Relative max damage of the different classes

Solandri - Heavens Tear

The popularity of the Nienbeast event gives us a unique opportunity to gauge the relative maximum damage over time of the different classes towards endgame. Each individual is awarded contribution in proportion to their damage. The score sheet handily breaks it down by class too.

It's not perfect:

• There's a random value added to the final score. But that should even out with a larger sample. Since on average it's the same for everyone, it helps lower scoring classes proportionately more, meaning any imbalance revealed by the rankings is actually worse than the numbers indicate.
• IIRC contribution for a group is shared among squad members. I'm not sure exactly how. This has the effect of dragging down high contributing classes while raising up low contributing classes. So again, any imbalance revealed by the rankings is actually worse than what the numbers indicate.
• You can gain contribution by doing timed and fedex quests. The amounts of these rewards are relatively small (a few hundred points max), so it should be safe to ignore them. The top contributors score thousands or tens of thousands of points, so they have to be getting most of their points from damage.

So here are the contribution scores for the top 7 ranked members of each class on HT during the 9pm event on the 23rd:

Blademaster	20171	18432	17682	15809	11468	9173	9117
Wizard		4665	4225	4089	3986	3959	3653	3460
Cleric		9693	9677	8321	8100	5158	4068	4015
Archer		9830	9726	9501	8647	8618	6605	5344
Barbarian	8614	4510	4367	3803	3799	3739	3727
Venomancer	7813	7387	5380	5362	4979	4583	4164
Assassin	5994	5648	5305	4547	4021	4003	3715
Psychic		4271	4129	3170	3040	2591	2475	2322

Summary
Average - Normalized - Class
14550 - 100.0% - Blademaster
8324 - 57.2% - Archer
7005 - 48.1% - Cleric
5667 - 38.9% - Venomancer
4748 - 32.6% - Assassin
4651 - 32.0% - Barbarian
4005 - 27.5%- Wizard
3143 - 21.6% - Psychic

If there were any question that the interval system and fist weapons are seriously fubar and overpowered, I think settles it. In a max-damage endgame build, BMs are doing roughly 2x-3x as much DPS as any of the other classes. Possibly even more since there's no way to tell how much the first two factors are mitigating their contribution scores. The numbers were pretty similar for the 4pm nienbeast event as well. Feel free to check them on your server.

Assassins and psychics probably scored so low because they're relatively new and there are few of them which are at high level. The low ranking for wizards surprised me. But they're pretty rare too, and their forte is really spike damage. I forgot to record the number of each class which participated this time around. I'll be sure to get that next time.

Rillien - Heavens Tear

Interesting analysis. I've been looking at the class rankings as well, and BMs are far and away the class with the most points. I had expected archers, venos, and wizards to top the list, especially as so many people seem to complain about phoenix KSing at these types of events.

One thing that might have hurt wizards [besides their rareness] is the slow cast time of spells. On the minion stages, there was a great necessity for speed. And if a wizards is in the middle of channelling a skill and a mob dies, he or she must start channelling all over again on new mob without gaining any contribution. I would imagine this to affect the boss fights as well: for every large spike a wizard dealt, a high DPS fist BM would be able to get in far more hits in the same time interval.

As a moderate geared cleric with low-ish damage [vit build, no pack weapon] according to present 90+ expectations, I found myself being able to fire off around one spell on the minion mobs before they were killed, and get in decent [but not great] damage on the captains and nien beasts.

I'd say the lower rankings of venos and wizards under clerics/BMs interests me the most.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

Barbarian 8614 4510 4367 3803 3799 3739 3727

Interesting how the barb in the first place has almost twice the score of the 2nd place barb. Is that barb a fist/claw user? Can you find out?

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Our top bm's score has your's beat by 9k @_@

Knownase - Heavens Tear

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

Barbarian 8614 4510 4367 3803 3799 3739 3727

Interesting how the barb in the first place has almost twice the score of the 2nd place barb. Is that barb a fist/claw user? Can you find out?

Yes, that individual does use lunar claws.


Btw, third highest score was mine I believe for Barbs. lol

Yarly - Harshlands

seems like the sins always win on our server

volst

Yarly - Harshlands wrote: »

seems like the sins always win on our server

Of course, they can just stealth if someone is going after them + avoid some of those nasty aoe that BMs can't.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

• IIRC contribution for a group is shared among squad members. I'm not sure exactly how. This has the effect of dragging down high contributing classes while raising up low contributing classes. So again, any imbalance revealed by the rankings is actually worse than what the numbers indicate.

