bring back 2x

Longknife - Harshlands

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Its funny how some of the same people who complain of bhs being overpowered say to bring x2 back.

X2 exp / spirit / drops is bad for the next reasons:

- People expect to make more coins by doing TT, the more mats you get from "grinding" the less value they will have on the market.

- People rely on x2 to get geared, this is a bad habit, the game is easy enough.

- X2 is nice for 1-2 days, but 1-2 weeks? thats a lot, and affects the ecomony way too much than what it really helps.

- Some people say to bring x2 once a month, sure, lets do it for 3-5 hours a month? that will not affect much the economy and people will have enough time to enjoy a FF run with hypers which would give about 500% more experience...

- Gold prices go insanely higher during X2 due to the demand on hyper stones. (saying 50-150k higher... gold was about 350k before x2 and now its @ 430k on sale... yes have to count the new fashion, the events, the sales.)

- It is way harder to find something "fun" to do, and I mean things like hide and seek with faction, etc. they're all just busy leveling and getting themselves geared.





Pros of x2?, sure I have few...

- Gets people leveled faster (which is bad on the long run...)

- Gets people geared faster

- Everything goes cheaper / undercut

- Its easier to get skills leveled up due x2 coins and spirit

- People get "rich" (even though the coins while x2 is active are worth less)

b:bye

Conclusion:
Don't bring x2 for more than 12 hours... / month.

Exactly.




Double EXP in Perfect World is just like lower taxes in real life: everybody wants it, but no one seems aware of or willing to face the consequences of receiving that benefit.

Reshanta - Sanctuary

Consequence: YOU WANT MORE OF IT.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yea because the prices for HH mats other than 99 golds aren't low enough already, let's lower them even more.

That would be awesome you know. Cheaper gear for me. Stop being so one-sided like it's an absolute bad thing. Sucks for you, awesome for me. b:bye

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

That would be awesome you know. Cheaper gear for me. Stop being so one-sided like it's an absolute bad thing. Sucks for you, awesome for me. b:bye

You only benefit from 2x drops in the long run if you make money by:

-grinding
-mat/herb farming
-merchanting things that don't drop from mobs

Of course you can make huge amounts of money by TTing, but if you continue that after the 2x event, your profits go down.

RedsRose - Lost City

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Of course you can make huge amounts of money by TTing, but if you continue that after the 2x event, your profits go down.

I bed to differ b:cute

yashino

b:laugh when 2x comes people start qqing cuz it'll affect gold mats prices, but once 2x gone, the same people want more.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

I bed to differ b:cute

Why? Isn't it obvious that when the TT mat prices go down, you will lose money when the drops are normal but prices are lower? Unless I didn't get your sarcasm.

Fiendishkit - Heavens Tear

Isnt the game easy enough :O?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

- It is way harder to find something "fun" to do, and I mean things like hide and seek with faction, etc.

That made me laugh pretty hard... sorry to sound like a PvP snob, but.... only on a PvE server... LOL!

I do agree with pretty much everything you've said though.

I made enough farming 3-3 in 2 1/2 days to pay back an 80m coin loan which helped me buy my interval tome which helps me farm more quickly and efficiently.

I love 3-3 on 2x drops. The next one will farm enough coin for me to make a 11 star orb for my claws and maybe enough tishas and mirages to bring all my gear up to +7.

That being said, I'm against the 2x events... sure the suggestion for maybe 1 day a month would be fine, but for several weeks at a time, it just destroys any opportunity for the mid-levels to make any decent coin except for higher gold prices so they can cash in. PWI wins and they make the customer feel like they're winning as well. Irony at it's best.

I am not so greedy that I would prefer to increase my profits greatly at the cost of further ruining the in-game economy.

RedsRose - Lost City

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why? Isn't it obvious that when the TT mat prices go down, you will lose money when the drops are normal but prices are lower? Unless I didn't get your sarcasm.

My income has not changed more so since prices are going up b:surrender

Fiendishkit - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Isnt the game easy enough :O?

^ This

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

That would be awesome you know. Cheaper gear for me. Stop being so one-sided like it's an absolute bad thing. Sucks for you, awesome for me. b:bye

Ok, you get the gear cheaper, awesome for you.


