bring back 2x

Hhlolz - Harshlands · June 2010

Yeah pretty ****, 2x drop ended when my summer holiday started b:cry
saving all nirvana keys for next 2x drop =D

Kilala - Lost City · June 2010

yea see i live near the server and school is almost out at this time of month.so be best to have another 2x.Why have it May when people are finishing up school.So thats why i asked for 2x to come back.Cuz people going to have time to play.b:thanks

Kitamura - Lost City · June 2010

Kilala - Lost City wrote: »

yea see i live near the server and school is almost out at this time of month.so be best to have another 2x.Why have it May when people are finishing up school.So thats why i asked for 2x to come back.Cuz people going to have time to play.b:thanks

no more 2x, it sucks

lets ask for 5x drops/XP, looks better

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

which 3-3 green mat was ever 500k? just cause someone try to sell it at that much doesn't mean thats the real price.

3-3

gecko horns were 500-700k

minister whips 300-700k, not steable since it was about demand

sleeping guy auras 1-2m

illusion springs 2m+

hearts were like 100-200

rest was garbage

those were 'real' prices since i was actually earning money on farming 3-2, 3-3 on my low 90's

Asheera - Raging Tide · June 2010

lol ok I'll bump in here to tell you how 2x actually works. At least for TT from my experiences.

There's no such thing as "increased chance for a good item to drop"... if you look at one mob's drop rate all its drop percents add up to 100%... if you think 2x increases drop chance for molds for example, why would it pick molds instead of pots or other ****? Just because you find the molds worthy? Makes no sense and also would require HUGE coding to only improve certain items on drops.

You people should stop thinking that a mob has "1% chance to drop mold, 2% for a pot, 3% for leather" etc. A normal mob will never, ever, drop more than 3 items. With your usual basic thinking, if you're lucky enough a mob can drop all its items it can to you in one death? That's not possible. It works differently.

A mob can drop from 0 (nothing or only coins) to 3 items. After the generated amount of items are dropped, it goes on a percentage-test on each to see what those items are... now the low chance for molds apply which is why you see them rarely dropping and most of time you see dq's etc. There's no such thing as doubling the chances for a mold to drop, 2x makes a mob drop twice as many items as before, then the percentage-tests are made on each to see what those items are.

Let's take Drummer in 1-3 as example:

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/14737

Look at these properties:

How many times server count drop rate ?
2

Drop rate of severals items
0: 0.0000%
1: 0.0000%
2: 0.0000%
3: 100.0000%

That means drummer ALWAYS drops 6 items. Now look at his drop table and check Default Drop Rate.

A 33.33% on each of those drops test is done to see if it's a war drum. Same with Klunky swords. So technically u can get from 0 drums to 6 in a run, but when 6 drums drop nothing else does.

2x drops will only increase the "How many times server count drop rate" variable to 4 (double) which means drummer drops 12 items, making drum drops possible from 0 (VERY unlucky) to 12 (EXTREMELY lucky)

The "Real Drop rate" was put there only for your convenience to see on average what's the chance to get AT LEAST one of that items drop for a specified mob.

shootingstarvn · June 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

2x hurts the ability of casual farmers to earn some coin. It doesn't hurt the regular farmers. In the last 3 days of 2x, I made 80m coin because I farmed the hell out of 3-3. I would have been stupid not to. Since 2x has gone? I've made about 15m in the week since it ended. Put it back on and I'll be rolling in coin again. Who won't be? Everyone else who can't farm like mad.

Flooding the market with mats doesn't make things better for you. It increases the value of gold indirectly for those that would sell a few extra mats from a run that nobody needed. Giant Beast Armor used to sell for about 1m coin. That used to be 3 gold. Now it's at about 400k and barely worth 1 gold. Dust of Stars used to sell for 800k, which was 2 gold, now it barely sells for 250k. Two of them for 1 gold. So you do a run or two a week with a couple of friends, each of you get to split what drops, and what do you get? Nothing, anymore. You don't get half the value that it used to be.... 2x drops ruins the opportunity for people who don't religiously farm to earn money.

How long would it take you to grind 20m? During 2x, I average 20-25m per day.