I would disagree... if anything the imbalance is not as bad as most people actually squad for the event except for the fist/claw users. Every time I have placed from #2-7 overall, I was without a party. The one time I did do this in squad, I placed #22.

• You can gain contribution by doing timed and fedex quests. The amounts of these rewards are relatively small (a few hundred points max), so it should be safe to ignore them. The top contributors score thousands or tens of thousands of points, so they have to be getting most of their points from damage.

To be a top scorer, you need to actually be prepared for the event. You need at least 2 teleport stones. Getting to the first mobs initially and kill them as quickly as possible, before the first part of the quest is up, you need to move to the 2nd boss. Right before it dies you need to teleport stone to the Nein Beast and DD it till it dies. Then you need to teleport to one of the remaining Nein Beasts and kill it. That's pretty much the only way for someone to be top 5 in their class.

If there were any question that the interval system and fist weapons are seriously fubar and overpowered, I think settles it. In a max-damage endgame build, BMs are doing roughly 2x-3x as much DPS as any of the other classes. Possibly even more since there's no way to tell how much the first two factors are mitigating their contribution scores. The numbers were pretty similar for the 4pm nienbeast event as well. Feel free to check them on your server.

Then again, this is an event based mostly on stationary melee-mobs and that will skew the results considerably. If they were all ranged or magic mobs, the results would most likely look quite a bit different.

FWIW, barbs on your server are scoring low, as well. On LC there are barbs that are placing much higher, with at least 3-4 of them in the top overall 20, not all of them using fists/claws. A few of them are using Nirvana axes and perditioning the bosses for 200k+.

Batman - Harshlands

on my server is wizards and bms

tweakz

One of the problems with the point system is that it doesn't count debuffs for points.They actually can count against you if you waste DD time to do them while helping everyone else. Other classes have things like Elemental Seal / Howl, Amplify Damage, Sharp Tooth / Soul Degeneration, etc that take time to cast but yield no points on their own. I discovered in Public Quest that if my strongest competition was Phys DDs, to use Howl (mdef debuff) to tip the balance while avoiding Ironwood. Now there is a genie skill that should gain interest specifically for this event and others:

Disrupts the target's elemental resistances.
Increases the target's physical defense by ?% of gear value
and reduces the target's elemental resistances by ?% of gear value.
Also reduces the target's movement speed by 30%.
Lasts for 8 secs.

Dexterity: Every 5 Genie Dexterity points increases 1% more Physical Defense.
Dexterity: Every 5 Genie Dexterity points reduces 1% more Elemental Resistance.

-Watch the scales change if people start using that. -lol

I have also acquired a Genie with a skill (Tangling Mire) that when combined with Ironwood (Sage -45%pdef debuff) would yield a reliable Armor Break for 10 seconds. BM's have a similar skill that allows 50% pdef debuff making their ability to to do this a tad easier.

TheUnjudged - Heavens Tear

Estuary had top Psychic.... Moderater_ wasn't too far behind either

Telarith - Sanctuary

Yeah, too many variables not accounted for to be a proof of anything too much. And when you have clerics scoring higher than wizzies, that should be an obvious tip-off the data isn't very good. While their DPS skills are much the same, wizzies have a slight advantage with a shorter cast time on at least one. Add in their Undine, which would stack with the cleric's or BM's mag def debuff, and wiz should easily be scoring higher.

Auto-attackers have better chances to take advantage when axe BMs are there as well. Using skills that aren't co-ordinated with HF can lead to few good hits, while auto-attack is almost guaranteed to constantly hit during it, outside of spark channeling.

Are the barbs using Devour? If so, while helping themself, they are helping others even more. Ditto with Ironwood proc from demon venos.

Damage spread. Assuming certain things, such as build types of characters there being roughly normal expected, you can see whether they had normal, low, or cash shopping characters there. When the top cleric is over twice as much damage as top wizzie, you know the wizzie data is useless for any max damage comparison. There simply wasn't any end game, or even close to end game, wizzie there. Or they were in group, or being lazy and just channeling TDB.

Making sure of top player of each class. Unless gear is checked, no way of knowing whether even a high scorer has gear comparative to another there. All the way that my cleric leveled, I stole aggro from archers my level all the time if I didn't hold back; and this is with them auto-attacking for max DPS. So cleric could just be decently geared, with the lower numbers being from clerics who spent more time healing.

