Relative max damage of the different classes

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're study on this matter is a waste of time because there are too many variables that you are not considering. "-interval does too much damage" is not a theory, it's a fact. You just don't want to accept this fact that a class with 5 aps using fists/claws with interval gear can deal a constant damage of 50-60k per second non crits.

Sheesh, you people are implacable. I started this topic because whenever I did theoretical calculations for damage showing certain builds (mainly -interval) did a lot more damage than others, some people would say, "But that's just theory. Real gameplay introduces lots of other variables which make the theory inapplicable." Then this event happens and we have a chance to see relative damage contribution in real gameplay. And now the primary complaint is that it's too real and introduces too many variables? You can't have it both ways.

I know -interval gives huge multipliers for damage. I've done the theoretical calculations. I noticed it way back in early 2009, half a year before packs were introduced. It's what led me to make my veno go heavy - I was curious if the melee damage could be increased to match or surpass spell damage. I've validated the theory on my character with solo kill timings in CoA using a variety of different attack methods.

But every time the topic comes up and I weigh in with the "based on theory, it's way overpowered" crowd, there's a vocal group of naysayers (usually interval fist users) claiming that real gameplay doesn't match the theory. That other classes get lots of other nice bonuses or skills which offset the increased DPS from -interval, and everything is ok and balanced.

Well, this event gives us a way to put their claims to the test.

- Some people uses unique builds such as archers, clerics, and venos using a HA build.
- The attack methods they use - as you've seen with venos using nix, hercs, and magic/melee weapons.

Which is why the topic is titled "relative max damage" and not "average damage". If one build or attack method is much better than another, it will rise to the top of the rankings for that class.

- Level of players, and their gear type.

The event looks at the top slice of the high end tail of the distribution curve for each class. Given the severe leveling curve post-100, it's fair to say each class has dozens of representatives at or near 100 with similar-class gear (TB classes excepted of course).

On the Sanctuary server, there are actually less than 20 sins and psy participating in the event at certain times, and over halve of then are under level 80. Using this event for your study of class damage is not fair for the new classes. In addition, most don't even have their level 11 skills yet.

Already said as much in my first post. Also pointed out in my first post that if a class has fewer representatives (wizards maybe), the sampled tail of their distribution curve may be bigger than another class', thus skewing their top-7 average down. I had thought the final rankings told you how many people of each class participated, so I could account for this. But apparently it doesn't.

- Lag: even an end game player with gears that may seem to give them a huge damage advantage might not do well in this competition because of lag.

Those suffering more from lag within a class will tend to score lower, and thus automatically be removed from the data set. With the number of players participating in this event (300+ the few times I've done it), I think it's a safe assumption that each class will have at least a few if not dozens of high-level well-geared representatives not suffering from oppressive lag.

- Time spent killing the final Nien Beast: The more time you spend killing the final boss, the more contribution points you get. For a fist/claw bm or archer with 5 aps, even 30 secs can mean a great deal of points. It's logic that the more high level players killing the boss, the less time another has killing it, and will waste time teleporting to the next unkilled nien beast.

No, logic says that the more high level players are killing the boss, the less time everyone has killing it, including the high level players. The only thing quicker kill times do is give advantage to those who get there first.

Given that the event happens in areas where mounts are usable, it's difficult to argue that the first arrivers are biased towards or against any class.

Given that the nienbeasts take several minutes to kill while first arrivers have maybe 15-30 sec of extra damage, it's difficult to argue that their advantage reaches a magnitude approaching the disparity we're seeing in contribution scores.

- The data you are basing your study on consists of the top 20 scores of each class. It is not enough for anyone to reach a solid conclusion as to which class does the most damage. Not everyone (best of each class in terms of equipments they have) participates in this event. Some do it on a normal basis and have more experience in scoring more points.

Which is why I (1) averaged the scores for the top 7, (2) fully intend to collect more data.

Look, bottom line is that there are some clear trends emerging from the data. If this were so useless as some are claiming, there would be no trends. It would be indistinguishable from random. The fact that there are trends means the data is conveying useful information.