When I was 8x my income came from running 2-2 and 3-1. Now you can't earn anything after expenses. I'm glad I did that before double drops, because I would never have been able to afford my 90 gold axes or the refines and shards on my 90 armor.

Oh well, to each their own. I do want 2x drops to come back, but I won't lie and say it's good for the game economy. I just know that I want to +11 my claws and +7 the rest of my gear. It's not gonna happen until another 2x... so lets have it come quickly.

next time i make a pic when a mob drops like 5-6 items for u

Borsuc - Raging Tide · June 2010

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

lol ok I'll bump in here to tell you how 2x actually works. At least for TT from my experiences.

Well that's certainly the way I thought it worked (and is only logical, it's called double drops not double chances), but I couldn't be bothered to make such a descriptive post on that, wasted too much time on this thread already. :P

Maybe we should have an informative thread explaining how this works because I've even seen people saying "2x drops is over, the mob only dropped 1 item, I thought they have to drop 2 items" over and over again. Should make it sticky too.

I mean, double drops... kill the same mob twice, and what do you get? That's the answer.

NiightmareXz - Harshlands · June 2010

I'm too lazy to read any of the replies and am unsure if there was some flaming. (After scanning down through them, I think I noticed a little bit on the first page, but I am too tired to read it).

I would love another 2x Event; during the last one I was working my **** off trying to get finals in and stuff so I could graduate with my class x__x; And when I /did/ get to do some TT runs I got like jack... **** >__>; I'm talking Evil Minion's Horns, Claw of Consumer of Souls, Mysterious Skulls... all the good stuff I got was stuff I needed for my armour so I got maybe 300k coins out of it. Bleh.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · June 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Again, who's greedy here?

You are. You seem to think the game is too difficult as it is. It's already been made easy, and you want it even easier. That's greedy.

Most of the people who don't agree with your flawed logic (which is being used to bolster your flawed argument which is obvious that most people disagree with) don't want this game to get any easier.

I'm right, this sums you up perfectly:

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Minimum wage is good because you would be ripping people off if you were paid more, slave labor in sweatshops brings down prices to make it so everyone can have something without being ripped off. You can't make money off selling those items made by slave labor to people making minimum wage because you would be ripping them both off. I want the government to give me more money because I do not make enough.

Santacruz - Heavens Tear · June 2010

Stop crying about this ****... god

i know humanity is slowly getting stupider but you lot just speed it up

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

Borsuc - Raging Tide · June 2010

Michael, you can play this game without BHs or without the "easy stuff" if you so want. You are greedy or selfish because you don't want others to play it their style (i.e easier). Not everyone has the same time commitment to this game as you do. You said so yourself this will be your last MMO because it's too time-consuming... why are you encouraging that?

And heh, I suppose them creeps don't deserve teh TT gear am I rite?

D.Orbs are something cash-shop based so I wouldn't dare going there to suggest making it "easier" (or god-forbid, cheaper!) as I know that is... not realistic for PWE...

Asperitas - Lost City · June 2010

I don't understand Borsuc.

An RPG is largely based on dedication, commitment and investment, be it time or cash. If you are unable to make any of these investments, time or cash, why should you expect to reap the same rewards?

Are you not being greedy, by wanting to spend less time than us, but at the same time keeping up to par?

If you ask me, you're right. I don't want those people who don't spend the time to farm TT to get their gear. The same logic behind why I don't want someone who's half assed in a group project to get a higher mark than me.

It isn't fair.

You are also right about one other thing. Different people have different commitments to a game. You are greedy by wanting everyone to conform to your style of easy gaming. In my opinion, it ruins any sense of achievement from obtaining any milestone in the game. The same way running 10 seconds in a 100m dash is not an achievement anymore, neither is hitting level 90, or anything else in the game for that matter. Once everyone is able to accomplish something, it's not special anymore.

