who said you need cleric?

Alliptica - Raging Tide wrote: »

yeah lol the cleric left after he died b:chuckle

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

fb 51 : wywern - amp damage
fb 59 : all doable without cleric, (careful on drake/glut's stacking fire dot)
fb 69 : pole - massive def debuff, nob - amp damage
fb 79 : doable without cleric

see? clerics are not that important after all

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My only question is... how did the cleric die?

Come on, two venos and an assassin and a cleric still dies? Either he healed far too early and you just let him die, or you DDs failed in your own minor role of taking aggro off a monster the cleric may accidentally get aggro from.

Flickerfae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hope you didn't have to do Wyvern with only a wizzie, though. b:chuckle

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary wrote: »

Although I know this is not realistic, I proved I could solo heal pole halfway through yesterday xDD

Cleric got too close, died from aoe, ragequit.
I healed barb rest of the way, and pole used debuff once, which I nullified with my 10% proc purify with elemental shell. Was epic b:victory.

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My apologies then, I mistook your post for sarcasm where there was none.

I will say in relation to this post however, that going all out when a Herc tanks is never a smart idea. It seems to be the newer generation who can't comprehend that a Herc does not, can not and will not spam Bash like a barb can spam Flesh Ream, and better yet they don't seem to realise that they have to stop attacking if they steal from any pet, otherwise the pet will not get aggro back.
These nubs are getting into the level ranges of BH69/79 sadly, so right now I'd have to agree that a Herc tank in 79 is a bad idea. Not because it can't, but because there are a lot of stupid people who really can't comprehend how aggro works.

In a squad of good 90+ people, 79 should run smoothly no matter who the tank.

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You miss my point entirely.

Now I haven't played my barb in a long time, but I'm pretty sure a level 10 FR has a shorter cooldown than a pet's Bash does [as Bash never has a cooldown decrease if I remember correctly, only a damage increase] meaning that, as a general rule of thumb, Flesh Ream is more spammable then Bash.
You also need to factor in that a pet will automatically use Bash if you have that as it's default skill. Meaning if somebody steals from any pet - Herc or not - by going all out, there may still be a few seconds before the pet can use Bash again, even if it catches the mob. A barb, provided he has the chi, has probably already got FR at the ready.

The few seconds difference between a barb being able to use FR immediately upon a steal or as close to immediately as possible in contrast to a pet may not seem like very much, but it makes a huge difference.

Skill
Flesh Ream Level 10
Available in tiger form
Range Melee
Mana 43.2
Channel 0.2 seconds
Cast 1.0 seconds
Cooldown 3.0 seconds
Weapon Axe, Poleaxe, Hammer or Polehammer, Unarmed

Requisite Cultivation Spiritual Adept
Rip the enemy's flesh drawing their aggression onto you,
inflicting base physical damage and causing bleeding,
inflicting 1900.1 damage over 15 seconds.
100 percent accurate.

Requires 20 Chi

Bashing Level 5
Pet level 80
SP 25.000
Cooldown

8 seconds
A single violent attack against enemy, causing 200% damage in basic attack.

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Most barbs have enough chi to use FR upon a steal. According to your own descriptions there, there is a five second difference in cooldowns.

Let's say you have an archer going all out against a physical mob a barbarian is tanking.

In the case of the barbarian, on the assumption that the barbarian has chi because they typically do:

The archer goes all out and steals. The mob is a physical, so the mob has to run up to the archer before it can hit it. The barb in tiger form has a running speed faster than the mob, so there is already a chance it will catch the mob before it even reaches the archer and hit it with FR, grabbing aggro back.

With a pet:

The archer goes all out and steals. The mob is physical so it has to run to the archer before it can hit it. The pet doesn't run as fast as the barbarian does. The archer's probably going to get slapped before the pet can reach the mob. If the pet had also just used bash, there is a five second gap between the pet being able to take aggro back in contrast to the barbarian.

The point still stands: a barb is a more reliable source of threat when it comes to taking aggro back. He can spam flesh ream more often than a pet can spam bash and is more likely to take aggro back from a theft in a shorter amount of time.

truekossy wrote: »

On top of what Airyl said, there's also the fact that Barbs can use their genies to assit them with skills like Alpha male and, if the monster is somehow able to outrun the barb, Holy Path.


As for your comment about unwined 69/79 not being do-able without a cleric, my veno who's solo'd her unwined BH79/69s would like a word with you. Even in a squad situation, the regular monsters are easy enough for the various classes to handle on their own if they do take aggro, and all that my squad has to do against the bosses is hold back on their damage output so they don't take aggro. As long as the squad is decent, a herc can do fine in 79. (For 69, If a herc is tanking then I'd want a group that can either alternate lightning chaser to stop Pole from debuffing, or a class capable of canceling spells with certain skills).