Now what?


You want to refine it of course, that's gonna cost money, don't even think about running TT for money to refine it until you get high enough to do 3-3/3-2, but you cant use unrefined gear up until then, so you have to make money somehow. And not many people will want to take a mage with terribad gear to 3-3/3-2.

Then come the shards of course. If you want to go the lower path you can fill your gear with flawless shards, with tokens at around 13k on raging tide thats 14 x 13000 per shard. That's just under 200k per shard, so if you get an average of 3 sockets per peice thats 600k per peice. With wrists, boots, legs, and chest your looking at 2.4mil to shard with flawless alone, which really isn't that much. Now if you want to go a bit better and use immaculates well.... multiply that by about 4 and you got the cost of sharding your gear with immaculates.

Then there is refines, in my experience with mirages being practically free with NQ I used around 2 tienkang stones per peice getting my gear to +4, maybe that's just cause my luck sucks though.




Getting the gear is cheap, it's the refines and shards that are expensive.


Of course that covers the TT90 gear and the weapon but that's not all your gear. Want to be able to keep up with everyone else on raging tide? get a warsoul helm at least, because except for the few with the helm of holy punishment helms, everyone 90+ has one. Getting the helm will set you back a good 15mil if you're patient AND lucky, otherwise look to spend around 20mil.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ok, you get the gear cheaper, awesome for you.


Now what?


You want to refine it of course, that's gonna cost money, don't even think about running TT for money to refine it until you get high enough to do 3-3/3-2, but you cant use unrefined gear up until then, so you have to make money somehow. And not many people will want to take a mage with terribad gear to 3-3/3-2.

Then come the shards of course. If you want to go the lower path you can fill your gear with flawless shards, with tokens at around 13k on raging tide thats 14 x 13000 per shard. That's just under 200k per shard, so if you get an average of 3 sockets per peice thats 600k per peice. With wrists, boots, legs, and chest your looking at 2.4mil to shard with flawless alone, which really isn't that much. Now if you want to go a bit better and use immaculates well.... multiply that by about 4 and you got the cost of sharding your gear with immaculates.

Then there is refines, in my experience with mirages being practically free with NQ I used around 2 tienkang stones per peice getting my gear to +4, maybe that's just cause my luck sucks though.




Getting the gear is cheap, it's the refines and shards that are expensive.


Of course that covers the TT90 gear and the weapon but that's not all your gear. Want to be able to keep up with everyone else on raging tide? get a warsoul helm at least, because except for the few with the helm of holy punishment helms, everyone 90+ has one. Getting the helm will set you back a good 15mil if you're patient AND lucky, otherwise look to spend around 20mil.

TT90 gear and weapon, +1 with average shards. Nuff said.

yashino

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ok, you get the gear cheaper, awesome for you.


Now what?


You want to refine it of course, that's gonna cost money, don't even think about running TT for money to refine it until you get high enough to do 3-3/3-2, but you cant use unrefined gear up until then, so you have to make money somehow. And not many people will want to take a mage with terribad gear to 3-3/3-2.

Then come the shards of course. If you want to go the lower path you can fill your gear with flawless shards, with tokens at around 13k on raging tide thats 14 x 13000 per shard. That's just under 200k per shard, so if you get an average of 3 sockets per peice thats 600k per peice. With wrists, boots, legs, and chest your looking at 2.4mil to shard with flawless alone, which really isn't that much. Now if you want to go a bit better and use immaculates well.... multiply that by about 4 and you got the cost of sharding your gear with immaculates.

Then there is refines, in my experience with mirages being practically free with NQ I used around 2 tienkang stones per peice getting my gear to +4, maybe that's just cause my luck sucks though.




Getting the gear is cheap, it's the refines and shards that are expensive.


Of course that covers the TT90 gear and the weapon but that's not all your gear. Want to be able to keep up with everyone else on raging tide? get a warsoul helm at least, because except for the few with the helm of holy punishment helms, everyone 90+ has one. Getting the helm will set you back a good 15mil if you're patient AND lucky, otherwise look to spend around 20mil.

go die im 100+ and dont even have a single event stuffs.