And again, reiterating. You want it easy, play a private server. That's specially made for people who you claim, don't have the time to spend on a game.

azukaya · June 2010

I am a lv50 wizard and I want the 2x drop back. When there was 2x drops, grinding worth the time. I could pay reparations , powders, pots and remained a good profit. In that time I could buy a mount and very good equip. Now the profit I get for grinding is much less than the half the profit I got before because the price of reparations, pots and powders are the same. Now I am passing from wealth to poverty. Now I have to think twice before doing a dungeon for example because it consumes more money than it makes, and before helping people with bosses and difficult quests because in that cases I use powders and they became less and less affordable for me.
And now, I dont know who can pay 400k for gold. I lv50 definitely not.

azukaya · June 2010

And the experience has showed us that the inflation isnt too much high with the 2x drop rate, too much less than 200%. And other prices are fix. And in the case of mats, they arent sold to the half price neither but more, and the number of sells are increased a lot in these periods if the sell prices are good (I sold a lot of leather in that time). So what we got with the 2x drop rate is a more wealthy world.
Dont you want to live in a more wealthy Perfect World, where the big part of the people can afford good things?

Amencat - Sanctuary · June 2010

i personaly only wait for the 2x to come back, couse the TT drops are really unbelievable view and the game is more fun when you get something for your kill... without 2x the game is annoying, you do hours for hours to finish a TT run and end up with 2 drops... you farm 5 hours for some damn 20 rough fur or hay,... and the prices and the economy on the servers are insane.. without the 2x its all **** b:cry

Borsuc - Raging Tide · June 2010

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

I don't understand Borsuc.

An RPG is largely based on dedication, commitment and investment, be it time or cash. If you are unable to make any of these investments, time or cash, why should you expect to reap the same rewards?

Are you not being greedy, by wanting to spend less time than us, but at the same time keeping up to par?

If you ask me, you're right. I don't want those people who don't spend the time to farm TT to get their gear. The same logic behind why I don't want someone who's half assed in a group project to get a higher mark than me.

It isn't fair.

You are also right about one other thing. Different people have different commitments to a game. You are greedy by wanting everyone to conform to your style of easy gaming. In my opinion, it ruins any sense of achievement from obtaining any milestone in the game. The same way running 10 seconds in a 100m dash is not an achievement anymore, neither is hitting level 90, or anything else in the game for that matter. Once everyone is able to accomplish something, it's not special anymore.

And again, reiterating. You want it easy, play a private server. That's specially made for people who you claim, don't have the time to spend on a game.

This whole concept to work "hard" (by hard I mean a lot) is why most MMOs need to open new servers and the problem of "old servers" comes up. (or some people call it "the aging of servers"). It's not just that the population exceeds, it's that some people simply cannot ever catch up. If you start up in a server where there are lvl100 people, for example, and it takes you like what, 5 years (EXAMPLE!) to reach that level because this example game is "hard"... that's what I call, an old server with barely new people interested. (if they know in advance of course). They would probably quit in a month at best.

Why do you think many players reroll on new servers? This is one of the biggest problems that's causing that. They want to "start fresh". Think about it. If the game required only 24-50 hours of gameplay to reach the level cap, would people still want to "start fresh"? Of course not. That's a game that doesn't have the aging of servers problem.

Even if someone had a lot of time to dedicate, for example, simply having a head start is enough if they can never catch up. That's not even the problem. The problem is that, to "fully" experience this game you need a LOT of time. If you are someone who was an "early bird" that may seem more plausible, but not everyone has either money (cash shop) or that early bird advantage.

I have no problem with achievements, like say, rankings (server-wide) or reputation or whatever system... as long as they don't influence gameplay or fights. (they can influence other stuff). One example is the "TW teleport" if your faction owns a land -- that's not change of combat gameplay.

One example of a more "casual" MMO is the one that is pay-to-play but no subscription, I can't name it here but I think you know what it is. I mean, even people in FPS games where there is no "gear" or stuff to work for, even those feel achievements in skill when they play. They don't have a GAME ADVANTAGE, but rather their experience advantage. I've no problem with that. I do have, though, when a game is so hard that to fully experience it you need like several years of hard-core playing (i.e 8 hours per day). (of course without cash shopping)

Make your own achievements, play the hard way if you want... but don't force everyone that way because it's one of the inherent problems of some MMORPGs, to set limits so absurdly high that it takes years to achieve the "cap" (gear and level wise). And of course, make more content once you reach that cap.

and I'm not even talking PvP... there, let's just say, the-other-MMO-I-mentioned has that PvP starter kit where you can start PvPing with a max level char and gear if you so choose. Not to mention it's easy to get to the level cap, a few days maybe. Not fun for me, but a good choice if you want to PvP and don't want to spend years to get there.