Preparation. Read about having certain items to speed things up, possibly the high scorers follow threads from forums, keep better informed, and know ahead of time to have that to speed things up. Everyone else kinda flutters around and loses valuable time.

Just a couple things that popped into mind as I wrote this. Obviously many, many more that could be done, if this sample takes no time to think of.

Sakuba - Harshlands

Sins on HL do way more then on that server then i guess...
i know my hubby always has over 10-15k contri..

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I would disagree... if anything the imbalance is not as bad as most people actually squad for the event except for the fist/claw users. Every time I have placed from #2-7 overall, I was without a party. The one time I did do this in squad, I placed #22.

That is why the imbalance is worse than these numbers show. By grouping, you knocked your BM's ranking down from top 7 to #22. In the process, you elevated your group members' rankings. So having a subset of the participants grouping tends to lower the top scoring classes and raise the low scoring classes. For example:

Separate:
A1 = 40, A2 = 50, A3 = 60. Average of A = 50
B1 = 18, B2 = 10, B3 = 6. Average of B = 10
B's average is 20% of A's.

Some grouped:
(A1 + B1 = 48, 24 each)
(A2 + B2 = 60, 30 each)
A3 = 60
B3 = 6
Average of A = 38
Average of B = 20
B's average is 53% of A's.

So grouping tends to even out the imbalance in the scores. If most people squad as you say, then the imbalance is much, much worse as many of the non-BM top 7 finishers only scored as highly as they did because they were grouped with BMs.

To be a top scorer, you need to actually be prepared for the event. You need at least 2 teleport stones. Getting to the first mobs initially and kill them as quickly as possible, before the first part of the quest is up, you need to move to the 2nd boss. Right before it dies you need to teleport stone to the Nein Beast and DD it till it dies. Then you need to teleport to one of the remaining Nein Beasts and kill it. That's pretty much the only way for someone to be top 5 in their class.

All of which can be done by anyone, not just BMs.

Then again, this is an event based mostly on stationary melee-mobs and that will skew the results considerably. If they were all ranged or magic mobs, the results would most likely look quite a bit different.

Doesn't the event favor ranged classes? During the initial waves, the ranged classes can click and attack. Melee classes have to physically run to the mobs, which in many cases die before they ever get there. That BMs are managing to score so high despite this bias against melee means fist weapons are even more overpowered than the numbers suggest.

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, too many variables not accounted for to be a proof of anything too much.

I disagree. When none of the other classes are able to even come close to the top 5 BMs, you don't have to account for variables. There is a serious imbalance.

Making sure of top player of each class. Unless gear is checked, no way of knowing whether even a high scorer has gear comparative to another there.

The event is server-wide and very popular. As HT is among the oldest servers, it's safe to say there isn't a level nor gear quality disparity between the highest scorers of the different classes.

All the way that my cleric leveled, I stole aggro from archers my level all the time if I didn't hold back; and this is with them auto-attacking for max DPS. So cleric could just be decently geared, with the lower numbers being from clerics who spent more time healing.

The scores listed are the top 7 for each class, and the values indicate a significant amount of if not all-out DDing. The wizard and tideborne numbers are suspect, but I'm pretty sure that's because of low participation. Something I said I'd check for in future events.

Preparation. Read about having certain items to speed things up, possibly the high scorers follow threads from forums, keep better informed, and know ahead of time to have that to speed things up. Everyone else kinda flutters around and loses valuable time.

So you're advocating the theory that BM players are smarter than all other players, and that they exclusively are preparing for this event? I suspect the archers might have something to say about that.

Telarith - Sanctuary

No, advocating that the BMs who actually do the research on our class forum and go all out in spending so much to get the gear required, and also refine, it are more likely to find ways to get around their melee range deficiency to make the most of all their time and effort. The ones scoring so high over all the others, even their own BMs, who apparently are also being out-classes by other fisters, are the ones who have likely put in the time and research.

As for the rest, it's pretty easy. If it is so well-attended, why isn't there a large amount of real high BMs? There are plenty of high end fist BMs that there shouldn't even be a low point on the 7th slot if they are so OP, yet there is. Archers over here use claws as well, and since most of the damage is demon spark they wouldn't be that far behind, if it had the end gamers there. And yet, they did.