Hypnos - Raging Tide

then you're not a factor...nuff said b:surprised

jk, me neither, using TT90 gold helm (costly though), TT90 gold neck and OHT belt, not necessary event stuff but I understand what you mean Rawrgh. The refine and sharding is a bish, and most income come from TTs if not merchant.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

The refine and sharding is a bish, and most income come from TTs if not merchant.

That's pretty much what 2x has done, it's pretty much eliminated casual players from farming lower HH for coin. The only real way to earn coin in the game is by being high level and spamming 6 2-2 runs and pretty much skipping everything but dog and astral, and farm for dust and touch. 8x squads can do it, but it would take far too long to do enough of them to turn a decent profit, but a 10x party can spam a half dozen in a about 2 hours. Or, you can farm 3-3. Unless your party has excellent gear with at least one fist bm or archer with +10 or better weapon, that's going to take you quite a bit of time too.

Many of the people who don't like to merchant or completely despise them love the 2x drops, but they also complain they don't make enough coin in the game... yet they don't realize that having so many 2x events only made the high level and well geared absurdly richer.

The only real way left for someone to make significant money now is through merchanting.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

The only real way left for someone to make significant money now is through merchanting.

Exactly, I've started to merch stuff. Personally I hate merching.

I'm hoping this will help with my end game gear needs.

If not.....guess its time to throw in the towel and leave.b:sad

SilverCleric - Lost City

Are we always going to have Threads like this everytime another patch comes out?? b:sweat


Also I don't want another 2x everything, we already had one not to long ago and haveing another is just making the game easier than it is now... >.>

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

No thanks!

Cyrl - Raging Tide

I did my first TT run during 2x, and looking back on it I feel that it was a bad decision on my part. Necessary, but a bad one. The amount of drops we had gotten on my first run and all the runs after during 2x made me confident that I would easily be able to get all the mats I needed for my gear in no time.

And then drop rates went back to normal.

After running that first non-2x run, I felt disappointed at the distinct lack of drops and I could see the dollar signs racking up as I calculated how much I needed to spend to get my gears.

Moral of the story?

I feel that while being cost ineffective, and just plain depressing, 2x should be restricted to one day out of a month or something along those lines. Reason? 2x increases the TT drop rate, dropping the TT mat prices as well as making it easier for people to get their gears. Like someone mentioned before, TT basically marks the beginning of the real elite equips, and therefore should not be easy to get by any means.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

People like borsuc see TT mat prices fall and are glad that they can get the mats for their gear cheaper. Then they're running around in +1 TT90 gear with a +1 weapon.

Pepper - Lost City

HH sux? Go farm nirvana
Isnt it the reason they gave every one "free pass" to 100 b:question
Cant find pt for it? sux2bu, maybe try put some time to meet people and umm make
e-friends

P.S. The average refine on LS high lvl players gear and wep is beyond ridiculous b:embarrass

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

nirvana sux already b:chuckle and will more when prices go down.

well, maybe not for 5aps and clerics b:cute


if u dont believe, then look at 3-3 green mats prices phenomenon. if u would tell someone few months ago that 3-3 green mats will drop from 500k-2m to 100k he would lol at u.

market is just crazy here, no common sense - mats from 8 bosses with 6-10m HP are garbage now. Even while 2x TT 3-3 is not worth doing if u dont do it in small squads with 4-5aps (pref. duo, trio.. maybe 4) compared to nirvana.



and since nirvana is actually easier and fast, then price of uncanies will drop much - just need few more ppl doing it



but pwe dont need to worry about it. It is actually good for them.
'Overally' players will be happy cause getting basic gear will be 'cheaper'. Hardcore, op h-lvl players wont complain too much cause they will still be able to earn on others.

So, it will be easier to get basic gear parts but harder to get any 'luxury' items since players will have less coins in pockets. By luxury items i mean everything related with boutique like refines, fashion, mounts, 'event' gear etc.
And ofc thats not bad scenario for pwe =P

Hypnos - Raging Tide

3-3 green mats will drop from 500k-2m to 100k he would lol at u.