I mean seriously, this is one of the top 3 complaints people put in reviews against "MMORPGs" or comics or whatever. The other is grinding and cash sucking (whether cash shop or subscription).

azukaya wrote: »

Dont you want to live in a more wealthy Perfect World, where the big part of the people can afford good things?

A lot of people, usually high leveled, don't. They are like the grandpas of a real world telling kids "in my time we didn't have computers and life was harder". b:chuckle

Considering this is a game I find this pretty amusing.

Asperitas - Lost City · June 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

This whole concept to work "hard" (by hard I mean a lot) is why most MMOs need to open new servers and the problem of "old servers" comes up. (or some people call it "the aging of servers"). It's not just that the population exceeds, it's that some people simply cannot ever catch up. If you start up in a server where there are lvl100 people, for example, and it takes you like what, 5 years (EXAMPLE!) to reach that level because this example game is "hard"... that's what I call, an old server with barely new people interested. (if they know in advance of course). They would probably quit in a month at best.

Why do you think many players reroll on new servers? This is one of the biggest problems that's causing that. They want to "start fresh". Think about it. If the game required only 24-50 hours of gameplay to reach the level cap, would people still want to "start fresh"? Of course not. That's a game that doesn't have the aging of servers problem.

Even if someone had a lot of time to dedicate, for example, simply having a head start is enough if they can never catch up. That's not even the problem. The problem is that, to "fully" experience this game you need a LOT of time. If you are someone who was an "early bird" that may seem more plausible, but not everyone has either money (cash shop) or that early bird advantage.

I have no problem with achievements, like say, rankings (server-wide) or reputation or whatever system... as long as they don't influence gameplay or fights. (they can influence other stuff). One example is the "TW teleport" if your faction owns a land -- that's not change of combat gameplay.

One example of a more "casual" MMO is the one that is pay-to-play but no subscription, I can't name it here but I think you know what it is. I mean, even people in FPS games where there is no "gear" or stuff to work for, even those feel achievements in skill when they play. They don't have a GAME ADVANTAGE, but rather their experience advantage. I've no problem with that. I do have, though, when a game is so hard that to fully experience it you need like several years of hard-core playing (i.e 8 hours per day). (of course without cash shopping)

Make your own achievements, play the hard way if you want... but don't force everyone that way because it's one of the inherent problems of some MMORPGs, to set limits so absurdly high that it takes years to achieve the "cap" (gear and level wise). And of course, make more content once you reach that cap.

and I'm not even talking PvP... there, let's just say, the-other-MMO-I-mentioned has that PvP starter kit where you can start PvPing with a max level char and gear if you so choose. Not to mention it's easy to get to the level cap, a few days maybe. Not fun for me, but a good choice if you want to PvP and don't want to spend years to get there.

I mean seriously, this is one of the top 3 complaints people put in reviews against "MMORPGs" or comics or whatever. The other is grinding and cash sucking (whether cash shop or subscription).

A lot of people, usually high leveled, don't. They are like the grandpas of a real world telling kids "in my time we didn't have computers and life was harder". b:chuckle

Considering this is a game I find this pretty amusing.

A successful game has a healthy division of players at every stage of levels, lowbie, middle, and high levels. You don't obtain a successful game with everyone reaching endgame within a week. That's a failure of a game. People come in for a week, reach competitive levels, then quit within the month because they're bored.

One of the biggest reasons why people leave isn't because a game is challenging or requires time. It's because they're bored. Bored because there's nothing to do when you hit 100. Bored because there's nothing to do after you collect your gears. Bored because there's nothing left to do but kill people and do TW. Once you hit "endgame", it is exactly that. The end.

By shortening the journey it takes to reach endgame, not only are you making it unfair for the people who have dedicated their time in the first place to reach that pedestal, but you are also shortening the lifespan of the game.

If you call an advantage in FPS "experience advantage", where skills are honed through experiences through time, then the same thing can be applied to an MMO.

There is barely any skill involved in PWI. That is widely known fact. Massive cash shop almost always > skill. Now bearing that in mind, relate this back to your RPG example.