Again, just pointing out based off the data you hail as incontrovertible proof that disproves itself based off of the current metagame. Archers would not be so lower, because they would be Deiciders like on our server. Less low numbers on BM contribution, as there are a lot of fisters with 4+ APS. Barb was apparently a fister, but didn't score very close to the BM. This is despite them being able to have the same level of damage as a BM once demon spark is taken into consideration.

So why is there such a disparity, if there is such glaring inconsistencies? How can you say that since the server is old, there can't be any inconsistencies, when wizzies did less than half that of a cleric?

What about the fact that it is double drops, and people on the forum have been saying what a useless event it is? Or how about taking more than one sample and actually doing it scientifically? You came in with a theory, grabbed the data to support it, then made the hypothesis is what this seems like more than anything.

And yes, we know the archers are arrogant. Apparently the BMs solving their math and skill use half a year or so before archers so we don't need to debate it anymore makes people forget who actually did the work behind melee damage comparisons, and speeds achievable.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

in a game where range means everything the most powerfull thing my class has is...

double click and hit the guy 2 meters away

...

...

...

*facepalm* its already been limited simply by the fact we litteraly have to get on top of anyone to kill em

and srsly? roll a bm and try to kill somone with skill spam or non int auto attack

hint: unless they're a dumbass or you get a hella lucky string of zerks and crits nothing...happens

your math indicates that a endgame mele/tank class is good at killing things solo at endgame

and said class sucks to play for 89 levels

math does solve the game but your leaving out all factors but those that support your lil theory that gives skewed results (damit just read tels thread bloody forum ninja)

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That is why the imbalance is worse than these numbers show. By grouping, you knocked your BM's ranking down from top 7 to #22. In the process, you elevated your group members' rankings. So having a subset of the participants grouping tends to lower the top scoring classes and raise the low scoring classes.

You're working on the pretense that many of the squads had interval BMs to raise the score of other members in squad when that's clearly not substantiated by any fact, just your assumptions. Lets say the primary DD in any given party was a mage or archer... their rankings would be brought down by points distribution.

You're basing your statement from making an observation of numbers without any real contro. I don't disagree that fist/claw BMs have the highest DPS so far, but even as your observations seem to state one thing, others on different servers have seen a bit more variety. All that information that you posted only proves that fist/claw BMs do have higher DPS in this particular setting and trying to justify unknown modifiers to total contribution earned pretty much makes one of your conclusions to be speculative opinion, not of proven fact.

From what I had seen, most of the high level participants in my faction tended to squad for the event, but many of the fist/claw BMs did not. If this is true, then the results would be skewed no matter how you wish to interpret the results and without really knowing squad compositions you can't justify the assumption that I disagree with.

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Again, just pointing out based off the data you hail as incontrovertible proof that disproves itself based off of the current metagame. Archers would not be so lower, because they would be Deiciders like on our server. Less low numbers on BM contribution, as there are a lot of fisters with 4+ APS. Barb was apparently a fister, but didn't score very close to the BM. This is despite them being able to have the same level of damage as a BM once demon spark is taken into consideration.

So why is there such a disparity, if there is such glaring inconsistencies? How can you say that since the server is old, there can't be any inconsistencies, when wizzies did less than half that of a cleric?

Also add to the fact that there are a few barbs that have placed within top 20 overall, and they were not fist/claw users as well but still managed to hit 9000+ contribution points. According to 'the results', they shouldn't even be anywhere near any of the true DD classes, but managed to pull ahead of many that were.

Without knowing squad composition of the top scorers in each class, making assumptions is pointless.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Does HT not have any clawchers? My server is dominated by the clawchers usually holding 4 or 5 of the top 6 spots. I can think of 8 that can achieve more than 12k contrib. My record so far is 22k b:victory

Susylu - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Does HT not have any clawchers? My server is dominated by the clawchers usually holding 4 or 5 of the top 6 spots. I can think of 8 that can achieve more than 12k contrib. My record so far is 22k b:victory

we do... just that tend to squad which does inevitably lower the overall final contribution points

Mosz - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Does HT not have any clawchers? My server is dominated by the clawchers usually holding 4 or 5 of the top 6 spots. I can think of 8 that can achieve more than 12k contrib. My record so far is 22k b:victory

Yah ive gotten first place the other night, and often top couple of total. Drop significantly if i squad
and Fist>Claw b:victory

few good fist/claw archer on HT, one of best plays his sin more, another always squads up with his wife
most of the top BMs solo
and login to HT more ast or ill delete you off FL :P

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

No, advocating that the BMs who actually do the research on our class forum and go all out in spending so much to get the gear required, and also refine, it are more likely to find ways to get around their melee range deficiency to make the most of all their time and effort. The ones scoring so high over all the others, even their own BMs, who apparently are also being out-classes by other fisters, are the ones who have likely put in the time and research.