It's at 50k in RT b:cry

And while we at it, GBA used to sell for 2m~2m5 here, now is ~700k =/

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

People like borsuc see TT mat prices fall and are glad that they can get the mats for their gear cheaper. Then they're running around in +1 TT90 gear with a +1 weapon.

I fail to see the logic here, but even so, that's better than struggling for a TT90 gear at all isn't it?

Now onto the real scenario. What do you think happens when you sell those mats? Somebody buys them.

You got that, right? Not too complicated. If someone buys them, then it means that they think using coins they generated from somewhere else is more worth than getting the mats themselves. For example, if they ran their own TTs for mats, then they would've had the mats without using the coins they got from somewhere else (whatever that is for them). It's equivalent to selling the mats then buying them back at the same price, you see?

So what was your point? That everyone has 1st pick in TT? b:cute

I still think you're one of those spoiled noob barbs (noob in economics I mean, I personally don't use the common "noob" word in games if I'm not joking, I'm more serious than that to resort to childishness) that just had a good head start because server was fresh, and lots of demand for TT mats initially until it can stabilize.

You take it for granted for it to sell a lot, but you completely ignore the other side of the transaction: the players buying your stuff. When people buy something without being scammed, I can assure you that means they find it worth their money. That means they find it more worth than running TTs, and what does that tell you? Yep exactly you got it! (or at least I hope so)

Not everyone has the same money making techniques as you know. And DDs have the worst "salary" from TT anyway, if you weren't a barb I would've probably be in shock to be honest.

The only thing that you "sell" in TT runs is actually, the service and time and effort you put into it. That is why in 2x drops mats get cheaper: you don't do more effort but double mats for same effort. Furthermore a lot more people find it worthwhile to run it to get mats for themselves or sell. This means, less people want to buy yours because during 2x it's finally worth for them to run it. They don't find it worth otherwise, in fact, that's why they buy it.

So basically you are admitting that you NEED people who don't find it worth to run TTs, in order to buy yours. I mean, they give you your paycheck after all.



And I don't know what you mean by refining, because 2x drops means 2x mirage drops doesn't it? 2x mirage drops means either more mirages per TT for you, or cheaper mirage prices, if you prefer to buy them. So again, I don't see your point.

Unless you refer to dragon orbs... do you even know those are cash shop items? You should be more wary of gold prices there if you don't charge zen b:chuckle

And who the hell uses D. Orbs for low refines anyway. b:cute

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if u dont believe, then look at 3-3 green mats prices phenomenon. if u would tell someone few months ago that 3-3 green mats will drop from 500k-2m to 100k he would lol at u.

which 3-3 green mat was ever 500k? just cause someone try to sell it at that much doesn't mean thats the real price.

Asheera - Raging Tide

3-3 greens are worthless because there is an abundance of them since you need gold mats which drop a lot more rare. Nothing to do with people starting to farm 3-3 more

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

which 3-3 green mat was ever 500k? just cause someone try to sell it at that much doesn't mean thats the real price.

There is no "real" price, there is only the "average" price. The only "real" prices are the static NPC prices.

Apikiri - Lost City

2x is psychological mostly.

All PWE has to do is chop drops/xp/coin in half then start a permanent 2x event and bring it up to the level it was previously at.

Then everyone will start farming etc. because they think it's 2x. And they will feel like they are exploiting the game when really the game is exploiting them (which is how this game works anyway).

Hyper is not a bad thing to use because it doesn't increase drops, just xp and spirit. So you can run through the levels but you'll get to the high levels and be poor and have no resources, or skill. That's the trade off. Then you can either farm farm farm or cash shop your **** off to make income, in which case the game is exploiting you. lolz.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

I still think you're one of those spoiled noob barbs (noob in economics I mean, I personally don't use the common "noob" word in games if I'm not joking, I'm more serious than that to resort to childishness) that just had a good head start because server was fresh, and lots of demand for TT mats initially until it can stabilize.

I played on lost city for a year and a half and TT mats never took a huge drop there until the frequent x2 events started.