Where one would gain skill through time, one would gain gears and levels through time here. There is no difference.

And if an achievement in an FPS is to headshot 9/10 people and note, because you spent time and effort to learn to aim, then your achievement in relation to MMO's should be good gear and levels earned through time and effort.

I don't see why people need freebies here just because they can't compete with top factions and levels in a short amount of time.

All in all, my opinion stems from this point:

You shouldn't get something from nothing. If you don't invest the time and effort into something, you should not get the same results.

Putting it into real life context:

How would you feel if you worked 2 jobs and 60 hours a week to feed your family while people who can't be assed to seek work just sit and take welfare?

Borsuc - Raging Tide · June 2010

I agree on some points but not on others. I'll keep it brief. As for the FPS example, what I meant was that, when you get your skills there, you have them. It's not something that you need a lot of time for when you "reroll" for instance. (a different game maybe? similar in style ofc... or a different server)

For example, in this one you need an absurd amount of time to get you back to lvl100 if you reroll. It's not a problem if you can reach it faster, in a reasonable time-frame like say a few months... but to get to "endgame" in years is just downright absurd (or massive amounts of cash of course... as we all know in free-to-play games).

Hence why a lot of people reroll on new servers when they get out. Why do they do so? To have that early bird advantage. If the game did not have a cash shop, only the most hardcore (and botters) would do so. But since it has a cash shop we all know how fast they rush to lvl on a new server. (note I do not support cash-shopping this way at all btw, just stating facts)

If you think about it, if people didn't care about this early bird advantage and "starting fresh", why would they waste so much money and/or time AGAIN to reroll? Why don't they just continue on the older server with their character? It's simple.

I call a MMO successful if it does not have the 3 main problems: aging of servers (aka "starting fresh" is an obsolete idea), insane grinding, and pay-to-win. Coincidentally the 3 most-often mentioned problems in blogs or whatever where you see "why MMOs suck" or something like that.

The reason behind it is obvious.

EDIT: as for "nothing to do at endgame", like I said, they need to add achievements and fun events that do not empower you but do give you bonuses, such as recognition, or anything creative like TW lands (of course that's not really that fun) and whatever. You don't "win" anything usually in FPS matches, not a uber gun or anything, yet there are still achievements usually by community. This can be added into the core game of course.

But not gear or level... not stuff that makes you overpowered compared to the rest. In fact, it should add things that a proper cash shop should contain in the first place -- i.e non-altering-gameplay stuff. That means no charms or dragon orbs or whatever.

Asperitas - Lost City · June 2010

I'll just say this. The speed of progress in a game is debatable and is by preference. Clearly, you like easy, fast, casual games that don't need time and effort devotion. And obviously, I'm the type that enjoys paying tributes of blood and tears to hit endgame.

All I'm saying is, if I paid an arm and a leg to hit a certain level, you damn better not be able to hit the same level without putting in the equivalent amount of time and work.

That, is the point I'm trying to make.

Last thing. PWI doesn't have insane grinding. Look around, nobody grinds anymore. It doesn't take a few years to hit endgame anymore. Nor did it ever. Any easier, and it's an "official" private server.

Borsuc - Raging Tide · June 2010

Yup I agree that many changes were made. That is my point. And more changes along that line would be good. Some people complain about BHs making leveling easy when they had to grind. Thing is, it's just an option for other people -- you don't have to use it. If you want to have long-term achievements then you can grind your levels. The problem is that the only "changes" that were done were made for exp, mainly. Not coins. Instead that gets NERFED. (DQ price nerf for instance)

I actually enjoyed a few hours of grinding per day but with the last DQ nerf and getting higher and higher level (and thus **** drop rates), nowadays I find the drops from grinding really not worth it anymore.

YordaUjain - Dreamweaver · June 2010

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

No....just no...

I am not saying it is not beneficial to some but the reliance on it is ridiculous to me.

Your HH/farming habits should not change all that much if you are serious about getting gear and/or income.