Sigh. So yes, you're basically saying BM players are the only ones smart enough to figure out the best way to take advantage of the event.

As for the rest, it's pretty easy. If it is so well-attended, why isn't there a large amount of real high BMs? There are plenty of high end fist BMs that there shouldn't even be a low point on the 7th slot if they are so OP, yet there is.

As your associate said, most of them group. Since the prizes are awarded based on ranking per class, it makes sense to group the highest damage class with other classes, and nab 3-5 of the top prizes instead of just 1.

What about the fact that it is double drops, and people on the forum have been saying what a useless event it is? Or how about taking more than one sample and actually doing it scientifically? You came in with a theory, grabbed the data to support it, then made the hypothesis is what this seems like more than anything.

No, I noticed this was a way to measure relative DPS data and posted it. There have been endless debates about which classes do more damage, exactly how much damage the lesser DD classes like barbs and venos do, etc. Here is an opportunity to get some server-wide measurements without having to do things like record video and write down individual damage numbers. If you re-read my first post, you'll see I fully intend to collect more data. I just wanted to post it here so other people can see what I'm doing and try it out on their servers (since I cannot login to multiple servers simultaneously while the event is going on).

I did the editorializing towards the end because the magnitude of the disparity between BM contribution absolutely floored me. (FWIW, the high cleric scores didn't surprise me, based on how frequently I've seen them steal aggro when we have 2+ clerics and my gameplay with a mid-level cleric. If it weren't for venos soling and -interval gear yielding huge DPS, everyone would be complaining about clerics being overpowered with great DD and being able to heal themselves.)

And yes, we know the archers are arrogant. Apparently the BMs solving their math and skill use half a year or so before archers so we don't need to debate it anymore makes people forget who actually did the work behind melee damage comparisons, and speeds achievable.

Why do you think I'm talking about the math for interval gear? For your claim to hold, you have to defend the theory that somehow BMs are the only ones who research things and prepare for the event to maximize their contribution, and thus are scoring higher than the players of all the other classes. I'm pointing out that lots of players from other classes research, analyze, and prepare too, particularly archers.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

You're working on the pretense that many of the squads had interval BMs to raise the score of other members in squad when that's clearly not substantiated by any fact, just your assumptions. Lets say the primary DD in any given party was a mage or archer... their rankings would be brought down by points distribution.

No, the grouping thing is a suggestion you made. I merely pointed out that grouping reduces the spread of contribution results, thus making any differences smaller than if nobody grouped.

You're basing your statement from making an observation of numbers without any real contro. I don't disagree that fist/claw BMs have the highest DPS so far, but even as your observations seem to state one thing, others on different servers have seen a bit more variety. All that information that you posted only proves that fist/claw BMs do have higher DPS in this particular setting

Agreed, it is specific to this setting.

and trying to justify unknown modifiers to total contribution earned pretty much makes one of your conclusions to be speculative opinion, not of proven fact.

No, I'm not trying to justify unknown modifiers. You and Telarith need to get off the notion that I'm trying to lead some lynch mob against BMs. I like BMs. I think they're a lot of fun to play, and I think the game badly needs a secondary tank who can sorta fill the role of a missing barb, and a secondary DDer who can sorta fill the role of a missing archer/wiz. I think BMs were underpowered for that role prior to the packs, and needed to be improved. OTOH I think the interval system is horribly broken, and the current interval weapon and equipment sets are tremendously unbalanced. BMs just happen to be best positioned to take advantage of it.

What I'm trying to do is come up with a list of factors which add uncertainty to the data. Then I'm trying to analyze those factors to see if that uncertainty is omnidirectional, or if they create certain trends in the data. At least two of the factors create trends which tend to mitigate a disparity in DPS between the classes. That's fact.

From what I had seen, most of the high level participants in my faction tended to squad for the event, but many of the fist/claw BMs did not. If this is true, then the results would be skewed no matter how you wish to interpret the results and without really knowing squad compositions you can't justify the assumption that I disagree with.

Without knowing squad composition of the top scorers in each class, making assumptions is pointless.