You take it for granted for it to sell a lot, but you completely ignore the other side of the transaction: the players buying your stuff. When people buy something without being scammed, I can assure you that means they find it worth their money. That means they find it more worth than running TTs, and what does that tell you? Yep exactly you got it! (or at least I hope so)

Way to type an entire paragraph and say nothing.

The only thing that you "sell" in TT runs is actually, the service and time and effort you put into it. That is why in 2x drops mats get cheaper: you don't do more effort but double mats for same effort. Furthermore a lot more people find it worthwhile to run it to get mats for themselves or sell. This means, less people want to buy yours because during 2x it's finally worth for them to run it. They don't find it worth otherwise, in fact, that's why they buy it.

Irrelevant, my point is that prices fall during x2 and then when the events end, THEY DON'T GO BACK UP

Not everyone has the same money making techniques as you know. And DDs have the worst "salary" from TT anyway, if you weren't a barb I would've probably be in shock to be honest.

I don't even hardly tank my TT runs anymore. I just buff the squad, DD a bit, and stand ready with roar + invoke incase fit hits the shan.

And I don't know what you mean by refining, because 2x drops means 2x mirage drops doesn't it? 2x mirage drops means either more mirages per TT for you, or cheaper mirage prices, if you prefer to buy them. So again, I don't see your point.

Get a weapon to +6 with just mirages and I'll totally agree with you.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I fail to see the logic here, but even so, that's better than struggling for a TT90 gear at all isn't it?

Now onto the real scenario. What do you think happens when you sell those mats? Somebody buys them.

You got that, right? Not too complicated. If someone buys them, then it means that they think using coins they generated from somewhere else is more worth than getting the mats themselves. For example, if they ran their own TTs for mats, then they would've had the mats without using the coins they got from somewhere else (whatever that is for them). It's equivalent to selling the mats then buying them back at the same price, you see?

So what was your point? That everyone has 1st pick in TT? b:cute

I still think you're one of those spoiled noob barbs (noob in economics I mean, I personally don't use the common "noob" word in games if I'm not joking, I'm more serious than that to resort to childishness) that just had a good head start because server was fresh, and lots of demand for TT mats initially until it can stabilize.

You take it for granted for it to sell a lot, but you completely ignore the other side of the transaction: the players buying your stuff. When people buy something without being scammed, I can assure you that means they find it worth their money. That means they find it more worth than running TTs, and what does that tell you? Yep exactly you got it! (or at least I hope so)

Not everyone has the same money making techniques as you know. And DDs have the worst "salary" from TT anyway, if you weren't a barb I would've probably be in shock to be honest.

The only thing that you "sell" in TT runs is actually, the service and time and effort you put into it. That is why in 2x drops mats get cheaper: you don't do more effort but double mats for same effort. Furthermore a lot more people find it worthwhile to run it to get mats for themselves or sell. This means, less people want to buy yours because during 2x it's finally worth for them to run it. They don't find it worth otherwise, in fact, that's why they buy it.

So basically you are admitting that you NEED people who don't find it worth to run TTs, in order to buy yours. I mean, they give you your paycheck after all.



And I don't know what you mean by refining, because 2x drops means 2x mirage drops doesn't it? 2x mirage drops means either more mirages per TT for you, or cheaper mirage prices, if you prefer to buy them. So again, I don't see your point.

Unless you refer to dragon orbs... do you even know those are cash shop items? You should be more wary of gold prices there if you don't charge zen b:chuckle

And who the hell uses D. Orbs for low refines anyway. b:cute

Usually, if someone wants to have TT90-99 gold mats, they usually buy those anyway. The money for that comes from either merchanting, TTing or cash shopping. Let's take the Ancient Evil's Souls as an example. If you try to farm those, you are far more likely to get enough money to buy those before you get those as drops. Or you would if the market wouldn't be so screwed up that green mats are so worthless compared to gold mats. I think that in 6 months only gold mats are worth something. People start to NPC other drops since there are way too many mats on the market.

You are saying that:

1) It's good to have 2x to get mats easier
2) Mirages are enough for refining

Those are merely opinions. For most people that isn't enough. For me it is, since I currently can't afford anything better.

And: "spoiled noob barb". b:chuckle