one. But if people are getting rare pet skills, should be not that tough to get a herc. Even hercs need boosting up on their skills. A veno should know how to manage skills for herself and her pet. Its like your calling a pet that is raised from level 11 fail. It have nothing to do with what pet you have or what build you have, its about managing your skills, like every class.

Barbs wouldn't be able to tank if they just fell behind on their equips, thats true. But any class won't perform well without updated armor and weapons.

Your build fails tweakz, you should of rolled a wizard, cleric or psychic. Wasted too much on stats on magic that can easily be out DPSed by heavy fox venoes. Making yourself reliant on a legendary pet. Who have the fail attitude really? Stop being ignorant

Mercinary - Heavens Tear · July 2010

When I squad with veno's I only ask the veno if they have a herc if we don't have a tank. I don't dare squad with only a herc'd veno and no cleric because the herc's agro holding abilities diminish the higher level everyone is.

If the veno says no I don't have a herc I just shrug my shoulders and wait for a barb, I don't kick them out calling them fail.

A Herc cannot replace a Barb ever. It can substitute a barb in certain cases such as a BM can, a well geared Sin or archer can, or even some heavily geared arcanes.

I would love to see a Herc tank Polearm when he's at his worst.

I would love to see a Herc pull mobs to BB in BH89 Eden or Brim and hold agro on all of them as the group zhens.

Veno's can solo many things thanks to a Herc but if you look at it in the way I view a Herc, a Herc is just like a Lunar Glade weapon/cape/Love up and Down.

You don't need it to survive, you still can fufil your NATURAL duty just fine. Its just you won't be able to go over that limit as easily without it. Anyone that expects a Veno now must have this 'equipment' or be fail is a moron themselves.

How to survive this game without a Herc

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