Is the game not easy enough now-a-days? Or do they now need to literally hand people gear and items and income? b:surrender

Besides, it only takes a run or two anyways and some patience. Some of us do work full-time jobs and have family lives to attend too, but it is still possible to get things done...

wtf. Why does everyone keep pulling the "game is easy enough already" speech when this is suggested. Ok review.

the highest i've seen (at this current drop rate) of getting a tt gold mat is pretty freaking stupid. It goes as low as 0.05%! Your telling me that's "easy"?. The highest i've seen is like 3% even that is pretty freaking low. Not like your going to get the mat on your first 10 runs, also bare in mind how long it actually takes to do a full run.

Here is another example. I was grinding on 80 mobs last night. 80 MOBS, I came out with about 5 dq items and 1 3 star item. Bad luck? Next day 70 mobs, 10dq items, a few pots and actually that's about it.

"Easy" isn't really a word I'd use. Try farming for warsoul weapon, try getting rank vii, try farming for tt gold. It's not "easy" you can not throw away the fact that the drop rates are awfully terrible, it's fact. You tell me less then 1% is acceptable, bare in mind you probably won't get the mat until a lot of runs I can almost guarantee you will not do it in your first run.

The only thing "easy" in this game is leveling up, yes but do not compare that to drop rates please it's another issue all together, bottom line drop rates are terrible. Double drop rate would be nice but maybe going slightly too far, a slight increase in drop rate would be better and not actually impale the balance of the game in any way. Grinding on 80 mobs for a handful of dq items is horrible, bare in mind you hardly get any XP from grinding anyway which makes it pretty worthless unless your questing, but even then 80+ quests become terrible xp wise, 10k xp for a quest 80+? No, I don't think so.

Coin is a hard thing to earn. If you don't believe me on that ask everyone in world chat how much coin they have. I've seen level 90+ with 100k and less, and worse not to mention the fact all my friends and half my faction joking about the fact they hardly have any coin.

I do think drop rates should be improved even more so for dq items which will help make grinding less painful.

Reshanta - Sanctuary · June 2010

Countering this suggestion; Bring them forth sparingly. When too annual it becomes a drug and is counter productive to the growth of the community.

Asperitas - Lost City · June 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yup I agree that many changes were made. That is my point. And more changes along that line would be good. Some people complain about BHs making leveling easy when they had to grind. Thing is, it's just an option for other people -- you don't have to use it. If you want to have long-term achievements then you can grind your levels. The problem is that the only "changes" that were done were made for exp, mainly. Not coins. Instead that gets NERFED. (DQ price nerf for instance)

I actually enjoyed a few hours of grinding per day but with the last DQ nerf and getting higher and higher level (and thus **** drop rates), nowadays I find the drops from grinding really not worth it anymore.

You're not getting my point at all.

Consider this example:

Let us assume we can quantify value. What generates value? Scarcity and personal preferences among some things.

Now before all the BH, MQ, hyper frost jazz, level 100 had lots of "value" to it.

1. It was scarce
2. It made you stronger than other people

This justified me spending 8 hours a day 7 days a week to grind out the exp needed to hit that level.

The main reason being, the value of the outcome justified the value of my inputs.

Now, you're introducing hyper frost, triple BH, MQ, and then frequent 2x.

The value of my outcome is now greatly diminished.

Level 100 is:

1. Not scarce
2. You're not stronger than them now, they're level 100 too.

Normally this wouldn't be a problem if everybody spent as much effort as you did. But according to the distributive justice theory:

My inputs / My outputs = Comparative inputs / Comparative outputs

Comparatively speaking, your inputs were much lower than mine, and still you managed to receive the same outcome. This equality is imbalanced, and therefore, the sense of distributive justice is violated here, which further enrages some people more.

I trained day and night to run a 9 second 100m dash, but you beat my performance by taking enhancement drugs. How is that fair?

@YordaUjain

After double drops, I ran 2-2 perhaps 4 times, and out of them I got a Touch of Seven Luminaries and a Feng's Steel Armor. It doesn't seem all that bad to me.

I also ran 1-3, and got 4 war drums.

Granted this is probably harder as you hit 99, but isn't that the point? That not everybody runs around in full 99 gear?

I don't consider myself rich. But I have enough to get by from doing nothing but checking AH couple times a day. I mean, 40m won't get you anything amazing these days, but I think it's rather sufficient for an average player.

bring back 2x

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