As I've pointed out twice now, the effect of grouping ranges from no effect, to one of mitigating the disparity between high and low scoring classes. In no realistic case can it result in the high scorer scoring even higher relative to all the others. The only way it can do that is if all the high scorers of a class group with a bunch of low level characters and purposely gimp their own final score while failing to raise the squad members' score high enough to garner any additional prizes. That defeats the purpose of participating in the event, so I highly doubt it's a factor.

Longknife - Harshlands

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Blademaster	20171	18432	17682	15809	11468	9173	9117
Wizard		4665	4225	4089	3986	3959	3653	3460
Cleric		9693	9677	8321	8100	5158	4068	4015
Archer		9830	9726	9501	8647	8618	6605	5344
Barbarian	8614	4510	4367	3803	3799	3739	3727
Venomancer	7813	7387	5380	5362	4979	4583	4164
Assassin	5994	5648	5305	4547	4021	4003	3715
Psychic		4271	4129	3170	3040	2591	2475	2322

Summary
Average - Normalized - Class
14550 - 100.0% - Blademaster
8324 - 57.2% - Archer
7005 - 48.1% - Cleric
5667 - 38.9% - Venomancer
4748 - 32.6% - Assassin
4651 - 32.0% - Barbarian
4005 - 27.5%- Wizard
3143 - 21.6% - Psychic

You have Wizards and Psychics below Barbarians. That should tell you something is wrong.

ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear

Using the same logic I would assume you think pets not getting Dmg reduction on [?] bosses is fubar and OPed and should be nurfed ?

How do I reach that conclusion ? Well Veno's used to dominate the TB PQ when people first bothered to do it.

RedsRose - Lost City

Funny...and all these have been in a full squad -->

Placed 2-5 each time:

No difference whether I rb the entire time or dd. (See below)


People need to keep in mind that MUCH of the time these rankings are based on random points that can bump you to the top or bump you to the bottom.


BTW --> You cannot adequately calculate this because you have to take into consideration of squading size (none to full),randomization of contribution points and the random points given at each point. Narrow down all of the variables and then we can talk

Dralighte - Harshlands

Yarly - Harshlands wrote: »

seems like the sins always win on our server

No, Nurfed (A wizard for ppl who dont know) won yesterday at 9PM b:chuckle

RedsRose - Lost City

You compete against your own class for the prizes....ijs b:surrender

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Here are the rankings for Sanctuary on 5/24/10 - 4:00PM


http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4301/wizw.png
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/3997/veno.png
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/9243/siniv.png
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/695/psyk.png
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8881/clericg.png
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2119/32231268.png
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4349/barby.png
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3738/arch.png

Archers hold the top 6 spots

RedsRose - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Here are the rankings for Sanctuary on 5/24/10 - 4:00PM

Ouchy on your random points >.>

Batman - Harshlands

Whats interesting is that all BM's on top all have fist/claw and -interval (i know their gear very well) but funny thing is that some sins dont even come close to that kind of gear and already scoring 12k+ or even closer to BM's (14-15k+). I guess a sin with similar gear will out DD a bm any day. Any server here have sins with all interval gear/daggers and not out DD a bm?

Telarith - Sanctuary

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wild Assertions remove for space saving.

In the data you posted, the BMs at the event likely knew more, due to out-scoring the other classes so handily. You say everyone was at the event, and that they all had high end gear. On our server, there would not be that large a disparity. So either HT has some real clueless people in general, or the BMs pulled away because the other classes who did have the knowledge of what to do, weren't there. It's really simple, but given how you like to editorialize with little data, I can see how it keeps confusing you.

So once again, for the special, in general the BMs don't know more automatically. But at that particular event, apparently they did. Even if it was just knowing not to squad. General, no. Specific event at that exact space in time, yes.

EDIT: In the end your conclusion was terrible, due to assuming everyone had the exact endgame refinement and class specific weaponry with no barbarians or archers using claws as well. Read back through and there is a slight mocking in the posts by using your incorrect data/conclusions as fact, and showing how it can't be. Here's an idea, why not just go to a CoA event, and watch how long it takes relatively for one class to kill a mob vs. another class. You can even check refinement and get a much better idea since it would be based off of just damage alone, no other factors. You'll see that archers can solo a CoA ring during non-double drops just the same as a BM or barb can.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

You compete against your own class for the prizes....ijs b:surrender

Yea but in my server you compete with whoever they are married to too. ijs...